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Subject: No one can sell any ammunition after June 30, 2009

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posted on Mar, 23 2009 @ 10:15 AM
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reply to post by TheDustman
 


That is a good question about “who will profit”

Maybe DOD. If it’s true that we must destroy all uncoded ammo by 2011, I would assume there would be an increase of coded ammo sales, that’s another possible profit. The Feds will profit from the tax increase.

How nice, that Obama will create new jobs for people in charge of running such a huge database.

It will be the gun owners who will take it up the tail pipe.




posted on Mar, 23 2009 @ 10:20 AM
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Originally posted by Averysmallfoxx

Originally posted by HolgerTheDane

Had the Fathers of your Nation really thought it was a good idea that the common citizen should carry guns or even own guns it wouldn't be in an amendment, it would be right in there with the good stuff.


Its our right to bear arms, its the last line of defense for the public, its called the militia and in the days of the revolutionary war they were the backbone of how we survived.


I'm not trying to be clever here but doesn't the 2nd amendment say "a well regulated militia"?

Isn't a militia a formal thing rather than several million individual people of all persuasions and ideologies who wants to own assault rifles and other really scary types of weapons?



posted on Mar, 23 2009 @ 10:21 AM
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reply to post by Averysmallfoxx
 


Your wife is wise. I wish you cound find the source of her statistics.

She might need to google it and type in the year she did her research. I'm interesting in seeing it.

I'm sure the statistics have increase, never the less a good point.



posted on Mar, 23 2009 @ 10:24 AM
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reply to post by hybridx
 


I think you make a valid point and I agree about the "bare" thing....it is in actuality a little ironic, we talk about the right to bear arms and yet "bare" is used to replace "bear". A little comic relief
.Anyways, I think they have everything they would be asking to code and use the codes to track in databases and on file with gun vendors already, the key here is that all of the info would now be in the hands of people who wanted to restrict the capacity of law abiding gun owners to keep what they legally own and have permits for private knowledge. If a bill passed and all ammo was coded why would someone use their own gun? then don't you think stealing someone elses or buying one off the black market would be the way to deal? It's irrelevant in that sense and only makes it harder for the law abiding citizens whom believe by their purchases and such in the right to arm and maintain arms...



posted on Mar, 23 2009 @ 10:32 AM
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reply to post by HolgerTheDane
 


actually no, the militia is not formal and thats what makes it such. You must remember this was created in the times of the revolutionary war when for the most part all we had was militia and very scarce supply of trained and war hardened vets. You had men who at were one time slaves fighting because if they served 3 years or whatever their term of service was they would then be free, beside those men you had the through-in-through American whom had his rifles because you didn't have grocery stores then, and he picked up his hunting rifle in defense of his belief in a new country he came here with all the rest to establish, next to him maybe second generation military family sons whom were not allowed to join the army yet and as such snuck away to become a fighting man in all his naivety, people like this made up the backbone of America's last line of defense and there wasn't any formality about it other than signing up. A militia today could easily be described as a neighborhoods reservoir of gun owning men, fighting off a looting mob to protect their families and houses where police would not interdict. There is no formality there either, just a need and a group who choose to supply the solution.



posted on Mar, 23 2009 @ 12:04 PM
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Originally posted by wonderworld
reply to post by TheDustman
 


That is a good question about “who will profit”

Maybe DOD. If it’s true that we must destroy all uncoded ammo by 2011, I would assume there would be an increase of coded ammo sales, that’s another possible profit. The Feds will profit from the tax increase.

How nice, that Obama will create new jobs for people in charge of running such a huge database.

It will be the gun owners who will take it up the tail pipe.



I must ask, why are you so utterly certain that Barack Obama is leading this? If you really want to say that theres a conspiracy to disarm the citizens of the United States, then surely it wouldn't hinge on something as 'risky' as having their people voted into office. It would be done by the people you and I never see, the back roomers, the lurkers, the same crooks and despots that have been pulling the strings.

That aside, I think the DOD ( Department of Defense? ) would wind up losing money on this one. The cost of actually enforcing this proposal would outstrip the profits in short order, and if it does pass, I think it will go the same way as our "War on Drugs".. Nothing more then farcical bonfire that they throw wads of money to to try to put out.



posted on Mar, 23 2009 @ 04:10 PM
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Wow, what an inane idea. Do you really think criminals won't just start buying ammunition on the black market too? All this is going to do is make criminals richer, because criminals will buy ammo off the black market instead of at Wal-mart.

The guy in the Oakland Police shooting was using an AK-47 for goodness sake. WHERE DO YOU THINK HE GOT IT? Now, if this law were passed, he would have also bought ammo off of the black market, making those criminals even richer. Hmmmm....
Oakland Reels in Aftermath of Deadly Police Killings

Don't create a new black market product!



posted on Mar, 23 2009 @ 04:33 PM
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reply to post by TheDustman
 


I do have mixed opions with the DOD. I do think it's more about control than profit but it's still a good questions. The motives sometimes arent what they seem.

Well it’s defiantly not the Republicans running this. The Democrats that put this on the table but is will be Obama signing off on it whether he proposed it or not.

No one can deny Obama wants gun regulations. I would guess that includes this coded ammo, registration, and destroying all uncoded ammo by 2011, as this bill proposes.

I don’t hate Obama. I’m hoping for his safety from both outside and INSIDE the Whitehouse. I am, however extremely disappointed with most of what he has accomplished so far.



posted on Mar, 23 2009 @ 05:06 PM
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reply to post by Ablastard
 


I think that is why I thought that was not feasible either. With all things illegalized you get an instant demand for it on the black market and that being run by criminals eventually draws big organized crime to the table making things much more complicated to stop unless it is then legalized for the government to retake the market demand....



posted on Mar, 23 2009 @ 05:59 PM
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Source:

www.ammocoding.com...

Bullet Identification Technology: A modern crime fighting tool
In an effort to provide law enforcement with modern crime fighting tools, a new patentpending bullet identification technology known as the Ammunition Coding System (ACS) has been developed. ACS assigns a unique code to every round of ammunition manufactured, and by recording sales records, law enforcement personnel will be able to easily trace the ammunition involved in a crime and have an avenue to pursue and solve even the most difficult cases.

The key to ACS is the unique code that is micro-laser engraved on factory-produced ammunition. This laser engraving is etched on both the projectile and the inside of the cartridge casing. Each code will be common to a single box of cartridges and unique from all other ammunition sold. The unique ACS codes will be tracked and records maintained to identify individual ammunition purchases.

The ACS technology will provide a method for law enforcement personnel to trace ammunition purchases and link bullets and cartridge cases found at crime scenes to the initial retail ammunition purchaser. This system will not necessarily prove who pulled the trigger, but it will provide law enforcement with a valuable lead and a starting point to quickly begin their investigations.

The design of the ACS laser engraving system will allow law enforcement personnel to identify the bullet code in cases where as little as 20% of the bullet base remains intact after recovery. Since bullets are designed to keep the base solid and in its original configuration, the likelihood of ACS codes remaining legible after recovery is very high. Law enforcement testing has already shown a 99% success rate in identifying the ACS code after bullet recovery.

Consider the following, a drive by shooting that does not result in injuries or deaths yet bullets and shell casings are left behind; or firearm vandalism where property may be destroyed or damaged. ACS would prove to be a very useful and effective tool in preventing future crimes by apprehending those individuals responsible before a more serious crime is committed.

All too often, federal and state fish and game investigators discover disturbing evidence of illegal poaching. The evidence, most often, is only the carcass of a rare or endangered animal or bird. By using ACS to trace recovered ballistic evidence, fish and game authorities will be able to make serious headway in preventing future violations.

Can the ACS technology be circumvented?
Not easily. It would require considerable skill and knowledge for a criminal to circumvent the ACS technology. A person with the right knowledge, skill and equipment could cast and load their own ammunition. Similarly, a person could disassemble a coded bullet, file off the ACS codes and reassemble the component parts. However, criminals are not known for their advance planning skills. As an example, fingerprint technology is easy to defeat simply by wearing gloves, but that does not mean the police no longer dust for fingerprints at crime scenes. Most criminals don’t wear gloves; similarly most will not take the time nor do they have the knowledge or equipment to defeat ACS.

I actually think this is a good thing.



posted on Mar, 23 2009 @ 06:00 PM
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Source:

www.ammocoding.com...

Bullet Identification Technology: A modern crime fighting tool
In an effort to provide law enforcement with modern crime fighting tools, a new patentpending bullet identification technology known as the Ammunition Coding System (ACS) has been developed. ACS assigns a unique code to every round of ammunition manufactured, and by recording sales records, law enforcement personnel will be able to easily trace the ammunition involved in a crime and have an avenue to pursue and solve even the most difficult cases.

The key to ACS is the unique code that is micro-laser engraved on factory-produced ammunition. This laser engraving is etched on both the projectile and the inside of the cartridge casing. Each code will be common to a single box of cartridges and unique from all other ammunition sold. The unique ACS codes will be tracked and records maintained to identify individual ammunition purchases.

The ACS technology will provide a method for law enforcement personnel to trace ammunition purchases and link bullets and cartridge cases found at crime scenes to the initial retail ammunition purchaser. This system will not necessarily prove who pulled the trigger, but it will provide law enforcement with a valuable lead and a starting point to quickly begin their investigations.

The design of the ACS laser engraving system will allow law enforcement personnel to identify the bullet code in cases where as little as 20% of the bullet base remains intact after recovery. Since bullets are designed to keep the base solid and in its original configuration, the likelihood of ACS codes remaining legible after recovery is very high. Law enforcement testing has already shown a 99% success rate in identifying the ACS code after bullet recovery.

Consider the following, a drive by shooting that does not result in injuries or deaths yet bullets and shell casings are left behind; or firearm vandalism where property may be destroyed or damaged. ACS would prove to be a very useful and effective tool in preventing future crimes by apprehending those individuals responsible before a more serious crime is committed.

All too often, federal and state fish and game investigators discover disturbing evidence of illegal poaching. The evidence, most often, is only the carcass of a rare or endangered animal or bird. By using ACS to trace recovered ballistic evidence, fish and game authorities will be able to make serious headway in preventing future violations.

Can the ACS technology be circumvented?
Not easily. It would require considerable skill and knowledge for a criminal to circumvent the ACS technology. A person with the right knowledge, skill and equipment could cast and load their own ammunition. Similarly, a person could disassemble a coded bullet, file off the ACS codes and reassemble the component parts. However, criminals are not known for their advance planning skills. As an example, fingerprint technology is easy to defeat simply by wearing gloves, but that does not mean the police no longer dust for fingerprints at crime scenes. Most criminals don’t wear gloves; similarly most will not take the time nor do they have the knowledge or equipment to defeat ACS.

I actually think this is a good thing.



posted on Mar, 23 2009 @ 06:04 PM
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reply to post by Whiteone
 


Like it has been said earlier, criminals might not be smart enough to know how to circumvent the coding on bullets its on but that does not mean they would be FORCED to use coded bullets....the black market will sell you anything you need if you have enough cash and know where to look. Even more so, a criminal could be using a stolen gun or ammo from a law abiding citizen and using it would prevent a smoke screen...It is not as great idea as some would have us think it just looks good on paper to people who arent so avidly protective of their 2nd amendment rights.



posted on Mar, 23 2009 @ 06:09 PM
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reply to post by Whiteone
 


Coding is only part of the problem? I guess you arent a gun owner??

This bill would require a person to destroy all uncoded ammo by 2011. Most arent willing to give up their ammo.

The registration part of this bill is beyond horrific. You should read it. They can add guns to their database but I dont want my ammo being on one, listing how much or which caliper I own.




This is my states bill. There are 20 others.



posted on Mar, 23 2009 @ 07:36 PM
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reply to post by Averysmallfoxx
 


Yes, what criminal would buy these?









posted on Mar, 23 2009 @ 08:23 PM
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reply to post by andre18
 

Andre you have had plenty of time to answer this question.How would encoded ammo bought legally at a K-MART stopped the Columbine kids?Answer please I really want to know.



posted on Mar, 23 2009 @ 08:56 PM
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reply to post by wonderworld
 


I see where your coming from. I agree with just about everything you said, and the trend that follows coded ammo could turn out to be everyones worst fears.

But I think that the trend towards disarming citizens is one that crosses party lines, and I don't know how much the election cycle affects the real movers and shakers on this kind of thing.



posted on Mar, 23 2009 @ 11:41 PM
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I'm gonna be laughing my ass off down here in Texas when ammo manufacturers stop shipping to the states that require encoding, IF the bill gets passed. Which would mean that LE agencies would be forced to buy out of state, and in turn be violating the law by having the un-encoded ammo. I'm betting this one will gain a HUGE following when the Police cant even return fire without the fear of going to jail...



posted on Mar, 24 2009 @ 07:15 AM
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FYI

Long Beach CA to vote on Ammunition Registration March 24


LONG BEACH, Calif. --- On Tuesday, March 24, the Long Beach City Council is set to vote on whether to draft an ordinance to force ammunition sellers in Long Beach to record the identity of all ammunition purchasers, as well as other details of the sales transaction. These records would then be collected and used by the Long Beach Police Department to identify purchasers who are legally prohibited from possessing ammunition.



posted on Mar, 24 2009 @ 07:24 AM
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reply to post by Ablastard
 


There are CA legal AK-47's but upon reading the article that is oddly void of any speciffics it seems likely he had a high capacity (CA illegal) mag.

Not to mention it is already illegal for a parolee to have a firearm and it is already illegal to murder people.

Just one more law would have stopped this tragedy. Just one more.


If you're aiming a gun at cops whether or not your ammo has little numbers on it that may or may not be connected to you is most likely not on your top ten list of concerns. Doubtful if it's even on your top 500 list.



posted on Mar, 24 2009 @ 10:29 AM
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reply to post by thisguyrighthere
 


Right is the gun legal or illegal? Is the ammo legal or illegal? Even though some guns are illegal now. I doubt people with part with their property.






coded PCA-Spectrum 5.56x45mm rounds, I could not detect any difference from standard brass cased ammunition, except the micro code.



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