"It's Like Something Out Of The Third World"

reply to post by DimensionalDetective


It's not just the cost of health care, though that's the biggest part of the problem. Have a pre-existing condition? Expect to pay more in deductibles and monthly premiums than your medication is worth!
It's also how the system is set up. Insurance companies will try to deny claims by any means necessary. The best example is if you have a pre-existing condition. Not only will you usually get denied coverage for anything from asthma to cancer, but they will look for ANYTHING they can to keep from shelling out the bucks if you DO have a claim. You can even be perfectly healthy, but say, you're diagnosed with cancer. The insurance company will weed through your entire medical history for ANYTHING that could remotely be conceived as related and undisclosed in order to deny you coverage. So now, you've been diagnosed with cancer of some type, and they deny you coverage because 10 years ago, you had a mole removed somewhere on your body, and even though it was found to be benign, they say that it was related and therefore deny your claim to coverage!
Our entire system of healthcare is ass-backwards in this country. The ONE thing I would GLADLY pay more taxes for is full coverage healthcare.
And to those of you that want to try to point out that yes, in the countries that have such, yes, sometimes there is a wait, sometimes there are people waiting in front of you. But how is that different than here? You make an appointment, which you have to wait for, you sit in a waiting room, waiting on your turn. Which would you rather have? To wait a little bit to see a doctor, or not be able to see one at all? Did you kow that in some of these countries with free healthcare that doctors are paid MORE by the government for the healthier their patients are?!?!!? Here in America, the doctors not only charge an arm and a leg but they're taking payoffs from drug companies to push their products needlessly and move you in and out like cattle as fast as possible in order to milk even more money from our broken system.

- This is coming from someone with intimate knowwledge of the insurance and healthcare industry.

Originally posted by grover
reply to post by ImaginaryReality1984

 

That is generally the pattern with a lot of the hard right... unless they can directly benefit (or they need something) screw everybody else... which given their devotion to evoking Jesus... (as opposed to living his teachings) is the polar opposite to his example.

[edit on 8-8-2008 by grover]

FYI, I'm a libertarian and just because I put my family's welfare above your family's (which we ALL do and will say so if we're honest) doesn't mean I don't care about other people.

I NEVER mentioned Jesus first in any of my posts. I was responding to others throwing Him in our faces and saying we were't living up to his teachings because we don't think the FEDGOV running the health care system is the best solution to the problem.

If anyone only cares about what "directly benefits" them and says screw everybody else, it's you guys who think you have some RIGHT to steal my labor and give it to someone else (or YOU).

It's funny how evil the government is when you don't like what they are doing, but when it's something you do like then they are the ONLY answer to the problem.

I don't want FEDGOV doing anything but what the constitution allows. That's where we're different. You recognize the coercive power of the State and don't mind using it to accomplish your aims. I recognize it as well and I care enough about EVERY American that I don't want that power to be able to be used EVER.

Eric

Originally posted by candyfloss

Originally posted by dontreadonme
reply to post by candyfloss

 

One more thing. Look up the facts about infant mortality before you run your mouth again. The US reports ALL births that show signs of life as live births. You Europeans weigh them, measure them or use how far along the pregnancy is to determine what constitutes a live birth. Looks like you guys are padding the results a little bit.
Here you go buddy-www.abovetopsecret.com...

Doesn't change the fact that live births are determined differently in Europe. If we used your measuring stick our infant mortality rate would be LOWER.

I don't know why you guys are so worried about what goes on over here. Have you noticed the incredibly huge numbers of Americans on the boards commenting on your country and it's ways? NO, because we don't care how you do it. It's YOUR country. Do what you want.



[edit on 8/8/08 by dontreadonme]

reply to post by DimensionalDetective
Our elites never renounced their obsession with Eugenics ,therefore our government must never be trusted with the healthcare of the citizens of this country. With government control of the healthcare of the middle class I am afraid there would be more abuses like the Tuskegee experiment and the Carrie buck case. I suspect that there are many cases of the government taking care of the health of poor people in a way that is unacceptable. Some of the poor people lined up in that photo probably are on government assistance ,but are hoping to recieve better care from a charitable organization than they are recieving via the government. Poor people need more charitable care.

Before 1920 people in this country had many choices in terms of health care. After 1924 the system was reformed and hospitals that did not follow the German model were shut down. The German model is good for scientific research ,but it is expensive and does little to prevent diseases outside trying to show how some people are more suceptible to certain diseases because of flawed DNA.

Holistic methods of healthcare are less expensive and more humane. These methods involve diet and exercise to prevent the onset of disease and the use of herbs (many of which are being banned by the fda) to treat cronic conditions.



[edit on 8-8-2008 by eradown]

reply to post by Jadette


I'm very sorry to hear about your Dad Jadette.Don't lose hope for a better future

reply to post by dontreadonme


What is there to respond too.It's a pathetic statement.Try harder next time.

WHO all loves to pay $15.00 for a 200 mg Tylenol or $ 39.50 for a single thofalin or $ 35.00 gauze and adhesive tape or $30.00 for a single dab of neosporin on cut . office visit or hospital stay

Store cost $5.00 for a 300 dose of 200 mg Tylenol, $ 23. month supply $35 bucks worth of gauze and tape is several bags full , neosporin 5 oz tube $ 8 .

Give us a break !!

The quality of health care if you have insurance and they dont weasel out of any thing is quite good . But they are ALWAYS looking for loop holes to gip you.

The root of the problem is unrestrained GREED plan and simple . Insurance companies have hole divisions where there only job is to figure out a way not to pay . There even companies out there who contract out to insurance companies to do just that find ways to not pay for treatment. There are many times covered people have to hire lawyers to force big insurance to pay for covered items . Personally I know you have to have a lawyer to sue a auto insurance company to pay for covered injuries . Like covered car a runs a red lite slams in to my car b injuring me . Car trashed me broken by covered car a . Why the he** do i have to sue covered car a insurance company to pay for ambulance hospital treatment follow up care . Thats Why we have insurance companies . It is all in there game plan hoping you get tired of the BS and pay it your self or run it on your own insurance . When you have to hire a lawyer to get what is rightfully yours . Then he or she adds to the law suit their take is 25% - 50% depending on lawyer .

Big pharma forces US citizens to pay 3-100 times the cost for the same exact drug that is sold in canada germany england mexico and most of the world . Aids patients rights gorup brought up a incident quite a few years ago where ATZ was being charged out at 100 bucks a day here in the US the same lot was being sold to farmers in france or germany for .75 cents a day treatment for a animal viral infection similar dosages .

The Drs are caught in the middle also they are trying to run a business . Depending on the Dr and his or hers track record where they live or their specialty they can spend $2000 to $10,000 per month (amount is dated 8 years old Cousin was moaning about hers spotless record ER DR, ) for malpractice Insurance . Thats a heap for insurance . Again unrestrained greed .

IS it any surprise we are getting screwed When you add

Big pharma +( insurance companies ) cubed + lawyers squared + Drs trying to make a living + ( politicians protecting Big pharma and insurance companied ) cubed + for profit hospitals and their lawyers and lobbyists and politicians + the write off from those who cant pay the exorbitant prices = you and i taken to the cleaners and possibly to bankruptcy court .

Those who say you dont want to carry those who cant afford look what we do have to carry as it is . Dont you love carrying those insurance companied and big pharm and for profit hospitals . Makes me proud. NOT !

If we cut insurance companies lawyers lobbyists politicians ,control big pharma and the for profit hospitals from the equation it would leave

Dr trying to make a living + those who cant pay = us getting health care

How do we get to this point that is the 64 000 dollar question status quo isnt working .

Originally posted by dontreadonme

Originally posted by candyfloss

Originally posted by dontreadonme
reply to post by candyfloss

 

One more thing. Look up the facts about infant mortality before you run your mouth again. The US reports ALL births that show signs of life as live births. You Europeans weigh them, measure them or use how far along the pregnancy is to determine what constitutes a live birth. Looks like you guys are padding the results a little bit.
Here you go buddy-www.abovetopsecret.com...

Doesn't change the fact that live births are determined differently in Europe. If we used your measuring stick our infant mortality rate would be LOWER.

I don't know why you guys are so worried about what goes on over here. Have you noticed the incredibly huge numbers of Americans on the boards commenting on your country and it's ways? NO, because we don't care how you do it. It's YOUR country. Do what you want.

Because dontreadonme we find what goes on in your country morally abhorrent and unfathomable.Did you read Jadettes account of what happened to her Dad.I'll bet you'll still find a way to justify it.

[edit on 8/8/08 by dontreadonme]

Have a pre-existing condition? Insurance companies will try to deny claims by any means necessary.

They will also try and claim a pre-existing condition whenever possible.

For example, my husband and I had insurance through his employment. I became pregnant, went through prenatal care etc. during this pregnancy the insurance company did their "job" and paid for what they were supposed to.

ie: prenatal care etc, though they did make me drive an hour and a half away for every exam and the birth for a hospital and dr. that was "in our network". So every month and sometimes twice a month as I had a high risk pregnancy off I would go on 1 1/2 hour drive to and then back from the dr. So a round trip of 3 hours.

The birth of my son was intense and scary, 36 hours of labor in the hospital, cord around his neck which they did not know etc. The Dr. using forceps to "pull" him out. Exhaustion on my part, and everyone screaming at me to push, after 36 hours I had nothing left. He was sick and ended up in an incubator for a week with a specialist flown in to care for him.

I had surgery, which they botched and I almost died.

Long story short, this was a very very expensive hospital stay.

A month after this our insurance company sent us a denial of payment for "pre-existing" condition.

According to them, my son, his sickness and my surgery were all pre-existing conditions and according to them they were not required to pay.

We fought them for almost a year before they were finally forced by the court to pay the bill. Seems like their were several hundred other people who had filed against this insurance company for basically the same issues.

Yes, please let's stick with the current system, because it works so well.

I have said this before but I will say it again many of the people in charge of medical care are Eugenecists. The worst thing you can say when your child or loved one is taken to the emergency room is I am on chips or I am on medicaid. There is always a chance that an uncharitable jerk will regard your beloved as a weed to be pulled. It is Hell to be poor.



[edit on 8-8-2008 by eradown]

reply to post by amazed


They didn't MAKE you drive anywhere. Insurance companies, like any other business, have contracts with certain providers. It isn't the fault of the insurance company that you livfe an hour and a half away from one of their doctors.

Insurance companies, like other businesses, verify any expenses before they pay out. Reverse positions: Say you owned an insurance company. Wouldn't you verify that every claim was covered before writing a check?

Hell, transfer it into your personal life. When you get your phone bill, power bill, or whatever other bills you may have, do you just blindly pay it or do you look over the charges to make sure you actually owe them first?

I used to live there this is so disheartining.

Corporations are able to buy politicians through our campaign finance system and control the media to convince people that corporate health care is democratic, represents freedom, and is the most efficient system for delivering health care.

If those of you that are so cold hearted and fearfully hanging on to your wallets would read my earlier posting on why we do not have universal healthcare and why we should have universal health care. You will run across a few FACTS.

One of those being universal health care would save 100 to 200 Billion dollars per year. Again 100 to 200 BILLION dollars per year.

MEANING, your pockets would be safer than they are now.

Single payer universal health care costs would be lower than the current US system due to lower administrative costs. The United States spends 50 to 100% more on administration than single payer systems.

Around 30% of Americans have problem accessing health care due to payment problems or access to care, far more than any other industrialized country.

There would be free choice of health care providers under a single payer universal health care system, unlike our current managed care system in which people are forced to see providers on the insurer’s panel to obtain medical benefits.

Single payer, universal health care administered by a state public health system would be much more democratic and much less intrusive than our current system.

Single payer universal health care is not socialized medicine. It is health care payment system, not a health care delivery system. Health care providers would be in fee for service practice, and would not be employees of the government, which would be socialized medicine.

Single payer health care is not socialized medicine, any more than the public funding of education is socialized education, or the public funding of the defense industry is socialized defense.

Like I said before, sheeples.. those of you who don't understand the universal health care system and cry "my wallet", your sheeples, because the system we have now is far more expensive and less efficient than a universal health care system. And it is a less compassionate me me me coorporate system.

You would pay out less than we do now for medicare/medicaid etc.

reply to post by amazed


I believe the number is 100 million Americans dont pay taxes for a variety of reasons, notably their low income. Specifically how much would they be paying for this alleged " not socialized healthcare"?

What if they couldnt pay?

Originally posted by Scorched Earth
reply to post by amazed

 

They didn't MAKE you drive anywhere. Insurance companies, like any other business, have contracts with certain providers. It isn't the fault of the insurance company that you livfe an hour and a half away from one of their doctors.

Insurance companies, like other businesses, verify any expenses before they pay out. Reverse positions: Say you owned an insurance company. Wouldn't you verify that every claim was covered before writing a check?

Hell, transfer it into your personal life. When you get your phone bill, power bill, or whatever other bills you may have, do you just blindly pay it or do you look over the charges to make sure you actually owe them first?

Excuse me? did you even read my post? Yes, they "made" me drive that far for me to have an "in network" dr and hospital. The only other choice was for me to use "out of network" dr and hospital and pay 90% of the cost, while I was paying for insurance. I can guarantee you that this was not my decision. The hospital I had to use was far less efficient than the one just a mile away from me, and why would they choose to have "in network" dr.s, hospitals so far away from their "customer base"? Because many would choose not to drive so far away, or during an emergency would have no choice and therefore the insurance company would pay less. 90% less per the insurance company policy of in network out of network system.

Verify? You did not read what I wrote did you? You had a knee "jerk" reaction and came to a fkd up conclusion. They had no prob paying for care for multiple months before my son was born, ie: before they realized how expensive things were going to be. Let's see how long does a pregnancy last, uh duh. AND they had hundreds of other claims against them for the same issues. Claims of pre-existing conditions. This insurance company was eventually shut down due to fraud of its customers.

Did you not read that the "COURT" system forced them to pay?

Knee Jerk

reply to post by amazed
You make good points but by saying that the system you propose would be similar to the public education system, you bring to mind many cold hearted educational beaurocrats who play god with the lives of little children. When they mess up they suffer no cosquences. Our education system recieves more money than any other education system in the world and it is third rate. Poor kids are shafted by the public school system and the well to do get the best teachers and the best classes for free . I suspect the system you propose would end up being as bad as our public school system.







[edit on 8-8-2008 by eradown]

reply to post by amazed


It isn't the fault of the insurance company that you live far away from a doctor/hospital they contract with. Should they sign contracts with different hospitals simply to accommodate you? No.

My reaction wasn't knee jerk at all. I noticed you avoided answering my question about verifying you actually owe something before paying it. Good thing they were shut down for fraud, but this is a common complaint about all insurance companies. It's contractual nuances, nothing more. Why should they pay for something they don't specifically cover?

Originally posted by eradown
reply to post by amazed

 

You make good points but by saying that the system you propose would be similar to the public education system, you bring to mind many cold hearted educational beaurocrats who play god with the lives of little children. When they mess up they suffer no cosquences. Our education system recieves more money than any other education system in the world and it is third rate. Poor kids are shafted by the public school system and the well to do get the best teachers and the best classes for free . I suspect the system you propose would end up being as bad as our public school system.
[edit on 8-8-2008 by eradown]

I agree that our current school system does have problems and as well needs "revamped" as the health care system does. The point of that statement was that a universal health care system is NOT socialism. And nowhere did I state that universal health care would be "similar".

I said Single payer health care is not socialized medicine, any more than the public funding of education is socialized education, or the public funding of the defense industry is socialized defense.

Did you get anything out of the rest of the posting? Or just that one little tid bit so you could argue against universal health care?

reply to post by amazed


Education is indeed socialized.

People without kids are forced to fund it. People whose children are out of school, or are in private schools are forced to fund an unconstitutional public education system.

As for your single payer system, I will ask again. Will those who can't pay be excluded from it? If not, your argument doesn't hold any water.

Originally posted by Scorched Earth
reply to post by amazed

 

It isn't the fault of the insurance company that you live far away from a doctor/hospital they contract with. Should they sign contracts with different hospitals simply to accommodate you? No.

My reaction wasn't knee jerk at all. I noticed you avoided answering my question about verifying you actually owe something before paying it. Good thing they were shut down for fraud, but this is a common complaint about all insurance companies. It's contractual nuances, nothing more. Why should they pay for something they don't specifically cover?

Personally I did not contract with this insurance company. You again did not read what I wrote did you? We had insurance through "my husbands employment". Yes, it was their fault, as they contracted drs and hospitals far away from their "customer base".

The "COURT" system ended up forcing this insurance company to pay for hundreds of customers that they had frauded.

Keep on supporting this, it'll help your financial situation.

Of course I verify that I owe something before paying it. Your question had nothing to do with what took place with this insurance company and was just an attempt at sidetracking the issue. The point being "this insurance company was in the business of fraudulent actions for the bottom line, how much money they could make."

We had the insurance for a while BEFORE I became pregnant, they verified all that MONTHS before my son was born. If they had not, they would not have been paying for prenatal care now would they? I know this as my dr and I had to sign some forms in regards to the estimated date of pregnancy at my first drs visit to verify the pregnancy.

It is obvious to me that you have a problem with thinking for yourself, and can only regurgitate what supports a faulty system. I will have no further discourse with a knee jerk personality who cannot do their own research. I hope that one day, you never need the assistance of your fellow man.


[edit on 8-8-2008 by amazed]

[edit on 8-8-2008 by amazed]