Subject: No one can sell any ammunition after June 30, 2009

Originally posted by wonderworld
***snip***
I take it you haven’t read the entire thread or you would know coding is only part of it. Once again on coded ammo……No one including the FEDS have a right to know how much of which caliper I own.
***snip***

First of all I'm not angry - I'm more puzzled about the intensity of some of the posts (yours included).

While you keep in saying - with venom - that no one has a right to know what caplipher yiou have in your house please enlighten me:

WHY can't the goverment know what calipher you have?

Have you got a stash of illegal weapons? Have you got weapons for which you do not have permits?
If not, WHY is it bad.

I must admit that living in paradise as I obviously do, it it very difficult to get my head around some of the posts. I try to understand this and perhaps my post offend you because we (non americans) simply cannot understand why it is important for the whole population to own and carry guns.

Sometimes we think that if you didn't own so many guns then you wouldn't have so much and so violent a crime situation.

Maybe we are wrong, but at least we ask questions to get answers that will help us understand your situation.

Bashing our heads with the second amendment doesn't do it for us. We know that that amandment was made for a reason and because of the political situation in your nation AT THAT TIME. I suspect someone wanted to be able to strike back if a counter revolution broke out. Now we face the posibility of a new revolution if you read all the different threads about the situation in the US.

Had the Fathers of your Nation really thought it was a good idea that the common citizen should carry guns or even own guns it wouldn't be in an amendment, it would be right in there with the good stuff.

gertrude get the guillotine ready,its time.
300,000,000 americans,with an army.they'll never fire on us
obama is trying as hard as he can to destroy the country.how long must we wait? he has an agenda. how can anyone with an IQ of 50 miss this fact.

lets just give them all our ammunition. just like us,they won't even have to beg for it.

it may already too late,after the 1.3 trillion dollars wqe loaned to ourselves last week.
this maneuver has never worked since the beginning of recorded history.
if theres no agenda,i'll eat every chair in congress.

REMEMBER...YOU ARE NOT ALONE
AND TAKING YOUR CHILDREN IS FASCIST. THERES NO OTHER WAY TO LOOK AT IT.

reply to post by ANNED


It’s not the ammo so much as the gun that it was fired from. . "Toolmarks" are created on cartridge cases and bullets when a gun is fired -- for example, when a bullet scrapes against grooves on the inside of the gun barrel, or when high gas pressure forces the walls of a cartridge case against the gun's firing chamber.

These toolmarks have long been used to help solve crimes -- for example, a firearms examiner might compare a crime-scene bullet to one test-fired from a suspect's gun to determine whether the marks match. Since the 1980s, computerized imaging has allowed law enforcement agencies to input toolmark images in databases of crime-related ballistic evidence and search for images of bullets or cases with similar marks.

Microstamping technology uses a laser to cut a pattern or code into the head of a firing pin or another internal surface. The method is similar to that used to engrave codes on computer chips. When the trigger is pulled, the firing pin hits the cartridge case or primer and stamps the code onto it.

In principle, the spent cartridge can then be matched to a specific gun.
In October 2007, Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger signed into law AB 1471, requiring that all new models of semiautomatic pistols sold in California on or after Jan. 1, 2010, be engraved in two or more places with an identifying code that is transferred to the cartridge case on firing. Similar legislation has been proposed in other states and at the federal level.

In March 2008, a report from the National Research Council, part of the National Academies of Science, described microstamping as a "promising" approach and called for more in-depth studies on the durability of microstamped marks under different firing conditions.

You are right NOTHING will stop the criminals. This is just another means of gun control.



[edit on 22-3-2009 by wonderworld]

Imortant youtube video Buy ammo now! Matrial law, etc.

reply to post by wonderworld

I dont post much because you guys pretty much beat me to what I have to say.
I will say this. I read most of the thread and never saw one mention that this legislation is for the individual states and it started before Pres. Obama even came into office. The posts that state that this is all Obama's plan could be considered hogwash.
But I do understand the concern. The fact is that this legislation seems to be on the state level and has been pretty unsuccessful so far. With that in mind, get involved personally to make sure none of this happens. I dont mean go and take care of them with your weapons, I mean understand your state and its proposed laws and become active. Inform yourself with ACTUAL information and not speculation. Sure, many can say it starts with the states and goes to federal level from there but this thing has done nothing but fill the NRA and ammo manufacturer's coffers. If anything, they are banking on this legislation they know will not pass and may even support its conception because they know it will make them more money.
We have all seen that the bottom line in the US is MONEY and the big businesses and powerful men who get paid off by them manipulate you into their business model no matter what it takes. In this case it is fear that you will have no more ammo while they get their pockets lined with a lot of cash.
Bottom line, put the blame where it should be. THE STATES and the politicians in those states that conceive this sort of crap. Dont vote those clowns back in office either. Blaming Obama clearly shows your bias against him when he has nothing to do with this. YET!!!! LOL
Like I said I dont post much but I just wanted to put that out there so please be easy on me. Understand that I am for all of our existing rights and respect all persons opinions.


[edit on 22-3-2009 by hybridx]

reply to post by hybridx


Hi, you should post more often. It's nice to get others opinions and you have some valid concerns Thanks for posting.

You are right, this didn’t start out with Obama but with the Dem’s now in control of the house and senate it may become legislative law. It already is, in part in California.

You say “Blaming Obama clearly shows your bias against him when he has nothing to do with this.” I beg to differ but will go will go easy on you promise. Read below.

FACT: Barack Obama voted against the confirmation of 2 of the 5 Justices that affirmed an individual right to keep and bear arms.

FACT: Barack Obama voted to allow reckless lawsuits designed to bankrupt the firearms industry.

FACT: Barack Obama wants to re-impose the failed and discredited Clinton Gun Ban.

FACT: Barack Obama voted to ban almost all rifle ammunition commonly used for hunting and sport shooting.

FACT: Barack Obama has endorsed a 500% increase in the federal excise tax on firearms and ammunition.

FACT: Barack Obama has endorsed a complete ban on handgun ownership.

FACT: Barack Obama supports local gun bans in Chicago, Washington, D.C., and other cities.

FACT: Barack Obama voted to uphold local gun bans and the criminal prosecution of people
who use firearms in self-defense.

FACT: Barack Obama supports gun owner licensing and gun registration.

FACT: Barack Obama refused to sign a friend-of-the-court Brief in support of individual Second Amendment rights in the Heller case.

FACT: Barack Obama opposes Right to Carry laws.

FACT: Barack Obama was a member of the Board of Directors of the Joyce Foundation, the leading source of funds for anti-gun organizations and “research.”

FACT: Barack Obama supported a proposal to ban gun stores within 5 miles of a school or park, which would eliminate almost every gun store in America.

FACT: Barack Obama voted not to notify gun owners when the state of Illinois did records searches on them.

FACT: Barack Obama voted against a measure to lower the Firearms Owners Identification card age minimum from 21 to 18, a measure designed to assist young people in the military.

FACT: Barack Obama favors a ban on standard capacity magazines.

FACT: Barack Obama supports mandatory micro-stamping.

No I dont put the entire blame on Obama but his ideas are what scares me on gun control. He didnt worry me much when he was in the Senate. Now he is President.


[edit on 22-3-2009 by wonderworld]

reply to post by wonderworld

Why is everyone so scared?
Your points are valid and I respectfully agree that some are things to be concerned about. But you gotta give some valid sources for each that you post. Not sayin you arent telling the truth, just want to be more informed personally. I dont have a problem disagreeing with Obama's policies or the way he votes but I believe there are reasons for everything.

reply to post by HolgerTheDane


I understand your view of the US, as I have said earlier it’s a cultural difference. You say “I try to understand this and perhaps my post offend you because we (non americans) simply cannot understand why it is important for the whole population to own and carry guns and Sometimes we think that if you didn't own so many guns then you wouldn't have so much and so violent a crime situation.”

I feel you are missing out. It’s quite a hobby to collect guns. They are filled with Historic stories. Some only go target practicing, for both safety and as a source of fun and entertainment, others have guns to protect their families or to hunt food.

It’s not a barbaric Country by any sense of the word. We don’t base our Freedoms here on gun ownership. We have a great country.

I do enjoy my privacy on my ammo. I’m basically against all Federal databases requiring ID and registration.

You may not want to bash your head over the 2nd amendment but most US citizens do. We are slowly losing our rights little by little and we are kind of fond of our Constitution.

American’s get very upset when these rights are threatened or infringe things upon us that are considered illegal.

I may seem like a anti-government radical, however we live in the great Free Country. The best in my opinion. Most are simply concerned it is changing.

I personally don’t think this is all about America. Soon things will change to a global dictatorship. I expect between now and 2011 you will come to see what I mean.

I appreciate your questions and hope I answered most of them.

reply to post by hybridx


Well hybridx,

We are not scared. Why do you think that? We are sometimes angry at the Audacity of such a bill and how the negative consequences infringe upon our rights.

Many are simply preparing, however most have already done so. Others are hitting the store to stock up on ammo.

Good debates are not to be percieved as fear. You wont see many scared gun owners on here. Some may fear Obama for several reasons but that's not the topic of this discussion.

reply to post by wonderworld
Well you said.
"No I dont put the entire blame on Obama but his ideas are what scares me on gun control. He didnt worry me much when he was in the Senate. Now he is President."
you saying his ideas are scary was the reason for my question.
You said no one was scared. To me that is cool if you arent but it seems like the term "I am scared" "I am worried about..." ""The most frightening thing is..." "what terrifies me is...." is what the problem is.
Too many people use terms like that without realizing they actually do which I believe you just did. That can become a problem when we all get scared about things and just talk about it and do nothing. Then the "I am scared of" thing gets passed to others who only know a little about what is going on creating an atmosphere of fear without really knowing what is true.
Point is people need to know and unfortunately this website is not the most commonly used place to get info. I just get really tired of hearing how people are so scared of the evil Obama. Dont be scared be informed and do something, which I see you doing. But to some, when being scared is mentioned they pass that fear on to others....


[edit on 22-3-2009 by hybridx]

reply to post by hybridx


Thank for the input. Let me re-word that. I'll be both mad and scared if this bill passed.

Not to say I am never scared. Visiting some other threads today has caused me to say "Now that is scary"

Thank you for being concerned. At the momment I am very happy and hope the same for you!

Well this is a good thing. It would be much better if no one had guns. They cause nothing but trouble

reply to post by wonderworld

Good enough for me.
I just wish there were more people out there that didnt sling the fear around so loosely.
Unfortunately though the actions of the few affect the many and people that are irresponsible with firearms infringe on our rights.
If there were more focus on the proper keeping and securing of them there would be less problems in my opinion.
I dont want my right taken away at all but the regulation is a result of irresponsibility. In that, I am responsible enough to secure ammo and weapons but others have not been and that sucks. People who sell guns for quick cash or do not properly secure ammo or firearms are to blame for this. I have encountered excuses like "I cant keep track of every round that I have" or "what happens if I am not home?" You can keep track of every round you have but that would be inconvenient to some, thus becoming a problem. Ammunition and weapon security is just as important as the right to bear because it ensures that you keep that right. If you have large stores of ammo YOU SHOULD keep track of every round or you dont deserve that right to own. Rounds arent like change in the couch that can be ignored and unfortunately some people have been burned (or killed) by this irresponsibility. Accountabilty and responsibility has lead us to some or most of these rash decisions on gun laws.
The bad part is some have been affected in different ways. The solution is to not get radical or divide. There has to be compromise and if everyone could come to the table and find good middle ground maybe then something could be accomplished and preserve our rights. Unfortunately fear and loathing of someone elses ideas have become more common instead of trying to find that middle ground.
I think through a word of mouth type thing (dare I say grassroots) people could unite and get some good ideas from both sides of the issue wthout having to pump money into the NRA or whatever organization you believe in. When you start involving money that is when you gotta start denying ignorance, intolerance, and fear.

[edit on 22-3-2009 by hybridx]

Originally posted by HolgerTheDane

Had the Fathers of your Nation really thought it was a good idea that the common citizen should carry guns or even own guns it wouldn't be in an amendment, it would be right in there with the good stuff.

Its our right to bear arms, its the last line of defense for the public, its called the militia and in the days of the revolutionary war they were the backbone of how we survived. I might also remind you that because it is a right given by the constitution one way or another its not up for debate in so far as those who take the constitutional right to own and bear arms in the appropriate circumstance seriously. It is NO WHERE in the constitution that any impedance on that is fine with enough explanation. So why should we cater to those trying to bully us into giving them the information we don't have to give them, just because they trump up so card that they don't even care about, that they are just using as an ends to a means? they don't care about safety, they want our info and I for one think they do not need it.

Originally posted by wonderworld
reply to post by hybridx

 

Thank for the input. Let me re-word that. I'll be both mad and scared if this bill passed.

Not to say I am never scared. Visiting some other threads today has caused me to say "Now that is scary"

Thank you for being concerned. At the momment I am very happy and hope the same for you!

Care to share which threads jarred you most?

My wife once wrote a paper on Gun Control and found some very interesting statistics that supported the idea that in some cities where being able to lawfully own and carry a concealed weapon allowed crime drastically reduced rates of occurrence, as would be robbers and thiefs and such couldn't rely on being able to conduct their crime without threat of the victim being equally armed and as such not being so easy a target....Responsible ownership is important and pivotal to understanding that as the saying goes, guns don't kill people, people do.I only wish I could find her sources (it was several years back now, she did it for a paper she was working on in college.) Sorry folks but the relevance holds true I think.

On the assumption that the political "system" is more then reality television, theres a very simple question that I haven't seen asked yet.

Who would profit? The only way that attempting to protest this bill ( Which the OP believes would be effective ) would work is if this is simply profit mongering. However, I cannot think of a party or group who would derive profits of any kind from this bill, which makes the "doing it for profit" theory implausible. Which leads to there being a full blown conspiracy to disarm America.

In which case, the figures we see in Washington have little to do with the larger trends. On the "arching conspiracy" line of thought, attempting to say that it is due to Obama, congress, the senate, or any other political body or figure is incompatible.

All sorts of ideas for new laws get tossed around. This one won't fly.

Originally posted by Averysmallfoxx

Originally posted by HolgerTheDane

Had the Fathers of your Nation really thought it was a good idea that the common citizen should carry guns or even own guns it wouldn't be in an amendment, it would be right in there with the good stuff.

Its our right to bear arms, its the last line of defense for the public, its called the militia and in the days of the revolutionary war they were the backbone of how we survived. I might also remind you that because it is a right given by the constitution one way or another its not up for debate in so far as those who take the constitutional right to own and bear arms in the appropriate circumstance seriously. It is NO WHERE in the constitution that any impedance on that is fine with enough explanation. So why should we cater to those trying to bully us into giving them the information we don't have to give them, just because they trump up so card that they don't even care about, that they are just using as an ends to a means? they don't care about safety, they want our info and I for one think they do not need it.

Ok well even though I am for the right to bear (not "bare" like I have read too many times) I disagree with a little bit of what you said. There are parts of the constitution which have been amended and even laws have had to be made to keep these rights safe. Cry "fire" in a crowded theater and you have just given up your right to free speech for example. I am sure there are many others but that is the easiest and least debatable one I can think of off the top of my head and it actually has just as much importance as the right to bear.
With that in mind, I will get to the point that you brought up that the right to bear is something that is allowed and I am all for it. But just because regulations of that right are not in the constitution does not mean they are unconstitutional. In addition, any impedence of that right generally has to do with a person's character more than anything. That is why they need this information. It isnt some scheme to take them all away. They could do that if they wanted to by going around to EVERYONE's home and searching it up and down if they really wanted to. It certainly isnt any way to get your info because they have that already and the states have made it to where they are mostly on a national network that shares information anyway. Bottom line to me is to ensure that the new weapon sales are by responsible citizens who have done nothing to void the right to carry legally in my opinion.
Not trying to flame just sayin.

reply to post by Averysmallfoxx


Hey, I like your comment "they don't care about safety, they want our info and I for one think they do not need it."

As youve noticed some think it's only about coding or guns arent needed in our country.

I'm with you on the Federal database being a problem.