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Acts 2:22 = Jesus was a MAN approved by God

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posted on Mar, 27 2012 @ 02:24 PM
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I don't exactly refer to Acts, but I'd like to bring this up for discussion.

Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know:
-Acts 2:22


While there are plenty of verses that show Jesus to be a man and not divine....I am starting this thread to discuss Acts 2:22, which clearly establishes that Jesus was a "man approved by God".

Notice that the verse is unambigious. It does not say "Jesus was God Himself who became human" or "Jesus was part of the trinity"... as Christians believe.

My point is that anyone can refer to Acts 2:22 and conclude that the Bible itself teaches that Jesus was a "man approved by God". By the very words of the Bible itself, any non-christian can be 100% right in understanding Jesus as a man who had the approval of God.


edit on 27-3-2012 by sk0rpi0n because: (no reason given)




posted on Mar, 27 2012 @ 02:34 PM
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reply to post by sk0rpi0n
 





"man approved by God"


You may call me Mr. Smith.

Don't make me mad.
edit on 27-3-2012 by cavalryscout because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 27 2012 @ 02:35 PM
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reply to post by sk0rpi0n
 


Jesus,he's alright...the doobie brothers taught me that.Don't get me wrong,I believe he was real



posted on Mar, 27 2012 @ 02:35 PM
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reply to post by sk0rpi0n
 


I'm guessing you didn't actually read the whole book of Acts, but rather cherry picked a verse to take out of context to try and make it look like Jesus was just a man and not divine. The truth is Jesus is fully man and fully God.


Originally posted by sk0rpi0n
My point is that anyone can refer to Acts 2:22 and conclude that the Bible itself teaches that Jesus was a "man approved by God". By the very words of the Bible itself, any non-christian can be 100% right in understanding Jesus as a man who had the approval of God.

edit on 27-3-2012 by sk0rpi0n because: (no reason given)


Only if they read that one verse without reading the rest of the Book of Acts!

Verse 28 is of special importance for as it contains a reference to Jesus which identifies him as “God.” The following is the rendering of the English Standard Version,

Acts 20:28: Pay careful attention to yourselves and to all the flock, in which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to care for the church of God (ἐκκλησίαν τοῦ θεοῦ), which he obtained with his own blood (διὰ τοῦ αἵματος τοῦ ἰδίου). (Acts 20:28)

The church of God or of the Lord?

The difference between the English “God” and “Lord” is between a 3 letter word and a 4 letter word. Each has an “o” and a “d” but to move from one to the other means dropping a “G” and adding a “L” and a “r” (or vice-versa). In Greek God (in the genitive, the case used in the verse above) is θεοῦ, and Lord is κυρίου, this is clearly a larger difference than the difference between their English counterparts. So why the mix up? Well, a few possibilities surface. First, there is a phenomena in NT Greek called nomina sacra, where scribes would contract sacred names. This would be indicated by a horizontal line above the abbreviation.

For the nominative case:
God = Θεός = ΘΣ
Lord = Κύριος = ΚΣ

For Acts 20:28, the genitive would have been used. This would have made the difference between “God” and “Lord” a matter of a single letter switched out for another.

For the genitive case:
God = θεοῦ = ΘΥ
Lord = κυρίου = ΚΥ

Bruce Metzger’s textual commentary records the following insights:



The expression ἐκκλησία κυρίου occurs seven times in the Septuagint but nowhere in the New Testament. On the other hand, ἐκκλησία τοῦ θεοῦ appears with moderate frequency (eleven times) in the Epistles traditionally ascribed to Paul, but nowhere else in the New Testament. (The phrase αἱ ἐκκλησίαι πᾶσαι τοῦ Χριστοῦ occurs once in Ro. 16.16.) It is possible, therefore, that a scribe, finding θεοῦ in his exemplar, was influenced by Old Testament passages and altered it to κυρίου. On the other hand, it is also possible that a scribe, influenced by Pauline usage, changed κυρίου of his exemplar to θεοῦ. In support of the originality of κυρίου is the argument… that copyists were likely to substitute the more common phrase ἡ ἐκκλησίαν τοῦ θεοῦ for the more rare phrase ἡ ἐκκλησίαν τοῦ κυρίου. On the other hand, it is undeniable that θεοῦ is the more difficult reading. The following clause speaks of the church “which he obtained διὰ τοῦ αἵματος τοῦ ἰδίου.” If the is taken in its usual sense (“with his own blood”), a copyist might well raise the question, Does God have blood?, and thus be led to change θεοῦ to κυρίου. If, however, κυρίου were the original reading, there is nothing unusual in the phrase to catch the mind of the scribe and throw it off its balance. This and other considerations led the Committee (as well as a variety of other scholars) to regard θεοῦ as the original reading.[1]


To sum up this quotation: Paul spoke and Luke faithfully recorded his words under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit. Metzger contends (above) that “the church of God (θεοῦ)” is a more difficult reading than “the church of the Lord (κυρίου).” Since it is more likely for a well-meaning scribe to change from a more difficult (original) phrase to a less-difficult phrase, we have an explanation of why κυρίου is a variant reading. I contend, with Metzger, that “the church of God (θεοῦ)” is the original reading.

With his own blood?

The choice between “with his own blood” and “with the blood of his Own” needs to be examined. The phrase διὰ τοῦ αἵματος τοῦ ἰδίου breaks down like this: διὰ with a genitive can be translated “through,” “by means of” or “with” (in the case of Acts 20:28 in the ESV, KJV, NKJV, NASB, NIV). τοῦ αἵματος (blood) is genitive and linked to τοῦ ἰδίου (one’s own) also genitive.

An interesting suggestion was made that υἱοῦ was dropped out from the text at the end of the verse (which would render it “with the blood of his own son”). Some translations take the liberty to insert the word “son” (see RSV, NRSV) with no textual support. This is clearly a last ditch effort to abandon an original variant in favor of a poorly attested one (not to mention, one with a lower christology).

Metzger notes that there is a “slight probability that τοῦ ἰδίου is used…as the equivalent of τοῦ ἰδίου υἱοῦ”.[2] This “slight probability” goes against an absence of examples of such usage in the New Testament and Early Christian literature. τοῦ ἰδίου (“his own”) is linked to τοῦ αἵματος (blood) in case and number. The best reading of this passage is, therefore, what we find in the ESV, “the church of God, which he obtained with his own blood.”

It should go without saying that the only person of the Godhead which had any blood to obtain a church with was Jesus Christ, God incarnate. God the Father is a spirit (John 4:24) which we know does not have a physical body. Likewise, the Holy Spirit does not dwell in a fleshy body with blood coursing through his veins. The only reasonable way to interpret this comment from Paul is that Jesus, who shed his blood to redeem the elect, is God.

Paul calls Jesus “God” elsewhere

The New Testament witness to Jesus’ deity is uniform. When you consider Paul’s comment in Acts 20:28, made to the Ephesian elders it is prudent to ask if Paul anywhere else taught that Jesus was God. Surely if this was the only instance of him teaching the deity of Jesus we would have good reason to be concerned. But in order to put such concerns to rest, we might turn to Paul’s words in Titus 2:13 where he mentions “the glory of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ,” or to Romans 9:5 where he blesses “the Christ who is God over all,” or to Colossians 2:9 “For in him [Christ] the whole fullness of deity dwells bodily.” These direct statements are supplemented by numerous others which all point to the undeniable fact that when Paul called Jesus God he was not mistaken. Rather, his proclamation of Jesus’ deity is well attested in the New Testament documents and in the faith of the 1st generation church.
edit on 27-3-2012 by RevelationGeneration because: (no reason given)

edit on 27-3-2012 by RevelationGeneration because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 27 2012 @ 02:36 PM
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God is a triune God, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.

The Bible is clear on this and this topic has been beaten to death.

Jesus Christ is/was a man just like me and you.
Jesus Christ is also God.

Jesus Christ was not a prophet or a saint, He is above them all and He is God



posted on Mar, 27 2012 @ 02:37 PM
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The title reminds me this




posted on Mar, 27 2012 @ 02:39 PM
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Originally posted by Iason321
God is a triune God, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.

The Bible is clear on this and this topic has been beaten to death.

Jesus Christ is/was a man just like me and you.
Jesus Christ is also God.

Jesus Christ was not a prophet or a saint, He is above them all and He is God


Incorrect...

God is not a triune anything...

The trinity was added 300+ years later... Read what your saviour said about him...

ONE GOD... not three.... not three in one...

Don't be fooled by the church my friend




posted on Mar, 27 2012 @ 02:42 PM
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Originally posted by Akragon

Originally posted by Iason321
God is a triune God, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.

The Bible is clear on this and this topic has been beaten to death.

Jesus Christ is/was a man just like me and you.
Jesus Christ is also God.

Jesus Christ was not a prophet or a saint, He is above them all and He is God


Incorrect...

God is not a triune anything...

The trinity was added 300+ years later... Read what your saviour said about him...

ONE GOD... not three.... not three in one...

Don't be fooled by the church my friend



I'm not being fooled by anyone.

Let me go and find some of the PLETHORA of references in the Bible that Jesus is God...

1 Timothy 3:16 -Paul Said Jesus was God manifested in the flesh.

"And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifested in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the nations, believed on in the world, received up into glory."

John 20:28 -Thomas called Jesus God.

"And Thomas answered, and said unto him, My Lord and my God."

Colosians 2:8,9 -Paul said Jesus was the fullness of the Godhead bodily.

"…Christ. For in him dwelleth all of the fullness of the Godhead bodily."

Titus 2:13 -Paul said Jesus was God.

"Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our savior, Jesus Christ."

Luke 8:39 -After Jesus healed a demon possessed man, Jesus said:

"Return to thine house, and show what great things God hath done unto thee. And he went on his way and published throughout the whole city what great things Jesus had done unto him."

Rom. 14:10b -12 -Paul uses the words Jesus and God interchangeably.

"For we shall all stand before the judgment Seat of Christ. For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God. So, then, "every one of us shall give account of himself to God."

Luke 8:39 -After Jesus healed a demon possessed man, Jesus said:

"Return to thine house, and show what great things God hath done unto thee. And he went on his way and published throughout the whole city what great things Jesus had done unto him."

Phil. 2:5b, 6 -Paul said Jesus was God.

"… Jesus Christ, who being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God."


John 10:30 - Jesus said He was part of God. He said, "I and my Father are one."
Exodus 3:14 -God identifies Himself to Moses by calling himself "I AM." Twice Jesus refers to Himself as the "I AM." Those around him knew exactly what he was saying and they were greatly offended.

"Jesus said unto them, Verily verily, I say you, before Abraham was, I am. Then they took up stones to cast at him …" (John 8:58, 59a)

"Whom seek ye? They answered him, Jesus of Nazareth. Jesus saith unto them I am he. As soon as he said unto them, I am he, they went backward, and fell to the ground." (John 18:4b, 5, 6)

[Note: In the Bible, the word "he" is in italic. Whenever a word was not in the original Greek or Hebrew, but was put in for clarity, the King James translators put the word in italic. This was done so there would be no misunderstanding about what was and was not part of the original text


Shall I continue?



posted on Mar, 27 2012 @ 02:47 PM
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reply to post by Iason321
 


ugh... not this again.


Feel free to believe he was God, im tired of this arguement...

IF he was God he would have said he was... but he did not... EVER...

IF you call him God, you make him a liar by omition... Meaning he left it out of his teachings for some reason...

He was divine... being the son of God. He was NOT God in the flesh...

Post all the references you like... but if he didn't say it (which he did not) then he wasn't God... Its as simple as that...

Further more the idea of a triune God was introduced hundreds of years later... the appostles didn't teach it, nor did Jesus...

You're listening to your church instead of reading it for yourself...




posted on Mar, 27 2012 @ 02:50 PM
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reply to post by Akragon
 


Jesus is never recorded in the Bible as saying the precise words, “I am God.” That does not mean, however, that He did not proclaim that He is God.

Take for example Jesus’ words in John 10:30; “I and the Father are one.” We need only to look at the Jews’ reaction to His statement to know He was claiming to be God. They tried to stone Him for this very reason. “… you, a mere man, claim to be God” (John 10:33). The Jews understood exactly what Jesus was claiming—deity. Notice that Jesus does not deny His claim to be God. When Jesus declared, “I and the Father are one” (John 10:30), He was saying that He and the Father are of one nature and essence. John 8:58 is another example. Jesus declared, “I tell you the truth, before Abraham was born, I am!” The response of the Jews who heard this statement was to take up stones to kill Him for blasphemy, as the Mosaic Law commanded them to do (Leviticus 24:15).

The most important reason that Jesus has to be God is that if He is not God, His death would not have been sufficient to pay the penalty for the sins of the world (1 John 2:2). A created being, which Jesus would be if He were not God, could not pay the infinite penalty required for sin against an infinite God. Only God could pay such an infinite penalty. Only God could take on the sins of the world (2 Corinthians 5:21), die, and be resurrected, proving His victory over sin and death.

www.gotquestions.org...



posted on Mar, 27 2012 @ 02:55 PM
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reply to post by Iason321
 


And by the way this verse destroys your arguement...

John 20:17
Jesus said, “Do not hold on to me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father. Go instead to my brothers and tell them, ‘I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.’

SO... God has a God?

Does that make sense to you?

One God my friend.... Not three..... NOT three in one....

but feel free to break his commandments....

Mark 12:29
And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is ONE Lord:





posted on Mar, 27 2012 @ 02:57 PM
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Originally posted by Akragon
reply to post by Iason321
 


ugh... not this again.


Feel free to believe he was God, im tired of this arguement...

IF he was God he would have said he was... but he did not... EVER...

IF you call him God, you make him a liar by omition... Meaning he left it out of his teachings for some reason...

He was divine... being the son of God. He was NOT God in the flesh...

Post all the references you like... but if he didn't say it (which he did not) then he wasn't God... Its as simple as that...

Further more the idea of a triune God was introduced hundreds of years later... the appostles didn't teach it, nor did Jesus...

You're listening to your church instead of reading it for yourself...



John 14:7-10 If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.

Philip saith unto him, Lord, show us the Father, and it sufficeth us.

Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Show us the Father?

Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.


So what is Jesus saying there?



posted on Mar, 27 2012 @ 02:58 PM
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reply to post by RevelationGeneration
 



I'm guessing you didn't actually read the whole book of Acts, but rather cherry picked a verse to take out of context to try and make it look like Jesus was just a man and not divine. The truth is Jesus is fully man and fully God.


if I am making it look like Jesus was just a man, its because Acts 2:22 makes it clear that Jesus was "a man approved by God."

Just because the bible describes Jesus as a man and you think Jesus is God, it doesn't mean Jesus is "fully man and fully God". It means there are serious contradictions in the bibles account of Jesus.

Its either that, or you are misinterpreting the bible.



posted on Mar, 27 2012 @ 03:01 PM
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reply to post by RevelationGeneration
 


Believe whatever you like... But as i've stated, you call him a liar if you say he is God...

He also denied being God as well, but you christians conveniently forget about that...

Whatever though




posted on Mar, 27 2012 @ 03:03 PM
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Originally posted by Akragon

Originally posted by Iason321
God is a triune God, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.

The Bible is clear on this and this topic has been beaten to death.

Jesus Christ is/was a man just like me and you.
Jesus Christ is also God.

Jesus Christ was not a prophet or a saint, He is above them all and He is God


Incorrect...

God is not a triune anything...

The trinity was added 300+ years later... Read what your saviour said about him...

ONE GOD... not three.... not three in one...

Don't be fooled by the church my friend



You are also incorrect more than her/him??... idk... anyways. The holy spirit first came out of Eseenic dead sea scrolls and was mentioned before the establishment of Christ. The holy spirit was apart of religious thought 200 before christ. Jesus was God .. There is part of thge trinity of God, and then you add God into it. 1 Plus 1 plus 1 is three durrr. not you just saying the obvious.... the trinity was founded 300 years later when the church put together all the information from the gathered spirituality together and thus trinity

Jesus is the moral "poster boy" dont like saying it like that for all mankind. perfect yes, influencial yes, God? Yes he is God to show as an example to all
edit on 27-3-2012 by Jordan River because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 27 2012 @ 03:04 PM
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Originally posted by Akragon
reply to post by RevelationGeneration
 


Believe whatever you like... But as i've stated, you call him a liar if you say he is God...

He also denied being God as well, but you christians conveniently forget about that...

Whatever though



When did Jesus say "I am not God"?

How do "us christians" forget it when it didn't happen?

I would never call God a liar.



posted on Mar, 27 2012 @ 03:05 PM
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reply to post by Iason321
 


Hes saying "IF you know me you know the father"... Meaning Jesus represents everything God wants us to be...

IF you know Jesus... you know how the father expects us to act.

You can't even argue the point that he was God... IF he was, and he left it out of his lessons he is a liar... and he did not lie...

Its your call... Calling him God makes him a liar by omition... in calling him the son of God, there is no error.

And "i and my father are one" does not mean they are the same... A father and his son are of the same essence... same material... but not the same person/entity.





posted on Mar, 27 2012 @ 03:07 PM
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reply to post by sk0rpi0n
 


There are no contradictions. I just refuted your whole thread. Now please read the whole Book of Acts to get an accurate picture of the truth. Also there are plenty of places in the New Testament that Paul affirms Jesus as being God. So I don't really know what your trying to accomplish here, but its obviously not going to work.



posted on Mar, 27 2012 @ 03:10 PM
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reply to post by Iason321
 



When did Jesus say "I am not God"?


How about when Jesus told Satan that only God is to be worshipped and served?

If Jesus was God, he should have said "only I, Jesus is to be worshipped and served"....

wait, if Jesus was God, you would know that Satan would not even have even dared to demand God to worship him....because " God cannot be tempted with evil, " (James 1:13)



posted on Mar, 27 2012 @ 03:11 PM
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Originally posted by Akragon
reply to post by RevelationGeneration
 


Believe whatever you like... But as i've stated, you call him a liar if you say he is God...

He also denied being God as well, but you christians conveniently forget about that...

Whatever though



So your whole argument is because Jesus never said the precise words “I am God" that means he is not God despite the fact to all the evidence to the contrary? Including John 10:30; “I and the Father are one.” And John 8:58 where Jesus says: “I tell you the truth, before Abraham was born, I am!” If that's not a claim of divinity, then what is? He never denied being God, please point out the scripture or stop lying. You are calling Jesus a liar by ignoring John 10:30 and John 8:58 where he clearly affirms his divinity.
edit on 27-3-2012 by RevelationGeneration because: (no reason given)



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