Sick and tired of claims Moon landings were a Hoax final proof!

reply to post by mockrock

"'Moon rock' given to Holland by Neil Armstrong and Buzz Aldrin is fake
A moon rock given to the Dutch prime minister by Apollo 11 astronauts in 1969 has turned out to be a fake.

A piece of moon rock was given during a goodwill tour by the three apollo 11 astronauts. Photo: Getty Images
12:12AM BST 29 Aug 2009Comment
Curators at Amsterdam's Rijksmuseum, where the rock has attracted tens of thousands of visitors each year, discovered that the "lunar rock", valued at £308,000, was in fact petrified wood. """"

www.telegraph.co.uk...

Perhaps instead of repeating false information, it would be a good idea to get all the facts straight.....

The actual truth regarding that incident:

The Apollo 11 crew were on a goodwill tour, and on their visit to the Netherlands the AMERICAN AMBASSADOR to the country presented a gift of a piece of petrified wood to the then Prime Minister. THEY knew it was petrified wood, and the PM knew it was petrified wood. Such trinkets are common in the American Southwest, and not usually found many places elsewhere on Earth. So, it was merely a representative gift from the country of the United States, not ever presented as a piece of the Moon!

None of the actual Lunar samples that were gifted to foreign nations and individuals were anywhere near the size of that fist-sized rock!

The actual Lunar gifts were small grains of sand, and were encased in Lucite plastic, and mounted on commemorative plaques.

In November 1969, then-U.S. President Richard Nixon requested that NASA create approximately 250 displays containing lunar surface material and the flags of 135 nations, U.S. possessions and states.

Each presentation included 0.05 grams of Apollo 11 moon dust, in the form of four small pieces encased in an acrylic button, as well as the flag of the recipient nation or state, also flown on the first manned lunar landing mission.

The displays that were presented to foreign heads of state included the inscription:
Presented to the People of ____________ by Richard Nixon, President of the United States of America.

This Flag of Your Nation was Carried to the Moon and Back by Apollo 11 and This Fragment of the Moon's Surface was Brought to Earth by the Crew of That First Manned Lunar Landing.

www.collectspace.com...


Also, the actual story HERE:

.....The museum acquired the rock after the death of former Prime Minister Willem Drees in 1988. Drees received it as a private gift on Oct. 9, 1969, from then-U.S. ambassador J. William Middendorf during a visit by the three Apollo 11 astronauts, part of their "Giant Leap" goodwill tour after the first moon landing.

Middendorf, who lives in Rhode Island, told Dutch broadcaster NOS news that he had gotten the rock from the U.S. State Department, but couldn't recall the exact details.

"I do remember that (Drees) was very interested in the little piece of stone," the NOS quoted Middendorf as saying. "But that it's not real, I don't know anything about that."

www.usatoday.com...

reply to post by ProudBird


But you present news articles too, why are yours valid and the one I present false information.. ?

And you have to think about your source.. using Bias U.S mainstream media. If anything your argument is that neither news articles can be trusted, which also suggest we shouldn't trust mainstream sources for information on the moon landings either.. If anything you have proven the only important thing is perception.

The American taxpayers might also be interested in how this moon rock keeps going missing.. Surely the cost of attaining and the scientific interest means it should be looked after.

www.dailymail.co.uk...

"Mr Roberts believes that when Clinton lost his bid for re-election in 1980, everything got packed up and the plaque and its rock from outer space were misplaced."

reply to post by mockrock


The U.S government has made it impossible for America to win the space race, so China will get the honor.. If the game had been played fairly Russia would have not completed a moon landing, NASA could have invested in safe steady technological progress to attain the goal.. But instead it was decided to cheat the American people and the world. This worked a little too well and gave the green card for any ridiculous scheme to cement America's place as the dominant superpower.. and now it is all unraveling.

Perhaps if the money wasted by NASA had been invested in the American people, improving education in poor neighborhoods and scholarship funding you might have found the 'right stuff' to get to the moon by now..

Yes it is almost too big to comprehend the landings were faked but we all need to get used to this idea, it is the only way the western world will catch up with China.

reply to post by mockrock

The U.S government has made it impossible for America to win the space race,

The "space race" ended when America landed men on the Moon. Since then, the trend has been towards international co-operation. The Chinese have been showing off lately because they have a chip on their shoulder.

Originally posted by mockrock
reply to post by mockrock

 

But instead it was decided to cheat the American people and the world. This worked a little too well and gave the green card for any ridiculous scheme to cement America's place as the dominant superpower.. and now it is all unraveling.

This is a bold statement. Who decided to "cheat the American people"? Can you give your source and/or reference to back this statement? Can you direct us to any government agency, documents, or creditable eye witness that has information concerning a planned deception of this magnatude?

To see an anomaly, such as a dustless LM landing gear foot, does not give credence to your statement. With some simple physics and an eighth grade level explanation, it has been shown that a dustless LM foot is correct.

reply to post by mockrock


Many of the gifted samples have gone missing. (note,again from the links above.....they were all about 0.05 grams and encased in Lucite. In other words, very small)

In this case:

The American taxpayers might also be interested in how this moon rock keeps going missing.. Surely the cost of attaining and the scientific interest means it should be looked after.

www.dailymail.co.uk...

"Mr Roberts believes that when Clinton lost his bid for re-election in 1980, everything got packed up and the plaque and its rock from outer space were misplaced."

The implications are clear. Bill Clinton, as Governor of Arkansas, decided to personally keep the sample that was gifted to his state during his term......after his term ended, instead of leaving it in the care of the state which is the more proper course of action. (Or, it was packed into his belongings by assistants, unbeknownst to him...... so we cannot yet prove, nor know, of his intent to "steal" it).

Each of the 50 states received such gifts, after Apollo 17.

And, as to the news articles I linked being "better" than yours....sometimes there are media reports that are more credible than others, and that give a more complete story. Also, it is about the reading comprehension involved, too. Some people only get out of a media story what their bias will let them see........

reply to post by ProudBird


But this is reason to be excited! The real space race has only just begun ! It's not all bad news.. Containing the truth that it was a hoax must be like bailing the water from a sinking ship !

I can't think of a more absurd job.. Must be easier now Google are on board too.

A few years ago if you typed moon hoax you would get all the moon hoax sites.. these days you have pages of debunking sites which have had expensive SEO to keep them up the organic search rankings.. But the percentage of people in the general population who now understand it was a hoax is growing.

How long will you keep bailing? Better to confront it and join the space race to get to the moon, come clean and hope the American people are in a forgiving mood.

"H. J. P. Arnold is an astronomer and keen photographer, an expert on space and astrophotography and was the assistant to the Managing Director at Kodak during the Apollo years. He has authored many space photography books. He comments that the film that was supplied by Kodak for the missions was essentially the same as used here on Earth. it was ektachrome 64 ASA or ISO as it is called today. He has commented that you would expect to see some small dots on the films where a high velocity nuclear particle had hit the film, however no evidence of this whatsoever has come forward. The only thing that would protect the film from this damage would be a thick layer of lead around the camera casing, which according to Hasselblad was not used. Let's also remember that the films were changed whilst outside on the Moon's surface and not in a controlled environment."


Great article here, wraps up the debate

engforum.pravda.ru.../topic/171421-apollo-11-landing-fake-of-century/


Will the U.S offer to 'help' China with it's moon landing.. then upon landing on the moon the U.S astronaut handcuffs the Chinese astronaut to the ladder.. The American astronaut leaps of the ladder and in true NASA style finally the U.S becomes the first nation to get a man on the moon..!

reply to post by mockrock


Utter nonsense in that blog article:

Great article here, wraps up the debate

engforum.pravda.ru.../topic/171421-apollo-11-landing-fake-of-century/

Only had to see it, also, refer to Bill Kaysing (who was not all that educated in the areas he needed to be, in order to pontificate about them). He was not an engineer, nor a scientist.

Second name that pops out is David Percy, alleged "photographic expert". He has also been thoroughly discredited, and I don't know what he's doing today, but he should be embarrassed at all the asertions he's made in the past.

He is "famous" for thinking that the communications antenna on top of the Astronauts' PLSS back-packs were "supporting wires".......(they were shiny metal, flat and thin....about 3/8 inches wide and 12 inches long when erected, and would catch the sunlight and flash in the videos).

He also has absolutely no comprehension of the physics of the reduced Lunar gravity, and the motions due to the lower acceleration of that gravity field. He made the biggest boneheaded mistake claiming that the EVA video was "slowed down"!! David Percy made a modern fool of himself, at every turn. Bill Kaysing is still the bigger fool, however.

reply to post by ProudBird


It's not nice to speak ill of the dead, even if he had been mistaken he was never a bad man.. and deserves some respect. Poor form to talk like that

""My dad loved hot springs with a passion—he was always searching out new hot springs particularly in Nevada…he loved the desert for its peacefulness and beauty. One day he found a large “hot” lake in the middle of the Nevada desert— it was a wonderful find for someone devoted to relaxing in warm water and the fact that is was located in “the middle of nowhere” made it that much more amazing to my dad…for as much as he loved people, he also loved solitude.""

Does this sound like a fame hungry man driven by bitterness..

Be respectful.

billkaysing.com...

Originally posted by mockrock
Can we move this on to who will be the first to land man on the Moon?

China, Russia or the U.S

If Russia and China cooperate it will be hard for the U.S to win the race.. It will be hard to sell to the American public, when the only way to do so it to reveal the original hoax! Then trust in Nasa will be nil and it could leave the U.S paralyzed in the space race.

Originally posted by mockrock
No that's been settled good sir/madam, did you miss it.. ? No dust No moon landing. To be fair the O.P settle that..

OP is trolling his own thread. He's obviously baiting others (and specifically Americans) for whatever reasons. I could not care any less, but whatever gets your mockrocks off.

While I am glad he is out of the doomsday prophecy business after his crash-n-burn 2005 YU55 hysteria, I had hoped he was serious about his promise to seek out psychiatric assistance.

Originally posted by mockrock
reply to post by ProudBird

 

It's not nice to speak ill of the dead, even if he had been mistaken he was never a bad man.. and deserves some respect. Poor form to talk like that

""My dad loved hot springs with a passion—he was always searching out new hot springs particularly in Nevada…he loved the desert for its peacefulness and beauty. One day he found a large “hot” lake in the middle of the Nevada desert— it was a wonderful find for someone devoted to relaxing in warm water and the fact that is was located in “the middle of nowhere” made it that much more amazing to my dad…for as much as he loved people, he also loved solitude.""

Does this sound like a fame hungry man driven by bitterness..

Be respectful.

billkaysing.com...

It's one thing to respect the life of a man, it's quite another to respect his lies. Real science is constantly sent backwards by those who claim to understand it functions, when in fact, they do not.

reply to post by NuminousCosmos


But he was right

All the evidence is here www.aulis.com...

The guy was a hero ! We just don't know it yet..

reply to post by mockrock

But he was right........

www.aulis.com...

The "aulis" website (and Jack White) is nothing more than the continuing badly-done rantings of the photographs being somehow "wrong".

Every claim in that website can be directly refuted with proper documentation, science and education.

Just a few (old, archived) discussion points

and about that missing dust in the O.P..

"During the Apollo missions the LM approached and landed at a descending angle, and not straight down. The descent engine had sufficient energy to raise dust at 100 feet, and dust kick up from the LM engine was commented on by the Apollo crew at 40 feet. Deep dust was present near and around the landing site."


www.aulis.com...


I guess this thread is settled.

Originally posted by mockrock

Originally posted by Gibborium

Originally posted by mockrock
Can we move this on to who will be the first to land man on the Moon?

China, Russia or the U.S

If Russia and China cooperate it will be hard for the U.S to win the race.. It will be hard to sell to the American public, when the only way to do so it to reveal the original hoax! Then trust in Nasa will be nil and it could leave the U.S paralyzed in the space race.

Are we now deviating from the OP? What happened to the discussion of the lack of moon dust on the LM's landing feet? I sense that perhaps you have failed to prove your point and are trying to lead your own post off topic for lack of evidence to prove your claim.

No that's been settled good sir/madam, did you miss it.. ? No dust No moon landing. To be fair the O.P settle that.. and the Thread title invites discussion on all aspects of the final proof which include China's efforts to settle the debate by landing on the moon..

edit on 13-11-2011 by mockrock because: (no reason given)

A bit strange that I am the one you posted this to and yet you still have not proven anything with the dustless LM's landing gear. You just keep repeating yourself, "No dust No moon landing".

But it has been shown through out this thread, that no dust on the LM's landing gear is correct. You have not given any counter evidence other than to repeat your rhetoric.

Originally posted by Gibborium

Originally posted by mockrock

Originally posted by Gibborium

Originally posted by mockrock
Can we move this on to who will be the first to land man on the Moon?

China, Russia or the U.S

If Russia and China cooperate it will be hard for the U.S to win the race.. It will be hard to sell to the American public, when the only way to do so it to reveal the original hoax! Then trust in Nasa will be nil and it could leave the U.S paralyzed in the space race.

Are we now deviating from the OP? What happened to the discussion of the lack of moon dust on the LM's landing feet? I sense that perhaps you have failed to prove your point and are trying to lead your own post off topic for lack of evidence to prove your claim.

No that's been settled good sir/madam, did you miss it.. ? No dust No moon landing. To be fair the O.P settle that.. and the Thread title invites discussion on all aspects of the final proof which include China's efforts to settle the debate by landing on the moon..

edit on 13-11-2011 by mockrock because: (no reason given)

A bit strange that I am the one you posted this to and yet you still have not proven anything with the dustless LM's landing gear. You just keep repeating yourself, "No dust No moon landing".

But it has been shown through out this thread, that no dust on the LM's landing gear is correct. You have not given any counter evidence other than to repeat your rhetoric.

You ask so I deliver.. read tests of how much dust was produced during a NASA test producing less thrust than the Lunar Lander.
""Recall Aldrin’s comments during Apollo 11 landing: “40 feet, down 2 1/2. Picking up some dust". The camera showed moving dust at an altitude of 40 or more feet, which demonstrated that the thrust plume from the LM decent engine was not dispersing laterally into a vacuum.""

www.aulis.com...

Wasn't it Johnnie Cochran who said:

Without the lunar dust, this hoax you cannot bust.

Originally posted by mockrock
reply to post by NuminousCosmos

 

But he was right

All the evidence is here www.aulis.com...

The guy was a hero ! We just don't know it yet..

I less than one hour, I took a random "proof" from his webpage and did a very basic analysis. He claims that the image here shows a reflection of the US flag from the right hand decent window. This image was taken by Neil Armstrong as Buzz Aldrin prepares to descend the ladder to the surface:



However, by going over the site map of Tranquility Base, you can see that the flag is on the left side of the lander, in an angle such that it would be impossible to reflect the way indicated.



Do you see? I didn't even have to use science, just deductive logic.

reply to post by NuminousCosmos


Yes......the top image (used by "aulis") is AS11-40-5862.

Here is the immediate next photo in the film magazine, #5863:



Oh yes, and here is the source.

reply to post by ProudBird


I am going to leave it here.

I retract all statements on the Apollo Hoax, it was the greatest achievement of mankind.

The evidence does suggest we got there, it is easy to fall into the trap of conspiracy theories.