Acts 2:22 = Jesus was a MAN approved by God

Originally posted by Iason321
reply to post by SisyphusRide

 

I think the Jews get blessed here on earth. They are Gods original elect people and so they are still blessed to this day on earth.

Look at the Jews in the world now - many of them are filthy rich and have wonderful lives here on earth

it's difficult for the wealthy to enter the kingdom of God...

The thing is, they do not accept the Christ. Therefore, they cannot enter Heaven.

Therefore, most Jews goto Hell.

Hell is not a place where they are kept alive in torment by a sadistic god though.

Hell is the common grave of mankind, sheol, the void, death.

Unless they accept that Jesus is the Christ, they will not be granted with the gift of God of eternal life.

figured that right after my post... but the sheep forgive them, I do anyway because they know now what they did...

reply to post by lonewolf19792000

. . . The book of Revelation itself is not just the Revelation of Jesus Christ, the entire NT is revealing him . . .

There are two possible ways to take this section of the verse, "the revelation of Jesus", either it is revealing Jesus, or it is Jesus revealing something. Taken in context, I believe it is the latter.

The revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show his servants what must happen very soon. He made it clear . . .

I don't think the Book of Revelation reveals anything about Jesus that we would not already know from other books in the NT.

. . . whenever He made an appearance in his original form in the OT, he always showed up as three...

I don't know what you are talking about here. There is one place where three persons are seen, in Genesis 18 it says Abraham was sitting outside the door to his tent and saw YHWH with two other men. Abraham did not see the three of them being YHWH. Verse 22 says that as they were leaving to continue on their way, the two men went ahead while YHWH remained standing before Abraham.

He states right here that he is not some mere "hireling" who doesn't care about the sheep. Here he is claiming the sheep are his, both flocks belong to him.

Jesus is by this analogy saying he is the Messiah. The king, under the old system of what a kingdom was, owned the land he ruled over, and everything in it.

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
Another good one, from Ravi Zacharias. He's one of the greatest apologists in Christianity.

appreciated... never heard of this guy but I'm all over it now.

how he explains the word university, awesome!

this guys is a Indian? a relative new comer on the scene... Heaviness!'

btw NT "that's my King" video is one of my favorites too

Originally posted by SisyphusRide
reply to post by lonewolf19792000

 

but in the story is there no redemption for the Jews? can't we all share the vineyard...

No, there is, but after the fullness of the gentiles be come in as Paul says. The entire purpose of Daniel's 70th week is to drive them to accept their Messiah.

I think it's Micah 5:15 where God says "I will go and return to My place (heaven) and in their affliction they will earnestly seek me."


God can't return to His place, if He didn't first leave it (incarnation).

reply to post by windword


Jesus said man and woman become one flesh when they are married. Do married men become women?

Originally posted by lonewolf19792000
reply to post by Deetermined

 

My take on it is, that Jesus is Yahweh, or Yahweh was his original pre-human form. The entire bible from OT to NT tells you who he is. The old prophets tell you who he is. You read the OT and see what God teaches, and compare that to Jesus and it's a 100% match right down to his mannerism, speech and tolerance. Not to mention that whenever He made an appearance in his original form in the OT, he always showed up as three...but from Abraham's perspective there was only One. He and the Father are one, because they are the same. The entire concept of humanity was taken from the triune God. Man was made in his Image, and so we have Body, Spirit and Soul then so too must he. We see God through Jesus because it is like looking at a mirror image.

This is a fantastic explanation for the Trinity. Thanks!

Can you provide a little more explanation on Yahweh always showing up as three in the Old Testament?

I'm posting a more detailed explanation for Spirit, Soul & Body for others in the link below. It too gives a great explanation for the origin of our Spirit, Soul & Body as well as it's destination.

faithhopelove.net...

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by windword

 

Jesus said man and woman become one flesh when they are married. Do married men become women?

This too is a great explanation for our relationship with Jesus.

The Bible talks about the bride being the church/believers and Jesus returning to claim his bride.

Here are some of those scriptures.

www.atouchfromabove.org...

reply to post by SisyphusRide


Yes, Ravi is the bomb. He's very kind and humble and his wit and intellect are razor sharp. One of my all-time favorite apologists. I also suggest Dr. Greg Bahnsen, I have his book, I don't know if there are videos of his debates. He's passed on now, but his book "The Great Debate" is a classic. And Astrophysicist Dr. Jason Lisle is tremendous as well. I suggest "Nuclear Strength Apologetics". But fair warning, he'll teach you how to spot and dismantle every logical fallacy you'll run across and when you discuss and debate after that point you'll get very frustrated with people who don't understand their arguments are invalid and thus irrelevant from the start.

Dr. Jason Lisle:

reply to post by NOTurTypical

No, there is, but after the fullness of the gentiles be come in as Paul says

It may be helpful to quote the verse you are referring to in Romans 11:

For I do not want you to be ignorant of this mystery, brothers and sisters, so that you may not be conceited: A partial hardening has happened to Israel until the full number of the Gentiles has come in. And so all Israel will be saved, as it is written:
“The Deliverer will come out of Zion;
he will remove ungodliness from Jacob.
And this is my covenant with them,
when I take away their sins.”
In regard to the gospel they are enemies for your sake, but in regard to election they are dearly loved for the sake of the fathers. For the gifts and the call of God are irrevocable. Just as you were formerly disobedient to God, but have now received mercy due to their disobedience, so they too have now been disobedient in order that, by the mercy shown to you, they too may now receive mercy. For God has consigned all people to disobedience so that he may show mercy to them all.

The "mystery" is revealed by Paul, which is that though the Jews had the advantage of their tradition which spoke of a coming savior, they did not end up as having an advantage to being saved, as if they were on the inside track and the gentiles were at a disadvantage. The Jews, though they had all the materials necessary to come to the correct conclusion about the savior, failed to recognize him when he showed up, causing them a slight delay, and thus giving the gentiles the chance to where they could jump ahead, and to get even with the Jews as concerning salvation.
Paul explained the mechanism for salvation in an earlier chapter of Romans in this way:

And what if he is willing to make known the wealth of his glory on the objects of mercy that he has prepared beforehand for glory – even us, whom he has called, not only from the Jews but also from the Gentiles?

So all are saved in exactly the same way.
The idea that there is a "time of the gentiles" is derived from the earlier quote, where it says "until the full number of the Gentiles has come in." and then, "And so all Israel will be saved", where there is no time interval being described. The NIV translates the Greek word from the text, Pleroma, as "the full number", which may be correct if it was talking about a ship and its crew, where the proper number of the ships complement that it was designed for was on board. But the literal meaning (and how other versions translate it) is, fullness. This could possibly be understood to mean the gentiles themselves being filled. So you could end up with a reading such as, "until the gentiles receive their filling".
This idea that there is a prophetic time barrier preventing the Jews from being saved until it runs out is all an artificial construct devised by John Nelson Darby, the inventor of Dispensationalism, back in the 1800's but not a theory taken seriously by biblical scholars, and is only a fringe cultish belief system best avoided by anyone who believes in Jesus, since this heretical system is at its core, anti-christian in nature.

If Jesus the Christ is not God, what does this mean?

Matthew 28:17 And when they saw him, they worshipped him: but some doubted.

18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.

19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

"All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth". Who else but God is all powerful / omnipotent?

"baptize them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost" - Gee whatdya know?!?! Jesus Christ himself, describing the trinity!

Go on folks....keep them eyes glued wide shut!!!

reply to post by Iason321

"All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth". Who else but God is all powerful / omnipotent?

What it says in the Greek text is ἐξουσίᾳ, which is the same word that is used to describe what the Pharisees asked Jesus, "By what authority do you do these things?"

reply to post by lonewolf19792000

Even though i made the case abundantly clear on page 3 who God is, 4 pages later Skorpion still ignores it. He is not out to learn the truth, he is out to get other people to believe his opinions.

Relax, this thread became 9 pages long pretty quick...and I've been experiencing connection problems.
Check my following post..

reply to post by lonewolf19792000


(John 8:56-59 )

All throughout the new testament Jesus is known as the Lord. What Day is the Lord's Day? The Sabbath is because he finished creation and rested from his labors that day. So when the apostles and disciples were referring to him, they didn't say the word Lord, they said Yahweh...for Jesus is Yahweh.

When did the apostles refer to Jesus as "Yahweh"?
Jesus always stated that the One who sent him was greater.


(Matthew 12:1-8 )

Who else can have the right to claim he desires mercy and not sacrifice? Who else can so what goes on the Sabbath and was it permissable? He whom made it...GOD.

Jesus was referring to Gods words in Hosea 6:6.
So basically you yourself point out that God didn't want sacrifice... but mercy.
So the doctrine of Jesus' sin sacrifice has no real scriptural basis.

On one hand, God didn't want sacrifices...and on the other, you insist Jesus had to be sacrificed to save sinners.

So we can safely conclude that God who didn't want sacrifice, would NOT want to have Jesus sacrificed.

(John 10:11-18 )

Muslim often try to make the case that Jesus didn't die on the cross, that he was spirited away by the angels before he could die, right here Jesus said he was laying it down so he could take it up again. He Resurrected himself, no one but God can do that. Jesus also said that no one takes it from him (his life), he made the decision. The jews could only kill him because he allowed them to.

I am not talking about the muslim point of view. So theres no need to invoke the muslim P.O.V.

Personally, I believe Jesus was tortured and hammered to the cross, but the final moments of his life are unknown. Perhaps, Jesus' soul was lifted out, leaving behind an empty shell of his human body, moments before his death....Neither you nor me know, so dont pretend like your guess is better than mine.

(I believe there is a biblical scripture that reflects the muslim point of view.)

(Matthew 15:21-28)

Wait a minute, his "other" sheep can't be muslim, because theyre trying to wipe out his lost sheep, that means his other sheep are the christians!

I can just as easily say "christians aren't following christ, because christian leaders are bombing muslims instead of "turning the other cheek".
So what now?

(Isaiah 59: 15-20 )

This part of Isaiah is prophecy of the coming of the Lord, whom was called Yeshua or Yahshua, who was to be their redeemer.

Nobody debates the coming of the messiah.

Originally posted by SisyphusRide
truth always comes back to defeat a lie, it'll probably never die because is the natural order of the universe... we are born into sin because of our surroundings and improper teachers and all the "lie" that the world is running on currently.

Yeep that is conditioning. I like to call it the sins of the elders that repeats in the next generation. But we are evolving but to slow from my taste.

Originally posted by sk0rpi0n


Personally, I believe Jesus was tortured and hammered to the cross, but the final moments of his life are unknown. Perhaps, Jesus' soul was lifted out, leaving behind an empty shell of his human body, moments before his death....Neither you nor me know, so dont pretend like your guess is better than mine.

Here's what happened after Jesus was buried. Jesus rose up from the dead and made personal visitations before ascending to Heaven...

"Resurrection appearances of Jesus"

en.wikipedia.org...

reply to post by Deetermined


No way man didn't you know that every testimony in the Bible is BS and the main thing that people even know of the Christ for is wrong? Also didn't you know the apostles who went and got martyred were braindead with an IQ of 25? This is common sense! Jesus survived the crucifixion!!!

reply to post by sk0rpi0n

Nobody debates the coming of the messiah.

Depends on what you mean by coming.
If you mean past tense then I agree.
If you mean somehow the messiah did not come yet, and you really mean some future coming, then I would disagree with that.
Lonewolf does not clearly explain his take on the verses he quoted, so to me his entire post is practically pointless.
His mention of some name other than Jesus as the messiah makes his statement out of the realm of Christianity as far as I am concerned.
Jesus was able to sift out the parts of the prophecies he wanted to identify with and to fulfill, and which to ignore.
The idea that Jesus is forced to come back for a do-over to catch the ones he missed is completely insane to me.

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by windword

 

Jesus said man and woman become one flesh when they are married. Do married men become women?

Except, no they really don't, literally. The husband is not the wife and vice versa. Jesus is not God any more than I am.

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by windword

 

Jesus said man and woman become one flesh when they are married. Do married men become women?

Actually i've seen many "married" men become like women...

Thats what happens when you get married... the wife has a habbit of castrating her man.

I can't count how many times i've told my friends to "take your balls out of your wifes purse"

Cracker jacks, that is what most people on this htread are.

Jesus is God, God is jesus. Thats the sum up. But Jesus will promote God over himself, The One is bigger then him. Jesus is God and was the poster child for all mankind. nuff said