"It's Like Something Out Of The Third World"

Ick you are an elitist, not all poor people eat badly and lay about on their arses. The fact you could just make such a blanket statement is shocking.



Please clarify, is universal healthcare different to socialised healthcare? Because socialised healthcare is for everyone here int he UK, no one pays for it other than their taxes. I'll tell you why you should pay, because it actually saves the government money having a system like the NHS instead of a private insurance based model.



Again ignorance. Some people are already at their threshhold of possible income, they can't go to college because they are already working so hard there isn't any spare time. I'm not one of those people i should add i'm just well aware of the realities.



Really america does that huh? So what aobut the hundreds, nay thousands of stories and personal accounts of people who were thrown out of hospitals when they couldn't pay? they were often dumped at free clinics, often run by charities.



You got lucky because it isn't always that way. Whist the government says they'll cover anything i have read multiple accouns where they tried to charge desperate people. In a social healthcare system, this doesn't happen.



I'm confused, you keep extolling the virtues of your system and then say it needs a lot of work. The socialised system here in the UK isn't perfect either, however it is a lot better i think after having experienced it. The good thing about social healthcare is that the doctors don't have to consult insurance companies before they get things done. They can concentrate ont he best care for the patient and the patient doesn't have to worry about the bill and can concentrate on getting well.



Ick, so because i'm not from america my opinion is absolutely pointless? Even though i've experienced a socialised system and so may have some insight? You talk about ignorance and come out with that statement, amazing.



Actually i am well versed in your system, have read an awful lot about it, know people who've been through it and so yeah i know enough to comment. If you knw anything about our system then please feel free to talk about it and we'll see how much you know and cover the issues.



Yep you do have some, but every year people often slip through the cracks and get no care. Also people without emergency problems are often completely overlooked. That's the difference in a pirvate healthcare and a socialised healthcare system. Social healthcare cncentrates on quality of life, private healthcare concentrates on quality of life for those that can pay, and just being alive for those that can't.




Here in the socialised system of the UK you can pick whoever you want to see. Honestly you just have to ask your doctor and you can see anyone, as long as the doctor you want to see isn't under any kind of investigation or disciplinary order.



I'm speaking the truth, i'm talking fromt he point of view of someone who knows the social system very well. You should surely see all points of view before making up your mind, anything else is ignorance surely?




Erm that's how socialised healthcare works i can promise you. I've had CT, MRI and other scans simply by insisting upon them.



Well i've called the current UK government many of those things but lets be clear shall we. Whilst the government funds the NHS it is the doctors, nurses and managers who eventually decide how it's spent and how the care is given. So the government, whst infecting the organisation, has onlya small role in the actual care of patients.



Then stop bitching as you call it, write your congressman or state senator. I've done that, written my MP and local councillors.



I'm very glad we can agree on something.

Well, Im coming to this conversation late so Im just going to throw my two cents out there.
Im a staunch libertarian as far as the economy is concerned. I hate seeing the government interfere with the medical sector or any industry at all. However, I've recently been swayed to universal healthcare for several reasons.

When people say "a freemarket solution would foster competition", youve got to think about it like its another service. Do police forces need more competition to make them perform well? What about fireman for that matter? Of course, there are public schools and private schools, but in that analogy, no one is calling for the shutdown of private MD practices. If you want to pay premium, no one is stopping you.

I for one am in the military and thus under TRICare(the Government health plan). I pay a small amount every month (in comparison to the extortionate amounts others pay) and have been VERY satisfied with it across the board (dental included). So when people say things, as I used to, like "look at Katrina-do you think the Gov Health can do any better than FEMA?" or such, yes TRIcare has flaws, but it supports several million people successfully - and if you dont like it, you can always get supplemental insurance.

Basically what Im getting at is, it just makes sense to have a national health care plan. The cost may spike initially, but in the long run, it will be well worth it.

PS, nice Guild Wars avatar Wotan. Ranger?

Haha, very observant. Yes of course a ranger (Dana Hawkeye - Guild DVDF).

Sorry off topic.

This calculation bothers me...But maybe I am crazy.

With a salary like that I would (actually 'could') not have a second child (probably not even the first one!). I want my kid or kids to have a nice life...Not a life in poverty. So bringing children into this...Isn't that a choice people make?

"I have no money whatsoever...But let's take two kids and then complain it's so expensive!" I think this is a rather silly way of thinking. And of course I have thought of all those 'god fearing' people that just have to take kids because birth-control is the devil.

But this only reminded me of how silly one must be to believe in a god. The facts regarding this subject again show this...

Isn't the first step in getting/staying out of trouble not to have that second child? Or when you are in deep s*** already to not even have the first? And yes...I mean that with a salary like in the calculation here, you are in deep s***.

And please don't come with things like; 'but mankind? What about mankind, we must have kids otherwise it is all over!?'. It is not like all these people think about the well being of mankind when they f*** their brains out (again).

There are too much people on this little earth already, so we don't need kids that much...And certainly not when these kids grow up waiting for their teeth to get pulled at some free annual health care day.

I know this could sound a bit ignorant and maybe even mean...But please...Only do things you can afford! Or are condoms also very expensive?

What I do give you, beforetime, is that it's crazy there is so much help for children in (other) third world countries, while you're own country is suffering. Crazy! But usually when I say things like this...I am told that I am being crazy...

Also when I say that when Barack is president, the picture of a third world country is complete.

You need to understand however that a Government's job is to balance National Issues. For instance, you can pour all of a Nation's finances into bolstering the Economy, but then National Security suffers as a result. On the other hand, you may pour all funds into interests of National Security, but then the Economy might very well suffer as a result. It is all a balancing act, and dependent upon the times. Right now, tipping the scale towards a National Security biased is of a greater importance.