Exclusive! First hand Witness: Trayvon Martin attacked Zimmerman Zimmerman Innocent Smoking Gun

reply to post by SpaceJ

Do you have a link to an article saying that he was looking into windows?

I'll see if I can find one - I'm with the rest of the population on being largely anecdotal about this case.

www.miamiherald.com...

Trayvon Martin, 17, died Feb. 26 in a dark pathway some 20 minutes after a neighborhood watch volunteer called police saying he thought a young stranger looked suspicious. It was raining, and the volunteer thought the kid in the hoodie walked too slow and peeked in windows.

Of course, they also say this:

“I heard someone crying — not boo-hoo crying, but scared or terrified or hurt maybe,” said Mary Cutcher, 31, who lives in the Retreat at Twin Lakes townhome community where the shooting occurred. “To me, it was a child.”

Not many males sound substantially different between 17 and 25 years old. Sounds of fighting and cries of pain are difficult to separate by age.

“This was not self-defense,” Cutcher said. “We heard no fighting, no wrestling, no punching. We heard a boy crying. As soon as the shot went off, it stopped, which tells me it was the child crying. If it had been Zimmerman crying, it wouldn’t have stopped. If you’re hurting, you’re hurting.”

Fighting is actually quite a silent affair outside of foot-falls and gasps for breath. It's very difficult to say there wasn't a fight based on the absence of sound.

We can go through a point-by-point with the entire article, if you want. I don't agree with all of its interviewed witnesses who have been hollywoodized regarding fights and firearms - but about all we have is witness testimony until the case enters court.

One article said that he didn't know the area well and because it was dark he was probably looking around to make sure he was going the right way.

This is quite possible - however, there is a notable difference between someone who is looking around versus someone who is looking into windows (although people with fancy decorations can't really complain if passers-by take the opportunity to admire them). Although it is difficult to tell just what activity Martin was doing that Zimmerman interpreted to be looking into windows.

It could also be that Martin was genuinely passing through and meaning no harm at the present time, but was still scouting for potential hits in the future. It's like how people interested in buying a house may take alternate routes to look at what other neighborhoods have to offer in terms of housing for sale. They may not be intending to buy a house - but they are on the lookout for a house they would buy. Just like a burglar is going to keep an eye out for a house that he/she could rob.

I wonder why Zimmerman didn't attempt to call out from far away to ask the kid what he was doing. I guess my instinct tells me that if you feel threatened by someone you should keep an eye on them but from afar...

It's difficult to tell. According to what we do know (and I've been piecing it together), Martin fled while Zimmerman was still in his car - prompting Zimmerman to give chase (when he ended his 911 call). Supposedly, martin hid in the area, and then attacked Zimmerman from behind after he lost sight of Martin and was returning to his vehicle.

That sequence of events leaves little window for vocalizing (short of screaming in the middle of a bunch of apartment complexes).

By approaching someone you are risking giving the police another problem on top of whatever problem may or may not have existed in the first place, which is exactly what happened.

This is true. However - I live in an area where the police are going to be a good 10-30 minutes getting to you - and that is if it's an emergency. I could burn down the whole trailer park before the county could have an officer out here (well... probably not... Drug Task Force is out here every night like hair on sasquatch).

Suffice to say - if I feel someone is about to do something to cause harm to others, I will not be satisfied by: "we will send someone over to check it out."

I come from a military background with recent assignments placing an emphasis on security duties. I can certainly empathize with Zimmerman's desire to see the situation through to a conclusion.

Originally posted by Chalupas

Following somebody is not an agressive act. Try again.

I'll wait for the hearings.

Your opinion is no more valid then mine.

Originally posted by Annee

Originally posted by timetothink
reply to post by Annee

 

No they are not clones...but they are gated for the same reason to keep none owners out.

I've seen some that never close their gates. And I've seen some that have guard shacks.

My friend in PV has a code box - - - but if you are on foot there is a foot path.

Many have walk through gates - - but you have to have a clicker for the car gate.

So - - again - - no real facts.

What facts are you looking for, to be exact?

Hmm....

According to Urban Dictionary,

Skittling
The act combining the candy "Skittles" with energy drink and obtaining a euphoric high.

AriZona Iced Tea list of energy drinks:
AZ Energy
Green Tea Energy
Caution Energy
All City NRG
RxEnergy


This has nothing to do with his death, but could maybe his "midnight snack" just have been a quick fix?

Originally posted by Chalupas
Originally posted by Annee

Some witnesses claim the police restated information till they got the answer they wanted.

citation needed.

source
source

Austin is a witness,

Austin's mother, Sheryl Brown, said that her son's trauma from that night also involves media and police versions of Austin's story. The police claim that Austin told them Zimmerman was the one screaming. Although Austin couldn't tell exactly who it was, he believes that it was Martin. Brown also told HuffPost that she believes the police investigator who interviewed her son may have been trying to get Austin to provide information that he didn't have:

"That investigator said flat out that we don't think it was self-defense," Brown said, recalling the day the police came to interview Austin. "Several times he said, 'I have kids, and I'm going to tell you something that I don't tell many people.' He looked at me and said, 'You have to read between the lines. There's some stereotyping going on.' "
She continued: "He stood here in my family room telling me that this guy [Zimmerman] is not right and it wasn't self-defense and that they have to prove that it wasn't. He was adamant about that. I don't know if that was to make me less uncomfortable or to make us feel that he was on our side."

In recent days, other witnesses have come forward to say that the police attempted to twist their testimony to support Zimmerman's claims of self-defense or ignored them entirely, including two witnesses who joined the Martin family during a press conference on Friday.

reply to post by Cavalier


Cannot seem to get the fact across that he was on PRIVATE property and had no rights as a non owner...

I guess we are willing to give up private property rights along with everything else these days....the FACT is a gated community is gated for a reason.....

But this reason eludes the poster....just because you find away onto the property does not give you the right to be there.

Originally posted by Cavalier

What facts are you looking for, to be exact?

Is this a childish question?

Actual facts determined by a legal hearing.

Good enough for you?

Gated community - Definition
In its modern form, a gated community is a form of closed community, characterized by a controlled entrance for pedestrians, bicycles, and automobiles, usually staffed by full-time, private security guards, that leads into one or more small residential streets, with walls or fences surrounding the perimeter of the entire development. Many gated communities have various amenities which make it possible for residents to stay within the community for day-to-day activities.
Gated communities are a type of Common Interest Community (CIC) or Common Interest Development (CID).
Contents [hide]
1 A worldwide phenomenon
2 Analysis
3 Examples
4 External Links
A worldwide phenomenon

A limited number of gated communities have long been established for foreigners in various regions of the world. Some examples include, the worker compounds in the Middle East, built largely for the oil industry, or the compounds built under apartheid in South Africa.
In more recent times, a much larger number of gated communities has rapidly developed in various regions throughout the world, especially in China, Mexico, and the United States. Especially in China, the trend towards gated communities is accelerating, in response to changing laws and economics.
In 2000, eight million U.S. residents lived in gated communities. However, in China, by law, all new residential developments are gated, and China is already well on the way to overtaking the U.S. for the largest number of residents living in gated communities (more info).
J.G. Ballard has examined the phenomena in his novel Super-Cannes.
Analysis

Real estate developers design and build gated communities because buyers want them; the existence of walls and gates around a community enhances the value of the homes located there. Many homeowners prefer to live in gated communities, just as many apartment dwellers prefer secured buildings, not only as a deterrent to crime, but also to enjoy privacy and peace of mind.
Physical walls, in some cases fortified and surveilled, give the inhabitants a sense of security. Some sociologists have criticized the creation of these type of walls as fortressing. Opponents of gated communities argue that physical segregation is not always necessary to create defensible space, that is, to establish control over a particular space. They claim symbolic barriers can be sufficient.
Another attribute of gated communities is that in many cases their population is homogeneous, that is, grouped along boundaries of social class, race/ethnicity or culture. White flight is often a factor in this respect.

www.wordiq.com...

Originally posted by timetothink
reply to post by Cavalier

 

Cannot seem to get the fact across that he was on PRIVATE property and had no rights as a non owner...

I guess we are willing to give up private property rights along with everything else these days....the FACT is a gated community is gated for a reason.....

But this reason eludes the poster....just because you find away onto the property does not give you the right to be there.

To some, being not allowed in private property is just another form of "oppression"

reply to post by Annee


You want a legal hearing to define a private gated community???

Because that is what you replied to.

reply to post by Cavalier


Unless it's their property!!

reply to post by Annee

If the kid was white and Obama said this.

No one would notice.

There would be no comments.

He said: "If I had a son... He would look like Trayvon."

... Really? I can't figure out how to interpret that one. Obama and Trayvon share no real physical resemblance aside from... well... the whole skin-color thing.

I mean... I have to look pretty hard... but even my token black friends that I keep around for such conversations have notable differences in their physical attributes that some more versed in black people might find to be more distinctive than their skin color....

www.politico.com...

He shouldn't have strayed from the precedent. He should have said nothing.

He just wanted to be sure and say -something- because he was beginning to draw a lot of criticism from his campaign supporters for not saying anything... and has a bad habit of commenting on legal issues he has no business commenting on.

Originally posted by Annee

Originally posted by Cavalier

What facts are you looking for, to be exact?

Is this a childish question?

Actual facts determined by a legal hearing.

Good enough for you?

Someone is snappy!

Why are you asking us for facts? No one here is in the case

Originally posted by timetothink
reply to post by Annee

 

You want a legal hearing to define a private gated community???

Because that is what you replied to.

Better then a Lynch Mob - - without a trial.

Originally posted by Annee

Originally posted by timetothink
reply to post by Annee

 

You want a legal hearing to define a private gated community???

Because that is what you replied to.

Better then a Lynch Mob - - without a trial.

I agree. Using a lynch mob to define a private gated community is a bad idea.

Originally posted by Annee

Originally posted by Cavalier

What facts are you looking for, to be exact?

Is this a childish question?

Actual facts determined by a legal hearing.

Good enough for you?

Facts a guy is dead
guy who shot him hasn't been charged
those are the facts
everything else is hear say

positions are:
Racial issue backed by the president
Zimmerman acted in self defense
Martin was a nice young Boy
Martin was a gang banger
Zimmerman was a racist

Originally posted by timetothink
reply to post by Annee

 

You make no sense

as usual.

You are the one making statements about this particular gated community - - - out of your own opinion and gathered info on non-related guarded communities.

Speculation is a dangerous thing.