Why is everyone afraid of a place called HELL?

Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by lonewolf19792000

 

It is impossible for sin to get into heaven, you either ask Jesus to forgive you of your sins (confess) and then accept him. You cannot be covered by the blood of Christ after you die

Everyone is "covered" by the blood since Jesus died for all. The blood was to end the old system of sin and death. Jesus used his blood to inaugurate the new system where sin is allowed to pass, under certain requirements, such as following the guidance of the Holy Spirit, into getting away from constantly sinning.

Christs blood was to end the sacraficial laws...Hence the Lamb of God...There is one other reason though.

Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by Lazarus Short

 

This is God's great "Alle, alle, all in free!" Even those who suffer the second death will be saved sometime in the far future. I think it will be 1,000 Jubilee Cycles from Creation, or about 43,000 AD, but I can't prove it.

I don't think you need to go into all that to make your point.
Revelation is full of symbolism, such as the angel holding stars in his hand saying, 'these are the churches'. Symbolism on top of symbolism, where someone can not hold a handful of stars, and a church can not be a star.
If you look at the word for, torment, in relationship to the lake of fire, you see that the word comes from the practice of using a certain stone by that name (the Greek word in the text, not the translation), to test gold and silver to see if it was pure, by rubbing the piece of metal in question, on the face of the stone. Also the nature of the fire with brimstone goes with the old technique of refining gold. So you could think of the whole scene as being symbolic of there being some further processing of people to get them up to the standards that are to be expected to be able to maintain a paradise, to keep it as such.

edit on 8-10-2011 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)

The Bible says that Satan will be thrown into the "lake of fire" forever and ever. Do you think God is going to purify him as well?

Here are more questions answered regarding the meaning/translation of the "lake of fire". Notice how words like forever are used in the attached Bible verses.

www.gotquestions.org...

The Bible makes it clear that the Great White Throne Judgement is the FINAL judgement.

www.gotquestions.org...

reply to post by Glockroshin

Christs blood was to end the sacraficial laws...Hence the Lamb of God...There is one other reason though.

I agree. Christ's blood negates the debt we must pay for our sins.

Romans 6:23 "for the wages of sin is death"

According to the OT those who sinned were to be put to death. However i think the Israelites got that a little backwards. I believe that the true meaning behind those words was that the wages of sinning was the spiritual death. Unless you were a priest going into the Holy of Holies with impure thoughts (sinful thoughts) whereupon God would strike you dead, which was why the priests, when they entered the Holy of Holies always wore a red scarf tied around an ankle so that the other priests could pull him out if God killed him on the spot. God does not like sin, sin in his presence gets destroyed (the Holy of Holies was the one place where sin was never allowed, it was basically God's throne on earth, the Throne of Judgement on earth). Where Christ's blood comes into play is it is the ultimate blood sacrifice, paying our sin debt for all eternity, past, present and future, so that we do not have to die. In essence when we sin, because of the blood of Jesus, that sin is negated, like it never happened.

If you asked a hebrew in Jesus' time what the definition of sin was he would tell you "the breaking of God's law" (the Old Testament). Do you still have to obey the old laws as believers? Yes you do and you should because Jesus said "I am not come to do away with the old law, but to fulfill it", because to no longer follow the Law would result in lawlessness (chaos and anarchy and sinfulness). All the bible really is, is the written laws of God. Jesus is the Living Word, the literal bible in the flesh and God in the flesh and it is his will that we obey his laws.

John 14:15 Jesus said "if you love me you will keep my commandments"

www.frtommylane.com...

Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by Lazarus Short

 

This is God's great "Alle, alle, all in free!" Even those who suffer the second death will be saved sometime in the far future. I think it will be 1,000 Jubilee Cycles from Creation, or about 43,000 AD, but I can't prove it.

I don't think you need to go into all that to make your point.
Revelation is full of symbolism, such as the angel holding stars in his hand saying, 'these are the churches'. Symbolism on top of symbolism, where someone can not hold a handful of stars, and a church can not be a star.
If you look at the word for, torment, in relationship to the lake of fire, you see that the word comes from the practice of using a certain stone by that name (the Greek word in the text, not the translation), to test gold and silver to see if it was pure, by rubbing the piece of metal in question, on the face of the stone. Also the nature of the fire with brimstone goes with the old technique of refining gold. So you could think of the whole scene as being symbolic of there being some further processing of people to get them up to the standards that are to be expected to be able to maintain a paradise, to keep it as such.

edit on 8-10-2011 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)

Yes! Yes! You've got it!! This is the crux of the matter:

Is the Lake of Fire a place of punishment and retribution?

Or - is the LOF a place of annihilation?

Or - is the LOF a place of purification?

Given the references to refining metals, as you mention, I opt for the latter view, although the first two operate also, as being cast into the LOF results in the second death, and therefore annihilation, but if Universal Reconciliation is correct, and it is, the purification is the ultimate goal.

Jmdewey shoots! He scores!!

Lonewolf states:

"Youre preaching doctrines of devils bro. Youre going to see alot of people into hell leading them with those lies. I strongly advise you to rethink Universalism. It aint gonna be pretty when all these people you have lied to end up in hell because they followed your false doctrine thinking that they do not have to ask Christ for forgiveness and accept him as Lord and Savior before they die."

I agree with you that accepting Jesus as Lord and Savior in the here and now will save people from a world of hurt, but if those who do not so so are eternally lost, then the Plan of Salvation seems to have failed. I can only assume that you have seen that Plan written on stone. Is this really the Good News, that most of humanity will go to everlasting fiery punishment for the sins of a single lifetime? Again, God never prescribes any punishment worse than simple death, and that was only to remove evil from the midst of society. In the New Testament writings, banishment from the congregation seems to be the worst thing invoked, unless God made an example of some sinner. My Good News is better - you are going to the Kingdom, but you'd better repent now, so you won't miss out on anything and have to pay dearly for your sins. Eventual salvation, yes, but sins must be paid for if not covered by the blood of Jesus.

Universal Reconciliation is a clumsy term, but I use it so no one will think I am a Unitarian Universalist. Universal Reconciliation was taught in the first few centuries of the Christian era, but was supplanted as pagan ideas filtered in. This doctrine has now been resurrected.

PS - I used the link you provided, printed the article, and will read it. I don't expect to be convinced, but I will keep an open mind.

reply to post by Deetermined

The Bible says that Satan will be thrown into the "lake of fire" forever and ever. Do you think God is going to purify him as well?

The Bible makes it clear that the Great White Throne Judgement is the FINAL judgement.

Wrong . . and, wrong.
The smoke goes up forever . . and, it could not be too clear since the two words do not appear in the same verse.

Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by Deetermined

 

The Bible says that Satan will be thrown into the "lake of fire" forever and ever. Do you think God is going to purify him as well?

The Bible makes it clear that the Great White Throne Judgement is the FINAL judgement.

Wrong . . and, wrong.
The smoke goes up forever . . and, it could not be too clear since the two words do not appear in the same verse.

No, he is correct. The verse clearly says:
The Devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and sulfur where the beast and the false prophet are, and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever. Revelation 20:10

They will be the only ones who will be in there forever. Man, that's a different story.

reply to post by Glockroshin

Christs blood was to end the sacraficial laws...Hence the Lamb of God...There is one other reason though.

John the Baptist called Jesus, The Lamb of God.
He adds, "who takes away the sin of the world."

It does not explain exactly how Jesus does this but if you look at the syntax of the clause, it looks like, sin as one thing vs. individual sins, and on a global scale. There is nothing about dealing with an individual's personal sins, one at a time.

reply to post by Lazarus Short
In order to refute it, you would have to have a verse that says something like:
And from the second death none shall ever return, thus saith the prophet in the name of the Lord.

What I do find is something quite the opposite,

Deuteronomy 32: 26 & 27

“I said, ‘I want to cut them in pieces.
I want to make people forget they ever existed.
But I fear the reaction of their enemies,
for their adversaries would misunderstand
and say, “Our power is great,
and the Lord has not done all this!”

reply to post by Lazarus Short

Given the references to refining metals, as you mention, I opt for the latter view, although the first two operate also, as being cast into the LOF results in the second death, and therefore annihilation, but if Universal Reconciliation is correct, and it is, the purification is the ultimate goal.

You do not know that. Universalism is not what the scriptures teach. If you die in sin, you go to hell unless you accept Christ as Lord and Savior first before you die. The whole point of confession is to do it before you die because once you croak it is over. So youre really going to sit there and call God a liar?

Romans 6:23 "For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord."

Hello??? What part of "death" do you not understand? When you go into the LoF that is it buddy, you are toast for eternity, there is no "purification". God gives you millions and millions of chances before you die and those are all you get.You are preaching lies and deceit and you are leading these people right into Satan's grubby hands. To deny Jesus Christ in this life is to reject him and the Holy Spirit, and rejection of the Holy Spirit is the unforgiveable sin that will not be forgiven in this life or the next.

Luke 12 :8-10 “I tell you, whoever acknowledges me before men, the Son of Man will also acknowledge him before the angels of God. But he who disowns me before men will be disowned before the angels of God. And everyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but anyone who blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven.”

link below:

www.lifeofchrist.com...

This is the way it is. If you reject Jesus Christ in this life you blasphemy the truth of the Holy Spirit that Jesus Christ is Lord, and that is the end of you for eternity. You get no forgiveness in this life or the next once you die, you are done. There are no 2 more chances after death. That is a lie and you are blatantly preaching lies and false doctrines, and we know what the Lord says about false prophets, providing you took the time to read the truth of His words.

Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by Deetermined

 

The Bible says that Satan will be thrown into the "lake of fire" forever and ever. Do you think God is going to purify him as well?

The Bible makes it clear that the Great White Throne Judgement is the FINAL judgement.

Wrong . . and, wrong.
The smoke goes up forever . . and, it could not be too clear since the two words do not appear in the same verse.

Revelation 20:10

10 "and the devil who had deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and sulfur where the beast and the false prophet were, and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever."

Originally posted by Lazarus Short

Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by Lazarus Short

 

This is God's great "Alle, alle, all in free!" Even those who suffer the second death will be saved sometime in the far future. I think it will be 1,000 Jubilee Cycles from Creation, or about 43,000 AD, but I can't prove it.

I don't think you need to go into all that to make your point.
Revelation is full of symbolism, such as the angel holding stars in his hand saying, 'these are the churches'. Symbolism on top of symbolism, where someone can not hold a handful of stars, and a church can not be a star.
If you look at the word for, torment, in relationship to the lake of fire, you see that the word comes from the practice of using a certain stone by that name (the Greek word in the text, not the translation), to test gold and silver to see if it was pure, by rubbing the piece of metal in question, on the face of the stone. Also the nature of the fire with brimstone goes with the old technique of refining gold. So you could think of the whole scene as being symbolic of there being some further processing of people to get them up to the standards that are to be expected to be able to maintain a paradise, to keep it as such.

edit on 8-10-2011 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)

Yes! Yes! You've got it!! This is the crux of the matter:

Is the Lake of Fire a place of punishment and retribution?

Or - is the LOF a place of annihilation?

Or - is the LOF a place of purification?

Given the references to refining metals, as you mention, I opt for the latter view, although the first two operate also, as being cast into the LOF results in the second death, and therefore annihilation, but if Universal Reconciliation is correct, and it is, the purification is the ultimate goal.

Jmdewey shoots! He scores!!

What we do know, is that after you've been judged and sent to hell, there is no way to cross back over.

Luke 16:25-26

25 “But Abraham replied, ‘Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, while Lazarus received bad things, but now he is comforted here and you are in agony. 26 And besides all this, between us and you a great chasm has been set in place, so that those who want to go from here to you cannot, nor can anyone cross over from there to us.’

Originally posted by Deetermined

Originally posted by Lazarus Short

Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by Lazarus Short

 

This is God's great "Alle, alle, all in free!" Even those who suffer the second death will be saved sometime in the far future. I think it will be 1,000 Jubilee Cycles from Creation, or about 43,000 AD, but I can't prove it.

I don't think you need to go into all that to make your point.
Revelation is full of symbolism, such as the angel holding stars in his hand saying, 'these are the churches'. Symbolism on top of symbolism, where someone can not hold a handful of stars, and a church can not be a star.
If you look at the word for, torment, in relationship to the lake of fire, you see that the word comes from the practice of using a certain stone by that name (the Greek word in the text, not the translation), to test gold and silver to see if it was pure, by rubbing the piece of metal in question, on the face of the stone. Also the nature of the fire with brimstone goes with the old technique of refining gold. So you could think of the whole scene as being symbolic of there being some further processing of people to get them up to the standards that are to be expected to be able to maintain a paradise, to keep it as such.

edit on 8-10-2011 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)

Yes! Yes! You've got it!! This is the crux of the matter:

Is the Lake of Fire a place of punishment and retribution?

Or - is the LOF a place of annihilation?

Or - is the LOF a place of purification?

Given the references to refining metals, as you mention, I opt for the latter view, although the first two operate also, as being cast into the LOF results in the second death, and therefore annihilation, but if Universal Reconciliation is correct, and it is, the purification is the ultimate goal.

Jmdewey shoots! He scores!!

What we do know, is that after you've been judged and sent to hell, there is no way to cross back over.

Luke 16:25-26

25 “But Abraham replied, ‘Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, while Lazarus received bad things, but now he is comforted here and you are in agony. 26 And besides all this, between us and you a great chasm has been set in place, so that those who want to go from here to you cannot, nor can anyone cross over from there to us.’

Is annihilationism Biblical?

www.gotquestions.org...


Ooops! Wrong one, but I'll leave it in there anyway.

Is Ultimate Reconciliation Biblical?

www.gotquestions.org...



"It is sobering to remember that the first doctrine to be denied in Scripture is judgment. The Bible records Satan saying to Eve, “You surely will not die!” (Genesis 3:4). Unfortunately, many Universalists feel the same way and deny that an eternal separation from God is a reality for anyone who refuses Christ as their savior. But simply put, those who reject Jesus Christ in this life will have their request honored also in the next.

The doctrine of ultimate reconciliation or universalism may be appealing to human sensibilities, but it is simply wrong and unbiblical. Scripture teaches that beyond this life, there are no second chances. Instead, the Bible declares, “Today is the day of salvation” (2 Corinthians 6:2). Love does indeed win for those who turn by faith to Christ in this life and embrace Him as Savior. Those who don’t and dismiss the concept of hell will find out eternity is an awfully long time to be wrong. As writer Os Guinness puts it, “For some, hell is simply a truth realized too late.”

Originally posted by jhill76

Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by Deetermined

 

The Bible says that Satan will be thrown into the "lake of fire" forever and ever. Do you think God is going to purify him as well?

The Bible makes it clear that the Great White Throne Judgement is the FINAL judgement.

Wrong . . and, wrong.
The smoke goes up forever . . and, it could not be too clear since the two words do not appear in the same verse.

No, he is correct. The verse clearly says:
The Devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and sulfur where the beast and the false prophet are, and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever. Revelation 20:10

They will be the only ones who will be in there forever. Man, that's a different story.

edit on 9-10-2011 by jhill76 because: (no reason given)

I was thinking of another passage in,
Revelation 14:9 - 11
A third angel followed the first two, declaring in a loud voice: “If anyone worships the beast and his image, and takes the mark on his forehead or his hand, that person will also drink of the wine of God’s anger that has been mixed undiluted in the cup of his wrath, and he will be tortured with fire and sulfur in front of the holy angels and in front of the Lamb. And the smoke from their torture will go up forever and ever, and those who worship the beast and his image will have no rest day or night, along with anyone who receives the mark of his name.”

I was in a little bit of a hurry when I wrote that because I had to go somewhere.

reply to post by jhill76

They will be the only ones who will be in there forever. Man, that's a different story.

Those who do not accept Christ get tossed into the lake of fire for all eternity. The price for sin is the same for man as it is for angels.

Matthew 25:42-46 "for I was hungry and you gave me no food, I was thirsty and you gave me no drink, 43 I was a stranger and you did not welcome me, naked and you did not clothe me, sick and in prison and you did not visit me.' 44 Then they also will answer, 'Lord, when did we see thee hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not minister to thee?' 45 Then he will answer them, 'Truly, I say to you, as you did it not to one of the least of these, you did it not to me.' 46 And they will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life."

The time that the unrighteous spend in hell is the same amount of time that the righteous spend in heaven. I'm sorry but this is the way it is. Once man goes into hell and the lake of fire, he stays there for eternity.

reply to post by lonewolf19792000


No where in the bible that it says man will be in there forever, that is an assumption. Jesus promises Life or Death, that's it. Eternal damnation has been preached and many just go with it, because it has been said so many times. What happens with man, is he will most definitely go down there, but, he will not be there forever. After the process (which is not included in revelations), he will perish or ceist to exist.

The physical death is the first death, The spiritual death is the second death. Also, it says reserved for his angels. What you don't know is about the angels who turn away from Satan, that's not included. But, since I don't have a source as some will point out, this one you will have to research, or ask Father to reveal.

I know some will say the angels don't have a soul and can't be saved. What happens to those angels is not the same as what happens to man.

Originally posted by TWISTEDWORDS
reply to post by newcovenant

 

I don't think i will have to worry about eating as I will be DEAD...and my stomach won't be needed anymore as I will be DEAD. Food will no longer be required for me.

I see subtleties and nuances are lost on you, you have no appreciation for our past history and what we've been told of Hell thus far. You are seemingly void of even reading skills or the prerequisite curiosity it takes to partake of life. You might already be dead.

reply to post by TWISTEDWORDS

Sounds like a fun place to mess with people for a long time.

I don't think (YOU) will have to worry about (MESSING WITH PEOPLE) as (YOU) will be DEAD...and (YOUR ABILITY TO MESS WITH ANYONE) won't be needed anymore as (YOU) will be DEAD.


Let's hope this is all true.

Originally posted by jhill76
reply to post by lonewolf19792000

 

No where in the bible that it says man will be in there forever, that is an assumption. Jesus promises Life or Death, that's it. Eternal damnation has been preached and many just go with it, because it has been said so many times. What happens with man, is he will most definitely go down there, but, he will not be there forever. After the process (which is not included in revelations), he will perish or ceist to exist.

The physical death is the first death, The spiritual death is the second death. Also, it says reserved for his angels. What you don't know is about the angels who turn away from Satan, that's not included. But, since I don't have a source as some will point out, this one you will have to research, or ask Father to reveal.

I know some will say the angels don't have a soul and can't be saved. What happens to those angels is not the same as what happens to man.

edit on 9-10-2011 by jhill76 because: (no reason given)

Dude its right thre in the bible for all to see. If you don't see it i am sorry. I already quoted the scripture where it says the unrighteous will burn for eternity. Unrighteous=the unsaved and those people who pretend to be chrsitans but are fake.

reply to post by lonewolf19792000


Sorry, but your quote does not say burn forever, it says eternal punishment. The second death is the killing of the soul, which indeed is eternal. What is the opposite of life: death. Christ says you only have two options: life or perish.