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Recall that the Devil offered Jesus worldwide rulership in return for an act of worship. (Matthew 4:8, 9) This offer would have been meaningless if Satan were not real. Furthermore, Jesus did not question Satan’s claim to such impressive authority.
After Jesus rejected the temptations, the Devil “departed from him until another convenient time.” (Luke 4:13) Does Satan in this case seem like a quality of evil or, rather, a persistent, determined adversary?
Notice that “angels came and began to minister” to Jesus. (Matthew 4:11) Were those angels actual spirit persons, providing encouragement and practical assistance to Jesus? Clearly so. Why, then, should we assume that Satan was something other than an actual spirit being?
When you say that the questions were referring to Jesus own personal demons inside of him I cannot accept that because Jesus was made perfect and would not ever give into temptation.
When you say that the questions were referring to Jesus own personal demons inside of him I cannot accept that because Jesus was made perfect and would not ever give into temptation.
originally posted by: Akragon
a reply to: vincentdaniel7
Actually no they didn't argue at all...
There were three questions... all of which refer to his own personal demons in struggling with the fact that he was the son of God...
I just gave you a giant post on how we know that Satan is a real person both Old Testament and from
The references you used to satan were not mentioning a real entity... Job is a story book like I said, it has a moral to it, that being "trust in God"
And all I did to that scripture was add parentheses I did not change the words I don't know about your King James Version of the Bible but I know that when I study the Greek language it says evil ONE.
Why would it?
We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.
19 And we know that we are of God, and the whole world lieth in wickedness.
its a complete sentence... adding "One" at the end would just end up being nonsense...
All I did was put parentheses what is the crime in that?
Well you're adding something that isn't there, of course that also depends on the translation... its split down the middle for the most part... but saying the whole world lies in the wicked one personifies the idea of wickedness and makes said entity responsible for something that is completely on us... not a fallen angel here to tempt the world
No crime... Just unnecessary
KEEP YOUR SENSES, BE WATCHFUL!
YOUR ADVERSARY, THE DEVIL,
WALKS ABOUT LIKE A ROARING LION,
SEEKING TO DEVOUR SOMEONE.
Right... materialism
Which infests the world, and again is solely our issue... Not the devil
originally posted by: Akragon
a reply to: vincentdaniel7
the... Wicked... One... Is... US... NOT... an... Actual... entity...
LOL
Materialism, selfishness, deceit... its a condition of the heart...
One that does not have love In it...
originally posted by: Akragon
a reply to: vincentdaniel7
by the way
biblehub.com...
it doesn't say "wicked one"... specifically... it just means "bad" for the most part
so in the case we were speaking of the KJV would probably be more accurate in using "wickedness"
I agree that he in the background he influences the world,
originally posted by: Akragon
a reply to: vincentdaniel7
I agree that he in the background he influences the world,
Nooo man!! LOL
I didn't say that... I said the exact opposite
these are attributes of the human heart, not traits of Satan the Fallen angel...
When someone acts in selfishness, it is not Satan hanging around in the back ground... its said persons OWN desires getting the best of them...
AND WE HAVEN'T EVEN BEGIN TO ANALYZE (REVELATIONS to John) THAT TALKS ABOUT JESUS PHYSICALLY BATTLING WITH SATAN AND HURLING HIM AND HIS POSE
DOWN TO THE EARTH THAT WOULD TAKE MAYBE A WEEK OF THREADS ON THAT SUBJECT
originally posted by: Akragon
a reply to: vincentdaniel7
AND WE HAVEN'T EVEN BEGIN TO ANALYZE (REVELATIONS to John) THAT TALKS ABOUT JESUS PHYSICALLY BATTLING WITH SATAN AND HURLING HIM AND HIS POSE
DOWN TO THE EARTH THAT WOULD TAKE MAYBE A WEEK OF THREADS ON THAT SUBJECT
ye don't need to yell... really
Why would we analyze revelation?
The book wasn't even included in the original canon of the bible until 400 some odd years later... it was considered heretical... And apocalyptic writing was a trend in the early few centuries of the "Christianity"... it's vague for a reason, and basically designed to scare people... the revelation of John wasn't from Jesus... and highly likely it wasn't written by John in any case
originally posted by: Akragon
a reply to: vincentdaniel7
When you say that the questions were referring to Jesus own personal demons inside of him I cannot accept that because Jesus was made perfect and would not ever give into temptation.
When you say that the questions were referring to Jesus own personal demons inside of him I cannot accept that because Jesus was made perfect and would not ever give into temptation.
its a figure of speech man...
not real demons LOL
originally posted by: Akragon
a reply to: vincentdaniel7
AND WE HAVEN'T EVEN BEGIN TO ANALYZE (REVELATIONS to John) THAT TALKS ABOUT JESUS PHYSICALLY BATTLING WITH SATAN AND HURLING HIM AND HIS POSE
DOWN TO THE EARTH THAT WOULD TAKE MAYBE A WEEK OF THREADS ON THAT SUBJECT
ye don't need to yell... really
Why would we analyze revelation?
The book wasn't even included in the original canon of the bible until 400 some odd years later... it was considered heretical... And apocalyptic writing was a trend in the early few centuries of the "Christianity"... it's vague for a reason, and basically designed to scare people... the revelation of John wasn't from Jesus... and highly likely it wasn't written by John in any case
originally posted by: Akragon
a reply to: vincentdaniel7
This is my whole point though... he wasn't talking to something inside himself... He wasn't talking to anyone.
He was wasting away in the desert trying to figure himself out...
Lets look at the earliest version of the story...
11 And there came a voice from heaven, saying, Thou art my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.
12 And immediately the spirit driveth him into the wilderness.
13 And he was there in the wilderness forty days, tempted of Satan; and was with the wild beasts; and the angels ministered unto him
That's about it in Mark... the story clearly evolved because both of the other synoptic gospels rely heavily on Mark...
All it says is "tempted by satan" there was no conversation present...
in the Later versions (Mat/Luke) the writer gets a little more creative with the story...
Recall that the Devil offered Jesus worldwide rulership in return for an act of worship. (Matthew 4:8, 9) This offer would have been meaningless if Satan were not real. Furthermore, Jesus did not question Satan’s claim to such impressive authority.
He did say "this isn't his world"... Ironically enough the gnostic writers believed that the OT god was actually the devil and this was his world... similar to what Jesus said
After Jesus rejected the temptations, the Devil “departed from him until another convenient time.” (Luke 4:13) Does Satan in this case seem like a quality of evil or, rather, a persistent, determined adversary?
No... it sounds like the moment had passed
after he got over his issues in the wilderness free from distraction he returned to the world
Notice that “angels came and began to minister” to Jesus. (Matthew 4:11) Were those angels actual spirit persons, providing encouragement and practical assistance to Jesus? Clearly so. Why, then, should we assume that Satan was something other than an actual spirit being?
I don't really have any belief in angels either... inspiration from above perhaps, but I don't believe they go around whispering in peoples ears either... And why would they have to minister to Jesus in the first place, he is the son of God
Kinda sounds like narrative wouldn't you say? John was huge on his narrative
16. All Scripture is inspired of Godo and beneficial for teaching, for reproving, for setting things straight,a for disciplining in righteousness,
17. so that the man of God may be fully competent, completely equipped for every good work.
Including MATTHEW and LUKE
originally posted by: Akragon
a reply to: vincentdaniel7
Time for an Ironic interlude...
originally posted by: Akragon
a reply to: vincentdaniel7
16. All Scripture is inspired of Godo and beneficial for teaching, for reproving, for setting things straight,a for disciplining in righteousness,
17. so that the man of God may be fully competent, completely equipped for every good work.
Including MATTHEW and LUKE
Well first... Not a fan of Pauls writing...
And Paul isn't talking about books that didn't exist there bud... lol
In any case, IF all scripture is inspired... they would have left a stack of other books in the final edition of "the bible"
originally posted by: vincentdaniel7
originally posted by: Akragon
a reply to: vincentdaniel7
Time for an Ironic interlude...
THANKS FOR THAT
YOU ARE A PRITTY COOL GUY.