We are ALL born into sin and only by accepting JESUS as Lord and Savior can you get to heaven, right

We, human beings, were designed for this planet. If the moon was not here, we would not be here. Sorry I called it "her" - name doesn't matter, but the point is that our life on this planet would not be possible without the Sun AND Moon.

reply to post by novastrike81

Why not? It's a natural process we all will go through. You don't think the brain supressing pain could have evolved? The body does it when you express certain moments of "super human strength".

I repeat. If you can only show the trait when you are dying, it cannot be passed down.

Evolution doesn't have to account for NDE's. That's now what evolution is about. That's a philosophical statement and not a biological one.

All things philosophical are the product of evolution. The product of memes competing. The product of the human species transferring from a gene-based economy to a meme-based economy. Economy here is in terms of the competition driving force of evolution.

Richard Dawkins is the source of this argument and it makes a great deal of sense. Memes are what currently drive human evolution, not genes. Some contemporaries of Dawkins now state that "temes" are also becoming an evolutionary driving force.


I'm sorry. No offense, but if you don't know these things don't pretend to. There's a great deal to understand the driving forces behind evolution. To keep it simple, you cannot select traits that only manifest themselves when you die.

reply to post by ThreeNF


Were were not designed for the planet. We are the natural adaptation to our given circumstances.

If we were designed for this planet, why can we only comfortably walk on the surface of it with shoes? Surely if we were designed for it, we would not need to protect ourselves from it; from the basic life action of movement.

reply to post by VforVendettea


What does George Carlin have to do with truth?

Humans. So stupid sometimes. Someone famous says what you agree with and you treat him as a god, as if somehow proving the god you're fighting wrong.

Forgive me, that's retarded.


If you don't like how children are raised, raise them yourself. Why do you and others believe that teaching children to be like yourself is somehow child abuse? Well if you're murdering people yea. Otherwise mind your own business.

Get over yourself. Some Muslims raise their children to be Muslim and they cure cancer. Some atheists raise their children to choose their own beliefs, and they worship pasta and have sex with sheep.

What. Can you not handle the fact that some people teach their children religious beliefs and end up perfectly normal members of humanity?


Nothing predicts how your children will end up.

reply to post by FOXMULDER147


Actually that is untrue.

You don't know if an Egyptian ship full of Hebrew slaves crashed in America. In fact, there is more evidence for that being so than what you are saying.

Behold. 1750 documents on American countrysides.

There is something remarkable that was discovered by Rev Mr SCHARTEL or SCHARTLIN who was a minister in Zell and Altbach in the Duchy of Wurtemberg but who now serves as a preacher in Pennsylvania in the township of Magunsche Macungy in the Blue Mountains Some 60 miles from Philadelphia AD 1753 when he had gone astray and was seeking the right way he chanced to find in the wilderness in a small wooded hill a stone door frame which stuck in the ground At first he thought it was a work of nature but when he had rubbed off the moss with which it was overgrown and when he regarded it attentively he found in the upper stone a legend chiseled out in Hebrew in the following words THUS FAR THE GOD OF JOSHUA HAS HELPED US

books.google.com...


Do not presume to know all of human history. You were not there.

You do not know.

reply to post by Engafan


According to the Bible is is not knowable what happens to you after death.

It would seem some go to heaven, some wait, some sleep, and many other things.

There is no universal element until the end of days.



As a Christian, God is kind of like a college student. He makes a bunch of loans and debts and deals and spends his entire existence paying them all of.

Originally posted by Gorman91
reply to post by novastrike81

 

I repeat. If you can only show the trait when you are dying, it cannot be passed down.

If the trait can't be passed down then why are there reports dating back successive generations? You didn't say what you are quoting. Here let me show you what you said:

Traits get passed down favorably by sexual selection. A dying person cannot be selected, nor pass down traits.

You never listed meme's, enviornmental pressures, or other selection methods. So don't accuse me of "pretending to know" when you show a lack of knowledge of what you're trying to explain.

Richard Dawkins is the source of this argument and it makes a great deal of sense. Memes are what currently drive human evolution, not genes. Some contemporaries of Dawkins now state that "temes" are also becoming an evolutionary driving force.

Incorrect. Meme's are not the driving force over genetic evolution. They both coexist together. Once humans were capable of imitation did meme's coevolve alongside genes.

I'm sorry. No offense, but if you don't know these things don't pretend to. There's a great deal to understand the driving forces behind evolution. To keep it simple, you cannot select traits that only manifest themselves when you die.

No offense, but stop pretending. You dont seem to understand the driving forces behind evolution since you assert that meme's are the driving force. Then again, I am talking to yet another self righteous Christian.

reply to post by novastrike81


They have ceased to coexist. Humans have fabricated their ideal and for the last couple thousand years this ideal has not moved one iota. Because our ideal for sexual selection has been transferred. The gene no longer produces the sexual preference. The gene is now forced to replicate what the meme has set as an ideal.

Memes evolve at a far far far faster rate than genes. Genes cannot keep up, thus they remain fixed, because anything too "out there" simply doesn't work. Hence why human evolution in terms of physical form has pretty much halted for the past 200,000 years. Because the gene is being forced to replicate the meme, rather than the meme forced to replicate the gene, such as in, say, apes, dolphins, and crows.

To put that simpler. A human invents something, all other humans are forces to adapt to that invention. Rather than with apes, whereby a gene makes an ability happen, and all memes come about to service that genetic ability.



The only possibility that the near death experience genes could transfer is if there were already people in existence whom could understand the meme. And if they already understood it, then that means the gene would already have existed before it existed. This is not possible.


If random ape man suddenly had a nde, and he tried to tell his tribe, he wouldn't be able to, for only he, with that trait, would understand it, for his memes serve his genes. Meanwhile when the first proper human had the first recorded nde, when he tried to tell his tribe, they already understood the concept, for their genes serve their memes.



This is the problem with the "Great Leap Forward" in terms of spirituality. And quite frankly, it is a "which came first, the chicken or the egg" type of argument. It has no beginning. It's simply a mystery. One hopefully to e solved soon.

Christianity is just one of many religions that sprouted from one of many old books and has many floors in its stories, and lets face it, thats what they are, stories. Sure, us it as a guide on how to live a good life but stop preaching that everyone else is going to hell, and for ''gods'' sake (lol god) stop taking the bible so literally, makes me question the inteligance of humanity

Originally posted by arpgme

Originally posted by Akragon
reply to post by arpgme

 

What do you think about this?

I think its a load of horseshmit....

Hell doesn't exist... babies don't go to hell, nor do sinners or anyone else for that matter...

Hell is a fear based conversion tactic... which only works on the simple minded or people that fear the unknown...

Everyone gets into the afterlife... without exception... Though once you're there, you will be judged by your deeds in this life....

Good luck to everyone at that time

So what do you think about the near death experiences, when they see hell? Why do they see that ?

Every single person that has exierienced an NDE and "went to hell" that you can find on the net have a pre-concieved notion of Hell... They are almost always Christian... or come from a Christian background.

An idea was "implanted" in their mind... and the belief of hell has been set into their subconscious mind...

See if you can find a single person that "went to hell" and didn't have that upbringing or pre-concieved belief...

Pocky posts these videos on the regular... he must have about 50 of the same style videos in his threads.... every single one of them had a christian upbringing or some pre-concieved notion of hell...

reply to post by DaveNorris


I do take it literally. And I still find it compatible with evolution and the rest.

From my perspective, I ponder how silly humanity is to miss it.

Who are you to judge?

reply to post by Gorman91


Whos judging? All I said is
1. its one of many religions,
2. stop telling me im going to hell, I dont care.
3. How can you take something literally that contradicts itself all the time

reply to post by DaveNorris


I again say, you see contradictions, I don't. Who are you to judge?

reply to post by arpgme


imho, and in my experience . . .

there's a vast difference

BETWEEN

a book . . . even treating The Bible as a mere book

vs

The Living Word Christ Jesus and Holy Spirit enlivening the Bible to my daily life.

=================================

And folks on the other side have their books . . . printed matter clearly guiding their lives . . . where else do they come up with some of their stuff?

The Santa Claus?

reply to post by Gorman91


There are plenty of mysteries from our perspective.

I've just found that the Biblical walk with God answers farrrrrrr

more puzzles than any other construction on reality.

reply to post by FOXMULDER147


I strongly disagree.

Thanks, BTW, for the insults.

God's declaration that

THOSE WHO (earnestly, genuinely, persistently)

SEEK HIM, SHALL FIND HIM does answer your question.

And the example I gave of Samuel Morris--just the sort of character in Africa you were asking about gave a vivid example of just such a case.

I believe that the summary of it all is that IF AN INDIVIDUAL GENUINELY SEEKS TO KNOW THE GOD OF CREATION; THE GOD ABOVE ALL GODS . . .THAT ALMIGHTY GOD WILL reveal Himself to them one way or another . . . and . . . lead them to Salvation in Christ--regardless of whether there's any Christian involved with their case, or not.

I can lead folks to water. I cannot MAKE them understand . . . much less believe.

reply to post by pheniks


I gave you one possibility . . . one idea to explain what you presented.

You can take it or leave it . . .

just as I can take your harsh very personal assaults and insults, or leave them.

It sounds like you ASSUME that you know all there is to know about such matters

and

that you have, in your infinite wisdom, judged God Almighty to be a jerk . . . as well as anyone who dares to think differently from you.

Help yourself. That's not my reality.

reply to post by Akragon


NOPE

There's a number of cases of life-long atheists going to hell and coming back Christians.

I think MD Dr Eby sp? was one such case.

reply to post by BO XIAN


Even in the case of "athiests"... they still have a pre-concieved notion of hell...

You might find that many athiests know more about the bible the so called "Christians" do...

Again, you won't find a single case of anyone going to hell in a NDE that has no concept of hell in their mind...

reply to post by Akragon


Welllllllll

I find that an inadequate assertion . . .

And, I have not interviewed all such cases nor read all case histories of all such cases.

My fuzzy memory is that there have been exceptions to your assertion.