Christians, have you ever considered you might be on the wrong side?

originally posted by: Akragon
a reply to: vincentdaniel7

Jesus learned his love from the OT God Jehovah

no he did not...

Jesus and the Father are one... This does not mean one and the same, it means one mind... same motivation

The OT god was a killer... Jesus didn't harm a fly

He learned love from the Father... Not from the OT tyrant

Continue......

Thus, like God’s servants of the ancient past, those first-century Christians were to wait until God’s time to bring an end to wickedness and oppression. In the meantime, they were not authorized by God to take it upon themselves to engage in warfare against their enemies. Jesus Christ made this clear in his teachings. For example, he did not direct his followers to engage in warfare, but instead he told them: “Continue to love your enemies and to pray for those who persecute you.” (Matthew 5:44) Foretelling the time when first-century Jerusalem would be attacked by Roman armies, Jesus instructed his disciples, not to stay and fight, but to flee—which they did.—Luke 21:20, 21.

Additionally, under inspiration the apostle Paul wrote: “Do not avenge yourselves, . . . for it is written: ‘Vengeance is mine; I will repay,’ says Jehovah.” (Romans 12:19) Paul was quoting what God had stated centuries earlier as recorded atLeviticus 19:18  and Deuteronomy 32:35. As seen in the preceding article, one way God avenged his people in ancient times was by aiding them in waging war against their enemies. Thus Paul’s words show that God’s view of warfare had not changed. In the first century, God still viewed war as a legitimate way to avenge his servants and bring an end to various forms of oppression and wickedness. However, as was true in the past, God alone determined when such warfare was to take place and whowas to be involved.

Clearly, God did not authorize Christians in the first century to fight in wars. But what about today? Has God authorized any group of people today to engage in warfare? Or is now the time for God to step in and wage war in behalf of his servants? Just how does God view war today?

God’s View of War Today.......

Today people are being oppressed. Many repeatedly cry out to God for relief and wonder if relief will ever come. Does God hear their cries for help? And what about those who resort to warfare to bring an end to their oppression? Does God support their efforts, viewing their warfare as justifiable?

Armageddon will be the war to end all wars

First, take comfort in this truth: God sees the suffering in the world today, and he intends to do something about it. (Psalm 72:13, 14) In his Word, the Bible, God promises that those “who suffer tribulation will be given relief.” When? “At the revelation of the Lord Jesus from heaven with his powerful angels . . .
as he brings vengeance on those who do not know God and those who do not obey the good news about our Lord Jesus.” (2 Thessalonians 1:7, 8)

This revelation of Jesus will take place in the future in what the Bible calls “the war of the great day of God the Almighty,” also known as Armageddon.—Revelation 16:14, 16.

In that future war, God will use, not humans, but his Son, Jesus Christ, along with other powerful spirit creatures to wage war against the wicked. The heavenly forces will bring an end to all oppression.—Isaiah 11:4; Revelation 19:11-16.

To this day, God’s view of war has not changed. He still views war as a legitimate means of bringing an end to oppression and wickedness. But as has been true throughout history, it is God alone who rightly determines when such warfare is to take place and who is to be involved. As we have seen, God has already determined that the war to end wickedness and to avenge the oppressed is a  future war and that it will be fought by his Son, Jesus Christ. This means that the wars being fought in the earth today do not have God’s approval, no matter how noble the cause may appear to be.

To illustrate:

Imagine two siblings who begin fighting while their father is away. They temporarily stop fighting and call their father on the telephone. One sibling claims that the other started the fight, while the other claims that he was being mistreated. Both appeal to their father, each hoping for his support in the dispute. However, after hearing both sides, the father tells them to stop fighting and to wait for him to settle the matter when he gets home. For a while the two siblings wait. Soon, though, they are fighting again. When the father gets home, he is not pleased with either child and punishes them both for not obeying him.

Today, warring nations often appeal to God for support. But God does not take sides in today’s wars. Instead, in his Word, the Bible, he clearly states: “Return evil for evil to no one,” and, “Do not avenge yourselves.” (Romans 12:17, 19)

Moreover, he has made known that mankind should “wait patiently for him” to take action, which he will do at Armageddon. (Psalm 37:7, footnote)

When the nations fail to wait for God to act and instead resort to warfare, he views such wars as presumptuous acts of aggression that bring his displeasure. Thus, at Armageddon, God will express his indignation and settle the nations’ disputes once and for all by “bringing an end to wars throughout the earth.” (Psalm 46:9;Isaiah 34:2)

Indeed, Armageddon will be the war to end all wars.

The end of warfare is one of the many blessings of God’s Kingdom. Jesus spoke of that government in this well-known prayer: “Let your Kingdom come. Let your will take place, as in heaven, also on earth.” (Matthew 6:10)

Not only will God’s Kingdom eliminate all war but it will eliminate the root cause of war, wickedness.(Psalm 37:9, 10,14, 15)

Little wonder that Jesus’ followers eagerly look forward to the blessings of God’s Kingdom.—2 Peter 3:13.

Continue.......

a reply to: vincentdaniel7

Cripes man do you have essays on your laptop about this?

Who are you trying to convince honestly?

How do you not see the issue here... god hates violence, yet commands it... authorizes it, even destroys everything in many cases

Jesus is completely against it, and shows that by example... and attributes everything to a merciful loving Father

Even though said OT god claims to be merciful and loving... hes really not, and shows that BY EXAMLPLE

I realise you'll never understand... 30 years of trying to convince yourself of something will take a toll

so again, believe what you wish brother

originally posted by: Akragon
a reply to: vincentdaniel7

Jesus learned his love from the OT God Jehovah

no he did not...

Jesus and the Father are one... This does not mean one and the same, it means one mind... same motivation

The OT god was a killer... Jesus didn't harm a fly

He learned love from the Father... Not from the OT tyrant

Last one continue........

How long, though, must we wait for God’s Kingdom to bring an end to all suffering, oppression, and wickedness?

The fulfillment of Bible prophecies indicates that we are living in “the last days” of this system of things. (2 Timothy 3:1-5) *Soon, God’s Kingdom will bring an end to these last days with the war of Armageddon.

As noted earlier, those who perish in this final war will be those who refuse to “obey the good news about our Lord Jesus.” (2 Thessalonians 1:8)

But recall, God takes no pleasure in the death of anyone, including the wicked. (Ezekiel 33:11)

BECAUSE does not desire anyone to be destroyed” in this final war, he is now seeing to it that the good news about our Lord Jesus is being “preached in all the inhabited earth for a witness to all the nations” before the end comes. (2 Peter 3:8, 9; Matthew 24:14; 1 Timothy 2:3, 4)

Yes, by means of A global preaching work, like the one done in the first century, of JEHOVAH'S PEOPLE , CHRIST'S diligent and hardworking followers,

people today have an opportunity to get to know God, to obey the good news about Jesus, and to live to see the day when war will be no more.

originally posted by: Akragon
a reply to: vincentdaniel7

Cripes man do you have essays on your laptop about this?

Who are you trying to convince honestly?

How do you not see the issue here... god hates violence, yet commands it... authorizes it, even destroys everything in many cases

Jesus is completely against it, and shows that by example... and attributes everything to a merciful loving Father

Even though said OT god claims to be merciful and loving... hes really not, and shows that BY EXAMLPLE

I realise you'll never understand... 30 years of trying to convince yourself of something will take a toll

so again, believe what you wish brother

THIS IS THE WAY I SEE IT.

AS God protecting his children like you would if a pack of wolves invaded your home IT IS AS SIMPLE AS THAT

I DON'T UNDERSTAND WHY YOU CAN'T SEE IT

THE RESEARCH PROVES IT.

originally posted by: Akragon
a reply to: vincentdaniel7

Cripes man do you have essays on your laptop about this?

Who are you trying to convince honestly?

How do you not see the issue here... god hates violence, yet commands it... authorizes it, even destroys everything in many cases

Jesus is completely against it, and shows that by example... and attributes everything to a merciful loving Father

Even though said OT god claims to be merciful and loving... hes really not, and shows that BY EXAMLPLE

I realise you'll never understand... 30 years of trying to convince yourself of something will take a toll

so again, believe what you wish brother

I have been studying this for 31 years

NOT CONVINCING MYSELF BUT PROVING it to myself.

FOR I AM A skeptical man and I have to prove it to myself and I have changed my mind after hard work of CROSS EXAMINATION CROSS ANALYSIS and some good Old detective work.

a reply to: Akragon

What "law" was he speaking of?

It wasn't all that ambiguous to me. "Do not think I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets." Obviously in reference to pre-existing Law and people in the past.

I agree with you that YHWH, Yahweh, or whatever, is a monster. If such a god existed it would one malevolent tyrant.

I'm just not convinced Christ and his follower believed in a different god. *shrug*

a reply to: vincentdaniel7

It only Proves how YOU see it... nothing more

Whereas I see killing men, women, and children being commanded by something that is not God... attitudes that are more like a petty child, or a man then a God of any sort.

Its not protecting anything to kill a woman or a child, its just murder...

The research proves a blood thirsty tyrant that is glazed over by words and promises of kindness...

in the end, the OT is not words from God, but thoughts of men

a reply to: Lucid Lunacy

It wasn't all that ambiguous to me. "Do not think I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets." Obviously in reference to pre-existing Law and people in the past.

Did he not say "all the law and the prophets hang on two laws"?

I'm just not convinced Christ and his follower believed in a different god. *shrug*

Took me a while to figure it out myself actually lol

a reply to: vincentdaniel7

I have been studying this for 31 years

NOT CONVINCING MYSELF BUT PROVING it to myself.

FOR I AM A skeptical man and I have to prove it to myself and I have changed my mind after hard work of CROSS EXAMINATION CROSS ANALYSIS and some good Old detective work.

Good for you then my friend...

Regardless of our agreement on this I will give you one thing... You have not once resorted to personal attacks in this discussion... Nothing but respect on that account

You have found your belief, stick to it until a greater truth comes along...

we will have to just agree to disagree on this subject

originally posted by: Akragon
a reply to: vincentdaniel7

Cripes man do you have essays on your laptop about this?

Who are you trying to convince honestly?

How do you not see the issue here... god hates violence, yet commands it... authorizes it, even destroys everything in many cases

Jesus is completely against it, and shows that by example... and attributes everything to a merciful loving Father

Even though said OT god claims to be merciful and loving... hes really not, and shows that BY EXAMLPLE

I realise you'll never understand... 30 years of trying to convince yourself of something will take a toll

so again, believe what you wish brother

LOL,

YOU KNOW, I USED TO USE YOUR ARGUMENT ON THIS WHOLE THREAD TO DEFEAT THE CHRISTIANS,

WHEN FOR SEVEN YEARS I WAS ON THE SIDE OF SATAN,

that's why I said I changed my mind after cross-referencing, cross examination,

I now understand that the whole Bible is perfectly in line with each other so I don't understand why you cannot get this clear issue at least it's clear to me anyway sorry you don't see it because there is a great amount of value in learning from the Old Testament.

And now my life is way better than before,
BOTH ERA S OF MY LIFE .

a reply to: vincentdaniel7

Yes God is a murderer,even in your own example;

Then you see your children starting to die because of it, Now let's say you have the power to give your neighbors plenty of chances but after so many chances you have the power to destroy them because it is the only way to protect your children.

And no I would not kill the neighbors to protect the children regardless of what actions or lifestyles I find reprehensible. I would deal with the neighbors with out the use of coercion like any sane person. Instead I would leave them the # alone and possibly find other living arrangements. Also instead punishing the children to death I would show them(whether they agree with me or not is redundant) why I disagree with the actions/lifestyles of the neighbors and educate them about how to deal with these problems if they so choose. That's all you can really do as a parent.

To be overprotective over your children by killing the neighbors is to deprive the children of the proper tools and education to deal with the road ahead, it is also neglecting the fact that they are their own person,they will make mistakes regardless of their loyalty and their devotion. You will also create a state of codependency since they will never learn how to properly deal with their own problems instead you will always have your kids calling you for help over the smallest of issues.

To tell me that the God depicted in the Bible provides you with the necessary tools and education to deal with life's hardships is #ing laughable when he was the one who condemn his children to death and hardship to begin with. That's too bad that you couldn't deal with the consequences of your own actions as an atheist, but I guess now you can just blame all your problems on the devil right?

Edit; I also completely agree with Akragon, Jesus is clearly way more benevolent than God from the OT I'm still scratching my head on how you can convince yourself other wise....

a reply to: vincentdaniel7

So you used to be a Satanist or are you implying that being a non-believer of the Bible is siding with Satan?

a reply to: vincentdaniel7

The side of satan eh...

Except Satan doesn't actually exist... its nothing more then a personification of all of mans worst trates

The very idea that an angel can rebel against its creator, (the most powerful being in the universe) is just silly...

and we know absolutely nothing about said non existent entity in any case, theres very little written about it

Perhaps the belief in such things is the reason you just dismiss the obvious?

a reply to: Akragon

Did he not say "all the law and the prophets hang on two laws"?

The verses I posted said not to remove one letter from the Law. What does that mean to you then?

a reply to: NateTheAnimator

I also completely agree with Akragon, Jesus is clearly way more benevolent than God from the OT I'm still scratching my head on how you can convince yourself other wise

Thank you...


And You as well Lucid

originally posted by: Lucid Lunacy
a reply to: Akragon

Did he not say "all the law and the prophets hang on two laws"?

The verses I posted said not to remove one letter from the Law. What does that mean to you then?

Love God...

And Love Thy Neighbour as yourself... that is the law, and on which hang all the law and the prophets.

Don't take away from what is bolded... its not much but Jesus message was pretty simple

a reply to: Lucid Lunacy

Like many Christians he's implying the latter.

originally posted by: Akragon
a reply to: vincentdaniel7

It only Proves how YOU see it... nothing more

Whereas I see killing men, women, and children being commanded by something that is not God... attitudes that are more like a petty child, or a man then a God of any sort.

Its not protecting anything to kill a woman or a child, its just murder...

The research proves a blood thirsty tyrant that is glazed over by words and promises of kindness...

in the end, the OT is not words from God, but thoughts of men

Okay but you have to remember that he is ALL POWERFUL and he not only has the right to look into someone's future because he has a ingenious way of doing that, in his eyes and I can see where he's coming from,

A "MAMA" AND "PAPA" POISONOUS SNAKE GIVE BIRTH TO BABY POISONOUS SNAKE,"
'"A BABY ONE"

AND when children grow up under the control of their evil parents they also become tyrants and blood thirsty and murderers,

that is what I'm talking about when it comes to God protecting his children,

GOD IS NOT LIKE A MAN a man has no idea if that baby is going to become a murderer or bloodthirsty tyrant BUT GOD CAN READ THE HEARTS OF MEN .

HE can figure out scenarios and calculations BEYOND OUR IMAGINATION or comprehension,

So he not only has the right to get rid of his creation based off of cold hard calculations that we can't even begin to understand but he will do it to PROTECT HIS CHILDREN and if you can imagine that, if he did not control the evil population we may have already blown our sorry butts off this ROCK and out of EXISTENCE, EVEN before Christ came on the earth to save all mankind through His sacrifice,

FOR EXAMPLE; if he had not confuse the language we may have been driving cars a few years or a few decades before Christ came on earth, that's why I don't view it as murder I may not have the ability to figure out conditions environment a nations that teaches their children's one way of life, parents to teach their children to be evil,
Or to have evil views, in order to protect myself from them.

I may not be able to calculate that but I believe GOD CAN, and has done so in the Old Testament.

originally posted by: Akragon
a reply to: vincentdaniel7

The side of satan eh...

Except Satan doesn't actually exist... its nothing more then a personification of all of mans worst trates

The very idea that an angel can rebel against its creator, (the most powerful being in the universe) is just silly...

and we know absolutely nothing about said non existent entity in any case, theres very little written about it

Perhaps the belief in such things is the reason you just dismiss the obvious?

How can you say that when you have read that Jesus actually had a conversation with Satan I thought you were a strong advocate of the gospel.

a reply to: vincentdaniel7

How can you say that when you have read that Jesus actually had a conversation with Satan I thought you were a strong advocate of the gospel.

Yes... this is true

What actually happened in that scenario was Jesus fighting his inner desires, not talking and having a conversation with an actual entity.

He went to the wilderness to conquer said issues... with the power he actually had being the son of God he could have made bread for himself... but did not use said power for his own needs though he could have...

HE could have jumped off that cliff fully knowning that the Fathers angels would have caught him, but did not want to tempt the Father because he had a mission to accomplish...

HE could have been king over the whole material world and all things given to him... all that was needed was to worship the material... but he said back the hell up satan... I only have one God, and worship only him...

its really not complicated, and lets no credibility to the actual existence of said horned red guy