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Subject: No one can sell any ammunition after June 30, 2009

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posted on Mar, 21 2009 @ 03:10 AM
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Originally posted by Hastobemoretolife
I can see this legislation passing in some states, but overall it isn't going to work.

Ammo manufactures are not going to code their ammo for a few states out of 50. The states that do pass this legislation are only hurting themselves. I don't know how exactly they are going to figure out which ammo is coded and which ones aren't though.


I believe that is the point of these proposals. If enacted, it would cause ammo companies to not do business in the state(s) until such a time as they either retrofit or fight the case in court. I think some already do the coding, at large expense.

Either way, it will be months, if not years before a court ruling.

Meanwhile, TSHTF and people are throwing rocks.

THere is a method to their madness.




posted on Mar, 21 2009 @ 03:36 AM
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I want to point out part of the Washington Bill from last year (House Bill 3359) that gives a tremendous amount of interpretation of the law to the Department of Licensing.

Pay special attention to 29(e) at the end of the quote below. Besides collecting your state identification it leaves one last big whopper "Other information that the department of licensing determines 30 is necessary". Maybe they'll decide that want to know your kids names or where your wife works, perhaps your passport ID or how many countries you have visited in the last 5 years, maybe they'll want to know what types of medication you're on or whether or not you have HIV or any other diseases that could perhaps be associated with certain behaviors or tendencies.

This allows state workers to arbitrarily change what information is collected by those who buy ammunition and they don't have to get permission from our lawmakers they would have an open ended license to collect private information and build a database with yet unknown data that could be used for an yet unknown or undisclosed purpose.

Can anyone not see where this is going?

This is not what happens in a free Country or State.


11 NEW SECTION. Sec. 3. A new section is added to chapter 9.41 RCW 12 to read as follows: 13 A seller of pistol ammunition that is required to be coded under 14 section 1 of this act must comply with the following requirements: 15 (1) Register with the department of licensing in a manner 16 prescribed by the department of licensing; 17 (2) Report to the department of licensing, in a format prescribed 18 by the department of licensing, the following information for each 19 transaction that involves pistol ammunition that is required to be 20 coded under section 1 of this act: 21 (a) The date of the transaction; 22 (b) The name and date of birth of the purchaser or transferee of 23 the pistol ammunition; 24 (c) The driver's license number or other government-issued 25 identification card number of the purchaser or transferee of the pistol 26 ammunition; 27 (d) The unique alphanumeric identifier of all pistol ammunition 28 transferred to the purchaser or transferee; and 29 (e) Other information that the department of licensing determines 30 is necessary.


Again the end game is not catching the criminals that are using guns today while committing crimes - the criminal aspect is the distraction for the sheeple. The end game is making criminals out of anyone who would perhaps oppose them with an armed resistance after they begin to turn the screws.

[edit on 21-3-2009 by verylowfrequency]



posted on Mar, 21 2009 @ 03:36 AM
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Originally posted by smokecrops
Why do you people have such a problem with Obama. Get over it the republicans lost, the backwards thinking policies of the neo-conservatives are on their way out and some people just can't deal with it, democrats and liberals were never sore losers, but you guys just can't get over it. CASE IN POINT: THESE ARE STATE LEGISLATION ISSUES. NOT FEDERAL LAWS THEREFORE OBAMA HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH THESE BILLS. Obama and the white house are part of the executive branch of the FEDERAL government. not the STATE governments. so stop blaming Obama. also, I like how you post a link to snopes.com that says in big letters undetermined. AHAHAHAHA you think just because it hasn't been disproved YET that its the truth? Give me a break, I do thank you for one thing, I will never ever ever take anything you post as the truth again....I love when people think they have a good case and post utter nonsense like this, it just gives me another name to add to the retard list....please please don't breed, one thing this world doesn't need is another child version of you going around with their head up their own but oblivious to the world....go read a book.


What possesses someone to be so completely thoughtless of T n C protocol? asking to get spotted by mods for your flaming?? Look man, you have your own beliefs and thats fine. Just don't expect to win anyone over for your amazing tact and eloquence. As far as I am concerned....Your splitting hairs with which side is winning and which one is not. Democrats and Republicans are for the most part while classically in opposition, pretty much constitute players wearing different uniforms, playing for the same coach...



posted on Mar, 21 2009 @ 04:52 AM
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This whole thing is being blown way out of proportion,the govs gun/ammo grabbing ways are as rediculous as DNA collection........
Drop a dinky little 9mm casing outa the back of your pickup truck on the way back from the range,and somebody else drops some other evidence along the road nearby,and you are a suspect in a criminal investigation,of a crime you were not involved in....
....Or....
Drop a dinky little cigarette butt along the road,or anywhere....and some putz commits some heinous crime and leaves evidence along the same stretch of road,and you are in the same position as above...
And don't even say that if you are innocent you have nothing to worry about,don't be stupid and try to explain how the legal system is there to protect,because it's fkn not!!!
The legal system is there to devour you,whether you committed any unlawful acts or not,it will do the same thing all legal systems have done,which is to destroy you and make you an example of it's awesome power to prevent others from acting like anything but a docile and stupid sheep.Coercion=UNLAWFUL,and that is what this is!.
Most americans just don't get it,they are fkn asleep.
The constitution died along with the creation of your fake economy,the s##t is hitting the fan now.
The problem is the outdated monetary system,without fixing it,nothing will ever change.
The U.S. was founded to escape the corporate ruling elite/banker/government/monarchy BS schemes that are everywhere else in the world and always have been.
BUT WE FORGOT.
Poor little dumbed down sheep.
Don't take me wrong,violent revolution is not the way to go,governments are experts at violence,it is "their game"......
Now the U.S. is being reduced to a third world country economically,to be assimilated into the global plan,no manufacturing base....etc.
I really don't know what is going to happen,but I really don't think anyone who enjoys freedom,while excercising morals and common sense of course,will like this world much soon.
Stop arguing here,fk the rest of the world,they don't understand what it really is to be free anyway,according to the rulers,free-men are an abomination....
I wander,but the point is that this is all BS legislation to control the population,catalog everything,prosecute anyone they can for anything they can,and grow debt and build prisons to house the debtors.
Study yourself,find the truth yourself,find your own proof.
You only need open your eyes.



posted on Mar, 21 2009 @ 07:52 AM
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Well put, I agree. I think however that this all leads cummulatively to something of a 1984 type outcome. It makes the most sense and its the most effective way to retain power. Knowing all and having the ability to reach out and effect anyone. Scary to say the least. It is as my avatar says, Apathy kills. It is an element of American sentiment that has been present far too long....If only we were willing to be so active as the french....I know that comes from left field but they have been historically a very active population in setting there own terms of standard of living and keeping the government they charge with management of their well being in good standing. If only Americans could rise up. Perhaps we should and will but it is not something I see soon, unless we become desperate and even then I fear mob mentality would redirect to looting. Get the biggest LCD Plasma tv you can find, steal the ipod or xbox or computer you been looking at cuz the cops have their hands full holding off the horde protesting...Materialism I think is our downfall.



posted on Mar, 21 2009 @ 09:58 AM
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reply to post by chiponbothshoulders
 


This is nothing more than Obama backdoor gun control. Starting with coded ammmo.

Even though your tone is anger chiponbothshoulders. I agree with everything you say, however coding ammo to use as evidence is only a mild part of this bill being proposed. It interferes with the privacy act.

If all my ammo was registered in a Federal database they would know exactly how much I have, which caliper. A lot of us here own guns that are on Obama’s gun list. It starts with military type weapons and will move on from there.

Would they consider me to be a felon if I keep my guns and uncoded ammo? We know the house Democrats have control of the house and Senate. They now ever the opportunity to approve these bills. Perhaps sneak them in to another bill. Therefore we cant buy ammo for those particular guns. The Feds have no business keeping tally of what I own or how much, requiring me to hand over my weapons.

The DOD has already issued a directive in 2008 that all fired 223, 308, and 50BMG brass will be destroyed rather than being sold to ammunition remanufacturers. I beieve this is somehow related to the coding proposal.

Is this part of the coding law that will take place? I don’t think it will stop here. The proposed bill states ALL ammo not encoded or be be destroyed.

It will cost us, the taxpayers millions because of the lost revenue to the DOD from used brass sales and reloading equipment

It appears there is not much opposition to these laws, therefore most who say contact your local representative DO NOT follow through and expect the next guy to do it for you. It’s too late after such bills are passed in to legislation. I'd like to see a survey of how many do contact their local reps, instead of telling others to do so. We need more opposition! Dont you agree?


[edit on 21-3-2009 by wonderworld]



posted on Mar, 21 2009 @ 10:15 AM
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Voting is pointless,talking is pointless,there is too much power wielded by those who want to maintain control to allow either to implement any meaningful change.
Bitch all you want,it won't knock a freight-train off of the tracks.
Precedents are being set,legality is determined by if such things have been done in the past,first came Quinlan,then Shiavo,as it will go for gun laws.
But we have that pesky Constitution,"they say".
The time draws near,but who's really prepared to actually stand their ground?,how?,Who Is Ready to "stay the course"?.
The few who are will be made examples of.
I prefer to think of myself as a "mugwump",but.......
00.02
The only way a consumer can wage war against those who would oppress such a stupid animal,is to stop consuming.
Don't worry about being labeled,we all already are.
So now what ya gonna do,shake it off?
The only thing I'm not is a felon,but how hard is it to get that label affixed to one?.
This is all wrong.

[edit on 21-3-2009 by chiponbothshoulders]

[edit on 21-3-2009 by chiponbothshoulders]



posted on Mar, 21 2009 @ 10:29 AM
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reply to post by chiponbothshoulders
 


Yes you make a good point. Voting and talking don’t mean squat! Our voices are not heard. Too many shadow governments running the show!

I’m not sure how effective petitions are and since this is a conspiracy site we cant all join up and give our personal info on a petition, unless the moderators know a way?

Youre right those who do stand up will be made examples of, under the new terrorist bill that was passed. Sometimes we cant win for losing.

I want to believe we can make a difference. I thinks that’s why we get so upset. I give up on the theory that “Why worry about something we cant change” That is BS for lazy people who expect others to tend to their needs. Talking gets nowhere.



posted on Mar, 21 2009 @ 10:42 AM
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As with everything,there are extremes,such as "violence",and "peaceful resistance".
Now we have to find something in between once again,because our big dumb control factors are beginning to wake up again.
We are about at the end of the normal 250 year cycle of empires,which is what the U.S. has become after WW2,societies always go through the motions,but end up in the same predicament.....
Ammo is in short supply,partly because it is imported from everywhere other than here,shipping is down by over 90% worldwide...could be part of it...manufacturing is gone...
Really though,I take much satisfaction in proving those who think that "might is right",isn't quite enough.
They torture now,because death is freedom from this place.
Don't take me negatively please,I just try to take what I know into consideration.



posted on Mar, 21 2009 @ 10:51 AM
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As a UK member must say that I find this whole thread rather hard to swallow. You don't need guns at home..........simple. We still have unarmed police walking the streets too and it works, believe it or not.

[edit on 21-3-2009 by highlander2008]

[edit on 21-3-2009 by highlander2008]



posted on Mar, 21 2009 @ 10:55 AM
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You need to have everything at home,to deal with any eventuality that may arise to protect you and your family from anything that may arise from anything ,within your control.
Unless,of course,you would rather rely on someone else to protect you and yours.
You must plan for the worst case scenario,and hope for the best outcome,at least.
Insurance is a scam,it is a british scheme.
Nobody lives forever but legends.

[edit on 21-3-2009 by chiponbothshoulders]



posted on Mar, 21 2009 @ 11:07 AM
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reply to post by chiponbothshoulders
 


I agree about the US changing, since World War 2. Our US currency was dominant. Since are dollar is worth less , as well as all Countries currencies I suspect it will soon be coded as well.

The World is changing. What happens when we make it through this next dark age. It’s anyone’s guess. NWO?

We already barcode everything but bullets! Insane! I’m assuming we will have a financial code, medical code, ID code, gun and ammo code,. My dog already has a microchip so he is coded. If I buy farm animals I am required to get them coded.

The final result will be homeland security using every trick in the book to say they are protecting us. Many will agree it’s a good thing. Slowly but surely its working it began with the barcode. Now no one thinks twice!! They have been programmed to the idea.

I can pay 200 bucks and get an RFID implanted today. Soon it will be free. We will be living in a coded world, actually we already are. I took a lot of Sociology in College. It’s called the “norm” People have initial reaction, then adapt to their surrounds as seeing it normal. Then they present the next phase, on and on.

We can either ADAPT or revolt. 2 choices, no middle ground.



posted on Mar, 21 2009 @ 11:25 AM
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reply to post by highlander2008
 


Yes the US has gets a bad rap due to violence. Some Countries go so far as to call us the Great Satan. We still have lots of wonderful Freedoms.

I don’t see violence where I live either. Since you were raised in the UK have you had many political changes that you oppose? I agree there is less crime there, however I don’t have any statistics on hand.

The point you make is that the EU doesn’t need or want guns and your police are unarmed. Here in the States we are gun collectors, that perhaps our great grandfathers left or those who collect Spanish/American war stuff, they are a hobby for many.

We like the right to protect our families, whether, from a thug, or to provide food. I don’t know anything other than gun ownership. All my family have been gun collectors for generations. I guess it’s a cultural thing.

When someone proposes to take this away we get angry as you have seen.



posted on Mar, 21 2009 @ 11:47 AM
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who here has actually shot someone.



posted on Mar, 21 2009 @ 12:06 PM
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Good youtube video to STOCK UP on ammo, panic buying and Obama regulations. Coding is the newest of proposed regulations.






Obama does plan to put tight regulations on our ammo. That's why we are running low. I think I'll head out soon to get more today!



posted on Mar, 21 2009 @ 12:08 PM
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reply to post by andre18
 


I take away nothing from Australia, whose country and people I feel are top notch but the fact remains that the Australian government was allowed to seize almost all firearms in your country because of complacent, gun hating people like yourself.

Having said this;
You could not possible understand our American firearm culture or why we defend our 2nd amendment with a passion. Without the 2nd amendment, all the rest are nothing more then words; without the people's ability to own firearms, the Constitution becomes as useful as a paper shield!

A few traitors in the US government are trying yet another method to circumvent our 2nd amendment now by these new ammunition attacks; they tried this tactic with other bills banning/taxing certain "needed parts" on firearms but the courts ruled them unConstitutional and said parts needed for the "weapon to operate and shoot can not be outlawed, banned or enact an over reaching tax for the same agenda."

Thank God our 2nd amendment does not just cover "firearms" it covers “Arms”. This covers ALL items necessary for a firearm to actually work and be able to freely fire in order to be "necessary to the security...of the people", as backed by the multiple court cases where they try to restrict parts such as firing pins, bolts, etc... Ammo is the most needed part to a firearm or it will become useless, nothing more than a strange looking club. So these draconian ammunition bills are unConstitutional and will not be allowed to stand for long, if at all, since very strong Court precedence in this matter has already been set.

"A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the People to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed."

The 2nd amendment is not about hunting, it is the ability to defend one self, family and to ensure "we the people" are a tyrannical Government's worst nightmare.



posted on Mar, 21 2009 @ 12:51 PM
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reply to post by die_another_day
 


No I have not shot anyone yet, Unless a catastrophic event occurred, like massive bank failures, terrorist attack, natural disaster creating massive crime sprees requiring martial law.

If you read the last line listed below you will see how Obama supports mandatory micro-stamping. The following are things that Obama has supported.

FACT: Barack Obama voted against the confirmation of 2 of the 5 Justices that affirmed an individual right to keep and bear arms.

FACT: Barack Obama voted to allow reckless lawsuits designed to bankrupt the firearms industry.

FACT: Barack Obama wants to re-impose the failed and discredited Clinton Gun Ban.

FACT: Barack Obama voted to ban almost all rifle ammunition commonly used for hunting and sport shooting.

FACT: Barack Obama has endorsed a 500% increase in the federal excise tax on firearms and ammunition.

FACT: Barack Obama has endorsed a complete ban on handgun ownership.

FACT: Barack Obama supports local gun bans in Chicago, Washington, D.C., and other cities.

FACT: Barack Obama voted to uphold local gun bans and the criminal prosecution of people
who use firearms in self-defense.

FACT: Barack Obama supports gun owner licensing and gun registration.

FACT: Barack Obama refused to sign a friend-of-the-court Brief in support of individual Second Amendment rights in the Heller case.

FACT: Barack Obama opposes Right to Carry laws.

FACT: Barack Obama was a member of the Board of Directors of the Joyce Foundation, the leading source of funds for anti-gun organizations and “research.”

FACT: Barack Obama supported a proposal to ban gun stores within 5 miles of a school or park, which would eliminate almost every gun store in America.

FACT: Barack Obama voted not to notify gun owners when the state of Illinois did records searches on them.

FACT: Barack Obama voted against a measure to lower the Firearms Owners Identification card age minimum from 21 to 18, a measure designed to assist young people in the military.

FACT: Barack Obama favors a ban on standard capacity magazines.

FACT: Barack Obama supports mandatory micro-stamping.



posted on Mar, 21 2009 @ 03:14 PM
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Originally posted by wonderworld
Nobody can sell any ammunition after June 30, 2009


Not true is it? Not if we read on in your post.




***snip***
The bill 20 that is being pushed in 18 states (including Illinois and Indiana) requires all ammunition to be encoded by the manufacture a data base of all ammunition sales. So they will know how much you buy and what calibers. Nobody can sell any ammunition after June 30, 2009 unless the ammunition is coded.



And the problem with this (edit: the coding) is?

EDIT
Don't react to this one. I overlooked the answers already given.




***snip***
They will also charge a .05 cent tax on every round so every box of ammo you buy will go up at least $2.50 or more!



You won't be able to buy half a packet of cigarettes. Is that a huge problem?
Do you really shoot/smoke that much?




If they can deprive you of ammo they do not need to take your gun!



But they don't do they?

It is half a packet of cigarettes or the extra price on ammo.


[edit on 21.3.2009 by HolgerTheDane]

[edit on 21.3.2009 by HolgerTheDane]



posted on Mar, 21 2009 @ 03:24 PM
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Can I ask a silly question? It has been on my mind for some time now and this seems to be the right place to aask the right people.

When they say in american thrillers (or even on the news) that a man was arrested and charged for carrying a concealed firearm, does that mean that it is legal to carry it openly in a hip holster?

No flames please. I really am puzzled.



posted on Mar, 21 2009 @ 03:33 PM
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Originally posted by highlander2008
As a UK member must say that I find this whole thread rather hard to swallow. You don't need guns at home..........simple. We still have unarmed police walking the streets too and it works, believe it or not.


Apparently you've never visited the United States of America. Believe it or not it's quite a bit bigger and wilder than the UK. In America many homes are miles and miles away from the nearest town or police - which means many have to lookout for themselves. To an American the UK is more like uh... Disneyland, so yes in Disneyland I agree there's no need for guns.

Ever watch the LA riots on your television? Where hordes of angry people were looting, burning and destroying everything in their path. How are you going to stop those types of situations when it comes to your neighborhood? A dozen or so Armed neighbors would send them in another direction and keep your neighborhood from getting destroyed if such an event occurred. If you've watched any of the documentaries on that indecent you'll also notice that some shop keepers saved their stores from looters by posting armed family members at the doors and on the roof of those stores - when the looters came their way they turned around and looked for easier prey.

As was seen there the police are not going to risk their lives to save your neighborhood when it gets that bad - you have to stand up and have the means to protect yourselves.

Where I live we have these animals called Bears and Cougars. They are both known to attack and eat people on occasion. In fact every year there's stories of people getting attacked and killed by bears. They are bigger stronger and faster than human beings - a gun is an equalizer if one is attacked by one of these creatures. Even then some bullets just bounce off them if you don't have enough firepower.

Of course the real purpose to our second Amendment is so we can't be completely enslaved as we once were- if nothing else it's a deterrent that slows the evil greedy bastards from taking too much too quickly. What's so bad about the day we say enough is enough? As long as the evil greedy creatures know that at some point I might blow a fuse and put a cap in their skull - they have to be a little more careful on how they behave towards me.



[edit on 21-3-2009 by verylowfrequency]




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