what is really going on here is that the rich want the poor to die..

"... and where someone has been bestowed a gift,in whatever field or endeavor it is for us to encourage it. Let it be used, "

Originally posted by ImaginaryReality1984
Wotan don't even bother, this sort of person see's socialised medicine as the utter evil, apparently anyone who supports it is a killer, uncaring and wants everyone dead if they're not useful.

Socialized medicine in America will be implemented in a diffrent fashion than in socialist countries. Euthanasia and Abortion will be promoted amonst the weak and the poor to cull the gene pool.

There will be two tiers of care. The poor will continue to get a lower grade of care while the rich continue to use government money to pay for the best doctors and care.

The goal of the elite will not change, a mandatory eugenics program will allow them to take total control over the population. There will be mandatory id cards without which will allow them to monitor and totally control information about a citizen. The system will be abused for thier benefit just like everything else in America.

They will control who gets a new heart transplant and who is left to die under government mis-management. It will be worse than ever. America does not have a very good track record of taking care of it's citizens. Nothing will change for the better. The tax burden upon people who work for a living will increase and the central government unaccountable beaurcratic beast will increase in size.

[edit on 10-8-2008 by In nothing we trust]

The thing that saddens me about this entire thread is that nearly all of you are ignoring or missing the one truth that, if addressed, would actually improve life and heath for all of us.

If you are in the USA and believe that the doctors, the drug companies, the medical supply manufacturers, the hospitals - in fact, the entire American health care industry - has your good health and your best interests at heart, raise your hand.

Now, if you have your hand raised, step back and let those who have at least a rudimentary clue about what's really going on continue the discussion until you figure it out.

Eradown, where were we?



If people are healthy and feel well, they don't need "health care" (which should really be called sick care in my opinion). If people don't utilize health care, the health care industry makes less money. And, while a few individual doctors and nurses may be exceptions, the health care industry in the US is all about PROFIT. They want to keep us unhealthy and dis-eased, they want us to be on their drugs and submitting ourselves to their treatments and surgeries. Until you realize that and take charge of your own health, you'll be a victim of the system and might be one of those joining the line for the next "free clinic" desperately hoping that they can fix what your HMO-designated "primary care" physician hasn't been able to fix by throwing drugs at it.

An NHS might make things a little better by eliminating some of the profiteering, but it won't fix a system that will give you antibiotics for the flu (which is a virus not a bacteria) but won't tell you that echinacea (an antiviral) will help you get over it quicker because no one in the system can make any money off the echinacea.

Originally posted by In nothing we trust
Socialized medicine in America will be implemented in a diffrent fashion than in socialist countries. Euthanasia and Abortion will be promoted amonst the weak and the poor to cull the gene pool.

Roughly 60 years have gone by and this hasn't happened int he UK. Please provide proof.

Originally posted by In nothing we trust
There will be two tiers of care. The poor will continue to get a lower grade of care while the rich continue to use government money to pay for the best doctors and care.

Againt his hasn't happened in the UK, we have private health care as well as public, and anyone can access either, i've used private care myself in certain circumstances (mostly dental).

Originally posted by In nothing we trust
The goal of the elite will not change, a mandatory eugenics program will allow them to take total control over the population. There will be mandatory id cards without which will allow them to monitor and totally control information about a citizen. The system will be abused for thier benefit just like everything else in America.

So you equate healthcare with Id cards? I'm sorry but i oppose ID cards with all my heart and i promise you i will go to prison resisting them, and yet i support social heatlhcare, go figure.

Originally posted by In nothing we trust
They will control who gets a new heart transplant and who is left to die under government mis-management. It will be worse than ever. America does not have a very good track record of taking care of it's citizens. Nothing will change for the better. The tax burden upon people who work for a living will increase and the central government unaccountable beaurcratic beast will increase in size.

that doesn't happen in the UK, heart transplants are givent o those that need it. The tax burden is actually less than your private health insurance burden.

Originally posted by Heike
An NHS might make things a little better by eliminating some of the profiteering, but it won't fix a system that will give you antibiotics for the flu (which is a virus not a bacteria) but won't tell you that echinacea (an antiviral) will help you get over it quicker because no one in the system can make any money off the echinacea.

Actually there has been a big campaign in the UK over that, telling people antibiotics won't help the flu and antivirals are prescribed to at risk groups. We also have free flu jabs for at risk groups. Diabetics, anyone over a certina ge and other groups are all given free jabs.

Originally posted by ImaginaryReality1984

Originally posted by In nothing we trust
Socialized medicine in America will be implemented in a diffrent fashion than in socialist countries. Euthanasia and Abortion will be promoted amonst the weak and the poor to cull the gene pool.

Roughly 60 years have gone by and this hasn't happened int he UK. Please provide proof.

Originally posted by In nothing we trust
There will be two tiers of care. The poor will continue to get a lower grade of care while the rich continue to use government money to pay for the best doctors and care.

Againt his hasn't happened in the UK, we have private health care as well as public, and anyone can access either, i've used private care myself in certain circumstances (mostly dental).

Originally posted by In nothing we trust
The goal of the elite will not change, a mandatory eugenics program will allow them to take total control over the population. There will be mandatory id cards without which will allow them to monitor and totally control information about a citizen. The system will be abused for thier benefit just like everything else in America.

So you equate healthcare with Id cards? I'm sorry but i oppose ID cards with all my heart and i promise you i will go to prison resisting them, and yet i support social heatlhcare, go figure.

Originally posted by In nothing we trust
They will control who gets a new heart transplant and who is left to die under government mis-management. It will be worse than ever. America does not have a very good track record of taking care of it's citizens. Nothing will change for the better. The tax burden upon people who work for a living will increase and the central government unaccountable beaurcratic beast will increase in size.

that doesn't happen in the UK, heart transplants are givent o those that need it. The tax burden is actually less than your private health insurance burden.

The U.S. is not the U.K.

Originally posted by In nothing we trust
The U.S. is not the U.K.

And yet we are all human beings, thank you for failing to address any of my points. The thread was about socialised healthcar and i was giving you an insight into a socialised system. If you think that's not important then you are overlooking a factual working system.

[edit on 10-8-2008 by ImaginaryReality1984]

Originally posted by ImaginaryReality1984

Originally posted by In nothing we trust
The U.S. is not the U.K.

... thank you for failing to address any of my points.

There is no need to address your points. There is no comparison between the U.S. and the U.K.

American medical care will not improve by giving the people who have used their money to take control of the medical schools and the AMA more power by allowing the government to pick and choose the doctors and treatments Americans will be allowed to recieve. This will give the government the right to further reduce Americans to poverty and there will be no accountability when the government delivers third rate care to the middle class and the poor. The people in that line probably already recieve health care from the government; they want better treatment. The supporters of government medicine would have everyone standing in that line except a few wealthy families. The people responsible for the abuse that Americans suffer at the hands of the American medical establishment do not deserve to control all Americans through socialized medicine.

Woton, the link I posted was not meant as a personal insult to you or your good profession. I, too, work with many conscientious healthcare professionals that find the system less than adequate. Yet, we still have to obey the many regulations, laws, policies, procedures, mandates, etc. from the facilities in which we work as well as the law of the land.

There are right now 3 separate threads on ATS about socialized medicine with links to things that are happening in the UK's system. I don't doubt that there are many fine doctors and nurses there who want nothing more than to ensure the well-being of those in their care but there are those with an agenda. Those with an agenda are more powerful and influential than the paygrade of a doctor or nurse. Sorry to say, we're just the pawns who have to implement someone elses agenda.

I hope when the time comes to make a choice for your conscience and not for your paymasters that you will have the passion of conviction you have shown on this board. It truly grieves me to say that time is already here. It's just not wide spread enough yet that you've had to deal with it personally. I have.

I have risked my license on many occasions to tell family members of dying patients alternatives to treat their illness. Alternatives that are considered "quackery" by allopathic medical practitioners. It's also considered "practicing medicine without a license" by my licensing agency. And the few family members who believed me and removed their loved ones from the hospital to get that alternative treatment were so grateful that they further endangered my license by coming back to thank me. I had to deny ever having spoken to them about anything in front of the bewildered family, the recovered patient and my peers while quietly and inwardly settling for just being thankful they were alive and well.

I have a talent for seeing these trends. When AIDS first was released onto the American public I predicted that there would be a significant rise in tuberculosis cases and was laughed to scorn. Well, here we are with a significant rise in TB cases and all those people who called me "chicken little" aren't laughing.

It will give me no satisfaction to say "I told you so" when socialized medicine has fully done it's intended work. I'm glad you have a semi-workable system now (until it collapses from too many parasites on too few hosts) but when America (the last domino to fall) succumbs to socialized medicine, then we will see the real effect.