This is How the Ancients Moved, Cut and Engraved Great Blocks with Such Precision. No Aliens, sorry.

Originally posted by OzTiger

This equates to each stone block being placed every two to three minutes (this is without constructing the many shafts and chambers and the facing stones on completion). The majority of 'experts' state that this is impossible - BUT the facts are that they WERE built in 20 years and they are still THERE for all to see (even though time has taken it's toll on the finished product). So the question still remains, HOW did they do it.

If you take the worse case estimate of the number of blocks which discounts the amount of limestone left insitu, a better estimate may be 900,000 blocks which then gives them more time. Personally I think they started quarrying stone decades before it was needed

reply to post by fulllotusqigong


that was frikken cool! Never saw that one before

Originally posted by OzTiger
Again, with regards to some of the blocks at Puma Punku:

I can accept that the equidistant holes drilled could have been measured by the natives. I could even accept that the OP's theory on Tuning Forks could have been employed to drill these holes. What I cannot accept is the fact that these holes were drilled in a groove that does not deviate from the straight line or depth throughout and they come out at EXACTLY the corresponding point on the other side of the rock some two feet or more thick.

This is simplicity itself, if they used what today we would call a jig.

Drill the holes first, then use a saw to make the cuts. The holes facilitate removal of the stone from the double saw cut.

Originally posted by OzTiger
It is easy to see why Georgio "The Hair" Tsoukalos jumps up and down enthusiastically shouting "Aliens"!

He does it for the money, I think, because he doesn't seem to be that ignorant.

IOW, he's lying and he knows it.

Not surprising, since he publishes Erik VonDaniken's magazine.

Originally posted by OzTiger
The whole problem at Puma Punku appears to be:
1. There does not appear to be enough stones to build anything commensurate with the Computer Generated finished product.

The place, along with the neighboring Tiahuanaco site, is known to have been "mined" for stone by subsequent people.

Originally posted by OzTiger
2. The sharp angles, grooving, drilling, metal couplings, polishing and 'Lego' design appear to be far too sophisticated for our ancestors to have achieved at that time.

Not sure why you would think this, if you were willing to believe they could drill and saw stone.

Originally posted by OzTiger
3. The finished product was not just destroyed but blown to smithereens(?)
4. Then apparently buried.

See my above statement about the "mining."

Harte

Originally posted by OzTiger
This is a very interesting and informative thread gathering very diverse points of view. As is the usual on most ATS Threads though there are many who will not, or cannot, debate in an amicable way by agreeing to disagree without being disagreeable.
With regard to the Great Pyramid for instance (where there are hundreds of theories as to HOW these were built) it is generally agreed that the evidence is such that they were completed (from 'go' to 'whoa') in twenty years. This equates to each stone block being placed every two to three minutes (this is without constructing the many shafts and chambers and the facing stones on completion). The majority of 'experts' state that this is impossible - BUT the facts are that they WERE built in 20 years and they are still THERE for all to see (even though time has taken it's toll on the finished product). So the question still remains, HOW did they do it.
Again, with regards to some of the blocks at Puma Punku:

I can accept that the equidistant holes drilled could have been measured by the natives. I could even accept that the OP's theory on Tuning Forks could have been employed to drill these holes. What I cannot accept is the fact that these holes were drilled in a groove that does not deviate from the straight line or depth throughout and they come out at EXACTLY the corresponding point on the other side of the rock some two feet or more thick.
There is also the problem as to HOW the tuning fork was held in place as surely touching it anywhere would stop the vibration!?
It is easy to see why Georgio "The Hair" Tsoukalos jumps up and down enthusiastically shouting "Aliens"!
The whole problem at Puma Punku appears to be:
1. There does not appear to be enough stones to build anything commensurate with the Computer Generated finished product.
2. The sharp angles, grooving, drilling, metal couplings, polishing and 'Lego' design appear to be far too sophisticated for our ancestors to have achieved at that time.
3. The finished product was not just destroyed but blown to smithereens(?)
4. Then apparently buried.
The mystery remains and becomes more of a mystery as further theories crop up and are then debunked.
Congrats to the OP and to the many who have contributed alternative theories to this thread.
Have a nice day everyone.

edit on 29-3-2012 by OzTiger because: grammar

I think that is the most interesting stone on the whole site.

I'm in the "man has had advanced civilizations before" camp.

I also don't think it started out at 13,000 feet, I think the reason it looks like it was destroyed is from the mountain growing the way they do. For all we know that site was at sea level when first built.

Originally posted by AGWskeptic

I think that is the most interesting stone on the whole site.

I'm in the "man has had advanced civilizations before" camp.

I also don't think it started out at 13,000 feet, I think the reason it looks like it was destroyed is from the mountain growing the way they do. For all we know that site was at sea level when first built.

Yes its a very nice piece demonstrating the capabilities of the native craftsman

An extensive look at Pumapunku and other America palaces

Study

Unfortunately C-14 dates taken from under the foundation show it was built in three stages

As noted by Andean specialist, Binghamton University Anthropology professor W. H. Isbell, a radiocarbon date was obtained by Vranich from lowermost and oldest layer of mound fill forming the Pumapunku. This layer was deposited during the first of three construction epochs and dates the initial construction of the Pumapunku at 1510 ±25 B.P. C14 (AD 440; calibrated, AD 536–600). Since the radiocarbon date came from the lowermost and oldest layer of mound fill underlying the andesite and sandstone stonework, the stonework must have been constructed sometime after 1510 ±25 B.P. C14. The excavation trenches of Vranich show that the clay, sand, and gravel fill of the Pumapunku complex lies directly on the sterile middle Pleistocene sediments

So no great age but excellent architecture

I would like to see where this ancient form of thecnology was recorded? They recorded .... Drew.... Everything so thier culture was understood and not forgotten. How do you explain ancient drawings of flying ships and even a person that looks like they are driving the ship with gas pedal and all. They would have recorded your theroy without a doubt and I see no evidence that they did.

read somewhere that in Tibet, monks could levitate rocks by using certain sounds. Maybe it's some kind of knowledge left to us by our ancestors that unfortunately hasn't been studied by modern science

Originally posted by Picollo30
read somewhere that in Tibet, monks could levitate rocks by using certain sounds. Maybe it's some kind of knowledge left to us by our ancestors that unfortunately hasn't been studied by modern science

Howdy Picollo30

This was covered about 8 pages back; summary a lot of hot air and wild claims, but no evidence anyone can actually do it.

Has anybody ever lived some where with a construction project? It takes a really long time to build something and usually blocks traffic and is a hassle.

No blueprints, everything from the land. Kinda like the show Survivor. Think of it that way...good luck.

Originally posted by game over man
Has anybody ever lived some where with a construction project? It takes a really long time to build something and usually blocks traffic and is a hassle.

No blueprints, everything from the land. Kinda like the show Survivor. Think of it that way...good luck.

As I understand it the traffic was rather light, except for the sleds carrying heavy stones. They didn't call it Survivor then it was called "Scruffle', they placed leather bags over your hands, another over your head with a small hole and set you out in the desert - after a month they came back to see who was alive.

Originally posted by tracehd1
I would like to see where this ancient form of thecnology was recorded? They recorded .... Drew.... Everything so thier culture was understood and not forgotten. How do you explain ancient drawings of flying ships and even a person that looks like they are driving the ship with gas pedal and all.

That's easy.

There are no such ancient drawings.

Harte

reply to post by Picollo30




The original sound alchemy levitation culture for 90% of human history!!

A great example “form of the formless” in action from the Khoisan trance healing culture is when the cable t.v. travel host Andrew Zimmern visited a traditional Bushmen village of the Juntwazee (Zimmern's spelling) to join in their hunting/gathering cuisine. Zimmern got an experience, a rare moment shown on cable t.v., much more than he expected: Toward what I believed to be the end of the evening, Xaxe, a great hunter, healer, and shaman, laid hands on me....I felt the energy, his energy, surge through my body. He had his hands on me for about twenty-five or thirty seconds, but it felt like he had only touched me for a split second. Time stood still. I literally had a short out of body experience. I could see him touching me from just above my body, almost like I was floating six feet off the ground, watching myself. All of a sudden I was back in my body observing an image of him thumbing through the book that contained all the pictures and moments in my life. I saw images of my childhood I hadn't remembered in years, pictures of my mother and me walking on a beach and shelling, very strong images. At the time, both during his touch and immediately afterward, I described it as him flipping through the pages of my life....Later the next morning, I spoke with Xaxe about the trance dance. He told me he wanted access to me in a way that was not possible through a translator....Xaxe's curiosity was such a caring, loving gesture....When he detached from me it felt like someone was unplugging a lamp from a wall socket. As he let go of me and continued to dance around the fire, I spontaneously burst into uncontrollable tears....I had been stripped to my emotional core, completely stunned by what I had witnessed so up close and personal.151 151 Andrew Zimmern, The Bizarre Truth: how I walked out the door mouth first – and came back shaking my head (Random House, 2009), 234-5.

i just cant explain how ancient egyptians created the pyramids with ropes and copper chisels. it's just not possible guys!!!

i dont believe in the aliens build it theory, i prefer to believe in ancient bulding techniques that were lost in tine, a chapter of our history that was hidden frrom us and erased from history books.

reply to post by Shadow Herder


www.youtube.com...

History\science\logic\math and the most brilliant minds on earth says ure wrong

You got pewned=

OP, as much as your post is tremendously informative, it FAILS to answer the question of how people in prehistoric times were able to use technology that NASA's only beginning to (re)discover, and even tidy to admit publicly.

For you see... as far as we know, NASA still CAN'T cut, move and assemble huge blocks with these technologies. For doing so, they would use computers and other machinery that is alien-like to more primitive civilizations. So you are pretty much debunking your OWN claims.... logically.

If it's not aliens who did it, how, otherwise, could stone-age people KNOW that a certain pitch of sound, under some specific configuration, could move blocks that are tons, tens of tons heavy to highly-elevated areas? There had to be some really advanced knowledge of physics, alien or not, that is not in history books!

Un-debunked!

Echoing what others have said here and elsewhere - there is no absolute proof of alien/ET involvement in our history, and the complexity of these structures and others like them do not mean aliens had any part to play in their construction. It simply shows that the humans who built them were far more skilled than mainstream historians give them credit for.

The ancients certainly had methods for constructing these structures that have been overwhelmingly lost to the ravages of time, and had skills that we are only starting to regain now. Credit where credit is due, but is still wrong to discount any possibility when their is so little known about our true past.

There are certainly many holes in the mainstream explanations for the construction of ancient structures such as the pyramids, but even die-hard ancient astronaut theorists like Giorgio A. Tsoukalos do not suggest aliens built them directly. This is where many skeptic's arguments fall apart; we cannot deal in absolutes if we are to maintain any shred of credibility in such matters.

Personally, I think that it is very plausible that ETs have reached the Earth in the past, and in some way their presence has been worked into the development of human civilisation, for instance through the oft-mentioned links to aspects of religious belief. There does seem some evidence torwards this, but people like von Däniken are very hit-and-miss with their explanations, and some of their theories are clearly too outlandish for any kind of rational support.

There is no need to jump to conclusions and state that ancient architects must have got their technology, skills and understanding from aliens, but that still remains a possibility. But, until shown otherwise I think it is best to simply continue to try to explain these structures in terrestrial terms, as OP has shown, until the time comes when ET involvement is the most plausible theory.

We just need to look at these things with a clear head, and without been so open-minded that our brains fall out!

my question is where are these ooparts? Something must have survived the ravage of time

We know some items have surfaced like the batteries of Bagdad or the Antikythera Machine, but why hasn't Archeology found more proof of ancient tech? Or has it?

reply to post by ShadowOblivionX

Didnt they discuss acoustics being used on that episode though? I do believe they said the "aliens" were using it, not the past humans.
All awesome stuff, learning new ideas is fun.

Solve the riddle of the conehead skulls and you'll have your answer. And no, they're not hydrocephalic or cradle-boarded or wrapped skulls, not when the brain volume is 40% over our own brain size at present.

My take on it? Aliens have been showing up for eons. At some point they built stone monuments according to very advanced geometric and astronomic criteria with the use of lasers and anti-grav (if you have mastered space travel, you've mastered antigravity; considering how weak gravity is compared to electromagnetic forces, this is easy); the monuments were their 'castles' on Earth to give them a bit of protection and enhance their superior standing compared to the natives the same way the Queen of England has her castles... They stayed for a while and then left, or their presence has become more hidden as time went on and our own technology advanced.

I think it will be found that the conehead (along with the Starchild skull) DNA shows human characteristics but that's only because our own DNA is mixed up with theirs going back dozens of centuries. Look at Akhanaten's skull and tell me that isn't a conehead or half breed.

There's no way sheepherders in Bolivia and camel riding, primitive bread-eating, beer-quaffing, busy eeking out a living natives in Egypt built the pyramids in 20 years, starting when a Pharoah was enthroned and finishing up just in time for him to be entombed... all these buildings were built for some far more complicated purpose than just tombs and monuments to the Pharoah. Hundreds of millions of manhours spent carving, hauling and putting into place millions of massive stones? To honor Pharoah? No way. The logistics of it are impossible, even with slave labor, and it's always thrown out there that the laborers were doing it part time, during the 'off' season when the Nile inundated the land, because of their love of Pharoah. Not slaves at all, but people with plenty of time and resources to burn. Rrrriiiiiggghhhhttt.....

As a slight off-comment: One of the latest videos shows a museum curator and a display of magnificent carved STONE vases and containers. There are reportedly over 10,000 of these carved stone vases found; when asked how the stone was carved when we can't do this at this point in time, the curator answers that they have never considered that; only analyzed what the vases once held....

That's the level of curiosity and knowledge of present Egyptologists; they read what they know in a book somewhere, who also read it, who also read it, going back to the earliest supposition days. A few new ideas have been added but not much since 1912 when Tut's tomb was opened. It bears about as much relationship to the reality of the Pyramids as the bible does to our origins.

Just as an aside, it also amazes me how many people refuse to believe in 'aliens' but have no problem with the idea of a god.

reply to post by signalfire


Yes, but why jump to conclusions and say that aliens must have been involved? I accept that the ancient alien theory answers many questions that remain unsolved, but so do many theories that are strictly terrestrial in nature. I would rather argue that ET intervention in our past is a strong possibility, but that is all, and the degree to which our civilisation was affected by aliens is very debatable.

If we are going with the idea of ET intervention (which there is certainly evidence towards, though it is far from proven) then why suggest that it was the aliens themselves that built all of these structures? I can't help but think that an advanced race that, as you said, had mastered space travel would be able to do better. The Egyptian pyramids, Pumapunku and all the other sites are certainly very precise and were built by very capable architects and masons, but they are far from perfect.

Mainstream historians have so-far failed to explain how many of these structures were constructed, and the most widely accepted theories (like the rolling of the pyramid's stones along tree-trunks and up ramps) have been picked so full of holes and yet are still wrongly being taught as proven fact. But, it seems to me that it was still almost certainly humans that constructed these sites, using means and skills that have been lost or that we are only starting to rediscover now (as OP and others are attempting to suggest). Our ancestors were far more advanced than most give them credit for, but the question remains; where did this knowledge come from and why was it lost for so long?

Also, the time scale raises many questions; in comparison to the pyramids the Pumapunku site is fairly modern. Yet, the ancient alien theorists suggest that the same race that built both also intervened in the Mid-East thousands of years before that. There is apparent progression and regression in terms of achitectural achievement throughout this lengthy period, and that simply does not seem consistent with a single ET race being involved directly.

I have a lot of sympathy with what you are saying, but until the ideas of Pye and Sitchin are supported by a little more solid evidence then they will remain to most only wild speculation. To me, it is far more plausible (and yet still little more than a theory) that our human ancestors built the structures using knowledge salvaged from perhaps some ET visitation in the past. Crude human imitation and mimicing rather than the work of aliens themselves.