We are ALL born into sin and only by accepting JESUS as Lord and Savior can you get to heaven, right

reply to post by BO XIAN


It does seem minorly supported when God claims to know you before you are born, but then God would be responsible for if you choose to go against him and get damned.

Rather, it seems more like how the artist knows his creation before he makes it. A designer sketches and scratches before he designs. The design doesn't know the designer, but if the design is good enough, it can give evidence to the designer.

God doesn't lie. It's stated he makes good molds and bad molds...perhaps not bad, but rather, "common". Don't know why he makes things not meant to be the best of his own character, but then again, we all have the capacity to attain those characteristics.

reply to post by ThreeNF


Why are you calling a lazy fat white sphere in charge of the water a women? Sounds sexist. let alone a god? Sounds silly.


The moon and the sun are not needed for life. They are simply the easiest source of energy for life. Were they missing, life would simply adopt to the volcano or something.

Originally posted by arpgme
If this is true, that means that babies are burning in hell for all eternity because they were born with original sin and since they couldn't accept Jesus they couldn't be delivered from the original sin that they were born with from Adam and Eve.

Not only would babies be in heaven, but so would all of the people who were never taught about Jesus after his resurrection.

Even if you are a child and you are brainwashed and born into another religion, you still go to hell because you were born with original sin and didn't get delivered in CHRIST.


Hitler would be in heaven because God already knew he was evil since we are all born in sin and Hitler believed in Jesus as a lord and savior. Hitler said that he was born a Catholic and will die a Catholic, so he believed in Jesus!

All you need to do is accept Jesus because we are all born evil and you are saved by Grace not works so anyone can go to heaven, even if you repent after doing the most evil things...

What do you think about this?

It is called reincarnation. You really think God doesn't recycle energy?

Originally posted by Gorman91
reply to post by ThreeNF

 

Why are you calling a lazy fat white sphere in charge of the water a women? Sounds sexist. let alone a god? Sounds silly.


The moon and the sun are not needed for life. They are simply the easiest source of energy for life. Were they missing, life would simply adopt to the volcano or something.

edit on 22-1-2012 by Gorman91 because: (no reason given)

Wait a sec, sun=plants=oxygen am I not seeing what you're saying? Or are we talking about life like that silly russian venus thread?

reply to post by novastrike81


Evolution would not be able to account for "ease of dying".

Traits get passed down favorably by sexual selection. A dying person cannot be selected, nor pass down traits.


Evolution does not account nor allow for near death experiences. And hallucinations don't exactly seem to make sense either as Near Death Experiences rarely, if ever, have anything fantastical. I've seen people hallucinate. Hell, I've gone days without sleep and that led to hallucination. I don't see anything particularly godly, though at times it has lead to some interesting miracles by providing unusual courses of actions.

Point is this. Last time I went a few days without sleep and hallucinated, you want to know what I saw? A teenager dressed like he was from the 80s peering over me. Now I don't really see any such testimonies of that for heaven. In fact, the common cases of what people claim to see is somewhat suspicious towards hallucinations, because hallucinations are nearly impossible to predict what they will generate. At times my sleepless mind will make me see Thomas Jefferson, at other times I will see the entire evolutionary history of a planet. It's never going to be something I can know what's going to happen. Contrary wise, near death experiences are very easy to predict. Because they are nearly always the same bottle of bulk.


Not saying they are real, nor false. Just saying the evidence denies it being either evolutionary "coping" with death, or hallucinations.

Is it possible there's a Supreme Being for only THIS planet/solar system? Is all politics really local? If so on the former (at least), I hope and indeed pray beyond verbal description that He, She or It is adamanrtly opposed to such crass ego gratification as being worshipped. Actually I hope such a rare gem of a being would be outright against usage of the G word, upper and lower cases, in general.

I believe in evolution and creation at the same time, makes life way less stressful an I am a christian! I consider the creation more of a leap of consciousness and "The one God" accepting us as equals.

reply to post by Lightworth


no it is not possible, because any time you localize god and make him plural, you make him not god. Reason for that is that gods disagree. It's a fundamental existent fact of all polytheistic gods that they fight each other and can never kill each other. Ergo, this view if heaven is imperfect, because there is war in it.

But lo, I say this and the Bible goes ahead and says the same happened to God.

Well to me there is a difference. In the monotheistic beliefs, God snapped his fingers and ended the problem, proving his universal supremacy . In the polytheistic religions, this war is still going on and always going on and shows no means to ending. Thus, it seems to show merely the deification of ancient powers long gone and their wars with each other.

reply to post by Jordan River


I don't think God would view us as equals insomuch as he views us as something with his nature that must pay homage to the creator. No different than how a parent accepts his child has become an adult, but doesn't say he is his equal, but rather, his creation.

As for evolution and creation, Jesus said his father's work never finished, yet the Old testament says God finished and rested. Genesis 1 an 2 also do not match up. Gen 1 is god's perspective, Gen 2 is man's perspective.

The only logical conclusion I can think of is that God trolls time, basically. Right now, somewhere in the room you are standing, God, on the first week of creation, is hatching a mold spore in your room. Simultaneously, God, eons older, is watching over you and what you do. Makes sense to me, though I do not claim to be correct.

Originally posted by Gorman91
reply to post by Jordan River

 

I don't think God would view us as equals insomuch as he views us as something with his nature that must pay homage to the creator. No different than how a parent accepts his child has become an adult, but doesn't say he is his equal, but rather, his creation.

As for evolution and creation, Jesus said his father's work never finished, yet the Old testament says God finished and rested. Genesis 1 an 2 also do not match up. Gen 1 is god's perspective, Gen 2 is man's perspective.

The only logical conclusion I can think of is that God trolls time, basically. Right now, somewhere in the room you are standing, God, on the first week of creation, is hatching a mold spore in your room. Simultaneously, God, eons older, is watching over you and what you do. Makes sense to me, though I do not claim to be correct.

I think it is a battle between realms, I am not gonna sit here and muddy things up by adding another varible (satan/belial/etc) cause what is the point, i love your given assessment

reply to post by Gorman91


But there will be a war in heaven according to the bible's book of revelations (monotheistic).


I do love your evidence for Near Death Experience though. Hallucinations are not predictable, NDEs are.

People either have on or the follow:

A loving feeling accompanied by the leader of their religion [Like heaven]

A scary painful feeling accompanied by the judgement of their leader OR the rebel of their leader. [ Like hell]

Always, it is one of the two. Never anything else.

Originally posted by Gorman91
reply to post by novastrike81

 

Evolution would not be able to account for "ease of dying".

Why not? It's a natural process we all will go through. You don't think the brain supressing pain could have evolved? The body does it when you express certain moments of "super human strength".

Traits get passed down favorably by sexual selection. A dying person cannot be selected, nor pass down traits.

There are other pressures that can lead to certain traits being passed down. It's not just sexual. And what does a dying person being selected even mean? A dying persons traits would not be passed down if they didn't have children.

Evolution does not account nor allow for near death experiences.

Evolution doesn't have to account for NDE's. That's now what evolution is about. That's a philosophical statement and not a biological one.

Not saying they are real, nor false. Just saying the evidence denies it being either evolutionary "coping" with death, or hallucinations.

I never said it was "evolutionary" and if you are denying it as such, please provide some scientific source that claims this.

For the Christians:
Do people get judged upon their death? If so, why is there to be a judgement day at "the end of days" to see who goes where?
If there is to be a Judgement day to separate the wicked from the good, technically everyone who has ever died or will die has to be in some gigantic waiting room awaiting said judgement day. Hitler and Genghis playing cards, Stalin playing some 8 Ball with Alexander, etc etc etc.

I'll take a shot in the dark and say, none of you know what happens at the moment of death, Christian people who have had an NDE cannot possibly see people in hell, as there should be none there because no one has been judged yet... as judgement day never happened.

According to the Bible even the dead will be Judged... but if they're already in hell they've been judged, which makes no sense to judge them further. So, if there is no one in hell... there cannot be anyone in heaven either, according to The Bible.

John 3:13 'And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven..'
--This passage is in direct contradiction to the Bible itself, as Enoch and Elijah were taken up to heaven, without dying.

Revelations 20: 12-15
12And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
13And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
14And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
15And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

John saw all this in his sleep for those who don't know.

So by using some simple logic(IMO), you can see that no one has been judged yet, and no one will be judged till the day the Jews/Christians/Muslims call "The end of days".
NO ONE knows when this supposed event is to take place not even Christ: Mt 24:36 "But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only", how convenient that even the God-Man known as Jesus Christ doesn't know, even-though some claim he is god in mortal flesh... so from my point of view, all this judgement stuff was a way to keep people in line during the reign of the church.

Maybe I went a bit off track but I wanted some Bible quotes to go with what I wanted to show. Used my KJV of the bible.

So presented with the Bible's own words about the dead being brought back for Judgement, can anyone truly be in heaven or hell?

Please provide some bible passages to show otherwise.

FYI I am an atheist, but I still find it curious how some claim to know what will be after death from ONE book, I'm curious about death and what happens after as well, but I don't claim to know. I simply don't know.

Thanks

reply to post by arpgme

Hell is unneccessary...its a fools tool to keep people in line.

If I were the devil I would not need hell because we've brought hell to ourselves countless times already.

Hell is the jew in the concentration camp that's been forced into the position of having to remove the gold from the teeth of his family and friends.

Hell is the thousands of japanese families suffering from radiation exposure from the nuclear plant melt down due to their governments failed attempt at cheap energy.

Hell is sending off your loved ones to fight in generations of wars brought on for soul purpose of keeping a select few in corporate control over our world.

Hell is allowing the messages of our world religious doctrines to be grossly mutilated to perpetrate segregation of our countries, ethnic backgrounds, or sexual orientations.

Hell is allowing religions to be used as a tools for fear in order to maintain a populous of obediant sheeple.

Why would the devil need hell when we've already done a better job then he ever could?

We already judge ourselves and continue to do so on a daily basis. It is this judgement we pass on our own actions and those around us that allows us to learn from our mistakes and further our own evolution.

If god ended everything at this very moment, and jesus swept us all off to the magical place called heaven...all heaven would be is a place full of ignorant people that would never come to understand our own purpose nor the purpose god placed us here in the first place.

We've created our own hell, we are the devil. As long as we continue down this path we've been on for so many generations we will forever remain in hell, and we will never understand the true meaning of what heaven should be!

Originally posted by BO XIAN

Originally posted by FOXMULDER147
What about the millions of people who lived and died before Christianity? Do they get a free pass on Heaven's entry requirements?

God said in the Old Testament

that

"HE WHO SEEKS ME (earnestly, authentically, persistently)

SHALL

FIND ME"

That doesn't answer my question in any way whatsoever, nor does it even attempt to, which is what rational people have come to expect from the religious. When there's a gaping hole in your story you simply fill it with more drivel.

The millions that lived and died before Christianity didn't know your 'god', therefore it's highly unlikely they would be seeking him. Does this make sense to you? Probably not.

reply to post by BO XIAN


lmao, you really think my daughter and all those other kids chose to have these diseases, man what a #tard you are

naive sob

shes gonna die within a year, and her mom will be so devastaded she will kill herself eventually

now, when did she chose for that

Originally posted by FOXMULDER147

Originally posted by BO XIAN

Originally posted by FOXMULDER147
What about the millions of people who lived and died before Christianity? Do they get a free pass on Heaven's entry requirements?

God said in the Old Testament

that

"HE WHO SEEKS ME (earnestly, authentically, persistently)

SHALL

FIND ME"

That doesn't answer my question in any way whatsoever, nor does it even attempt to, which is what rational people have come to expect from the religious. When there's a gaping hole in your story you simply fill it with more drivel.

The millions that lived and died before Christianity didn't know your 'god', therefore it's highly unlikely they would be seeking him. Does this make sense to you? Probably not.

Abraham knew God before Judaism was formed. So how? The most we can do at this point is hope these people listened to their conscience. It is the people today, who hear of God and reject Him, that have most to fear. You cannot claim ignorance nowadays.

There is another thread " Is teaching Religion Child abuse" IME Yes it is.

Religion is nothing more than a power scheme to control the masses. You think the federal reserve is corrupt? Audit the Vatican!!! 10% of what every catholic has earned for 2000 years? Where did it all go Hmmm? The chuch doesn't do that many charitable works and what they do doesn't cost that much

It's sad when a comedian hits the nail on the head so well.

reply to post by Jordan River


Life needs energy. The sun is the easiest source.


Earth's biosphere is a wireless fusion power based system.

reply to post by arpgme


I'm not so sure the war in heaven literally is in heaven. There are two types of heaven in the bible. Space, and where God is. I will admit here I forget which "realm" this war takes place in. But I will admit there is significant evidence it takes place...literally in space.

I mean, God help me if I'm reading this wrong, but the Gospel of Mark makes is sound like Christ is going to fetch people off this planet.

At that time people will see the Son of Man coming in clouds with great power and glory. 27 And he will send his angels and gather his elect from the four winds, from the ends of the earth to the ends of the heavens.

Now I don't think I am right, but the language itself seems to say beyond the Earth.



Furthermore, heaven is suppose to be destroyed. I assume because Satan sinned there. I mean, the closest angels to God cover their faces, I suppose because of the presence of sin.

You can probably take that and the beliefs of several other ancient religions that thing the same. "Nepehlim" seem to be stated to have left the planet before the flood, only to return later.