Evidence in Scripture disproving god once and for all

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posted on Nov, 26 2008 @ 10:22 PM
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I have seen many many religious and anti religious posts pop up around here lately... and I've always noticed that it degenerates down to "well you can't prove me wrong" and "Prove your theory" statements...

It becomes blazingly apparent that the only way acceptable to a believer to refute their arguments, is to use the believers reference source: The Bible.

Therefore, I will be setting forth a proof that the christian god cannot exist in the sense spoken of in the bible...

first lets agree on some definitions...

Omnipotent: All Powerful

Omniscience: Universal or Complete knowledge.

I will be using the New International Version for my scripture quotes...

I also need to point out the fact that there are those who suggest the bible is to be taken literally... However, the new testament is written with the premise that the old testament is to be taken literally... Think of it this way... if Genesis was symbolic and not to be taken literally, Then Adam and Eve may be symbolic and original sin is out the window, meaning your entire religion is a sham... (Romans 5:19, "For just as through the disobedience of the one man the many were made sinners, so also through the obedience of the one man the many will be made righteous.")

Here are my scripture readings to validate the points I will be making in my proof:

Free Will:
Galations 5:13
You, my brothers, were called to be free. But do not use your freedom to indulge the sinful nature; rather, serve one another in love.

(Might be worthy to note at this point, that I discovered a contradiction in the bible while researching... see the galations 5 text above, and compare to Ephesians 1:11, "In him we were also chosen, having been predestined according to the plan of him who works out everything in conformity with the purpose of his will". Which appears to be stating we don't have free will, but are bound by the "grand scheme" that god has put together.)

Omnipotence:
Matthew 19:26
Jesus looked at them and said, "With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible."

Luke 1:37
For nothing is impossible with God.

Omniscience
Psalm 147:4-5
He telleth the number of the stars; he calleth them all by their names. Great is our Lord, and of great power: his understanding is infinite.

Taking these scriptures into account, consider the following statements:

1) If god is Omnipotent, can he make an object so heavy he cannot lift it himself?

2) Free will: If god is Omniscient, than he knows your future. If he knows your future, than it is already set in stone (if your future changed, god would cease to be omniscient). Therefore Free will cannot exist... Which can't be true, since the bible is the infallible word of god, and says we are created free.

3) If god is all knowing, and all powerful, and the creator of all... than he must know who is doomed to hell before they are born. Knowing who is destined for hell, how can he offer a free pass to heaven by believing in Jesus? Surely he knew what you would decide before you were given the option. Therefore, choosing to believe or not to believe is not your choice, but is predestined before you were born. Your ticket has already been written, so don't sweat it... right?

4) If god knows who is doomed to hell before their are born and allows them to be created anyway, than he is sentencing people to eternal damnation for sins never committed... If people are born without their futures etched in stone, than god cannot see the future.

5) If god is Omniscient, knowing what will happen in the future, than he can not use his omnipotence to change the outcome... As he is powerless to change the outcome of future events, he is not Omnipotent.

The conclusion of comparing these scriptures, versus some objective thinking leads to a number of conclusions:

1) God, bound by his own omniscience is completely powerless to do anything but watch events unfold.

2) Since I've established taking parts of the bible figuratively unravles the entire religion itself, the bible is not the true word of god, as god is perfect.

-or-

3) The Christian god can not exist the way he has been presented.

None of these conclusions look good for believers. It pretty much establishes that Christianity is wrong.

Don't feel left out quite yet mormons, jewish, muslim and hindus.... I hope to have enough time to take an objective look at your dogma and religious texts as well!

[edit on 26-11-2008 by nj2day]




posted on Nov, 26 2008 @ 10:36 PM
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reply to post by nj2day
 


I will be using the New International Version for my scripture quotes...


ohnoes. Your NIV positive, don't infect me!

Not bashing the thread, I quite like it, but the NIV thing is going to be your greatest source of criticism.

Otherwise S&F.

[edit on 26/11/2008 by Good Wolf]



posted on Nov, 26 2008 @ 10:39 PM
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I think you might be going somewhere with this, but it needs to be thought out more and more centrally focused.



posted on Nov, 26 2008 @ 10:40 PM
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reply to post by Good Wolf
 


meh, I cross referenced a few diff bible versions, and none of the ones I checked changed the meaning of the scripture in question.

I just used NIV because it appeared to be the most widely used



posted on Nov, 26 2008 @ 10:41 PM
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I can think of 2 possible criticisms:

This is proof that mMAn wrote the bible, not of God's nature

or

The God of the OT and NT, or at least the understanding therof or his approach towards humanity, is not the same entity.

I don't understand why we would use the Bible to disprove the christian god in the first place, though.



posted on Nov, 26 2008 @ 10:43 PM
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reply to post by blowfishdl
 


Thanks Blowfish
yah... I realize that it needs work... Work that i'm willing to do normally...

I'm just not certain if ATS is realistically worth that much of my time lol. I mean, lets face it... I'm beating a dead horse... Its the Religious that won't admit the horse is dead though...



posted on Nov, 26 2008 @ 10:45 PM
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reply to post by asmeone2
 


I'm only using it because the religious like to use those circular logic arguments...

we all know the type:

I know it is like x because the bible says so and we know the bible is true because god said so...

thats why like I suggested earlier, I know it could use some polish, and some more eloquence, but lets face it... it is worth it to spend that much time?



posted on Nov, 26 2008 @ 10:49 PM
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Originally posted by asmeone2
This is proof that mMAn wrote the bible, not of God's nature


bah, then they can explain to me which parts are errant, and which ones aren't... and if the accuracy of the bible is in question because it was written by man... than how can you use this document as a source for their proofs... etc etc...


The God of the OT and NT, or at least the understanding therof or his approach towards humanity, is not the same entity.


This would mean that they are worshiping two gods... instead of one...

or it would be a further paradox regarding omniscience.



posted on Nov, 26 2008 @ 10:49 PM
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reply to post by nj2day
 


I guess this is all just outside of our human understanding, who are we to question God?



posted on Nov, 26 2008 @ 10:51 PM
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It's perfectly fine to believe in a God. Until we die we will not- and cannot disprove it.



posted on Nov, 26 2008 @ 10:52 PM
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reply to post by asmeone2
 


how are we supposed to follow the word of god without asking questions?


"Let not your prophets that are in the midst of you, and your diviners deceive you... For they prophesy falsely to you in My name, and I have NOT sent them,said the Lord."

--Jeremiah 29:8-9



posted on Nov, 26 2008 @ 10:53 PM
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reply to post by blowfishdl
 


Ah, I didn't disprove a Supreme being...

I just proved the supreme being Christianity describes cannot exist.

There's a difference



posted on Nov, 26 2008 @ 10:54 PM
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Originally posted by nj2day

Originally posted by asmeone2

The God of the OT and NT, or at least the understanding therof or his approach towards humanity, is not the same entity.


This would mean that they are worshiping two gods... instead of one...

or it would be a further paradox regarding omniscience.


Furthermore, the Bible never explains which parts of the Jewish law are fulfilled and nullified by Jesus's dying, and which ones are supposed to continue.

You have verses like Paul's opinion that it is okay yo eat meat, but it doesn't say that the more detailed lecvitical laws have been lifted.

One of the big "plot holes" in Christianity, as I see it, (To the usual suspects: no, do not throw bible verses at me to 'explain' this, you already have tried.
) is why God waited so long to sent Jesus to die on the cross, instead of doing it the moment after Adam fell. Again that brings his omnipotence and omnepresence into question.

[edit on 26-11-2008 by asmeone2]



posted on Nov, 26 2008 @ 10:55 PM
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Originally posted by nj2day
reply to post by asmeone2
 


how are we supposed to follow the word of god without asking questions?


"Let not your prophets that are in the midst of you, and your diviners deceive you... For they prophesy falsely to you in My name, and I have NOT sent them,said the Lord."

--Jeremiah 29:8-9



That was a sarcastic dig at those who favor a 'literal' interpretation of the Bible, I'm all for questions.



posted on Nov, 26 2008 @ 10:57 PM
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reply to post by asmeone2
 


My question is more along the lines of why did he have to accept a blood sacrafice? and set up this elaborate scheme?

If he was truly omnipotent, why the crucifixion ritual, and not just a "meh, you're forgiven"

Original sin is the church trying to convince you that your soul is damned without their help...

its the control tactic.



posted on Nov, 26 2008 @ 10:59 PM
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reply to post by nj2day
 


Yes, another good question, I'm still waiting for someone to explain the physics behind Jesus's dying on the cross.


No offence to Jesus because I do like him, but a god that is supposed to be omnipotent yet has such a disconnect with his own creation that he needs a blood sacrifice to communicate with them doesn't seem like much of a god.

[edit on 26-11-2008 by asmeone2]



posted on Nov, 26 2008 @ 11:00 PM
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Originally posted by asmeone2
That was a sarcastic dig at those who favor a 'literal' interpretation of the Bible, I'm all for questions.


Wasn't intended to be... Instead I was trying to make the point that if there are all these rules about following false prophets, false idols, other gods... and they all result in dire consequences...

How is one supposed to objectively know if they are being told the true word of god?

Questions should be encouraged, as it is the best way for the sheep to stay with the flock...



posted on Nov, 26 2008 @ 11:01 PM
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reply to post by nj2day
 


Christianity obviously has contradictions in the Bible. We have to remember however if it's written by different people and compiled then obviously sometimes stories conflict. I believe the Bible is just a template and we fill it in ourselves with interpretation.



posted on Nov, 26 2008 @ 11:03 PM
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reply to post by blowfishdl
 


Than how do you pick which parts you take literally?

Doesn't this mean that the meaning could change over time as the moral zeitgeist shifts through generations?



posted on Nov, 26 2008 @ 11:04 PM
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I'll throw this in there as well.


Free will: If god is Omniscient, than he knows your future. If he knows your future, than it is already set in stone (if your future changed, god would cease to be omniscient). Therefore Free will cannot exist... Which can't be true, since the bible is the infallible word of god, and says we are created free.


With understanding of modern physics I would say that if God was omniscient, then he would know all my[singular] futures[plural]. The multiverse idea is that every instant there is a new universe with "time trousers" where the timeline splits.

With this idea it solves the contradiction because we do get to make decisions but God still knows all the possible outcomes from the choices we may make. However, the system is still rigged because we don't think about choices with a quantum mind, therefore our minds still make linear decisions which are entirely reactive.

Free will is still an illusion.





[edit on 26/11/2008 by Good Wolf]



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