Acts 2:22 = Jesus was a MAN approved by God

reply to post by Iason321


Second post at the top of page 2 bro...

Open your eyes...

reply to post by Akragon

What does Judaism have to do with anything in this discussion?

Judaism has everything to do with this topic, Jesus was a Jewish Teacher, so he knew a bit about the Jewish faith and what would happen if he went around making claims of divinity, theyd probably crucify him for it...

I recommend researching the Ani Hu statements of both God and Jesus, and what they mean in context of the Jewish faith of the time.

Modern English translates them to simply mean " I am" but to the jews of the time it meant so much more.

reply to post by Akragon


Pull what crap? The crap where we can all list dozens of verses backing our claim, and you cant list a single one?

reply to post by Akragon


31Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him.

32Jesus answered them, Many good works have I shewed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me?

33The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.

34Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?

35If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;

36Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?

37If I do not the works of my Father, believe me not.

38But if I do, though ye believe not me, believe the works: that ye may know, and believe, that the Father is in me, and I in him.


So, that's your proof? That is what you interpret as Jesus saying "I am not God?"

That's interesting, because I interpret that verse as yet another confirmation of His Divinity. "if I do not the works of my Father, believe me not, but if I do, believe me, and believe that I and the Father are one"

Are we reading the same thing?

Originally posted by Iason321
reply to post by Akragon

 

Pull what crap? The crap where we can all list dozens of verses backing our claim, and you cant list a single one?

First off i wasn't talking to you when i said that... RevGen doesn't read, or has reading comprehension issues... and i refuse to deal with someone like that... its pointless...

Secondly...i posted it already...

READ please...

Fer Fak Sakes...

reply to post by Iason321



They said "you claim to be God"....

Why is he questioning that statement?

reply to post by Akragon


If Jesus is not God, His death would not have been sufficient to pay the penalty for the sins of the world.

If Jesus is not God, then how do you explain these verses?

John 14:7-10 [7] If you really knew me, you would know my Father as well. From now on, you do know him and have seen him." [8] Philip said, "Lord, show us the Father and that will be enough for us." [9] Jesus answered: "Don't you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, `Show us the Father'? [10] Don't you believe that I am in the Father, and that the Father is in me? The words I say to you are not just my own. Rather, it is the Father, living in me, who is doing his work.

John 10:30 "I and the Father are one."

John 14:11 Believe me when I say that I am in the Father and the Father is in me; or at least believe on the evidence of the miracles themselves.

John 10:37-38 [37] Do not believe me unless I do what my Father does. [38] But if I do it, even though you do not believe me, believe the miracles, that you may know and understand that the Father is in me, and I in the Father."

Matthew 27:43 He trusts in God. Let God rescue him now if he wants him, for he said, 'I am the Son of God.'"

John 17:11 I will remain in the world no longer, but they are still in the world, and I am coming to you. Holy Father, protect them by the power of your name--the name you gave me--so that they may be one as we are one.

The fact remains: Jesus Said He Is God

You do not have to believe his claim to be God, but this is what the scriptures clearly say!

What you cannot do is make out he was some type of "moral teacher" - That is about the most foolish thing a person could ever say. Jesus left no room for that... He is ether a Liar, Lunatic, or LORD. And everyone must make a choice.


/end thread

Originally posted by Akragon
reply to post by Iason321

 

ugh... not this again.

Feel free to believe he was God, im tired of this arguement... (I agree)

IF he was God he would have said he was... but he did not... EVER... (How can he be a part of and a whole at the same time)

IF you call him God, you make him a liar by omition... Meaning he left it out of his teachings for some reason...

He was divine... being the son of God. He was NOT God in the flesh... (He was one that was connected to ONE but still part of ONE not the WHOLE. If he was the whole ONE then earth would not exist and evolution of ONE would have been over)

Post all the references you like... but if he didn't say it (which he did not) then he wasn't God... Its as simple as that...

Further more the idea of a triune God was introduced hundreds of years later... the appostles didn't teach it, nor did Jesus...

You're listening to your church instead of reading it for yourself...

Originally posted by RevelationGeneration
reply to post by Akragon

 

Jesus is never recorded in the Bible as saying the precise words, “I am God.” That does not mean, however, that He did not proclaim that He is God.

Take for example Jesus’ words in John 10:30; “I and the Father are one.” We need only to look at the Jews’ reaction to His statement to know He was claiming to be God. They tried to stone Him for this very reason. “… you, a mere man, claim to be God” (John 10:33). The Jews understood exactly what Jesus was claiming—deity. Notice that Jesus does not deny His claim to be God. When Jesus declared, “I and the Father are one” (John 10:30), He was saying that He and the Father are of one nature and essence. John 8:58 is another example. Jesus declared, “I tell you the truth, before Abraham was born, I am!” The response of the Jews who heard this statement was to take up stones to kill Him for blasphemy, as the Mosaic Law commanded them to do (Leviticus 24:15).

The most important reason that Jesus has to be God is that if He is not God, His death would not have been sufficient to pay the penalty for the sins of the world (1 John 2:2). A created being, which Jesus would be if He were not God, could not pay the infinite penalty required for sin against an infinite God. Only God could pay such an infinite penalty. Only God could take on the sins of the world (2 Corinthians 5:21), die, and be resurrected, proving His victory over sin and death.

www.gotquestions.org...

If you exists then you are part of ONE (god). Even if the conection is only one way and some wont listen do not mean it is not there in the unconcious.

From my point of view:
Jesus was a soul who had an "maxed out Amygdala from fear"-experiance that is one of the ways ONE uses to wake you up. vimeo.com... (a brain scientist giving a lecture how it works physicly in the brain). This made Jesus able to connect both ways.

reply to post by RevelationGeneration


hahaha... End thread eh...

As if you're silly rants could end a thread on this forum...

What you cannot do is make out he was some type of "moral teacher" - That is about the most foolish thing a person could ever say. Jesus left no room for that... .

yup... he left no room at all for that....

Matthew 5:22
But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.

He is ether a Liar, Lunatic, or LORD. And everyone must make a choice

So those are the options eh...

Heres a few more... "options"

1. you are incorrect...

2. One can read it for themselves and see the truth of the matter...

3. One can take HIS word for it... And see there is ONE God according to HIS words...

4. Toss the whole idea and just try to live a good life... (not recommended for people interested in scripture of course)

I can think of a bunch more actually... and i would choose any of the above before taking YOUR word for it...

reply to post by apushforenlightment

If you exists then you are part of ONE (god). Even if the conection is only one way and some wont listen do not mean it is not there in the unconcious.

From my point of view:
Jesus was a soul who had an "maxed out Amygdala from fear"-experiance that is one of the ways ONE uses to wake you up. vimeo.com... (a brain scientist giving a lecture how it works physicly in the brain). This made Jesus able to connect both ways.

Very true... but there is one thing people must consider...

IF Jesus did not lie... he was "the truth, the life, and the way"... and he was also "Gods son"... The one man who knew God... He and only he remembered being with God...

So his words are special... because they are directly from God

Originally posted by Iason321

Originally posted by Akragon
reply to post by Iason321

 

ugh... not this again.

Feel free to believe he was God, im tired of this arguement...

IF he was God he would have said he was... but he did not... EVER...

IF you call him God, you make him a liar by omition... Meaning he left it out of his teachings for some reason...

He was divine... being the son of God. He was NOT God in the flesh...

Post all the references you like... but if he didn't say it (which he did not) then he wasn't God... Its as simple as that...

Further more the idea of a triune God was introduced hundreds of years later... the appostles didn't teach it, nor did Jesus...

You're listening to your church instead of reading it for yourself...

John 14:7-10 If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.

Philip saith unto him, Lord, show us the Father, and it sufficeth us.

Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Show us the Father?

Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.


So what is Jesus saying there?

ONE(god) is all around you. Many people say that the drop contain the whole ocean. I say in each drop is the connection to the whole. It is like internet. Do not matter where the information is. If you are connected to it you can access when god opens the firewalls and let you connect.

Originally posted by RevelationGeneration

Originally posted by Akragon
reply to post by RevelationGeneration

 

Believe whatever you like... But as i've stated, you call him a liar if you say he is God...

He also denied being God as well, but you christians conveniently forget about that...

Whatever though

So your whole argument is because Jesus never said the precise words “I am God" that means he is not God despite the fact to all the evidence to the contrary? Including John 10:30; “I and the Father are one.” And John 8:58 where Jesus says: “I tell you the truth, before Abraham was born, I am!” If that's not a claim of divinity, then what is? He never denied being God, please point out the scripture or stop lying. You are calling Jesus a liar by ignoring John 10:30 and John 8:58 where he clearly affirms his divinity.

edit on 27-3-2012 by RevelationGeneration because: (no reason given)

Who said he was not devine. You can be human and reach devinety (have the devine connection both ways with god) at the same time. I wonder if Jesus would not have been a bit angry with you putting him on a pedistal (you are pushing his ego and ego corrupts). He is a soul and have the same value as any other soul. He is just more evolved and have come further. So. It is not a race and have never been. It is one step at a time up that hill at your own pace. Even if jesus knows more he came back like any buddha/seed to help the evolution. He let himself be a tool of god and try to evolve his soulbrothers and soulsisters.

The question I wonder is does he have birthamnesia everytime he comes back? Do everybody have birthamnesia?

Originally posted by RevelationGeneration
reply to post by Akragon

 

You made a claim:

Originally posted by Akragon
reply to post by RevelationGeneration

 

Believe whatever you like... But as i've stated, you call him a liar if you say he is God...

He also denied being God as well, but you christians conveniently forget about that...

Whatever though

But we are still waiting for you to show us where Jesus denied being God. You have failed to do so. If your going to make foolish statements, at-least be able to back up your claims.

Only the Holy Spirit can reveal this truth, as you do not have it, you will not be able to understand the trinity or nature of God.

To someone who does not know Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior. The fact that they can be forgiven and have eternal life and know Jesus as Lord and Savior, or that God is a "trinity" or "triune" in nature, when they don't even know Jesus to start with.

This is what it was for the Apostles to teach, so that people could become "born again" and "new creations in Christ".

Just as your own education was progressive and did not happen in one day or even one year. Christianity is progressive, you first become saved which is most important, then once you have received Christ and have His Spirit, you will overtime grow as a Christian and biblical truths like the trinity become evident.

Teaching the trinity to someone who does not even have Christ is like trying to teach someone to multiply before they can add.

edit on 27-3-2012 by RevelationGeneration because: (no reason given)

Bah what a mixup of Jesus the man, Christ conciousness (two way connection to god/the holy spirit). It is no wonder people do not get the bible when they are mixing up the differnt definitions and can't keep them separated. If you do not have chi flowing thru your body and an opened crown chakra then how can you have recived christ conciousness? It is not by eating some food and drinking wine that you get it. (Except if the soul has the awakeening experiance at that moment but then it still not only the food and wine).

If someone have want to save you that was a part of god then will you not take the help because it is not Jesus? For me if it is Jesus or some other part of god do not matter because all parts at that evolutionary state are like one.

I will never call Jesus Lord. It is the worst insult you can give him from my point of view. He wanted to be equal to all. One with all. Not above you in any way or below you in any way.

Above are my view and I can be 100% wrong.

John 8:56-59
56 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see My day, and he saw it and was glad.”

57 Then the Jews said to Him, “You are not yet fifty years old, and have You seen Abraham?”

58 Jesus said to them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM.”

59 Then they took up stones to throw at Him; but Jesus hid Himself and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by.

All throughout the new testament Jesus is known as the Lord. What Day is the Lord's Day? The Sabbath is because he finished creation and rested from his labors that day. So when the apostles and disciples were referring to him, they didn't say the word Lord, they said Yahweh...for Jesus is Yahweh.

Lets see what Matthew has to say.


Matthew 12:1-8

1 At that time Jesus went through the grainfields on the Sabbath. And His disciples were hungry, and began to pluck heads of grain and to eat. 2 And when the Pharisees saw it, they said to Him, “Look, Your disciples are doing what is not lawful to do on the Sabbath!”

3 But He said to them, “Have you not read what David did when he was hungry, he and those who were with him: 4 how he entered the house of God and ate the showbread which was not lawful for him to eat, nor for those who were with him, but only for the priests? 5 Or have you not read in the law that on the Sabbath the priests in the temple profane the Sabbath, and are blameless? 6 Yet I say to you that in this place there is One greater than the temple. 7 But if you had known what this means, ‘I desire mercy and not sacrifice,’ you would not have condemned the guiltless. 8 For the Son of Man is Lord even of the Sabbath.”

Who else can have the right to claim he desires mercy and not sacrifice? Who else can so what goes on the Sabbath and was it permissable? He whom made it...GOD.


John 10:11-18

11 “I am the good shepherd. The good shepherd gives His life for the sheep. 12 But a hireling, he who is not the shepherd, one who does not own the sheep, sees the wolf coming and leaves the sheep and flees; and the wolf catches the sheep and scatters them. 13 The hireling flees because he is a hireling and does not care about the sheep. 14 I am the good shepherd; and I know My sheep, and am known by My own. 15 As the Father knows Me, even so I know the Father; and I lay down My life for the sheep. 16 And other sheep I have which are not of this fold; them also I must bring, and they will hear My voice; and there will be one flock and one shepherd.17 “Therefore My Father loves Me, because I lay down My life that I may take it again. 18 No one takes it from Me, but I lay it down of Myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This command I have received from My Father.”

Muslim often try to make the case that Jesus didn't die on the cross, that he was spirited away by the angels before he could die, right here Jesus said he was laying it down so he could take it up again. He Resurrected himself, no one but God can do that. Jesus also said that no one takes it from him (his life), he made the decision. The jews could only kill him because he allowed them to.

And other sheep I have which are not of this fold; them also I must bring, and they will hear My voice; and there will be one flock and one shepherd.

Who came for the Lost sheep of Israel?

Matthew 15:21-28

21 Then Jesus went out from there and departed to the region of Tyre and Sidon. 22 And behold, a woman of Canaan came from that region and cried out to Him, saying, “Have mercy on me, O Lord, Son of David! My daughter is severely demon-possessed.”

23 But He answered her not a word.

And His disciples came and urged Him, saying, “Send her away, for she cries out after us.”

24 But He answered and said, “I was not sent except to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.”

25 Then she came and worshiped Him, saying, “Lord, help me!”

26 But He answered and said, “It is not good to take the children’s bread and throw it to the little dogs.”

27 And she said, “Yes, Lord, yet even the little dogs eat the crumbs which fall from their masters’ table.”

28 Then Jesus answered and said to her, “O woman, great is your faith! Let it be to you as you desire.” And her daughter was healed from that very hour.

Wait a minute, his "other" sheep can't be muslim, because theyre trying to wipe out his lost sheep, that means his other sheep are the christians!

You people always ask the question: "If Jesus is God, how can God sit at the right hand of himself?"
The answer to that lies in the Old Testament. Lets see what the prophet Isaiah has to say.

Isaiah 59:1

1 Behold, the Lord’s hand is not shortened,
that it cannot save.
Nor His ear heavy,
That it cannot hear

Where did his arm go (His right arm is his Glory)? That question gets answered here:

Isaiah 59: 15-20

15 So truth fails,
And he who departs from evil makes himself a prey.

The Redeemer of Zion

Then the Lord saw it, and it displeased Him
That there was no justice.

16 He saw that there was no man,
And wondered that there was no intercessor;
Therefore His own arm brought salvation for Him;
And His own righteousness, it sustained Him.
17 For He put on righteousness as a breastplate,
And a helmet of salvation on His head;
He put on the garments of vengeance for clothing,
And was clad with zeal as a cloak.
18 According to their deeds, accordingly He will repay,
Fury to His adversaries,
Recompense to His enemies;
The coastlands He will fully repay.
19 So shall they fear
The name of the Lord from the west,
And His glory from the rising of the sun;
When the enemy comes in like a flood,
The Spirit of the Lord will lift up a standard against him.

20 “The Redeemer will come to Zion,
And to those who turn from transgression in Jacob,”
Says the Lord.

This part of Isaiah is prophecy of the coming of the Lord, whom was called Yeshua or Yahshua, who was to be their redeemer.

Originally posted by Akragon
reply to post by apushforenlightment

 

If you exists then you are part of ONE (god). Even if the conection is only one way and some wont listen do not mean it is not there in the unconcious.

From my point of view:
Jesus was a soul who had an "maxed out Amygdala from fear"-experiance that is one of the ways ONE uses to wake you up. vimeo.com... (a brain scientist giving a lecture how it works physicly in the brain). This made Jesus able to connect both ways.

Very true... but there is one thing people must consider...

IF Jesus did not lie... he was "the truth, the life, and the way"... and he was also "Gods son"... The one man who knew God... He and only he remembered being with God...

So his words are special... because they are directly from God

That must have been nice for him to remeber the exact/nearly exact nature of that existance. Sometimes I wonder if he was not happy when he could leave earth even if it was in a painful way. Like a bittersweet thing. Sorry for leaving his earthly friends behind but happy going home and being able to see his soulbrothers and soulsisters for real and not just feel their actions.

It is like Phil Collins say just Another Day In Paradise for Jesus.
www.youtube.com...

I hope wherever Jesus soul is. he have what he need and that he has awakened again so that he is not hurting so much from missing home. But he will do what he has to and is meant to. Namaste all and especially Jesus.

reply to post by apushforenlightment

I hope wherever Jesus soul is. he have what he need and that he has awakened again so that he is not hurting so much from missing home. But he will do what he has to and is meant to. Namaste all and especially Jesus.

He left a part of him by means of knowledge... His words are truth... they are how we know him, and God.

Check the last line of mathew... almost makes me cry

I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

reply to post by sk0rpi0n
to: the Original Post of this thread:

I would suggest listening to this interview of Bart D. Ehrman, on NPR
www.npr.org...
He explains that the writer of Luke (who also is the writer of Acts, apparently) has a different take on Jesus than the other NT writers where he does not believe the death of Jesus has any more significance than to make us feel guilty. The way he draws that feeling out in his books is by pointing out how Jesus was a good person and it was a terrible thing that they killed him. Then we are supposed to extend that out to feeling like we need to be repentant.
Bottom line, don't trust either of those books.

everyone is god in a way. he is all there really is. our identities are illusions. it appears to be an entity because of the complexity of the mind. Christ is one person who came out of this ignorance. As all enlightened beings, there is really no separation between them. The same god being expressed through different nervous systems. so yes, Jesus did claim to be god and he meant it in a literal way.

reply to post by sk0rpi0n

While there are plenty of verses that show Jesus to be a man and not divine.

Jesus was a man.

What about the other pile of verses that show Jesus doing things only God can do?

Cherry-picking is a fallacy. Christians don't deny Christ's humanity.

That's the Gnostics.