"It's Like Something Out Of The Third World"

Originally posted by sickofitall2012
reply to post by Heike

 

Since your not in health care, I'll cut you some slack because boy are you wrong about insurance companies!! I have been in health care for almost 20yrs. The insurance companies are the crooks.

Huh? I carefully re-read my own post twice after reading yours and I still don't see where I said a single GOOD thing about the insurance companies. In fact, if you read my WHOLE post I suggested eliminating the insurance companies - and their micro-management of patient care - entirely.

Facts, however, remain facts. Doctors and surgeons DO get paid per patient, per treatment, per procedure. With very few exceptions, they are not on salary. If they want more money, they have to see more patients or do more surgeries. So you have been in health care for 20 years. I have been a victim of health care for over 25 years (since I got out of the military), and I have seldom found a doctor that actually cared about me. They just want to give me a quick fix and get rid of me so they can get on to the next patient. At least a dozen times in the past 10 years I have been right about what I needed or what was wrong with me, and the doctor was wrong. But not one ever apologized or changed their attitude about my "opinions" about my own care.

Just one example: My primary care physician tried to force me to take Crestor because he said my cholesterol was high. I finally demanded - and got - a proper fasting cholesterol test and guess what, my "bad" cholesterol is only 150. He threatened to drop me as a patient if I refused to take an expensive and potentially harmful drug that I didn't need. And all he said when the tests came back was "We'll take the Crestor off of your medications list." Yeah, doctors are great.

Right now the insurance companies (in America) pay for a large portion of the insureds' health care cost. There are so many "exclusions" as make it essentially worthless. I was with one insurance company years ago that basically said, "if you need healthcare of any sort, it's not covered under your policy."

Now imagine if the government, aka "socialized medicine", becomes the insurance company. "You're over 50? Developed a chronic condition? Going to start being a drain on resources? You're not covered for actually living long enough to get sick." Or how 'bout you've got AIDS, cancer, in need of a kidney transplant? "Oh you're definitely too expensive! Plus you can't work AND need disability in addition to health care for the rest of your life? You gotta go!"

Here's a scenario: The economy is failing, homelessness and joblessness is increasing, the natives are getting restless. The government of a socialized healthcare system who is the only payor to the doctors/nurses, etc. decides that being homeless and jobless and restless "disqualifies" you from receiving health care. Shut up and take your lot in life or die.

Think that's too far-fetched? Can't/won't happen? The government has already shown its track record. If you're poor enough to qualify for food stamps then the government (who took money out of my pocket to pay for your food stamps) has already decided that you must have a working refrigerator and stove in order to receive the food stamps. Sounds reasonable on the surface but if you're homeless, how are you going to get a stove and refrigerator and where are you going to put it?

We had the best health care system in the world at one time and then DRG's were introduced. By the government. For the insurance companies. DRG stands for "diagnosis related group". Basically, it stated that if you have a cold, fever, weakness so severe you can't stand up then you're not sick enough to be in the hospital and you can just stay home and drink your chicken soup. If you have a home. More importantly, it said that if you have a particular diagnosis then you have a specified amount of time to recover. After that specific amount of time the insurance company will consider you a slacker, a drain on resources, the weakest link....pick one, and will quit paying your healthcare provider. In those awful early days we saw people who were literally green being wheeled out of the hospital, puking the entire trip to their car, dumped out on the sidewalk and told, "good luck". Healthcare providers rebelled and began making up "complications" so that the ill person could stay until they were well enough to actually be discharged. The government cried "fraud" and introduced HMO's.

HMO's actually got more money for NOT treating you. It was preventative medicine based (which is futile considering that we're being poisoned with our food, water, fluoride, etc. ad nauseum.) The HMO insurance providers would pay for immunizations (thanks for the autism), yearly gynecological and breast exams. If you developed a palpable lump one month after your alloted yearly exam you had to wait until the following year to get another one paid for. Most women were beyond treatment for their breast cancer by then. Most HMO's were doctor-owned businesses. They had a yearly allotment set aside for diagnostic tests. If there was any money at the end of the year from that fund, it was split up evenly among the doctors/business owners. Guess how many diagnostic tests were performed? If you insisted on a diagnostic test (rather than hoping the doctors' diagnostic skills in the area of clinical symptoms only was adequate) then you had to get a referral from that doctor to be allowed to go to a competitor (another doctor) and hope it wasn't another HMO doctor.

Then the Medicare changes came along and the elderly on fixed incomes were forced to go back to work to afford their overmedicated existence.

Then Hillary Clinton and Donna Shalala (2 unelected "officials") told the American people: It's none of the people's business what we're doing. (behind closed doors regarding Americans healthcare). All combined, we now have the "healthcare crisis".

And you still want the government to take charge of your healthcare? Even now, when I call 911 for an ambulance to pick up one of our elderly nursing home patients, they ALWAYS ask, "how old are they?"!!!!!!!Now what the hell difference does that make? Honestly. Here the guy is having a full blown obvious heart attack and the operator will wait patiently while I run for his chart to look up the guys age. They will NOT dispatch an ambulance until they have that information. What could possibly be the reason for a 911 operator to refuse to send an ambulance until they know the patient's age? Are we being geared to accept that some people are just too old to be worth saving? btw, I have learned to quickly blurt out "they're 48" rather than waste time getting their chart. If I get busted for lying to the 911 operator, they can sue me. I'd love to see that one in court.

Another piece of interesting news is that bioethics committees (yes, they do really exist) are developing a "do not enter" criteria for ER's. If you have a Glasgow scale (a neurological assessment) of 3 (basically brain dead by clinical symptoms) then there's no point treating you. Makes sense you say? We had a guy come into the ER with a Glasgow of 3 who had ingeniously been poisoned by his wife. The poison was reversible with proper treatment and the wife was arrested. If the bioethics committee criteria had been in effect when he came in he would have needlessly died and a killer would be at large.

The healthcare "crisis" in this country is due to a system of errors. A system mucked up by our government. I do not trust them to "reform" it. I think it will be used to decide who lives and who dies. I think that will eventually apply in Canada and the EU as well.

Originally posted by burdman30ott6

Originally posted by Wotan

Originally posted by In nothing we trust

Originally posted by Lostinthedarkness
We have Native Americans working for us they can go to the Dr with a 1/2 day wait.

Oh yeah, I forgot about them. We pay for thier FREE healthcare as well.

And so you bloody well should. They were there before you were.

Well, we were here before the illegal aliens, yet we're paying fully for their health care as well. Got any thoughts or comments to that one?

I'm tired of getting squeezed from every angle.

I'm tired of picking up the bill for rich people, poor people, illegal people, old people, lazy government lackys, etc. About the only ones I don't actually mind paying for are our military.

I'm just tired.

And we have nothing.

Cut everyone off.

[edit on 7-8-2008 by In nothing we trust]

reply to post by amazed


Government has proven itself incapable of running anything efficiently. Healthcare is the last thing any government should be in charge of.

Need proof? Look at the DMV.

You equate making profits with poor service. Poor service means a business wont be in business for very long. Evidently business knowledge isnt your area of expertise.

Originally posted by Jenna
From the inscription on the statue of Liberty:

"Keep, ancient lands, your storied pomp!" cries she
With silent lips. "Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"

Sure looks like it says your tired, your poor, those who want freedom, wretched would have to be the poor (and those are the ones most likely to get sick), and the homeless, to me. I would say that counts as the sick and weak... Can't seem to find anything about wanting the strong so we can kill each other though...

Yeah thats' great.

The sick, homeless and the weak can pay for thier own healthcare. Hows that.

The statue of liberty was given to us by the socialist French, more than a century after America was founded. That inscription has nothing to do with the principles upon which it was founded.

America was founded upon the principle of small government, low tax burdens, no government intrusions and basically upon the general belief that we all just want to be left alone to do as we wish.

Now the weak and the poor are welcome to come here so long as they don't ask for nothin. Giving should be a choice not an obligation. Everyone is this damn country wants somethin for nothin.

[edit on 7-8-2008 by In nothing we trust]

reply to post by In nothing we trust


The sooner you start thinking and caring about everyone else, instead of just yourself, the sooner you will become a much happier person. Having that kind of mentality is the reason why you feel the way you do. No one else is doing anything to you. You are doing it to yourself.



[edit on 7-8-2008 by metro]

I am getting so SICK of media brain washing every one on the evils of health care for every one .

It is plainly evident the rich can afford health care . And the poor in most states have a form of public health care . Its the middle incomes that are having it the hardest .

You should do some research on how insurance companies HMOs denies treatment for many people. needed tests needed treatments all in favor of the bottom line . People with preexisting conditions that may need maintenance drugs ore often excluded from affordable health care .

By some of the remarks made in this post many will never research it they are cold hearted and brain washed by the big insurance and pharma and dont care about any one but them selves they are the type who walk my a rape and mugging in NYC central park and not lift as finger to call the cops let alone help

Our companies health care went from 60 / month to near 700 / m in the span of 8 years . Needless to say a small company cant afford that . we did get a raise to help the offset for insurance but trying too get it on your own is out of the question . When the economy gets tight health insurance gets cut most of the time .

Those of you in your IVORY TOWERS need to step out of it once in a while and see whats going on instead of regurgitating the insurance . big pharmacy media bulloney that they keep brain washing every one to believe their pack of lies .

Of course they will lie and do and say any thing to keep their sacred cash cow alive longer than the subscribers are . As long as they can keep milking it for every penny they can squeeze out of us and any one else

Read these

findarticles.com...
findarticles.com...
www.pnhp.org...
www.medicinenet.com...
www.guaranteedhealthcare.org...
www.sfgate.com.../c/a/2008/06/23/MNUK11C28G.DTL
www.nytimes.com...

See how they are protecting the health care system what they really are doing is protecting their bottom line at you me and everyone else's expense and we trust these crooks with our lives ?

totally brain washed

I use to be a dyed in the wool republican . And totally brain washed till I opened my eyes and saw what was going on around me

Originally posted by metro
You are doing it to yourself.

And just what is it that you think that I am doing to myself?

It looks like it's just going to get worse, and since none of this is making the nightly news, I guess the government and media's way of handling the problem is to pretend that it doesn't exist.

You think there are healthcare problems now? Wait until the large numbers of newly obese Americans start hitting middle age and the golden years.

The situation is really a national emergency and a threat to national security.

reply to post by Quazga


It's not stealing if they pay for it later. Besides, if they are that poor, they already have Medicaid or whatever state program that provides them with healthcare coverage.

I'm haven't said that we don't have issues with healthcare in the US. I just don't think that FEDGOV, with it's amazing record of social successes, is the smart choice when it comes to solving them. Some companies in the medical industry are corrupt and do illegal things. But when it's a private enterprise at least you have choices. When FEDGOV runs the whole industry, then what choice will you have?

In know that this is inconsequential to most, but a NHS is unconstitutional. Amend it and so be it. Until then, find another way.

Eric

PS You never answered then question about the third-world conditions by which you are surrounded.

Originally posted by Wotan

Originally posted by dontreadonme

Originally posted by Wotan
This is like talking to a brick wall or an endless tape machine that keeps repeating the same old lines over and over.

Amen to that! You guys are getting really annoying with all of this NHS stuff. :p

I tell you what. You stay over there with your NHS. We'll stay over here with our outdated, unenlightened and uncompassionate private one and we'll leave it at that. Deal?

We're not Eurpeans and you're not Americans. Isn't diversity what makes the world go round?

Eric

Hey no problem.

You are right about one thing. We Europeans are different to you Americans. One day, you'll realise why. Until then, enjoy playing Russian Roulette with your health.

I have finished with this thread. Have a nice life ....... while you can afford one.

Thanks.

Call us the next time you need us to cancel your mandatory German language classes.

I'm an American. I have a GREAT life.

Eric

Well ....according to some of you on here since I am disabled, unemployed and can't afford health care I should just die off and save you the bucks...thanks for for your honesty - I've often thought that the Eskimos had the right idea - leave Granny out on the ice flow and let the food chain take care of her....cause that nasty universal health care idea would lead one to think that someone actually gave a sh!t whether they lived or died...in point of fact Icare whether I live or die so to those of you who do give a rats A$$ - I thank you from the bottom of my heart and the rest of you can slither back to your counting houses and that black hole you call a soul...sorry, mods if thats out of line but I have to call like I see it...and I see a generation of vipers...
that is all.

reply to post by realshanti


No one says you deserve to die.. they are saying they don't deserve to suffer for your own inabilities..

You have to see it from their perspective to .. the more money you make, the more people want to take. I have known people who get raises and end up making less because of taxes..

Does America have a health care problem? Yes .. but I believe it can be fixed with regulations, and not with hyper tax increases on the Middle Class..

Why not pass a bill to regulate the % of inflation within this sector of the economy? Currently it increases at 25% inflation of health care prices per calender year.. easy fix right there, and look, you didn't have to tax anyone for it.

reply to post by realshanti


Why should anyone else be forced to pay for your problems?

It isn't the job,duty, or obligation of anyone to take care of you simply because they can afford it.

reply to post by realshanti


This is what I'm talking about.

Either you support NHS or you want poor, unemployed, disabled people to die.

Sorry about your misfortunes. Have you tried asking FEDGOV for help? They have literally thousands ofprograms in place to help people just like you.

Eric

reply to post by Rockpuck


I get what your saying but there is some very unfortunate rhetoric on here that in fact leads to the logical conclusion I stated in my previous post - however please understand - I worked my ass off and paid into this system for over forty years...I had to share what I had with others just like the rest of you....I thought it was expected of me as a caring citizen of a great nation...I looked at it as a way to help others in need...I have watched the profit pirates destroy our health care system, and turn our nation from a producing nation into a consumer nightmare and now am told I am at fault because my frailties are too much of a burden for my brothers and sisters to bear....the ice flow is starting to look better and better... reform is certainly desperately needed and I have absolute faith that a way will be made but I truly marvel at the fear (for what else could it be but fear) that drives some people to be so cold....

Originally posted by marg6043
reply to post by In nothing we trust

 

Yes but instead without our permission our for the people elected government bails out the corrupted banking system With our tax payer money.

You've got that right Marg.

Furthermore, this government, who works FOR US...and whom WE PAY, has the very best healthcare available...we are paying for perks for them that we cannot even afford for ourselves.

I work. I cannot work any harder, but I cannot afford the coverage.

And before some uninformed poster tells me to better myself by getting an education, I've done that. I have two degrees, but I consider myself lucky to have my job even without benefits. The real world for most of us doesn't look so rosy. Welcome to bush's amerika.

reply to post by ShadowEyes


I am no fan of Bush by any means, but calling the current problems a result of GWB is just plain retarded.

This country was FUBAR'd long before that douchebag took office.