Our recent trip to Ukraine (Kyiv)

Greetings ATS,

I've been really busy with a few things and only been lurking for a few months now. I'm still working on a few things that will keep me busy, but wanted to post this thread about our recent trip to Ukraine (Kyiv) to provide my anecdotal experience, and contrast it with the MSM narrative about what is going on there.

So, our entire family (myself, wife, 9 1/2 yr old daughter, and almost 7 yr old twins (boy/girl)) traveled to Ukraine, leaving Atlanta on April first.

Since you cannot currently fly into Ukraine, we had to fly into Warsaw Poland, and take a train to Kyiv. The train ride consisted of two different trains, the first one taking us from Warsaw to Chelm, then we switched to a sleeper for the much longer ride to Kyiv. The first train was very fast, nice and modern, but while the sleeper was fairly comfortable, it was really old and slow. About 45 minutes after the sleeper departed Chelm, we stopped for about an hour for 'passport control', then it finally moved again for maybe 15 minutes before stopping again for 'border control', which took a little longer. I think the entire train ride was about 12 hours, but I'm not sure if that includes the time we were stopped, all I know was it was a very long trip, especially with the 3 little ones.

We finally got to Kyiv around 9 or 10 pm, and it took us another hour by taxi. We were going to do Uber, but allowed ourselves to be persuaded to take a private taxi, which gave me cause for concern momentarily, when the driver didn't seem to be able to find our apartment, then all of a sudden stopped, jumped out and walked quickly over to talk to someone. Again, this was late in the evening, and I had a fleeting concern that we were about to be robbed (or worse), but it turned out that the lady he spoke to lived in our building and told him how to get around to the entrance. So, we finally reached our AirBNB apartment. But this presented us with our first challenge. When my wife made the AirBNB reservation, all she got from the owner was an entrance code, which turned out to be the code to get into the building. However, we needed a key to get into the apartment, and we didn't have one. So there we are, almost midnight after a long tiring train ride, with three scared crying kids (still scared by my reaction to what the driver had done), sitting on the dark, creepy steps inside the apartment building while my wife attempts to contact the owner. Thankfully, she (the owner) responded and apologized for failing to explain that she left the key with the concierge of a nearby building (ours didn't have a concierge), which my wife was able to find and got the key.

Oh - incidentally, the main reason my wife was handling all of this is she is native Russian (naturalized back in 2005 or so after we got married), and while Ukraine has its own language, it shares a lot in common with Russian, and also most Ukrainians can speak enough Russian that she was able to communicate very well with everyone we encountered in Ukraine. The other reason is I was recently declared legally blind and cannot see very well at all (cataracts) so cannot read (or even see until I get close) signs, or anything else for that matter. I'll be posting a separate thread about this health related problem of mine, and what I'm doing to fix the problem naturally (it isn't surgery, for reasons I'll explain in that thread).

So, we finally get into the apartment and I'm pleasantly surprised at how roomy and comfortable it is compared to the one we rented the last time we went to Ukraine almost 7 years ago (if anyone really needs to know why we went back then, and again this time, PM me, it isn't something I want in the OP).

We stayed for about 6 weeks, never leaving Kyiv.

Now, as to what we experienced with regard to the ongoing 'war':

Nothing. Zero. Nada. Zilch.

The only evidence that anything was amiss was t he occasional air raid sirens that would go off that everyone either completely ignored or just laughed about. These were usually no more than once a day, but there were a few days when there were none, and a few days when there were 2 or even 3.

Other than that, there was simply nothing going on... well, other than the break dancing in t he streets at night, and tons of people going every which way living their lives.

Oh, and contrary to reports that all of the young men of military age have died while serving, the place was literally overrun with young men of military age.

Again, this is just our one isolated experience and observations in one small area in Kyiv, but it appears to me that the air raid sirens are used more for keeping the fear of war alive, and the reports in our own MSM of the ongoing war in Ukraine, at least with respect to Kyiv, are grossly exaggerated, if not downright fabrications.

a reply to: tanstaafl

sorry about your eyesight but what prompted you to take young children to a potential conflict area?
Cozumel is nice this time of year.

Thank you for sharing that with us.

So, did you travel extensively around the town? If so, did you see any major damage to buildings and such?

originally posted by: rdambroso
a reply to: tanstaafl

sorry about your eyesight

It's a pain in the ass, but I'm confident they'll be as good as new in the next few months.

but what prompted you to take young children to a potential conflict area?
Cozumel is nice this time of year.

As I said in my OP:

"if anyone really needs to know why we went back then, and again this time, PM me, it isn't something I want in the OP"

originally posted by: rdambroso
a reply to: tanstaafl

sorry about your eyesight but what prompted you to take young children to a potential conflict area?
Cozumel is nice this time of year.

Walking down the street in London, you can get stabbed, in New York, you can be shot, in San Francisco, you can get free beer....oops, different thread.

In all seriousness, this world is a violent place. no matter were you go. Gang violence in the US can ALMOST be equated to the Ukraine violence.

No matter where you go, you a breath from violence.

And not speaking for the OP, but my eyes were opened a long time ago.

But after Covid, a whole lot more people are starting to see how the game is played. Most with the intelligence of a slug or better, know that the propaganda from Russia, is equaled by the US's.

Remember, in 2016, Obama made it legal for news organizations to air propaganda in the US.

We know it is not good in Ukraine, but we also know it is better than the us news tells us. The worse it sounds on TV, the more money congress can send to the new money pit.

I would have no problem going to Ukraine as a tourist right now...other than $$$ that is.

originally posted by: chiefsmom
Thank you for sharing that with us.

So, did you travel extensively around the town? If so, did you see any major damage to buildings and such?

Not a lot, but we did take a tour with the lady representing the owner of the AirBNB we were staying at, and at one point there was one building that had a bunch of windows with the glass blown out, this was probably a 10 story building and the ones t hat were blown out were up high. She told us it was from some kind of explosion very early in the war, but that nothing else had happened in Kyiv that she was aware of.

a reply to: tanstaafl

Bringing your small kids into a warzone, any I know you say you would explain it in a PM.
But I cannot think of ANY reason that would justify that, even if there was a magic potion there that would cure your kids of a deadly virus.. I would not bring them, I would get it myself and come back.

a reply to: tanstaafl

Now, as to what we experienced with regard to the ongoing 'war':

Nothing. Zero. Nada. Zilch.

Well... Kyiv isn't being now in the war zone. The Russian offensive takes place in Donetsk and Kharkiv region at the moment now. There has even been a thread about it recently.

the reports in our own MSM of the ongoing war in Ukraine, at least with respect to Kyiv, are grossly exaggerated, if not downright fabrications.

I don't know what news you're watching but here nobody claims that the Russians are approaching Kyiv or bombing the s**t out of it now. However, the whole Ukraine is in the state of war with Russia. That means that the enemy can attack anywhere if such is their fancy. And while the troops need some time to move from one region to another, the bombs don't need as much time to strike a target. This is why taking children to the war torn country is simply irresponsible and... (sorry) stupid.

Folks, all due respect, but why a person travels with their family to a location could be for a variety of reasons which are more than credible, and these reasons are none of our business. Yes, it's dangerous, but sometimes there are situations which take precedence. Among some of these reasons could be to see other family members whom are unable, unwilling or prohibited from leaving wherever they are. Until you know the full story it's not really appropriate to criticize. It's bad form. Again, all due respect.

OP...thank you for your write up, but I must also echo the statements of another member above; western media has not, to my knowledge, been characterizing all of Ukraine as having been flattened, and they frequently show Kyiv as operating normally. This is no different than many major cities in countless war zones throughout history. Many parts of England operated normally throughout WWII even though England was right in the middle of everything, and was regularly being firebombed.

I'm not sure exactly what motivations someone might have to minimize the conflict in Ukraine...on either side...certainly not from a humanitarian perspective. There is a overwhelming amount of nauseating video evidence of massive loss of life in this conflict. In fact, I would put forth that, if anything, people are being "under-informed" about the magnitude and scale of the conflict, not the other way around. I firmly believe there millions around the globe who are saying..."I can't see it from my house, so as far as I'm concerned it's not happening!". This is a colossal oversight.

One wrong move, on either side, could easily escalate this conflict into a larger regional conflict or even a world war. If Putin starts lighting off tactical nukes in response to some perceived NATO involvement in the region, this could have worldwide implications. So, I see no purpose in minimizing the conflict.

Again, thank you for your write up, and I mean this sincerely. And, please don't take my words here as a personal affront to you personally; it is not intended this way at all, but rather it intended to provide perspective from a more global geopolitical observation point.

S&F.

"Jewish pilgrims flock to historic Ukrainian city despite war with Russia"
Pilgrims going to Ukraine
safer than israel ?

_________________________

originally posted by: chiefsmom
Thank you for sharing that with us.

So, did you travel extensively around the town? If so, did you see any major damage to buildings and such?

Nothing is damaged in Kiev

originally posted by: Spacespider1111
a reply to: tanstaafl

Bringing your small kids into a warzone, any I know you say you would explain it in a PM.
But I cannot think of ANY reason that would justify that, even if there was a magic potion there that would cure your kids of a deadly virus.. I would not bring them, I would get it myself and come back.

It's mote dangerous taking your kids to New York, Chicago or LA then it is to Kiev

originally posted by: Spacespider1111
a reply to: tanstaafl

Bringing your small kids into a warzone, any I know you say you would explain it in a PM.
But I cannot think of ANY reason that would justify that, even if there was a magic potion there that would cure your kids of a deadly virus.. I would not bring them, I would get it myself and come back.

You are welcome to your opinion of course, but we relied on the words of people who live there and have been there throughout, and they told us the MSM was lying about what was going on and that there was absolutely nothing going on in Kyiv.

So we made our decision. If we had someone we trusted completely that was willing, we may have left the kids behind, but we didn't and we had to go, so we did.

originally posted by: twistedpuppy
a reply to: tanstaafl

This is why taking children to the war torn country is simply irresponsible and... (sorry) stupid.

Opinions and assholes...

The last reported attack on Kyiv seems to have been March (which was unsuccessful).

How is that different from your experience?

originally posted by: Flyingclaydisk
Again, thank you for your write up, and I mean this sincerely. And, please don't take my words here as a personal affront to you personally; it is not intended this way at all, but rather it intended to provide perspective from a more global geopolitical observation point.

S&F.

Thank you for your rational response, and no offense taken. I am fully aware that there was a risk to go there, and I in fact did try to find a way to not bring our kids with us, but after cponsidering all available information, we decided to risk it.

As to my comment about what the MSM was saying, I don't in fact watch it at all any more, and was just going by things I've heard others say.

One additional comment... on our last train ride there, I had an entire sleeper compartment to myself (4 beds), until the last 4 hours or so, when a very nice Ukrainian gentleman joined me. When he learned that I was an American, he expressed interest in practicing his English and I was happy to oblige, so we started chatting. His English was not great, but fairly passable, so we took turns asking questions. He was on his way to Kyiv to drive his brother - who was in the military, but on leave - to some city about 6 or so hours away from Kyiv. His brother didn't have a drivers license, so couldn't drive himself.

He told me that while there has been loss of life and the Donbass and Crimea regions were definitely hot spots, their own media grossly exaggerated things all the time.

One funny topic of discussion was when he asked about Trump, and if I was fearful of a deranged insurrectionist taking power. I laughed, and explained to him that none of the things he had heard about what happened on Jan 6 where Trump is concerned were true, that he did not do any of the things the MSM claimed, and that in fact, if he is re-elected, it would be the best thing for Ukraine, because what he would do is not just pull our support (this was his biggest concern.fear), but that what he would do is bring the war to an end with Russia leaving Ukraine. He said that he was very glad to have met me on the train, and that he was much more hopeful for the future.

Oh - we actually ended up being able to communicate perfectly because my wife came in at some point and was able to translate the harder parts.

Anyway, it was a very interesting trip to say the least.