Evidence in Scripture disproving god once and for all

Originally posted by Good Wolf
Your right, I don't accept it. I find this whole "read the scriptures with the spirit of the holy ghost" thing a bit problematic, because all it means you have to convince yourself it's true when you read it even if it doesn't make sense or is completely wrong. It's not an enlightening thing, it's nothing but a mental blinder, otherwise more Christians would wake up to how preposterous it all really is.
Interpreting = subjective
Holy Ghost = surrendering one's sense of reason so that anything you want can make sense in a cosmic kinda way.
Stupidity.
[edit on 28/11/2008 by Good Wolf]

On the contrary the Spirit guided Church is the Guarantor that not anything you want makes sense. Now there are masses of people who use scripture as a way of justifying their wants, they do this personally and outside the Church, without reference to the Church's teaching. Its a growing, though perennial problem, which distorts the message of Christ into something only human.

Such recourse and submission to the sensus fidelium is, in another parlance, "peer review." What insights I may personally have into Scripture etc. I test against the teaching of the Church for affirmation or correction. It's not just I that do this, no single member of the Church has the personal authority to declare their own particular interpretation as the interpretation. From the pope down to me we all must have our theories subjected to peer review, where our peers are that semper, ubique et ab omnibus of the Church as the Mystical Body of Christ.

The charge of stuidity is countered by my 12 years of (secular) University studies in Theology, Philosophy, Comparative Religions and Archaeology, my active pursuit of scientific study as a past time and other learning. Let me assure you, this guy ain't stupid. Neither am I ignorant as I, like many of my Catholic peers, do not ignore any learning that comes my way.

Originally posted by badmedia
If that was appropriate and the way it was meant to presented, then it would have been written that way. It was not. Those things were put into seperate contexts of what you said.

John 14 has nothing at all to do with a church for example, that chapter is dealing with how people will see and know Jesus/God. The disciples ask him how they will see him, and Jesus explains the process - which I know to be true. The chapter never comes close to mentioning a church.

Don't limit yourself to the convenient chapter and verse structure. Read the totality of Johannine discourse (John 13-18) it is absoultely about the Church from the Mandatum, through the Vine to the prayer for unity.

reply to post by Supercertari


It seems a bit bizarre then that the church can't help but splinter into ever more contrasting (violently, historically) denominations who all seem to think that they have the right interpretation guided by the holy spirit. Is God just messing with us? He doesn't seem to be doing much about saving Christianity does he?

Guidance from the Holy Spirit? Baseless Claim.

Starred and flagged.

I used to ask my pastor about these things, when I was in my early teens, last I really went to church , without "haveing" to go.

I'd love thier answers.

Biggest one was. You must have "faith", my son.

A close second was, "God works in mysterious ways".

But I thought that was a cheesy 80's song. "She moves in mysterious ways....

anyhow, they don't have answers to these,especially the third.

Because it is ENTIRELY IMPOSSIBLE to "create" something, AND give it free-will. It will have your will, whoever created it.

So really if I murder someone..., god knew that before I was born yea? So he did the murder.

Religion is just stories for people scared of dieing.

Believe me I've foxhole prayed many times since comeing to these conclusions.

And if I am ever attacked by some Demon, I will make a cross, and use Gods name against it, Haha! Worth a shot yea?

Originally posted by Supercertari
Don't limit yourself to the convenient chapter and verse structure. Read the totality of Johannine discourse (John 13-18) it is absoultely about the Church from the Mandatum, through the Vine to the prayer for unity.

It just simply isn't. If it was, you wouldn't have needed to put the verses together as you did, you would have found verses where Jesus was explaining it as such.

In John 14, it even shows that Jesus in image alone as many presented is not the ONLY way. It is his path that is the ONLY way. As is proven when Jesus says if you do not hear his words, you will hear the words of the father. And then the holy spirit will teach you all things as you mentioned. Again I know this because this is what I experienced. I was taught the path of Jesus before I even knew it was the path of Jesus.

Unless you are trying to pass the bible off as the holy spirit, which I know to be false as I didn't learn from the bible, then how is it even talking about the church. I was so far away from church when those things happened.

Jesus was the example of god on earth, and the example of someone who did not break the commandments for any reason. God so loved the world that he sent his only son Jesus here - to show you the example of god on earth, so that you might believe and follow his path back to heaven. Even though he knew the people would reject and kill him, he suffered through that just to give you that example. When he says believe or accept me, he is talking about accepting what he says as being truth. Jesus even says - if you believe you will follow. Numerous times he talks about how the wise man is the one who does what he says and walks the path and so on.

But this is not what the church presents to people. The church presents that if you merely believe his life was without sin and that he is the son of god - that you are forgiven and saved. This is deception. You are forgiven when you understand why you were wrong, why you sinned and then you no longer do it anymore. At which point it is forgiven and forgotten because it is no longer and issue.

Jesus talks of the very narrow path. When the rich man comes to jesus, he doesn't tell that man to just accept his sacrifice as truth and that he is the son of god, he tells that man to walk the path. The church teaches you that you can never walk that path. Which is again more deception - you can not take away the sin you've done, and you can not live a sinless life as Jesus did. However, you can eventually walk that path and no longer commit sin. And you can do it at any point. You do that 1 bit at a time until you have done so. The path the church gives is not the narrow path Jesus talked of, it is a very wide path where even the rich man can keep his wealth and just accept Jesus and be forgiven, without any real path walking on his own.

And no doubt, that wide path the church preaches is a great selling point. But it is not the truth.

You were removed from the garden/heaven because you have evil in you to protect the tree of life(those who do not have evil), and you will not go back until you have learned how to live without sin. You have been given the example on the proper way to do that, the door has been opened for you - but you have to walk through it, and nobody can do it for you. That is the narrow path.

The rich man in the eyes of god is the man who has wisdom and understanding. Peter is building his church by learning the truth, gaining knowledge and understanding as he walks the path. That church, built on what is only obtained through god/Jesus, is present here on earth, and will be present in heaven. He is establishing his place in heaven. You can't take the physical with you, only what is gained in understanding/experience exists in both. As well these are not the people who actually founded the physical church, and nevermind that Jesus specifically told them not to make themselves into leaders, which is what the church does. Afterall - who leads the catholic church?






[edit on 28-11-2008 by badmedia]

Originally posted by Good Wolf
It seems a bit bizarre then that the church can't help but splinter into ever more contrasting (violently, historically) denominations who all seem to think that they have the right interpretation guided by the holy spirit. Is God just messing with us? He doesn't seem to be doing much about saving Christianity does he?

Guidance from the Holy Spirit? Baseless Claim.

It is, if not bizarre, certainly lamentable that some have been lead away from The Church. It is my desire that all people of faith and goodwill will be inspired to return to the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church.

These phenomenon have been a consequence of the sinful nature of man and are well represented and prefigured in John 6:60-68:

On hearing it, many of his disciples said, "This is a hard teaching. Who can accept it?"
Aware that his disciples were grumbling about this, Jesus said to them, "Does this offend you? What if you see the Son of Man ascend to where he was before! The Spirit gives life; the flesh counts for nothing. The words I have spoken to you are spirit and they are life. Yet there are some of you who do not believe." For Jesus had known from the beginning which of them did not believe and who would betray him. He went on to say, "This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless the Father has enabled him."
From this time many of his disciples turned back and no longer followed him.
"You do not want to leave too, do you?" Jesus asked the Twelve.
Simon Peter answered him, "Lord, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life. We believe and know that you are the Holy One of God."

A fine explanation of this can be found in the Catechism of the Catholic Church (811-865) External Source which is summarized as follows:

866 The Church is one: she acknowledges one Lord, confesses one faith, is born of one Baptism, forms only one Body, is given life by the one Spirit, for the sake of one hope (cf ⇒ Eph 4:3-5), at whose fulfillment all divisions will be overcome.
867 The Church is holy: the Most Holy God is her author; Christ, her bridegroom, gave himself up to make her holy; the Spirit of holiness gives her life. Since she still includes sinners, she is "the sinless one made up of sinners." Her holiness shines in the saints; in Mary she is already all-holy.
868 The Church is catholic: she proclaims the fullness of the faith. She bears in herself and administers the totality of the means of salvation. She is sent out to all peoples. She speaks to all men. She encompasses all times. She is "missionary of her very nature" (AG 2).
869 The Church is apostolic. She is built on a lasting foundation: "the twelve apostles of the Lamb" (⇒ Rev 21:14). She is indestructible (cf ⇒ Mt 16:18). She is upheld infallibly in the truth: Christ governs her through Peter and the other apostles, who are present in their successors, the Pope and the college of bishops.
870 "The sole Church of Christ which in the Creed we profess to be one, holy, catholic, and apostolic, . . . subsists in the Catholic Church, which is governed by the successor of Peter and by the bishops in communion with him. Nevertheless, many elements of sanctification and of truth are found outside its visible confines"(LG 8).

Originally posted by badmedia
Again I know this because this is what I experienced. I was taught the path of Jesus before I even knew it was the path of Jesus.

Your experience might have lead you to the fullest understanding of Christ, salvation and His Church if you moved beyond it as a personal experience and acknowledged it as an experience as one of many who require the direction and understanding of the Church to understand such personal revelations.

Unless you are trying to pass the bible off as the holy spirit, which I know to be false

Here is where your personal revelation, unexamined by the Church, has lead you into error. The Scriptures are inspired by the Holy Spirit as has been their redaction, compilation and continuing interpretation.

Jesus was the example of god on earth, and the example of someone who did not break the commandments for any reason.

Jesus was not the example of God on earth, Jesus was God on Earth.

But this is not what the church presents to people. The church presents that if you merely believe his life was without sin and that he is the son of god - that you are forgiven and saved. This is deception. You are forgiven when you understand why you were wrong, why you sinned and then you no longer do it anymore. At which point it is forgiven and forgotten because it is no longer and issue.

Here your insights are in line with the teaching of the Church, for indeed it is not those who say “Lord! Lord!” who are saved but those who’s life is marked by the repentance of their sins and the possible corporeal works of mercy detailed in Matthew 25:31-46. ie. A life transformed by faith.

The rich man in the eyes of god is the man who has wisdom and understanding. Peter is building his church by learning the truth, gaining knowledge and understanding as he walks the path. That church, built on what is only obtained through god/Jesus, is present here on earth, and will be present in heaven. He is establishing his place in heaven. You can't take the physical with you, only what is gained in understanding/experience exists in both. As well these are not the people who actually founded the physical church, and nevermind that Jesus specifically told them not to make themselves into leaders, which is what the church does. Afterall - who leads the catholic church?

Excluding the physical from Kingdom of Heaven rejects the resurrection and ascension of Jesus, the Assumption of Mary, the second coming, the physical resurrection at the last day, etc.
The Catholic Church is lead by Christ Her Groom and constantly inspired and guided by the Holy Spirit. The papacy and the apostolic communion always submit to the authority of Christ and the Spirit.

Originally posted by Supercertari
It is, if not bizarre, certainly lamentable that some have been lead away from The Church. It is my desire that all people of faith and goodwill will be inspired to return to the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church.

Sounds like a 1 world religion, not a world where everyone has a personal relationship with god. With your pope - who claims to be christ on earth as the ruler of all.

Your church is divided and has been by it's own hypocrisy where the truth shined in on the people and exposed it. The only time the catholic church has ever had the majority of membership is when it killed, tortured and forced the people into it.

Given the history of the catholic church, even as fresh in history as WW2. Knowing that a good tree will only bring forward good fruit, then how can such a corrupted fruit come from a good tree in Jesus?

Originally posted by Supercertari
Here is where your personal revelation, unexamined by the Church, has lead you into error. The Scriptures are inspired by the Holy Spirit as has been their redaction, compilation and continuing interpretation.

And here is where you try to pass off what may have been inspired by the holy spirit as the holy spirit.

Jesus was not the example of God on earth, Jesus was God on Earth.

Surely you realize I mean God came in the form of Jesus to be the example.

Here your insights are in line with the teaching of the Church, for indeed it is not those who say “Lord! Lord!” who are saved but those who’s life is marked by the repentance of their sins and the possible corporeal works of mercy detailed in Matthew 25:31-46. ie. A life transformed by faith.

I have no insights. I have knowledge and understanding that was given to me directly. Jesus(God) says he will appear to people in a vision or a dream. That is what I experienced.

Excluding the physical from Kingdom of Heaven rejects the resurrection and ascension of Jesus, the Assumption of Mary, the second coming, the physical resurrection at the last day, etc.
The Catholic Church is lead by Christ Her Groom and constantly inspired and guided by the Holy Spirit. The papacy and the apostolic communion always submit to the authority of Christ and the Spirit.

Jesus/God was on all levels the entire time. Thus why he appeared to man as human, to angels as a body of light - not the physical and so on. He did not appear in heaven as he did on earth in the physical. As he is god, he appears as god in heave. His church/place in heaven was obviously not needing to be built or established as god has all understanding and knowledge and is the teacher, but peter being the follower is another story. The gifts Jesus gives are not the kind that is given by the world.

Now, there is a difference in people coming together to share and talk, and when they happens Jesus will be amongst them. But the church established a hierarchy where man puts himself above other men, and that is what Jesus told them specifically not to do. He said do not make yourself rabbi's or leaders. And while you can use semantics and say - oh we have a different name for it, those names did not exist at the time of Jesus, and they are the same function.

Originally posted by Evisscerator
reply to post by nj2day

 

The Bible does not contain "contradictions". What contradicts with the Bible are people who do not fully understand it and attempt to dissect it in ways that are in opposition to it. Most theologians will stand behind me on this.

No the bible does contradict enormously - what would you expect when it was written by people who didnt know each other and then these bits of writing were collected and compiled at the council of Nicea by a bunch of randoms.

I do contradict the bible by dissecting it in opposition, isnt this how you make an educated decision, little sheep ?

Do you think Jesus swallowed the Jewish pill after he discovered how bogus their religion was ? - no he stood up against it, he fought it and died for it with honour.

If you dont think your bible contradicts, you more than likely haven't read it enough. I guess that says a lot about our poor theologians, but then again - if it would ultimately break their heart - AND make their degree moot to them, what incentive do they have to seek the truth ? The mind is powerful enough to blind itself in order to protect it's little interests.

reply to post by Supercertari

Jesus was not the example of God on earth, Jesus was God on Earth.

Jesus was not God. This is why the earth is doomed, because of thease type of people who call themselves christians. Infact that the christian religion has NOTHING to do with God. You do not understand nothing about God, you only know about humans, because you have faith in humans. I have seen God, and I have seen Jesus, how? That is from my "personal experience". You do not know about that, because God hasn't allowed you to know. You are not one of the "children of God", because you want to be a christian.

reply to post by Supercertari


Sorry dude, Catholicism isn't really my favourite religion of all time, it's right up there with the mormons in all fairness but what I wanted to mention was that, you do realise that this "church" is a church of living stones right ? - it's not a building - thats why Jesus was the stone that the builders rejected. Thats why he came to destroy the church - in other words organised RELIGION. You Christians/Catholics/Meth... whatevers are actually propagating the opposite message of what your scriptures are teaching.

Instead of stupid little buildings where people "worship" God, they should be worshipping God by loving their fellow man, brotherhood of man united under one God, living and loving. People only go to church because they feel guilty, they only feel guilty because the church told them they were born into sin, it's circular.

Didn't Jesus say he came to set the prisoners free ? .... I wonder who those prisoners were... hmmm... gotta rack my brains here.... could it be the people that were getting absolutely screwed over every day of their lives by religion ? ... They were slaves to the priests who were making a killing out of the sheep of the day, why else did they crucify Jesus - he was aboslutely wrecking their business and they felt it in their pockets.



.....meh..

[edit on 11/28/08 by mortalengine]

Gods words written by men. Also think about the total number times translated.

Originally posted by nj2day

Free Will:
Galations 5:13
You, my brothers, were called to be free. But do not use your freedom to indulge the sinful nature; rather, serve one another in love.

(Might be worthy to note at this point, that I discovered a contradiction in the bible while researching... see the galations 5 text above, and compare to Ephesians 1:11, "In him we were also chosen, having been predestined according to the plan of him who works out everything in conformity with the purpose of his will". Which appears to be stating we don't have free will, but are bound by the "grand scheme" that god has put together.)

Hi NJ, this is not a new argument. This is the issue of the Foreknowledge Conundrum. If god is truly all knowing and all powerful etc.(look for cool omni words to insert here), then every decision we make is not based on free will and so on and so forth. For if we were to make a decision that god did not know of, then this would mean that god was mistaken or held a false belief resulting in a conflict with the doctrine of gods infallibility blah blah. I have come across Thomas Flints "Cuthbert" example a few time in journals and discussions and it is a good example of describing this conundrum(just for future reference) as it is a far clearer example then the one I quote you in above, from your OP.
It is conundrums like this that have inspired the analytical philosophy towards the principles of divine attributes as explained in the bible. Arthur Prior(tense-logic) and Nelson Pike being the the authors of seminal works that led the charge in discussing these issues. I am surprised that you have not thought to search on literature or journals relating to these issues, especially for a temporal logic discussion. I guess in the rush for christian blood(he-he), you perhaps thought you where somehow breaking ground in terms of logically thrashing the bible to see how it stands up. To slow NJ, better minds than both you and I are way ahead!
I don't think that your thread will result in redefining the beliefs held regarding the bible. If you are to disprove the bible, i suggest you do some more work.
Perhaps William Hasker and some of his lucid colleagues at the International Journal of Philosophy of Religion may aid you in answering some of the questions. It may cost you a subscription fee, but sometimes knowledge comes at a cost, weather that is financial, or perhaps at the expense of a previously held belief(say one that boasts to have proven the bible wrong or what not). LOL. Questia sometimes has volumes of free journals and papers, books etc online and it is a good place to search and preview stuff, without doing your hard earned money to prove to someone on a thread that has not done their homework, but wants to preach about religion, its truth and reality. *umm not looking at anyone in particular*

Luke 1:37
For nothing is impossible with God.

Omniscience
Psalm 147:4-5
He telleth the number of the stars; he calleth them all by their names. Great is our Lord, and of great power: his understanding is infinite.

Taking these scriptures into account, consider the following statements:

1) If god is Omnipotent, can he make an object so heavy he cannot lift it himself?

The first mistake that jumps out at me is that you place limitations on what gods knowledge and omnipotence is. Rock, weight, and object. If we are to assume for example that God exists, and is responsible for rocks and there weights as objects, then how is God limited by the weight of any object that he himself has created. You also assume that the Rock, an object that is effected by gravity that gives it the weight that we feel as a resistance against a force applied to it, will react exactly the way it does to god as it does for us. But if God is omnipotent, then logically, gravity as a potent creation and expression of god, will be expressed as gods wills it.

2) Free will: If god is Omniscient, than he knows your future. If he knows your future, than it is already set in stone (if your future changed, god would cease to be omniscient). Therefore Free will cannot exist... Which can't be true, since the bible is the infallible word of god, and says we are created free.

Predetermination again, see the part where you need to do more homework.

3) If god is all knowing, and all powerful, and the creator of all... than he must know who is doomed to hell before they are born. Knowing who is destined for hell, how can he offer a free pass to heaven by believing in Jesus? Surely he knew what you would decide before you were given the option. Therefore, choosing to believe or not to believe is not your choice, but is predestined before you were born. Your ticket has already been written, so don't sweat it... right?

Modal Fallacies concerning predetermination.....read on.

4) If god knows who is doomed to hell before their are born and allows them to be created anyway, than he is sentencing people to eternal damnation for sins never committed... If people are born without their futures etched in stone, than god cannot see the future.

5) If god is Omniscient, knowing what will happen in the future, than he can not use his omnipotence to change the outcome... As he is powerless to change the outcome of future events, he is not Omnipotent.

The first false belief that can arise out of this is that, If god knows something, it has to/will have to happen, is it set in stone. The answer is no.

If some future action/choice is known prior to its occurrence, that event does not thereby become "necessary", "compelled", "forced", or what have you. Inasmuch as its description was, is, and will remain forever contingent, both it and its negation remain possible. Of course only one of the two was, is, and will remain true; while the other was, is, and will remain false. But truth and falsity, per se, do not determine a proposition's modality. Whether true or false, each of these propositions was, is, and will remain possible. Knowing – whether by God or a human being – some future event no more forces that event to occur than our learning that dinosaurs lived in (what is now) South Dakota forced those reptiles to take up residence there.

Quote Taken from Epistemic Determinism in the Encyclopaedia of Philosophy.


I feel that these are modal faults in your attempt to determine these logically. See the problem is, we cannot see the world from a God POV, so God would see the necessity and logic of everything( including these puzzling conundrums and philosophical/theological oddities), the contingencies you point out in the scenarios above are simply the results of ignorance. These results would disappear with complete knowledge, and only an all knowing, ever present(insert more cool omni words here) being, god, deity et al can have complete knowledge. This is logical, would you not agree?

None of these conclusions look good for believers. It pretty much establishes that Christianity is wrong.

I think the only thing established here is your arrogance and your own ignorance in relation to these heavily discussed and debated philosophical, theological and biblical conundrums.

Don't feel left out quite yet mormons, jewish, muslim and hindus.... I hope to have enough time to take an objective look at your dogma and religious texts as well!

You know, there really is no need for this comment, you are quite capable of raising great points to discuss, leave it at that, that is all you need to do.
Good thread

Originally posted by rikk7111

You have answered your own Question to your own thread.Your topic is a religious topic...........So tell me why are your grounds of truth from the Bible?...............I guess all Atheist think that existence just went "POP" there it is...........................Not here to argue, just to reason...

Believers tell me that the bible is the ultimate truth. Some even go as far as to say the bible has never been changed, and doesn't contradict itself.

Since arguments from science are not acceptable to the believer, I have decided to make the argument on their own turf.

I'm not using the bible as grounds for truth. I'm using the bible to demonstrate that either the bible is wrong, or the way in which it discribes god cannot be possible.

If anything, by objectively looking at the bible as a whole (instead of verse/chapter like believers do) I have at the very least proven that the book is not a credible source.

as far as Atheists believing that everything went "pop", this is incorrect. Atheism means "without gods". Atheists do not have a unifying dogma besides the fact that they believe it all happened... without gods.

This means that An atheist may believe whatever origin of the universe theory that they find to be the most probable.

As far as THIS atheist, for what its worth, I believe in the Oscillating Universe Theory.

Originally posted by gordonwest
reply to post by nj2day

 

The bible(s) is wrong, they were created in the image of man. No, I am not a christian, because I do not belive in that life. What I do belive is, I do know that God is real, and Jesus, aswell. I know that they are in the 'Kingdom of God'.

Erm, than you're Jewish? To the Jewish faith jesus was a prophet.

However if you believe that Jesus was the "savior", than you are Christian by definition.

Originally posted by TheRandom1
Oh geez, not another one these bogus threads again.

I saw your "points" in your OP, you are trying to confine God into a carnal human box, basically you are a finite, temporary being trying to understand the infinite, it's about like an ant trying to understand how a human works or what a human is, all the ant sees is the feet of the human, but the human is much greater/bigger than that.

God is not restrained by your ideas of what YOU think He's confined to.

God is beyond our understanding.

-Lahara

I like the fact you said "saw" and not "read" because you clearly didnt "read" the "points". If you had taken the time to read the points or even just the opening words of the post you would have noticed how pointless what you've just said is.

Quoting from the OP.

Therefore, I will be setting forth a proof that the christian god cannot exist in the sense spoken of in the bible...

Originally posted by TheColdDragon
Is a higher dimensional supreme being bound by the laws of Physics, the laws of reaction, and the laws of time?

Yes. This is how they've been able to mathematically establish the fact that there are 11 dimensions. Amazingly enough, most of the laws of physics still apply in other dimensions.

Is it not conceivable that an Omnipotent deity could make a rock they could not lift and then proceed to lift it?

Then the rock wasn't so heavy he couldn't lift it then was it...

If they are not bound by any causation or paradox law, they could do anything and everything they like and not violate their own rules in even the least besmirching of notions.

Unfortunately, there are laws of physics... Some speculate that if the laws of physics were ever broken, the fabric of space/time could itself unravel.

The problem remains that as physical, temporal beings we are attributing physics and logic which we ourselves are bound by to a Deity which definitionally lacks boundaries.

Ok, I can somewhat buy the logic bit... our undeniable truths and interpritation of reality might be different than that of a 5 dimensional entity (we live in 4 dimensions). But the basic laws of physics still apply in all dimensions. This can be proven mathematically.

Logic wishes to reduce God to sensible terms and reasonable explanation, and so examines the flaws in the God theory in such a way.

That is fine if you believe this... but then you must accept the fact that the bible is not accurate.

Problem is, God doesn't make sense.

I can agree on this 100%... most likely for different reasons though...

God doesn't have to make sense. It doesn't mean God doesn't exist, only that it isn't required to play by the rules or be rationally understood.

If the laws of physics apply in all dimensions, then how can we decree that he doesn't have to? Why create the rules if he isn't going to live by them. Especially since there might be a chance that breaking some of these rules will "unglue" the universe?

I'm fairly certain this comment will fly over a lot of people's heads... but perhaps a few people will grok the complex and... weird way that this works in my own brain.

Nah, it really isn't anything I haven't heard before.

[edit on 28-11-2008 by nj2day]

Originally posted by Anonymous ATS
reply to post by mortalengine
[



Everything the Great "I AM" has done he has done out of love. Even his wrath and or slayings we see in the old testament. Yes he has the Jewish people slay beings. However the beings killed 99% of the time were in one way or another blood relatives to Fallen Angels or some sort of DNA "meddling".

God almighty man, and this "god" is the person you want to spend eternity with ? an "all loving" murderer ? - wait he doesnt even murder - he manipulates the minds of his "subordinates" to kill his "enemies" ???

Wait doesnt he say that Satan was a murderer and a liar from the beginning ? How then can he murder and not be called a murderer ? - it's a bit hypocritical dont you think, almost like 98% of christians, I guess they're following the right God then huh ?

Matt 10:26
"So never be afraid of them, because there is nothing hidden that will not be revealed, and nothing secret that will not be made known."

What? I have always kept on saying that *I* do NOT belive in being a christian. I do NOT need to be a christian to belive in God, and Jesus. Yeah, Jesus can do miracles. His father, God, is the real "savior" for humans. We are the "children of God", I am.

Originally posted by nj2day

Originally posted by gordonwest
reply to post by nj2day

 

The bible(s) is wrong, they were created in the image of man. No, I am not a christian, because I do not belive in that life. What I do belive is, I do know that God is real, and Jesus, aswell. I know that they are in the 'Kingdom of God'.

Erm, than you're Jewish? To the Jewish faith jesus was a prophet.

However if you believe that Jesus was the "savior", than you are Christian by definition.