We are ALL born into sin and only by accepting JESUS as Lord and Savior can you get to heaven, right

yeah, because the view that there is nothing other than the physical and that love for a child, parent etc is nothing more than chemical reactions in the brain is so much more worthy...........


Ffs you may class yourself as an animal but I reckon otherwise

good topic.

we live in an age where if you do become childlike with society, you most assuredly are in a perpetual state of hell. maybe he persons who made the jesus legend did not have the foresight to know that people who are good natured are not enough to fight the evils in existence.

Originally posted by BO XIAN
reply to post by ColCurious

 

Contrary to many humans . . .

God is not absurd.

It is His nature to work all things together for good to those who Love Him and are called according to His purposes.

Turning sow's ears into silk purses is child's play for Him.

Murder remains a sin. Willful sin is a huge hazard.

This is why i find religion absurd as a whole.

If your father abandoned you before you were born, refused to ever make contact with you, would you love him?
And why are religious groups allowed to kill in the name of god, if murder is a sin?

I'm reffering to all religious groups, extremist's or not. They all do it, whether it's squatting flys or slaughtering cows, or killing another human.

Why are there exceptions "FOR EVERYTHING" in the bible. Its nothing but a huge contradiction that makes no sense, and at most it is hypocrisy in my eyes.

Originally posted by InsideYourMind

Originally posted by BO XIAN
reply to post by ColCurious

 

Contrary to many humans . . .

God is not absurd.

It is His nature to work all things together for good to those who Love Him and are called according to His purposes.

Turning sow's ears into silk purses is child's play for Him.

Murder remains a sin. Willful sin is a huge hazard.

This is why i find religion absurd as a whole.

If your father abandoned you before you were born, refused to ever make contact with you, would you love him?
And why are religious groups allowed to kill in the name of god, if murder is a sin?

I'm reffering to all religious groups, extremist's or not. They all do it, whether it's squatting flys or slaughtering cows, or killing another human.

Why are there exceptions "FOR EVERYTHING" in the bible. Its nothing but a huge contradiction that makes no sense, and at most it is hypocrisy in my eyes.

Blimey... an inteligent person!!

For the first time ever... S&F... for being honest.

reply to post by InsideYourMind


Personally, I find that perspective . . . one I largely held at one point . . . to be a rationalization.

And, in my life, I discovered, it was a cop-out.

The seeming contradictions evaporate like fog with increased understanding of God's perspective.

However, I don't think dialogue about them has convinced many people so I leave it to others to work out with Holy Spirit, IF they are so inclined . . . or not, if not so inclined.

I know God is God and I'm not.

And I'm supremely thankful for that.

He does all things well.

Originally posted by novastrike81

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
Even basic Physics says that the soul/spirit must exist forever. It has no mass, therefore is unaffected by time.

Sources, please. You also need to prove that souls even exist outside of pseudoscience. You can't make up your own Physics and pass it on as fact.

If it has no mass it's not affected gravity, velocity. Therefore it is unaffected by time. Einstein discovered time is a physical property.

Source?? E=mc^2

reply to post by BO XIAN

So, no loopholes in God's law then huh?

Wouldn't murdering those babies and going to hell for it (although it was in their best interest) still be worth it and a very christian thing to do?
I mean, sacrificing one soul to save, lets say 100 baby souls? 1000? Maybe 10000?
Everyone has a number... whats one single soul in hell compared to a MILLION saved baby souls?

I'm sure at some point God must mend his ways and acknowledge the noble motive.

ETA:
I'm not the one who came up with all this crazy stuff... I'm just exaggerating it.

reply to post by arpgme

What do you think about this?

I think its a load of horseshmit....

Hell doesn't exist... babies don't go to hell, nor do sinners or anyone else for that matter...

Hell is a fear based conversion tactic... which only works on the simple minded or people that fear the unknown...

Everyone gets into the afterlife... without exception... Though once you're there, you will be judged by your deeds in this life....

Good luck to everyone at that time

What about the millions of people who lived and died before Christianity? Do they get a free pass on Heaven's entry requirements?

Originally posted by FOXMULDER147
What about the millions of people who lived and died before Christianity? Do they get a free pass on Heaven's entry requirements?

Of course...

This is really strange, I was just posting this great excerpt, from a wonderful book, on another thread. Then I came across this thread and I just felt that my post 'over there' fits here too!

So, here it is; from a book titled The Child Within Us Lives! by William Samuel.

"When the subjective idea dawns, one's views become quantum; one's religion becomes quantum; one's experience becomes quantum; one's knowledge begins to multiply until it becomes quantum.

What is meant by this? When the subjective idea dawns, one begins to realize that the entire world is unfolding within himself. It begins to dawn that the appearance of mankind “out there” is one's “objective” view in total—one's own “possibilities” carried on to near infinity.

In the pre-subjective state, one was merely one among millions; in the subjective mode, millions are within oneself. In the objective state, there is just me and my pathetic little view of things; in the subjective state, there is this divine Awareness (which God is being) and it includes all views within itself, infinite possibilities.
In the pre-subjective state, time is linear and sequential. In the subjective state, time is less linear and not necessarily sequential. In the subjective state, time may move in both directions or not exist at all.

Einstein's equation came from a subjective state of mind. See what that little subjective idea has done within the objective world! In magnitude, subjectivism can do for the individual what quantum mechanics has done for science—and more. But, without the Child within, even subjectivism is dead in the water.

SUBJECTIVISM AND RELIGION

To the objective view, there is God and a sinful mankind struggling to return to God's grace. To the subjective view, there is God and God's Self-Awareness appearing as all possible individual states. The “return” is leaving the bonds of objectivism to re-embrace the Original Child, the subjective “Mind of God”—to let the Awareness be us which is also the Christ Truth. Then, if we are willing to continue, we find and live the balance. Here, the objective world is understood, not denied. The balance is a step beyond subjectivism, just as the subjective idea is a step beyond the objective view of things. But, listen, listen: The Child within can be found anywhere along the line at any moment! When the Child is found, we go quickly to the balance of things.

SUBJECTIVISM AND THE BIBLE
The blind caterpillar has one opinion about a particular leaf on which it walks. But how much more expansive that view becomes when the caterpillar is a sighted butterfly! Exactly so, the subjectivist has an expanded view of the Bible, considerably beyond the confining, restricting, legalistic interpretation given it by fundamentalist, objective churchdom. The winging butterfly's statements and actions relative to the Bible-leaf may seem an abomination to the caterpillars still digesting the letter of the leaf. Just as quantum mechanics seems to make a mockery of objective physics (but doesn't, really), exactly so, dawning subjectivism seems an insane mockery of religion to some religionist, especially those who think they are seeing and interpreting the Bible with the only possible view.

But just as the subjective states of mind seem superior to the limited views of objectivism, so does the view of the rediscovered and resurrected Child within (This is the third position, the “It is a mountain again” position) come as an infinitely superior view to those held by the churchman, scientist or metaphysician!

My metaphysical friends have always been nonplussed by the thought that there could be a position beyond the GOD IS ALL position. Indeed, there is. God is beyond all concepts and all “positions.” Later, we will cover this ground in detail. Meanwhile we remember that there is the third position, quite beyond metaphysics as it presently appears in the world. “finally, it is a mountain again.” Here we know what to DO concerning the mountains of life—and find ourselves capable of moving them."

------------------

The book is filled with marvelous insights and the author of the book is quite prophetic since the book was written in 1986! Its all about what we need to know about our Real identity in order to get through these chaotic times of upheaval and crumbling systems and false foundations. His message really helps clear up all the confusion too! He points us back to finding the Christ within us, the original Heart and Soul Self (the pure, Real Self, the Child before time). Every time I read it, there is something new and wonderful there; its called The Child Within Us Lives! by William Samuel

One has to consider god to know this could not be true. If there is a god he would likely be intelligent. It would not leave nothing but an ancient unprovable story about a man and his miracles to be the only way for all of humanity to find its way to heaven.

One would think if a god loved his creations he would be smart enough to provide enough objective evidence for most of them to be able to know he is real rather than relying on a human written documents that have been edited, changed and even mistranslated for centuries.

I think if there truly is a living god creator out there that we ALL will make it to his heaven because ultimately any of our failures are the responsibility of the creator who made us capable of being flawed to begin with.

Some will argue we have a choice...well we are not all living under the same circumstance and environment to come to the same conclusions of wether there is a Jesus savior or not. I do not believe a loving god would create such a system to allow so many to disbelieve. After all he is all knowing. Knowing from the begining weather you will believe or not or weather you will be a killer or not.

All world religion is a sham if there is really a god out there. They disgrace him with every single word.

reply to post by ColCurious


There seems to be an assumption . . .

that God sees things the same way you do.

I doubt seriously, that he does.

I don't pretend to be able to solve all the interesting mysteries and paradoxes involved in life . . . including spiritual life.

Moses and Paul both expressed a willing ness to be damned for the good of Israel at large. God seemed to appreciate their willingness to sacrifice themselves. He wasn't about to allow it, however.

reply to post by Xeven


God provides LOTS of evidence . . .

to individuals.

Plenty is available to all . . . within each person . . . and in the skies at night.

However, the bulk of the best evidence of a very articulate and elaborated nature

comes AFTER one submits to walking with God according to

HIS RULES,
HIS SENSIBILITIES
HIS PREFERENCES
HIS PRIORITIES.

The dialogue and dance WITH HIM THEREAFTER can include a LOT of very diverse evidence and proofs of The Bible's assertions and of God's meticulous detailed knowledge and interest in the inner depts of each individual's inner heart and inner world--as well as the mundane world of work, family, commuting, whatever..

!DEMANDING! of ALMIGHTY GOD

that HE SHOW HIMSELF FIRST . . .

according to YOUR preferences, sensibilities, and priorities

BEFORE you submit TO HIM AS GOD

has never impressed God nor won any concessions from Him

AT ALL.

His attitude about that nonsense tends to be . . . as Bill Cosby put it so well . . .

"Noah, how long can you tread water?"

HOWEVER, ONE CAN PRAY in sincerity, candor, fair-mindedness and an earnest true desire to know God:

"God, if you are there, please make yourself real to me in terms I can wrap my understanding around sufficiently to begin to walk with you and have a relationship with you. Help me to hear, see, understand the messages you send to me, the coincidences that are you speaking to me AS YOUR SPEAKING TO ME and to avoid rationalizing them away. Because, I really want to know you, if you're there--and to have a genuine relationship with you."

Then, of course, one is obligated to wait for God to speak. He does so ON HIS TERMS AND IN HIS TIMING--not ours. However, He is faithful to answer that prayer.

.
.

reply to post by BO XIAN


Which God are you refering to...

I wouldn't question but you mentioned the bible, and since there are many "Gods" within that particular book...

I was just wondering...

Rules vary from God to God...

Originally posted by FOXMULDER147
What about the millions of people who lived and died before Christianity? Do they get a free pass on Heaven's entry requirements?

God said in the Old Testament

that

"HE WHO SEEKS ME (earnestly, authentically, persistently)

SHALL

FIND ME"

Samuel Morris: The March of Faith is just such a story.

www.amazon.com...=kinw_rke_tl_1

The story occurs around the turn of the century at 1900, IIRC . . . the following narrative is my paraphrase from memory. I read the book 30-40 years ago, the first time . . . and again a few times later. It's pretty short.

Sammy was a chief's son in Africa. For centuries his tribe had warred with a neighboring tribe.

His side usually lost--though not always.

At that time, his side had lost yet again. And, as was the custom, the chief's son was held by the winning tribe and tortured until the ransome was paid.

Sammy had been beaten a lot during the day and it was in the middle of the night.

He was tied to a tall pole in the middle of a small clearing.

He was barely clinging to life. He was hanging against the pole limp, almost lifeless--totally exhausted and near death.

He hears a voice tell him:

"GET UP AND RUN"

He's convinced that he's hallucinating. He ignores the voice.

1. He has no strength to stand at all.
2. He's bound firmly to the pole--how can he run!

He hears the voice again a little more strongly . . .

"GET UP AND RUN!"

Again, he's convinced that he's hallucinating.

Moments later,

he hears the voice again a bit louder and more insistent:

"I SAID, GET UP AND RUN!"

Suddenly, he discovers to his shock that his bonds are loosed and he has strength to run.

He quickly runs into the jungle. In the depths of the jungle he discovers a light with the same voice.

The light and the voice lead him for 2 weeks through the jungle, . . . to food and water and always onwards.

At the end of the 2 weeks, the voice leads him to a walled compound.

Then the voice tells him:

"IN THERE, YOU WILL LEARN OF ME."

It is a mission compound.

IIRC, Sammy was about 16 years old when he found the Lord Jesus as His Lord and Savior.

I think he died when he was 22 or so.

In those few years, he led thousands of people to Jesus all over the world.

There would be the largest auditorium in the city packed and waiting to hear Sammy speak. unbeknown to the crowd, the second Sammy crossed a side door threshhold, hundreds of persons went screaming to the front repenting of their sins and asking God to forgive them and come into their hearts.

Sammy was exceedingly practical, candid, brutally honest and fearless. He always prayed looking up with his eyes open, talking to His Lord as his best Friend.

My own interpretation is that Sammy was desperate to know God--to have HOPE. And God chose to meet him at his point of deepest need.

God often requires that we be emptied of all we lean on . . . that we may lean more fully on Him.

reply to post by Akragon


I think it's rather evident in my signature and on my profile page.

And, I suspect that all who have read my posts with the least bit of a fair-mind and alertness have had no doubt whatsoever which God I refer to in my posts.

The God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob

The I AM THAT I AM

EL SHADDAI

JEHOVA JIRA

EMMANUEL

JESUS THE CHRIST, KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS.

THE ONE BEFORE WHOM

"Every knee shall bow and every tongue confess that Jesus is Lord."

reply to post by BO XIAN


Some of those are the ones in question...

And Jesus wasn't God...

So i would hardly say its "evident"... especially since i didn't read your sig or your profile...

"To not forbid the little children to come to me for I may be in them"

What a sick bastard this war criminal is. If destroying two cities and drowning most life on Earth isn't enough, he's now coming out as a paedophile. When Christ returns, arrest him and put him in the Hague!

LMAO. That's all that can be said for organised religion; LMAO

well, i dont know about babies, but imho everyone should at least get another chance to proove himself/herself

what i dont understand is

why would "god" give (i.e.) my stepdaughter two of the rarest diseases with no chance of recovering
everyday she gets weaker and weaker

how do we as parents accept "god" into our lives when he lets this happen

and its not only my daughter, there are miljons of babies/little kids in hospitals with the most horrendous diseases, like cancer / aids / als / ms etc etc etc

how can those parents choose for a "god" who lets these things happen, no way, i will never choose heaven if this is the way "god" lets us choose .....
no, there is no justification.............

i will go to hell conciously and choose for it