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Is Jesus the only way to God?

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posted on Jul, 23 2012 @ 05:41 PM
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reply to post by Deetermined
 




Just a word of advice, if you'd stop asking a question to answer a question, you'd eliminate some confusion for everyone. Get straight to the answer and stop asking, "where did you get that idea", "where did I say that"? Just answer the questions to the best of your ability.


I do not try to figure out someones intent, or make assumptions, this is why I must ask to understand their viewpoint (the assumptions drawn), for me to give a reply. If the question was just a question without the conclusions, it would be easier to answer.



I won't go into the details as to why I thought you claimed that Revelation ended differently than what's in the Bible because that will become a whole other issue, obviously.


I already know that answer.
edit on 23-7-2012 by jhill76 because: (no reason given)

edit on 23-7-2012 by jhill76 because: (no reason given)




posted on Jul, 23 2012 @ 07:13 PM
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Originally posted by jhill76

Jesus died on a pole not a cross.


a cross is a type of pole.
The Romans were not picky in regards to how they would crucify people. The Romans used crosses, poles, stakes, upside-down crosses, x-shaped crosses, walls, roofs, etc. Jesus could have been crucified on any of these objects and it would not have affected the perfection or sufficiency of His sacrifice.

The Greek word translated “cross” is stauros, meaning “a pole or a cross used as an instrument of capital punishment.” The Greek word stauroo, which is translated “crucify” means to be attached to a pole or cross.

So unless one was personally present that day, then I suppose it can't really be said for sure. But, it was most likely a cross. Unless you were actually there and can confirm to all of us on ATS that it was, in fact, a pole.

Neither of which would even matter in the end, so arguing over it is utterly retarded.


The story of Job is a lesson, not an actual event.


Yet he is mentioned by James, the Lord's brother and by God Himself in Ezekiel 14.


Paul gives an account of him being taken above, but in different translations it says he once knew a man, then others it says I was taken.


bfd, you still know he was talking about himself in either translation.



Details like that, but it does not damage the overall message.



no, but planting seeds of doubt and discord do damage the overall message



posted on Jul, 23 2012 @ 07:36 PM
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reply to post by jhill76
 


Jesus made other statements that specifically revealed himself as not just the Messiah but God. Before I go on, you may ask, what are your credentials?? Fair question. I'm 4 classes away from a Master's degree in Biblical Counseling which includes studying the original Greek of the New Testament and Hebrew of the Old Testament or what I prefer to call the First Testament (Torah, Law, and prophets...i.e. the "bible" Jesus would have read).

When Jesus told the Jews "Before Abraham was born...I am". This was a clear message to the Jews that Jesus pre-existed Abraham. A clear sign of Deity. Jesus even used the very name God used when God appeared to Moses at the burning bush..."I Am". Even the Jews understood what Jesus was saying because after Jesus said that, scripture notes that the Jews took up stones to stone Jesus because "he being a man made himself out to be God". Those are orthodox Christian FACTS!!



posted on Jul, 23 2012 @ 07:58 PM
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reply to post by Deetermined
 


But why all the hostility still?

It's not hostility, it's frustration.

I'm disappointed when people who appear to be capable of learning and are obviously articulate, who do show grace (and thank you for not being awful to me....) refuse to look further than the Bible.

There is so much to learn! What can it hurt you, eh? What can it hurt your cause to be aware of the modern ideas that your religion so directly speaks to??

Maybe you're just not a "reader". I dunno.
No, it's not hostility, Dee, it's frustration and disappointment.



posted on Jul, 23 2012 @ 08:00 PM
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reply to post by stupid girl
 




Neither of which would even matter in the end, so arguing over it is utterly retarded.


Why even make a comment about it then?



Yet he is mentioned by James, the Lord's brother and by God Himself in Ezekiel 14.


Father is the one who brought the lesson about, I didn't say man was the one who wrote the lesson. Again, assumptions are widely made on here.



posted on Jul, 23 2012 @ 08:01 PM
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Originally posted by Elsha
reply to post by jhill76
 


Jesus made other statements that specifically revealed himself as not just the Messiah but God. Before I go on, you may ask, what are your credentials?? Fair question. I'm 4 classes away from a Master's degree in Biblical Counseling which includes studying the original Greek of the New Testament and Hebrew of the Old Testament or what I prefer to call the First Testament (Torah, Law, and prophets...i.e. the "bible" Jesus would have read).

When Jesus told the Jews "Before Abraham was born...I am". This was a clear message to the Jews that Jesus pre-existed Abraham. A clear sign of Deity. Jesus even used the very name God used when God appeared to Moses at the burning bush..."I Am". Even the Jews understood what Jesus was saying because after Jesus said that, scripture notes that the Jews took up stones to stone Jesus because "he being a man made himself out to be God". Those are orthodox Christian FACTS!!


My question was posed to others to hear why they believe in this, as some do. This is not my stance on the matter. If you follow this thread, I make this clear many times.



When Jesus told the Jews "Before Abraham was born...I am". This was a clear message to the Jews that Jesus pre-existed Abraham. A clear sign of Deity.


I am aware of this, I don't understand what you are getting at?
edit on 23-7-2012 by jhill76 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 23 2012 @ 08:06 PM
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Originally posted by Elsha
reply to post by jhill76
 


Jesus made other statements that specifically revealed himself as not just the Messiah but God. Before I go on, you may ask, what are your credentials?? Fair question. I'm 4 classes away from a Master's degree in Biblical Counseling which includes studying the original Greek of the New Testament and Hebrew of the Old Testament or what I prefer to call the First Testament (Torah, Law, and prophets...i.e. the "bible" Jesus would have read).

When Jesus told the Jews "Before Abraham was born...I am". This was a clear message to the Jews that Jesus pre-existed Abraham. A clear sign of Deity. Jesus even used the very name God used when God appeared to Moses at the burning bush..."I Am". Even the Jews understood what Jesus was saying because after Jesus said that, scripture notes that the Jews took up stones to stone Jesus because "he being a man made himself out to be God". Those are orthodox Christian FACTS!!


I completely agree, unfortunately most of the posters want to cherry pick scripture or deny that it is inspired. That somehow the great and infinite Lord can not keep one body of literature in tact. They also overlook actual scientific verification (in the study of authenticity of ancient text) of the bible and want to beat on the fears of others that they may have been duped or lead astray by scribes/monks. The lie has been spread that the bible is inaccurate or has been altered so as to prevent us from knowing the real truth. For some reason people would rather believe a lie than the truth. I often wondered in my apostate life how the world would fall in line with one all powerful ruler and now I see that while inventing fantasies and conjecture to validate the version of God that they want the world willingly invites satan to take over.



posted on Jul, 23 2012 @ 08:09 PM
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Originally posted by jhill76
reply to post by stupid girl
 




Neither of which would even matter in the end, so arguing over it is utterly retarded.


Why even make a comment about it then?


because my comment is AWESOME!!!
Just like Chuck Norris.
Plus, because I'm right.
And because I felt left out of the group of retards discussing it.





Yet he is mentioned by James, the Lord's brother and by God Himself in Ezekiel 14.



Father is the one who brought the lesson about, I didn't say man was the one who wrote the lesson. Again, assumptions are widely made on here.



So I guess that's why Father mentions Job along with two other fictional men who never existed.....

The word of the Lord came to me: “Son of man, if a country sins against me by being unfaithful and I stretch out my hand against it to cut off its food supply and send famine upon it and kill its people and their animals, even if these three men—Noah, Daniel and Job —were in it, they could save only themselves by their righteousness, declares the Sovereign Lord."


So Noah, Daniel and Job are the Larry, Curley and Moe of the OT?

That dog ain't gonna hunt, Mr. Above the Hill...
edit on 23-7-2012 by stupid girl because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 23 2012 @ 08:14 PM
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Originally posted by Elsha
reply to post by jhill76
 


Jesus made other statements that specifically revealed himself as not just the Messiah but God. Before I go on, you may ask, what are your credentials?? Fair question. I'm 4 classes away from a Master's degree in Biblical Counseling which includes studying the original Greek of the New Testament and Hebrew of the Old Testament or what I prefer to call the First Testament (Torah, Law, and prophets...i.e. the "bible" Jesus would have read).

When Jesus told the Jews "Before Abraham was born...I am". This was a clear message to the Jews that Jesus pre-existed Abraham. A clear sign of Deity. Jesus even used the very name God used when God appeared to Moses at the burning bush..."I Am". Even the Jews understood what Jesus was saying because after Jesus said that, scripture notes that the Jews took up stones to stone Jesus because "he being a man made himself out to be God". Those are orthodox Christian FACTS!!


read the whole chapter, stop taking the words out of context.

in the previous verses, the Jews kept pointing to the patriarchs, Jesus kept pointing to the father, they kept harping on Abraham, so he said that Abraham saw "this day and rejoiced" they asked how was that possible? were you there? then Jesus pointed AGAIN, to the father...because before Abraham was, the creator was...Jesus never once pointed to anyone but the father...

it was the Jews and like minded Christians who assume what Jesus meant...Jews wanted to kill him, but Christians want to worship the creation...that is the difference...neither one understands, they only assume...

just because you can cross reference a couple of words, does not make them mean Jesus was pointing at himself...



posted on Jul, 23 2012 @ 08:15 PM
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reply to post by stupid girl
 




So I guess that's why Father mentions Job along with two other fictional men who never existed.....


You still seem to put your own view of how Father should be doing things. Trying to explain this, will be going down a slippery slope, because I cannot speak for him on this matter.

I will say, if he needs the lesson to stay intact, you will be sure, he knows what he is doing by mentioning him again.



posted on Jul, 23 2012 @ 08:21 PM
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reply to post by studythem1
 


Except that the theme seems to run throughout the entire Bible as shown in these threads:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

and

www.abovetopsecret.com...



posted on Jul, 23 2012 @ 08:23 PM
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Originally posted by jhill76
reply to post by stupid girl
 




So I guess that's why Father mentions Job along with two other fictional men who never existed.....


You still seem to put your own view of how Father should be doing things. Trying to explain this, will be going down a slippery slope, because I cannot speak for him on this matter.

I will say, if he needs the lesson to stay intact, you will be sure, he knows what he is doing by mentioning him again.


whoa..ho..hoa....simmer down now, Mr. Above the Hill

who is making assumptions now?
Far be it from this stupid girl to ever ever EVER make presumptions on how God orchestrates His business.

Also, I am not the one who has made insinuations that I have an inside scoop on what goes on behind the curtain.

When you start making allegations about this or that in the Bible that "was just a story to teach a lesson", you might as well negate the Bible in its entirety.



posted on Jul, 23 2012 @ 08:27 PM
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reply to post by stupid girl
 




When you start making allegations about this or that in the Bible that "was just a story to teach a lesson", you might as well negate the Bible in its entirety.


Not so, I only stated that was a lesson, and a very good one. Father knew what he was doing with that one. Because, many today still use the lesson of Job in their own life.



who is making assumptions now? Far be it from this stupid girl to ever ever EVER make presumptions on how God orchestrates His business.


You do this many times, you don't agree or immediately discount it, because you think Father wouldn't do it this way or that's simply not possible. Just look at your post in response to me saying it was a lesson. You say no, because you don't think it's possible for him to do this. But, he knows what he is doing, he knows what you need to hear. That account alone, is the biggest one used besides the story of Christ.
edit on 23-7-2012 by jhill76 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 23 2012 @ 08:30 PM
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reply to post by NihilistSanta
 


Fact is your post is correct. Not only do we have excellent historical backing to and for the New Testament, but Christianity has the very best historical evidence which is a little known secret. How acient writings can be considered trustworthy is a very complicated subject but to make a long subject short: The New Testament is the best. As if thats not enough, the Dead Sea Scrolls further revealed that today's Old Testament has been amazingly preserved. Those are the HISTORICAL FACTS to this case.

The Muslim teaching that the bible has become corrupted is simply not historical the case, just as teaching that Islam is a peaceful religion is also not historically true as the Koran (and history) teach



posted on Jul, 23 2012 @ 08:33 PM
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Originally posted by NihilistSanta

Originally posted by Elsha
reply to post by jhill76
 


Jesus made other statements that specifically revealed himself as not just the Messiah but God. Before I go on, you may ask, what are your credentials?? Fair question. I'm 4 classes away from a Master's degree in Biblical Counseling which includes studying the original Greek of the New Testament and Hebrew of the Old Testament or what I prefer to call the First Testament (Torah, Law, and prophets...i.e. the "bible" Jesus would have read).

When Jesus told the Jews "Before Abraham was born...I am". This was a clear message to the Jews that Jesus pre-existed Abraham. A clear sign of Deity. Jesus even used the very name God used when God appeared to Moses at the burning bush..."I Am". Even the Jews understood what Jesus was saying because after Jesus said that, scripture notes that the Jews took up stones to stone Jesus because "he being a man made himself out to be God". Those are orthodox Christian FACTS!!


I completely agree, unfortunately most of the posters want to cherry pick scripture or deny that it is inspired. That somehow the great and infinite Lord can not keep one body of literature in tact. They also overlook actual scientific verification (in the study of authenticity of ancient text) of the bible and want to beat on the fears of others that they may have been duped or lead astray by scribes/monks. The lie has been spread that the bible is inaccurate or has been altered so as to prevent us from knowing the real truth. For some reason people would rather believe a lie than the truth. I often wondered in my apostate life how the world would fall in line with one all powerful ruler and now I see that while inventing fantasies and conjecture to validate the version of God that they want the world willingly invites satan to take over.


the creator does not need to exert power, only those that do not have power need to do that...

why would the creator need to make sure a book written by men was left pristine in the same condition it was in when it was first penned?

what about free will? i guess that is no longer a factor? i guess we live in a fairy tale world where nothing changes...

so there were no evil scribes or church leaders? so Constantine was a saint and so were all the members of the council of Nicaea?

suuurre...and Hitler was also a goody two shoes...

the problem is not that people wont believe in a book as infallible...the problem is that people do not believe they can have any positive effect on the world...people forgot how connected we are to the world, the universe, and the creator, because we are always trying to separate everything...when we cant...we can try, but we still have a huge impact on everything around us...whether we do something or sit on our hands...

so instead of asking why the creator did not, ask why you did not? isnt that why we were given bodies? minds? hearts? souls?

we are the instruments of the creator, it is our duty to find the truth, not just accept everything we are force fed...

and people wonder why humans are constantly referred to as sheep, even by Jesus...because for the most part, we are still stupid...



posted on Jul, 23 2012 @ 08:33 PM
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Originally posted by jhill76
reply to post by stupid girl
 




When you start making allegations about this or that in the Bible that "was just a story to teach a lesson", you might as well negate the Bible in its entirety.


Not so, I only stated that was a lesson, and a very good one. Father knew what he was doing with that one. Because, many today still use the lesson of Job in their own life.



who is making assumptions now? Far be it from this stupid girl to ever ever EVER make presumptions on how God orchestrates His business.


You do this many times, you don't agree or immediately discount it, because you think Father wouldn't do it this way or that's simply not possible. Just look at your post in response to me saying it was a lesson. You say no, because you don't think it's possible for him to do this. But, he knows what he is doing, he knows what you need to hear. That account alone, is the biggest one used besides the story of Christ.
edit on 23-7-2012 by jhill76 because: (no reason given)


since I don't want to make another assumption based on something you actually just typed in black and white,

please explain what you mean by your last sentence....

and I am still interested in hearing your take on the Euphrates 4 and Enki in your other thread........tic toc tic toc...waiting......



posted on Jul, 23 2012 @ 08:34 PM
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reply to post by jhill76
 


JHill, why would the story about Job only be a lesson and not a true event?



posted on Jul, 23 2012 @ 08:35 PM
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Originally posted by jhill76
You do this many times, you don't agree or immediately discount it, because you think Father wouldn't do it this way or that's simply not possible. Just look at your post in response to me saying it was a lesson. You say no, because you don't think it's possible for him to do this. But, he knows what he is doing, he knows what you need to hear. That account alone, is the biggest one used besides the story of Christ.
edit on 23-7-2012 by jhill76 because: (no reason given)


so what makes you right and me wrong?

I mean, really?



posted on Jul, 23 2012 @ 08:35 PM
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Originally posted by Deetermined
reply to post by studythem1
 


Except that the theme seems to run throughout the entire Bible as shown in these threads:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

and

www.abovetopsecret.com...


i could do the same thing to several of today's publications, pick out a word or idea, and "prove" that the same theme was in all of them therefore divinely inspired...

weak argument
edit on 23-7-2012 by studythem1 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 23 2012 @ 08:36 PM
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reply to post by stupid girl
 




That account alone, is the biggest one used besides the story of Christ.


Meaning, in peoples daily lives, they equate themselves to Job when something goes wrong. They don't blame it on the devil, they think that God is showing them or teaching them something in their trials. This is a collective of all.




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