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Exclusive! First hand Witness: Trayvon Martin attacked Zimmerman Zimmerman Innocent Smoking Gun

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posted on Mar, 24 2012 @ 11:16 PM
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reply to post by SpaceJ
 



As we have been saying, how does chasing fit into self defense?


It is, essentially, irrelevant - despite the quotes you stated.

Under the interpretation of your quotes, if I spot someone on my property, attempting to gain access; say: "Hey, you!" - and pursue him for several meters along my property before he rounds and attacks... I have voided my right to self-defense, because I pursued him even a short distance.

The lawmakers are applying far too much hindsight. Zimmerman did not know Martin was unarmed. Zimmerman saw something in Martin's belt - and pointed this out to the 911 operator. He had reasonable suspicion that Martin was armed.

The problem with this case is that people want to treat it as a murderer/victim type of case.

It isn't. Zimmerman was not setting out to kill Martin. He set out to confront Martin, and Martin is reported to have attacked Zimmerman.

Under no circumstance did either void their right to self-defense - further, Zimmerman's use of a firearm is justified under every Force Continuum used in concealed carry courses, police agency, and the Defense Department guidelines. He was authorized the Use of Deadly Force the moment Martin displayed the intent to attack Zimmerman.

You can't decide when a person has or hasn't voided the right to self-defense unless the act is, itself, a crime.

Pursuing someone you feel is suspicious (while carrying a concealed weapon, or not) is not illegal. His status on the Neighborhood Watch also gives him more cause to personally confront individuals on the property. Currently, there is no evidence to suggest he committed a crime; while there is considerable evidence to suggest he was under assault.

Unless it can be shown that Zimmerman instigated the assault - then it's really a shut case.

Is there any evidence to suggest that Zimmerman did more to instigate an assault than, say, a night-time jogger who could have been happening by Martin in a similar situation?




posted on Mar, 24 2012 @ 11:16 PM
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reply to post by Annee
 


Do you even bother to read what you reply to?

Jesiah claimed they sent a narcotics officer instead of homicide...which there is no proof of and an Officer is just that an Officer...A homicide detective or Narco detective is different and they usually take over with the investigation.

In case this escapes you..saying they botched the investigation because they sent the wrong kind of officer makes no sense and is not true.

I thought the truth mattered to you or only if it fits your preconceived ideas???



posted on Mar, 24 2012 @ 11:17 PM
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Unless its a motor vehicle related incident there is no right to administer a drug/alcohol screen without a warrant...and those require probable cause,not just an incident....



posted on Mar, 24 2012 @ 11:18 PM
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reply to post by Aim64C
 


Very well put...

good job...thank you.



posted on Mar, 24 2012 @ 11:19 PM
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Motor vehicle tests are covered under implied consent...in essence a waiver you agree to ahead of time



posted on Mar, 24 2012 @ 11:20 PM
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Originally posted by seabag

There is a witness that saw Zimmerman attacked. Police say they have a witness that told them Martin attacked Zimmerman before the shooting. The media interviewed this guy (JOHN) in the video below and police have taken his statement:



You have posted this video and this EXACT TEXT to me about 5 times already. I have read it and responded to it each time already.



This witness corroborated Zimmerman’s story, which is why no charges have been filed.


edit on 24-3-2012 by seabag because: (no reason given)


That is bull#. No charges were filed BEFORE your fake witness surfaced. Now, give me his full name and where is testimony was sworn in or stop repeating this crap.



posted on Mar, 24 2012 @ 11:21 PM
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reply to post by GhettoRice
 


None of that matters if Martin attacked him and he was afraid for his life...which hopefully we will get an answer to...it is a tragedy either way.



posted on Mar, 24 2012 @ 11:21 PM
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Originally posted by timetothink
reply to post by jesiaha
 


First off you are going on the assumption everyone is a liar..


I'm not assuming everyone is a liar...I'm simply underlining human nature.



second I was only pointing out that YOU said there was a chase..I am saying they were facing each other...witnesses saw the man in red (Zimmerman) on the ground being beat...either witness statements are important or they aren't..

Were they found in the street where Zimmerman was suppose to be in his car?....no, that what I mean by chase



you can't just ignore them if the don't fit your narrative...ie; poor innocent kid killed by black hater. Just saying that might not be the case.

Indeed thats not the case, this is in no way my narrative, I've mentioned that race wasn't the issue in one of my first post.



posted on Mar, 24 2012 @ 11:21 PM
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reply to post by Aim64C
 


But again under the circumstance he "SHOULD" not have confronted Trayvon or been carrying a weapon himself which you claim might have peaked his interest in Trayvon.

Again if you didn't read

When the Retreat at Twin Lakes community told Sanford police it wanted to start a neighborhood watch, city volunteer program coordinator Wendy Dorival spoke to them in September 2011. Her PowerPoint presentation, and a neighborhood watch manual the city makes available, both make clear: Don't confront. "The philosophy is, 'No weapons. Don't confront. Call the police,' " Dorival said Wednesday. She said that was her last dealings with the neighborhood, which chose its own leaders and had no sanctioning or accrediting relationship with law enforcement. The National Sheriff's Association said Wednesday it has "no information indicating the community where the incident occurred has ever even registered with the NSA Neighborhood Watch program."



posted on Mar, 24 2012 @ 11:22 PM
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reply to post by Bullypulpit
 


You can deny to take one,

but then you will be revoked.



posted on Mar, 24 2012 @ 11:25 PM
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reply to post by timetothink
 


Well it does in the sense that is Zimmerman tried to confront and question/detain Trayvon then the contrary argument can be used that it is possible Trayvon acted in self defense and an altercation that Zimmerman pursued when advised not to ended up in him shooting the boy. I do agree it is tragic regardless



posted on Mar, 24 2012 @ 11:25 PM
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Originally posted by rockymcgilicutty
reply to post by LErickson
 
You are now grasping at straws.The eyewitness testomy is in the police report with his full name.With all the idiots out there feeding on speculation and hate he doesn;t want his name public but thak god he is a real american and won;t let a man be tried in the media.



Cool story bro.
Got a bridge to sell me as well?



posted on Mar, 24 2012 @ 11:26 PM
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reply to post by GhettoRice
 


I believe he had a right to carry for his own protection whether or not he was "on watch".

Meaning if he had a carry permit. If he didn't have the gun how do we know that "kid" wouldn't have killed him?

We can speculate until the cows come home...My point is..the race crap needs to stop, the presumptions need to stop and the talk of him not having the right to protect himself if he was in danger has to stop...everyone has that right..if they are in danger...which is yet to be proven either way.



posted on Mar, 24 2012 @ 11:28 PM
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Originally posted by timetothink
reply to post by Annee
 


Do you even bother to read what you reply to?

Jesiah claimed they sent a narcotics officer instead of homicide...which there is no proof of and an Officer is just that an Officer...A homicide detective or Narco detective is different and they usually take over with the investigation.


Do you bother yourself? ...I have never stated that



posted on Mar, 24 2012 @ 11:29 PM
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reply to post by GhettoRice
 


No one ever said he tried to confront or detain him...this is the danger of lies..

they keep growing with no proof...he was following the kid....the kid at some point punched him....he shot the kid...that is ALL we know.



posted on Mar, 24 2012 @ 11:29 PM
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Originally posted by popsmayhem

"When I got upstairs and looked down, the guy who was on top beating up the other guy, was the one laying in the grass, and I believe he was dead at that point," John said.on the Sanford city website, Zimmerman said he was going back to his SUV when he was attacked by the teen.

His statements to police were instrumental, because police backed up Zimmerman's claims, saying those screams on the 911 call are those of Zimmerman.
A witness we haven't heard from before paints a much different picture than we've seen so far of what happened the night 17-year-old Trayvon Martin was shot and killed.

The night of that shooting, police say there was a witness who saw it all.

Sanford police say Zimmerman was bloody in his face and head, and the back of his shirt was wet and had grass stains, indicating a struggle took place before the shooting.

NEW WITNESS ZIMMERMAN WAS ATTACKED BY TREYVON

ITS all coming out zimmerman
is the one screaming on the tape
there is a witness WHO WAS SAW IT!!
THEY WATCHED IT..

YOU HAVE ALL BEEN LIED TOO!!
it is all coming out.
trust me if they could they
would
of arrested him already
they cant cuzz zimmerman
is
innocent


ZIMMERMAN IS INNOCENT DO
NOT BELIEVE THE LIES!!
All the bs the MSM is spewing
is insane people buy right on into
the whole damn race war the
msm is selling you..
JUSTICE FOR ZIMMERMAN
A FREE MAN!!



edit on 23-3-2012 by popsmayhem because: (no reason given)

edit on 3/24/2012 by tothetenthpower because: --Mod Edit--All Caps
Really
Zimmerman is innocent of murdering someone?
You conspiracy people are insane.



posted on Mar, 24 2012 @ 11:30 PM
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Originally posted by timetothink
reply to post by Annee
 


Do you even bother to read what you reply to?

Jesiah claimed they sent a narcotics officer instead of homicide...which there is no proof of and an Officer is just that an Officer...A homicide detective or Narco detective is different and they usually take over with the investigation.

In case this escapes you..saying they botched the investigation because they sent the wrong kind of officer makes no sense and is not true.

I thought the truth mattered to you or only if it fits your preconceived ideas???




Sending a narcotics detective to the scene, instead of a homicide detective, as is typical for homicides.



Withholding a batch of telling 911 calls, including the one revealing Zimmerman's possible racist remark.

source


SANFORD - Sergeant Anthony Raimondo, the patrol officer who was initially in charge of the scene on the night Trayvon Martin was killed, was also involved in an alleged police cover-up in 2010.
source



posted on Mar, 24 2012 @ 11:31 PM
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Originally posted by Charmed707
reply to post by popsmayhem
 


It's bizarre how the media uses almost exclusively old photos of Trayvon when discussing this story. They keep trying to paint him as some innocent 'child'. He very well could have been the perpetrator in the recent break-ins and given Zimmerman good reason to be suspicious- at least more than what's being reported.

Damn, the lengths you guys go to justify this, is insane.



posted on Mar, 24 2012 @ 11:34 PM
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Originally posted by timetothink
reply to post by GhettoRice
 


Meaning if he had a carry permit. If he didn't have the gun how do we know that "kid" wouldn't have killed him?


That's even bigger speculation than me speculating him going BEYOND ALL advised actions would change the outcome of this event.

The way I see it is first it has to be shown that he did all he could not to instigate a situation which from 9-11 calls to the Director of the city watch programs stating that pursuing someone you think is up to no good should not be done. This shows he cannot claim "stand your ground", it shows he ended up using deadly force in a situation that could have been avoided.


This is what others have to say on him having a weapon and pursuing Trayvon

Chris Tutko, director of Neighborhood Watch for the National Sheriffs' Association, said Zimmerman broke some cardinal rules. First, he approached a stranger he suspected of wrongdoing. "If you see something suspicious, you report it, you step aside and you let law enforcement do their job," Tutko said. "This guy went way beyond the call of duty. At the least, he's overzealous." Second, Zimmerman carried a handgun. Police departments and sheriff's offices that train volunteers advise them never to carry weapons — though Zimmerman broke no laws by doing so because he has a concealed-weapons permit. "There's no reason to carry a gun," Tutko said.

edit on 24-3-2012 by GhettoRice because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 24 2012 @ 11:34 PM
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reply to post by jesiaha
 


My apologies..this is what you said..


The location where the fight happened and the body of Martin was found suggest that a chase occured.


It was SpaceJ who said the other....whoever said it....Annee wasn't reading what I was replying to...gotta stop bouncing between threads.



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