Lawsuit says Saints covered up stolen Vicodin

Lawsuit says Saints covered up stolen Vicodin

news.yahoo.com...

AP -- New Orleans
Less than three months after their thrilling victory in the Super Bowl,
the New Orleans Saints have been accused by their former security
director of trying to cover up the theft of prescription pain pills from
the club's drug locker.

One of those involved was head coach Sean Payton, two people familiar
with the case told The Associated Press on condition of anonymity
because of the sensitive nature of the suit. Payton and the Saints
denied the allegations, and Payton was not named in court papers.

The lawsuit, filed Friday by Geoffrey Santini, a former FBI agent who
resigned from the club in August 2009, alleged one senior staff member
stole Vicodin pills while another was given an amount large enough
to constitute abuse.

I shouted with joy as my fav team the Saints
won back earlier this year.

well who could not help but cheer after the Saints
won their 1st Superbowl ever. And now it's tarnished
by scandal.

Reminds me of not too long ago when Mark McGuire took
away the Homerun record away from Babe Ruth and then
got busted for steroids.

Is there are pattern going on here?

Does it require massive amounts of steroids
or pain killers these days to be competitive
in pro sports?

[edit on 2-5-2010 by boondock-saint]

reply to post by boondock-saint


Pharmaceutical opiate abuse is a major problem with patients who started the medication because they needed it and subsequently got addicted to it. Big pharma obviously wants it this way.

Even if this pans out to be true I wouldn't see it as tarnishing to your Saints' accomplishment ... if anything, an opiate would be considered a performance degrading drug.

Not saying it's right, just saying it's not the end of the world.

Who Dat! from a Jets fan.

[edit on 2 May 2010 by schrodingers dog]

Originally posted by schrodingers dog
... if anything, an opiate would be considered a performance degrading drug.

well if it keeps players off the DL cuz they
dont feel pain, then it is a team enhancing
drug

and a big WHO DAT
back atcha

and just as a footnote

I wonder just how much of big pharma's
opium used in prescription drugs comes
from Afgh's Poppy fields purchased at next
to nothing prices???? just a thought.



[edit on 2-5-2010 by boondock-saint]

Being a Steelers fan I am familiar with NFL scandals. This story sounds to me like someone got fired from his job and decided to throw out false accusations. The Saints earned their victory.

Originally posted by boondock-saint
and just as a footnote

I wonder just how much of big pharma's
opium used in prescription drugs comes
from Afgh's Poppy fields purchased at next
to nothing prices???? just a thought.

[edit on 2-5-2010 by boondock-saint]

Okay. Usually I'd be the LAST to correct such a statement, but vicodin (AKA hydrocodone) is a constituent of thebaine and codeine. Yes, both opiates, but just because 'big pharma' (really an inaccurate term because there are many corporations that are included in such an umbrella term) gets their opium for super cheap... yeah, lookin' at you Afghanistan, doesn't mean that they don't have to pay their chemists and farmers good money to produce the drugs. To be honest, living here, in Canada, most drugs come with (a lot of) insurance plans and you have to pay minimum dollar for opiates. We got that right? No need to hate on pharmaceutical chemists and psycho-active plant cultivators. That's where the business is... and just ask 'big pharma', business is good.

Sorry. I just really don't like it when people bash non-existent entities which actually do tonnes of GOOD for our world. Maybe next time you have a back injury or get your wisdom teeth removed, you can go ahead and ignore all those opiates, cause hey, you don't wanna be in on a conspiracy do you? It's not 'big pharma's fault that people just LOVE those opiates. Opiates have been in use since ancient times. Opiates have STRONG spiritual properties too. But... people are weak. Weakness, although ought not to be, is often a good way to make a quick profit. Addiction is a mental thing, and I think THAT'S where the real conspiracy lies with 'big pharma'. THEY want you to believe that opiates are super-addictive. The more you believe, the more profit they make. You really think it's a coincidence that oxycodone and other pharmaceutical opiates are on the street, selling for AT LEAST 5 times the normal price?
And these drugs lead, like a gateway, into the world of heroin, morphine etc. And THAT my friend, is where the true profit lies.

I mean, damn, at 80 bucks a half a gram... that's like, a lot more than the price of gold per weight, innit?

To say Vicodin isn't performance enhancing is not really correct. If they have a sprain or a pulled/torn muscle or a myriad of other injuries that can affect their performance during a game, they can take this stuff before a game so they can get through it at closer to their normal level of performance. In the end though it's not really helping the specific player because all it's doing is compounding the problem. It's a business and these guys are paid to perform.

Professional athletes in general are prescribed narcotic pain killers like it's candy, that's just reality. Ultimately it's up to the players to regulate themselves.

As far as Sean Payton goes, I'll have to wait and see what exactly his involvement entails, but I really don't see a need for a head coach to be involved with the theft of pain killers unless he was addicted, stealing them for profit (which I can't possibly imagine) or giving them to certain players without the trainer's approval.

Peace

[edit on 2-5-2010 by Dr Love]

I do not know how much pain professional athletes live with. Maybe you should ask average day construction workers and what they live with.

A list of injuries.

Broke L5 vertebrae into several pieces. Repair by internal fixaters and rods with a layer of cadaver bone tissue and patients tissue laid over area to promote fusion of the area. Also frontal repair done through abdomen.

Both forearms broken just behind wrist. External fixaters used to repair.

Right shoulder area torn ligaments and tendons causing permanent pain in shoulder, no repair possible.

Crushed fingers in many incidents.

Broken right elbow. Set in a cast.

4 broken ankles or severe strains, right ankle once, left ankle 3 times.

Severe arthritis throughout all joints in the body. Seems the damaged areas are not quite as bad as the others.

You bring up opiates being stolen or some such problems. Hell, Thomas Jefferson was allowed to grow his own medications. I guess in this day and age, we are not allowed to be as free as back in the day. I guess we are no longer free to self medicate. No, we get to pay the doc, the pharmacist, the government, etc etc etc.

One thing about being a professional athlete, at least they make the big bucks to deal with it. Where as us chumps have to actually deal with the pain and have a Captain and Coke now and then to dull the pain somewhat. I find it really odd that in this day and age of supposed enlightenment, it is still a crime when there IS NO VICTIM.

Originally posted by LususNaturae
But... people are weak. Weakness, although ought not to be, is often a good way to make a quick profit. Addiction is a mental thing, and I think THAT'S where the real conspiracy lies with 'big pharma'. THEY want you to believe that opiates are super-addictive. The more you believe, the more profit they make. You really think it's a coincidence that oxycodone and other pharmaceutical opiates are on the street, selling for AT LEAST 5 times the normal price?
And these drugs lead, like a gateway, into the world of heroin, morphine etc. And THAT my friend, is where the true profit lies.

I mean, damn, at 80 bucks a half a gram... that's like, a lot more than the price of gold per weight, innit?

I too usually hate to correct people, however...

Your assertion that opioid addiction is a "mental thing" could not be further from the truth...

It has been prove a long time ago that significant changes (neuro-adaptation) occur in the brains of opioid addicts, in particular the dopaminergic system, which lowers the amount of dopamine produced at synapses...

This is why more and more of the drug is required over time, the dopaminergic system requires more in order to produce the same amount of dopamine and produce the pleasure associated with an opioid high...

Eventually, many abusers find that no matter what dose they take, the pleasure or high doesn't happen, and they have to take higher and higher doses merely to function day to day and keep withdrawal at bay...

It can take several years after ceasing opioid abuse for this system to return to "normal"...

This is why there are significant and often severe physiological symptoms when the opioid in question is withdrawn...

Now, the question of why some people become addicted to opioids and some don't, that one is definitely up for grabs...The functionality of opioid receptor systems in the brain is still not well understood, hence the current lack of a concrete idea of why some become abusers, and some don't...

Opioid addiction is far from being a mental thing or all in someone's head...

reply to post by Retrovertigo


Could it be a learned response.

Where we are all taught that ANY drug use is bad. I find it hilarious that stimulants such as caffeine or a drug like alcohol can be said to be okay but pretty much any others are disallowed.

Anyway, like I say, freedom is just another word for slavery.

Originally posted by endisnighe
reply to post by Retrovertigo

 

Could it be a learned response.

Where we are all taught that ANY drug use is bad. I find it hilarious that stimulants such as caffeine or a drug like alcohol can be said to be okay but pretty much any others are disallowed.

Anyway, like I say, freedom is just another word for slavery.

A learned response ? Hmmmm...Kinda...

Dopamine is released as a "reward" for doing something pleasurable...Typically this would occur during sex, after eating a satisfying meal, spending time with people who's company you enjoy and so on...So in that respect, dopamine is released when we do something "pleasurable", which we learn to do as much as possible because it "feels good"...

Opioids elicit the same response from the dopaminergic system in that dopamine is released when said drugs attach to opioid receptors in the brain...Alcohol, amphetamines, cannabis and various other drugs also have similar actions/effects (Alcohol is a little different as it has an effect on the GABA system in the brain)...

Retrovertigo.
Sorry, you have not corrected me. You have proven that withdrawal symptoms exist, but addiction is a very vague statement to make. I am actually an advocate of the non-existence of the actual state of 'addiction'. One can certainly be mentally addicted to something, someone, or a state of mind, but such a physical anomaly, in my opinion, is counter-evolutionary and serves absolutely no purpose. Withdrawal symptoms, which many 'addicts' will suffer from, are a very rare cause of death, and usually only found in heavy opiate users. Nobody, as far as I know, has died of a nicotine withdrawal, or alcohol withdrawal. Yes, the effects of withdrawal are painful and a cause of suffering, however, long-term use may prove to be only a mental addiction.

You mention dopamines, etc. If addiction is a real physiological phenomenon, then one could, technically, be physically addicted to any experience or state of mind. I do not believe this to be the case. I BELIEVE that physical addiction was, lets say ' invented ' by certain anti-drug movements, in the 1900's, maybe closer to 1910 to make perfectly legal drugs, such as heroin and coc aine look bad, for reasons of exploitation and profit.

It's alright that you disagree with me and I'm sure many others disagree with me as well, but withdrawal symptoms do not equate to addiction. Once the withdrawal stage is passed, one can still mentally want to do the drug or experience the experience again, but it is not a physical compulsion. Nobody is FORCING the addict to take the drug, therefore it can only be done by the volition of the user, which further proves the 'mental addiction' over the 'physical addiction'.

Peace, and no offence taken, or meant,

LususNaturae

Originally posted by LususNaturae
Nobody, as far as I know, has died of a nicotine withdrawal, or alcohol withdrawal.

Nobody has died from alcohol withdrawal ? Wow ! You really are in denial of the science, aren't you ?

Countless numbers of people have died from the symptoms brought on by alcohol withdrawal, in fact alcohol withdrawal is pretty much the only kind of withdrawal that can kill...

I'm only going to quote the wiki article, but there are thousands and thousands of pages which disprove your assertion...

Whilst you may be happy to agree to disagree with me, the science is very much against you in your stance on addiction...

If you want to ignore that, fine and I'll leave you with some parting advice...

"Burying your head in the sand only makes it easier for people to # you"

Let's not stray too far Off Topic, Please.

Lawsuit says Saints covered up stolen Vicodin

TIA

[edit on Sun May 2 2010 by Jbird]

Off-Topic Post. This argument has no resolution anyway.

[edit on 2-5-2010 by LususNaturae]

Originally posted by Dr Love
To say Vicodin isn't performance enhancing is not really correct. If they have a sprain or a pulled/torn muscle or a myriad of other injuries that can affect their performance during a game, they can take this stuff before a game so they can get through it at closer to their normal level of performance. In the end though it's not really helping the specific player because all it's doing is compounding the problem. It's a business and these guys are paid to perform.

Well Vicodin is a narcotic analgesic, the hydrocodone being the narcotic and paracetamol (acetaminophen) being the analgesic ... essentially it is Tylenol with a semi-synthetic opiate. So the only added benefit from taking a Tylenol from a pain management pov. is the narcotic element, which certainly doesn't enhance performance, anyone who has ever taken a prescribed opiate can certainly attest to that. In any case I don't believe it's even on the NFL's list of banned substances. Thus if the accused had a proper script for the Vicodin the NFL would have no issue with the "performance enhancing" aspect of it.

Seems to me that this is more of a recreational/addiction drug issue with obvious legal ramifications.

First of all, we are talking about synthetic opiates, so there is no connection between big pharma and the poppy fields. There is a problem if theft is involved. I bet the DEA is already involved in tracking this down. There are theories that those who are pre-disposed to addiction have inadequate dopamine production from square one. Say you have an individual who has adequate dopamine production in their brain. They don't need a mood elevator. They feel good anyway. If you take another person who is dopamine challenged, they never feel very good and are more likely to use substances, and because of their pre-disposition, are at a much higher risk of the physical and psychological state of addiction. Sure, if they never use in the first place, they don't get addicted. That isn't reality, however.

Let me use myself as an example. I am 56, and both my parents had problems with alcohol, making me pre-disposed, purely from chemical and neuroendocrine reasons. I became a very serious football player, and was recruited as a 10th grader. I blew my knee out as a junior, so that was the end of that. I also ruined both shoulders, an ankle, an elbow, as well as my cervical and lumbar spine. I began to self-medicate because of pain and psychological reasons. I perked along ok until about age 49. At this point, diabetes, diabetic neuropathy and cervical and lumbar radiculopathy entered the picture. I started going to a pain clinic. I did wonderful for about 6 months. At that point my tolerance got high enough that it took larger doses, and the medicine became toxic at that point. Whammo, acute catatonic depression entered the scene. It took 2 hospitalizations to get me fixed, and I've been pretty good for 5 years. I get 15 Lorcet 10 a month and make do on that. I've often wished I could trade bodies with those who don't understaqnd for just six weeks so they could go through what I go through every day. Yeah, construction workers have these kinds of problems, but they aren't slamming themselves into 275 pounders like a train wreck. It's different.

If something is wrong legally here, it should be prosecuted. Thingsw have gone too far the other way, as I've seen many expamples personally of older folks who have cancer and their Docs won't give them the serious pain meds they need. They don't want to get them addicted. That isn't really it...they don't want the DEA on their ass for "overperscribing". These issues are much more complex than most folks realize, and it is far beyond black and white.

Originally posted by schrodingers dog
Seems to me that this is more of a recreational/addiction drug issue with obvious legal ramifications.

yea that is becoming clearer.
now I wonder what those ramifications
are gonna do to the Saints club.

Or even if it's gonna trickle down
to actual players names or even suspensions.

Or maybe even cost the Saints future draft picks