Is Jesus the only way to God?

reply to post by studythem1


studythem- It's not that simple or just guesswork. Example: The Old Testament contains hundreds of prophecies dealing with the Messiah, son of David, kingdom of God, etc etc. That Jesus fulfilled so many of these prophecies is mathematically impossible which points to the supernatural. Another example:

Daniel chapter 9 contains a detailed account of when Messiah would go into Jerusalem after the second temple was built. So after the second temple begins to go up....100,000 days later Messiah will go into Jerusalem. Jesus fulfilled this to the day which was outside his power since the prophecy was written at least 600 years before Jesus was born.

Isaac Newton knew this and wrote a commentary on Daniel where he shows the math work he did and how Jesus did fuflill the prophecy. According to Daniel, the Messiah had to come before 70ad. If its not Jesus, then who is it??

Originally posted by Elsha
reply to post by studythem1

 

yes....lol....the first link basically states that the Jews well preserved their text called the Masoretic Text and that the Samaritians had style differences. Of course they did, they didnt even worship in the Jerusalem Temple!?!

The other link of Sumeria.....what they have a flood account? They also have an account of the Annunaki etc etc. There ARE differences....

the creation, Cain and Abel, Noah, the flood, and much more...all more detailed...

and that was over 6000 years ago...

reply to post by AfterInfinity

In order to redefine, you must understand what the definition first was. None of us had done that yet.

I don't mean an informational definition.
I mean more like a transformation.
It's a bit complex.
Probably best to read Cosmology and Self in the Apostle Paul: The Material Spirit, for a full explanation.

reply to post by studythem1


all ancient civilizations have similar accounts. The Chinese character language system has depictions of the blood adam and eve serpents etc. This is similar to how many ancinet civilzations had similar worship systems or pyramids/ziggorots........serpant worship is found all over the world. It just shows the world back then was not a bunch of dumb cave men etc.

But the Sumerians did not have a monotheistic God as Creator. They had alien/overlords who created man as a slave race. They left on Nibiru/planet X and will be back in a few months apparently...

Originally posted by Elsha
reply to post by studythem1

 

Daniel chapter 9 contains a detailed account of when Messiah would go into Jerusalem after the second temple was built. So after the second temple begins to go up....100,000 days later Messiah will go into Jerusalem. Jesus fulfilled this to the day which was outside his power since the prophecy was written at least 600 years before Jesus was born.

Isaac Newton knew this and wrote a commentary on Daniel where he shows the math work he did and how Jesus did fuflill the prophecy. According to Daniel, the Messiah had to come before 70ad. If its not Jesus, then who is it??

so then he could not be the same as god...

he had power to raise the dead, but did not have the power to count 100,000 days? and probably did not read the book of Daniel either, but he was correcting the scribes and pharisees in the temple at age 12 on theology?

reply to post by studythem1


Jesus was God in the flesh but he did not depend on his deity while on earth. The gospels and the epistles teach this. So Jesus did not know everything while here on earth. Yes Jesus read Daniel but my point is that Jesus ministry lead up to his entrance on the exact day the scripture was to be fulfilled. Now maybe his ministry was ineffective or things could have come together where he did not enter Jerusalem that day being hailed as Messiah and Son of David but thats what happened and so he fulfilled the prophecy. Whether he counted it and figured it out makes no difference. If not him who else slipped in that day to fulfill the prophecy? Thats why I ask you, if not Jesus of Nazareth, then who else?

Originally posted by Elsha
reply to post by studythem1

 

all ancient civilizations have similar accounts. The Chinese character language system has depictions of the blood adam and eve serpents etc. This is similar to how many ancinet civilzations had similar worship systems or pyramids/ziggorots........serpant worship is found all over the world. It just shows the world back then was not a bunch of dumb cave men etc.

But the Sumerians did not have a monotheistic God as Creator. They had alien/overlords who created man as a slave race. They left on Nibiru/planet X and will be back in a few months apparently...

i dont believe in nibiru or planet x...as you say...i do think that these texts survived for a reason, and yes they did believe in a creator...but they were confused and thought that the people that made them were the creator...

Annunaki knew of and some worshiped the creator, but some chose to impersonate the creator...

the same Annunaki that lied to Adam and Eve, lied to others...

also these books corroborate DNA...which says that 7 daughters of eve originated in Africa...the tablet said that 6000 years ago, and DNA evidence proved it back at the end of the 90's...and then someone made the connection later...

but it makes more sense to me to believe a tablet that is closer to the event, than a parchment that is so far from the event, it has completely changed...

Originally posted by Elsha
reply to post by studythem1

 

Jesus was God in the flesh but he did not depend on his deity while on earth. The gospels and the epistles teach this. So Jesus did not know everything while here on earth. Yes Jesus read Daniel but my point is that Jesus ministry lead up to his entrance on the exact day the scripture was to be fulfilled. Now maybe his ministry was ineffective or things could have come together where he did not enter Jerusalem that day being hailed as Messiah and Son of David but thats what happened and so he fulfilled the prophecy. Whether he counted it and figured it out makes no difference. If not him who else slipped in that day to fulfill the prophecy? Thats why I ask you, if not Jesus of Nazareth, then who else?

the story of Jesus was first begun with mark...the oldest account of the gospel...in that account there was no virgin birth...that was added later...in other gospels...the epistles of Paul may or may not all be from him...more likely the doctrine of the trinity was added as a way to solve to problem of where to place Christ...and then later was canonized by the council of Nicaea...

im not disputing the existence of Jesus, or his fulfillment of prophecy, but there is very weak evidence to call him the creator in flesh...the flesh cannot contain the creator...only the life/spirit the creator gives...i believe that the titles he was given unlock who he was if we take them all together...the son of god, the son of man, and Emmanuel...or god with us...

the son of god= one whose spirit was put in them directly from the hand of the creator...the son of man = the DNA that was inserted into to egg as coming directly from Adam... and Emmanuel= the creator with us, meaning that Jesus showed us that the creator is with us, not in some ethereal place far far away...but with us in spirit and in truth...

flesh cannot contain the creator...it is not in the same dimension, and even if it was, it could not contain all of the life force that is the creator...it is a physical impossibility...we can only contain a fraction, a splinter, a grain of sand of the life force that comes from the creator...we cannot even stand in the presence of the creator as we are...but if we are changed to fit that dimension, we can stand in the presence...which has yet to occur...

i really must rest...this is very interesting to talk about which is why i am here, but i must rest...work begins early...

reply to post by Elsha

Fact is your post is correct. Not only do we have excellent historical backing to and for the New Testament....

Trouble is, we never get to see any of this historical backing. All we have is this to go by:


Q Document used by Constantine to Write the Roman Empire Universal Church’s New Testament

The New Testament Documents and the Historicity of the Resurrection

Q source

Originally posted by studythem1

Originally posted by Elsha
reply to post by studythem1

 

Jesus was God in the flesh but he did not depend on his deity while on earth. The gospels and the epistles teach this. So Jesus did not know everything while here on earth. Yes Jesus read Daniel but my point is that Jesus ministry lead up to his entrance on the exact day the scripture was to be fulfilled. Now maybe his ministry was ineffective or things could have come together where he did not enter Jerusalem that day being hailed as Messiah and Son of David but thats what happened and so he fulfilled the prophecy. Whether he counted it and figured it out makes no difference. If not him who else slipped in that day to fulfill the prophecy? Thats why I ask you, if not Jesus of Nazareth, then who else?

the story of Jesus was first begun with mark...the oldest account of the gospel...in that account there was no virgin birth...that was added later...in other gospels...the epistles of Paul may or may not all be from him...more likely the doctrine of the trinity was added as a way to solve to problem of where to place Christ...and then later was canonized by the council of Nicaea...

im not disputing the existence of Jesus, or his fulfillment of prophecy, but there is very weak evidence to call him the creator in flesh...the flesh cannot contain the creator...only the life/spirit the creator gives...i believe that the titles he was given unlock who he was if we take them all together...the son of god, the son of man, and Emmanuel...or god with us...

the son of god= one whose spirit was put in them directly from the hand of the creator...the son of man = the DNA that was inserted into to egg as coming directly from Adam... and Emmanuel= the creator with us, meaning that Jesus showed us that the creator is with us, not in some ethereal place far far away...but with us in spirit and in truth...

flesh cannot contain the creator...it is not in the same dimension, and even if it was, it could not contain all of the life force that is the creator...it is a physical impossibility...we can only contain a fraction, a splinter, a grain of sand of the life force that comes from the creator...we cannot even stand in the presence of the creator as we are...but if we are changed to fit that dimension, we can stand in the presence...which has yet to occur...

i really must rest...this is very interesting to talk about which is why i am here, but i must rest...work begins early...

edit on 23-7-2012 by studythem1 because: (no reason given)

So your view is that God can not become flesh if so chose? and that is why you think Christ was not God in the flesh? kind of weak if you ask me.....

reply to post by NihilistSanta


you must try and keep me awake???

ok, if you or i had immense power, we would probably do something just because we could...it is in our nature...

but the creator does not do that...

the creator does not need to exert power...only those who do not have power need to...

thats all... im going to bed...dont think cause you post something else after i went to bed you won the argument...

Originally posted by studythem1
reply to post by NihilistSanta

 

you must try and keep me awake???

ok, if you or i had immense power, we would probably do something just because we could...it is in our nature...

but the creator does not do that...

the creator does not need to exert power...only those who do not have power need to...

thats all... im going to bed...dont think cause you post something else after i went to bed you won the argument...

Haha I promise no outcomes will be decided

I will entertain your conjectures for a moment though to show the ridiculousness of where this goes.

Ok lets say the bible has been changed. Now how do you know it was changed for good or bad? How do you know that the evil church did not use reverse psychology (masters of manipulation amirite?) and not change the true message and instead use fear of them doing this to manipulate you into doing the opposite? Or better yet it is all lies or an inversion in which case God is the devil and the devil God.

This knowledge of course seems eerily similar to theosophy and the mindset of the elite, being a gnostic inversion of what Jesus himself tells us and people like Paul fought against it is not the truth.

All of those claims have the same amount of evidence to support them. Zilch . While the bible has mountains to support it yet you refuse to see that evidence because it does not align with your own preconceived notion.

In the end though if I understand your beliefs it is rather pointless for you to continue the discussion since the bible is all lies to keep us scared and therefore there is nothing to fear from ignorance or sin.

Also the creator not exerting power is again ridiculous with no support. He is called Creator for a reason. Creation is the exertion of force/energy to manifest will as a physical object/reality. To fashion something that did not exist into existence.

Originally posted by NihilistSanta
Ok lets say the bible has been changed. Now how do you know it was changed for good or bad? How do you know that the evil church did not use reverse psychology (masters of manipulation amirite?) and not change the true message and instead use fear of them doing this to manipulate you into doing the opposite? Or better yet it is all lies or an inversion in which case God is the devil and the devil God.

because Constantine used it to strike fear into his subjects and secure his power over them...he used it as a tool of oppression, that is where it changed from a spiritual movement to a religion...(bondage)

This knowledge of course seems eerily similar to theosophy and the mindset of the elite, being a gnostic inversion of what Jesus himself tells us and people like Paul fought against it is not the truth.

i do not ascribe to theosophy...i just do not ascribe to false doctrines that are called true by liars and then foisted on unsuspecting people who mean well but fall for the lie...

All of those claims have the same amount of evidence to support them. Zilch . While the bible has mountains to support it yet you refuse to see that evidence because it does not align with your own preconceived notion.

preconceived means that i did not study to find out the truth, i just had an idea regardless of what evidence i had in front of me...so now you are omniscient as well? truth is... i have studied for the last 12 years, which led me to question god, then shun god, and then... guess what brought me back to the creator of the universe? the Sumerian texts...of all things...DNA study...finding historical facts i had not even known about before, and several other things that show a much broader and taller mountain of evidence than a short 200-2000 year span of time...which is all the old testament and gospels have to back them up...so lets just ignore all of history? the whole world of history? and tons of DNA evidence? and archeological evidence? in favor of what compares to it as a small narrow minded pile of rubbish that supports only the bible? what about the rest of human history? what about the texts the bible copied from? what about DNA...the real handwriting of the creator?

In the end though if I understand your beliefs it is rather pointless for you to continue the discussion since the bible is all lies to keep us scared and therefore there is nothing to fear from ignorance or sin.

i never said it was all lies, but i did say it was full of lies...as in added to it, it is also redacted, and mistranslated in some cases...these things pose real problems, and if it is so important that the bible is accurate, dont you think Christians would make sure it was instead of purporting that it was when it was not? historically accurate is one thing, (as in having the correct peoples names in it for the time period...whoop de doo) but spiritually, it is lacking in accuracy...that is the problem...whenever evil men get a hold of something good they ruin it...they defile it...and the bible is no exception...for something so important that it is the blueprint for salvation, you would think it would be better guarded than it was...instead it was tailored by Constantine to be what he wanted it to be for his purposes...and he crushed anyone who defied his assertions about Jesus and anything else...that is what we all too often forget about the history of the modern bible...you cannot base truth off of a lie and that is what modern Christianity is still doing...

Originally posted by studythem1

Originally posted by NihilistSanta
Ok lets say the bible has been changed. Now how do you know it was changed for good or bad? How do you know that the evil church did not use reverse psychology (masters of manipulation amirite?) and not change the true message and instead use fear of them doing this to manipulate you into doing the opposite? Or better yet it is all lies or an inversion in which case God is the devil and the devil God.

because Constantine used it to strike fear into his subjects and secure his power over them...he used it as a tool of oppression, that is where it changed from a spiritual movement to a religion...(bondage)

This knowledge of course seems eerily similar to theosophy and the mindset of the elite, being a gnostic inversion of what Jesus himself tells us and people like Paul fought against it is not the truth.

i do not ascribe to theosophy...i just do not ascribe to false doctrines that are called true by liars and then foisted on unsuspecting people who mean well but fall for the lie...

All of those claims have the same amount of evidence to support them. Zilch . While the bible has mountains to support it yet you refuse to see that evidence because it does not align with your own preconceived notion.

preconceived means that i did not study to find out the truth, i just had an idea regardless of what evidence i had in front of me...so now you are omniscient as well? truth is... i have studied for the last 12 years, which led me to question god, then shun god, and then... guess what brought me back to the creator of the universe? the Sumerian texts...of all things...DNA study...finding historical facts i had not even known about before, and several other things that show a much broader and taller mountain of evidence than a short 200-2000 year span of time...which is all the old testament and gospels have to back them up...so lets just ignore all of history? the whole world of history? and tons of DNA evidence? and archeological evidence? in favor of what compares to it as a small narrow minded pile of rubbish that supports only the bible? what about the rest of human history? what about the texts the bible copied from? what about DNA...the real handwriting of the creator?

In the end though if I understand your beliefs it is rather pointless for you to continue the discussion since the bible is all lies to keep us scared and therefore there is nothing to fear from ignorance or sin.

i never said it was all lies, but i did say it was full of lies...as in added to it, it is also redacted, and mistranslated in some cases...these things pose real problems, and if it is so important that the bible is accurate, dont you think Christians would make sure it was instead of purporting that it was when it was not? historically accurate is one thing, (as in having the correct peoples names in it for the time period...whoop de doo) but spiritually, it is lacking in accuracy...that is the problem...whenever evil men get a hold of something good they ruin it...they defile it...and the bible is no exception...for something so important that it is the blueprint for salvation, you would think it would be better guarded than it was...instead it was tailored by Constantine to be what he wanted it to be for his purposes...and he crushed anyone who defied his assertions about Jesus and anything else...that is what we all too often forget about the history of the modern bible...you cannot base truth off of a lie and that is what modern Christianity is still doing...

Ok so the Catholics/Roman Empire changed the book. Then they forbade people from reading it and conducted mass in latin so that people could not see the truth in the lies they added there? or omitted. Also you speak of history but you do not look at history through the lens of the bible. All of your ancient history and extensive travel do is confirm the bibles account of a world empire before the flood that shared common pagan/heretical world view which was wiped out by God because man decided to no longer obey the lord and instead exalt himself above the lord through baseless conjecture and lies from serpents? Also dont forget the nephilhim and how they tie in to your DNA research which was another cause for the flood clearly stated in genesis. The bible has the answers to the questions you seek but then you would have to align your will with that of the lords which for some reason you have an aversion to.

Also in regards to Constantine/Roman Empire/Catholic Church. Seems strange that they already headed a pagan empire yet needed a new religion to control the people. Why is this? Apparently there was this new religion going around that was so powerful people were abandoning the old pagan ways which ties directly to your "the Sumerian origin idea" . So just so we have this straight they hijacked a legitimate spiritual movement to hide their pagan symbols within yet outwardly teach the way to salvation? This legitimate spiritual movement is teaching the same things the Sumerians thought according to some of you here? Why the need to hide the mystery school inside a new religion if the supplanted religion was teaching mystery school ideas?

Originally posted by NihilistSanta
Also in regards to Constantine/Roman Empire/Catholic Church. Seems strange that they already headed a pagan empire yet needed a new religion to control the people. Why is this? Apparently there was this new religion going around that was so powerful people were abandoning the old pagan ways which ties directly to your "the Sumerian origin idea" . So just so we have this straight they hijacked a legitimate spiritual movement to hide their pagan symbols within yet outwardly teach the way to salvation? This legitimate spiritual movement is teaching the same things the Sumerians thought according to some of you here? Why the need to hide the mystery school inside a new religion if the supplanted religion was teaching mystery school ideas?

because this is their way, they hijack everything...any movement they see gaining momentum they hijack...so they can retain the power...they do it by cunning and then by force...had they let it be the opposition, they would have lost their power...so they have to make their bondage palatable in the form of whatever movement they intend to control or derail...

they did it with every spiritual movement in history, they also did it with the reformation...they also did it with the American revolution, which is why the good ol USA is a tool of oppression today...

Originally posted by NihilistSanta
... Also you speak of history but you do not look at history through the lens of the bible. All of your ancient history and extensive travel do is confirm the bibles account of a world empire before the flood that shared common pagan/heretical world view which was wiped out by God because man decided to no longer obey the lord and instead exalt himself above the lord through baseless conjecture and lies from serpents? Also dont forget the nephilhim and how they tie in to your DNA research which was another cause for the flood clearly stated in genesis. The bible has the answers to the questions you seek but then you would have to align your will with that of the lords which for some reason you have an aversion to.

if you must ignore the original account of the creation and the flood then by all means do so...

in the original account of creation there were two events...one where 7 of each sex (male and female) was created after several attempts and the DNA evidence can corroborate this to the mitochondrial DNA of every one of us, which points back to 7 females originating in Africa...when they were created, they were used as slaves...and were just fine according to the rulers of the day, because they just did their job...but, Enki was sort of a rebel, so he defied his superiors and made two (Adam and Eve) which he kept in a garden and taught them things, except he forbid them certain knowledge...when they got a hold of this knowledge, they were no longer in the dark and this was a threat to Enki's superiors who then banished Adam and eve to work with the rest...they hoped that Adam and Eve would be absorbed into the population and lose their new found knowledge...Enki also sired some offspring with two other females and those offspring were credited as being the lineage of Noah...who were then taught all the ways of the rulers and given the task of civilizing the rest of humanity...it is for this reason that Enki felt a kinship with Noah...and noah and his family taught art, animal husbandry, and agriculture...it even says they brought sheep to the earth and other livestock and grains for them to grow...which is odd because sheep, and wheat both show signs of genetic alteration...all present before we knew of DNA...

in that flood account, it was not the fall of man that incurred the flood, it was the pretenders (god imposters) who orchestrated the cataclysm to cleanse the earth...because man was too intelligent after Enki endowed them with intelligence...before that they were semi-intelligent and just obeyed instructions...also there was a rebellious faction among them that interbred with human women after Enki did...

this burst of intelligence coincides with the fact there is a missing link in the evolutionary chain...humans suddenly leap from an erect ape to homo sapiens, almost instantly, and this is called a missing link, but it is not...this blank and the fact we have fused chromosomes, (which can only happen in a lab) and larger brains than our ancestral Australopithecus and other erect apes, is a huge clue that Enki did indeed create Adam and Eve with higher intelligence...

The fact that there has been almost a continuous lineage of kings and royalty in the earth that care so much about their heritage is also a clue that the Sumerian texts were correct...from the family of Noah, all the way to modern English royalty...they and their collaborators have continuously sought to enslave mankind in the tradition of the Annunaki, because they are "appointed by god"

The Annunaki also originated communion...their bread of life and a special wine was the precursor to communion in the church...

The Annunaki also continued to play god and fool the masses...including the rivalry of their offspring who vied for power, and fought over who controlled what people...therefore the ancient stories of the flood and many others coincide, but the gods are different for each groups because that was who they answered to...

eventually their power was left to the ruling class who only had to maintain the apparatus they (Annunaki) left in place to retain power over the earth...

the double serpent and all other symbols of such do not represent evil, they represent DNA...ever notice how two coiled serpents look very much like a double helix? eventually this memory of the life force was muddied and changed into serpent worship, but even Moses raised a serpent on a stake...funny how this symbol is common to many religions, including Egyptian, Greek and Roman, and is still a symbol of the medical field!

lets just ignore the bulk of history and how connected it all is and continue to cling to the narrow view of the bible...we could not possibly learn anything from outside the bible could we? the spirit could not possibly teach us anything from any other source could it?

why learn a trade like endoscopic surgery? why even learn to ride a bike? thats not in the bible

Originally posted by studythem1

Originally posted by NihilistSanta
Also in regards to Constantine/Roman Empire/Catholic Church. Seems strange that they already headed a pagan empire yet needed a new religion to control the people. Why is this? Apparently there was this new religion going around that was so powerful people were abandoning the old pagan ways which ties directly to your "the Sumerian origin idea" . So just so we have this straight they hijacked a legitimate spiritual movement to hide their pagan symbols within yet outwardly teach the way to salvation? This legitimate spiritual movement is teaching the same things the Sumerians thought according to some of you here? Why the need to hide the mystery school inside a new religion if the supplanted religion was teaching mystery school ideas?

because this is their way, they hijack everything...any movement they see gaining momentum they hijack...so they can retain the power...they do it by cunning and then by force...had they let it be the opposition, they would have lost their power...so they have to make their bondage palatable in the form of whatever movement they intend to control or derail...

they did it with every spiritual movement in history, they also did it with the reformation...they also did it with the American revolution, which is why the good ol USA is a tool of oppression today...

So they put on the reformation to spur the spread of the bible to the common man? So that they can control us? Even though everything they say and do is counter to anything Jesus says? Even though of all religious figures they decide to mock Christ the most vehemently and openly? They pass laws in opposition to the biblical lies they spread? hmm seems like a wonky control scheme to allow the people to have a counter manifesto to your own that not only shows them how to overcome your control methods but points out where you made changes.

I am trying to follow your view through here but still ends up being a lot of what ifs that fly in the face of traditional control methods. Like I said before not allowing bible access to the laity, amalgamating pagan ideas in the rituals and garb, and conducting services in a language the commoners could not comprehend those sound like realistic attempts at control.

The reformation threw off those shackles and still found the core tenants to be the same. Still found the same book to be sufficient. Once they threw out the catholic rituals and prayers and devotion to a man/god (the pope) they were pretty much free to follow Christ as intended.

The reformation helped things like education which without the bible you would probably be an illiterate pleb and unable to articulate your fantastic conjectures. You are right the elite do hijack movements but they hijacked the reformation by using science. Science with a humanist aim which they ply to the twisting of words and meanings. This same science that prevents you from seeing the truth of your travels and studies that is reflected in the bible but instead replaces it with intelligent sounding fantasy.

I do not doubt evil men sit in positions of power but if God plans to redeem us I am sure that his plan can not be impeded by mortal men. If anything they are only facilitating it.

reply to post by studythem1

also i do not have an aversion to the creator...i do have an aversion to lies...i am sick of them and cannot stand lies any more which is why i search for truth...


if my spirit is aligned with the creator, then what does it matter if i expose the lies everywhere? must i cling to lies simply because they are labeled christian? or are bound in a leather cover with the words "holy bible" emblazoned on the cover?

yes there is truth in the bible, but it is harder to find than the lies...instead of a love for the creator and lov from the creator, we find an overwhelming message of hate and bloodshed, and are told to fear the creator...why then would all the angels say "fear not"? the creator has not given us the sprit of fear, but of love and of power and of a sound mind...that is truth...

what is not truth is anthropomorphizing the creator and giving human attributes to the creator...especially those of hatred, jealousy, rage, and wrath...those are distinctly mortal and selfish, which tells me that the Annunaki were still very much active in the affairs of men when some of the books we have included in the bible were written...and they played god...which is why they were punished...because they (lucifer or Enlil and his followers) sought to take the place of the creator...which means those books may have truth in them, but are tainted...

reply to post by studythem1


Good post... im not so sure about this "alien" idea... but none the less...

One question though...

Why do you reply to yourself?