Do you support drug testing to get approval to be on Welfare?

Originally posted by AutomaticSlim
Drug testing is a joke. The topic of testing welfare recipients really gets people going, it's a way to create more division.
What about being protected against unreasonable search of your person? Is that reserved only for certain citizens?

I think if they do drug testing, they should test for tobacco and alcohol too, I bet that would get big alcohol and tobacco up in arms.

And for all the people who want to get rid of welfare, what will happen to the people who now have no income?
Are they just going to lay down and die of starvation? Especially what about the elderly or disabled, the children?

Welfare would have to be phased out over like a 20 year period and we would likely be paying double the money or more during that time because we would certainly pump money into training programs and education programs. And yeah, that really is a crap shoot if it's going to work or not.

Again, no perfect solution other than a miracle.

right, so im guessing most people that are being drug tested fail it because of THC, since it stays in your system the longest. "what will happen to the people who now have not income"...meibe crime rates will increase now since they have to find a way to feed themselves and or get a hold of drugs.

Originally posted by BO XIAN
reply to post by NuclearPaul

 

Have been chewing on this thread since it began . . .

I remain somewhat conflicted.

1. I agree that compassion for the poor has to be a very high priority for any individual, group or nation that considers itself remotely authentically Christian.

2. It becomes problematic when the global oligarchy fosters, encourages, supports, milks ignorant addicts for all it can as it tortures their lives to the max. The PTB create addicts in dozens of ways with dozens of substances from super evil to 'merely' very evil.

3. The globalist oligarchy creates and worsens the massive epidemic of ATTACHMENT DISORDER creating children who addictively crave substances, workaholism, sexaholic behaviors etc. to try and fill the gaping holes in their hearts, emotions, psyche's that a loving responsible Daddy never filled the first 8 years of their lives.

4. And addictions to consumerism shopaholic behaviors worsens things as individuals are encouraged to believe that if they don't have the latest what's-it--big screen TV; hot vehicle; fancy tech toys; etc. then they must be worthless.

5. The poor often tend to manifest horrific collections of such problems in their individual and family lives.

6. I wish drug testing would work. I don't think it will/would.

A) Government would be tasked with it and government is THE PROBLEM's foundations. MORE CONTROLLING, BIGGER Government never becomes a solution.

B) Government would someone take the new task and make things much worse while giving more genuine losers with an entitlement mentality inflated pay in their government jobs abusing others and robbing others of yet more freedoms.

7. Yet, somehow, it would be great to make individuals and families MORE ACCOUNTABLE, SOONER FOR DESTRUCTIVE--EVEN SELF-DESTRUCTIVE BEHAVIOR.

8. Self-destructive behavior--particularly even ATTACHMENT DISORDER fostering poor parenting habits CREATES A HOST OF HIDEOUS ILLS FOR ALL SOCIETY. 95% of all prison inmates have horrific degrees of ATTACHMENT DISORDER. That's a rather costly bill for poor parenting!!!

9. While we're at it . . . components of 8. above are kids having kids . . . addicted kids having addicted babies . . . toddlers being used as punching bags; sex objects; satanic sacrifice objects . . . .

10. Other kids 'merely' grow up from 8. factors with outrageous degrees of rage at all authority figures . . . often at men in general.

11. So, how to facilitate consequences catching up with individuals making chronically poor choices SOONER. If a fine or freedoms restriction or property confiscation or high tech ankle bracelets were inflicted within 24 hours of acting out behavior--bad behavior would go down. Yet, in a pretend "free" society, such measures would also have negative consequences.

12. The globalist oligarchy purportedly has a plan--EMPOWER THE POLICE TO SHOOT DEAD ON SIGHT ALL LAW-BREAKERS regardless of the law. I guess they are still arguing about whether that includes the first parking ticket, or not.

13. AND . . . AGAIN . . . it's all moot. The oligarchy wants society to collapse so they can errect the satan worshiping global tyranny of the 7 years of The Great Tribulation. Soooo . . . regardless . . . it will all get much worse until the literally predicted Armageddon.

14. And, it looks like we may well have a full blown WWIII before the end of the year . . . folks looking down on other poor now may well be amongst the neediest soon. Then they'll see what their judgments of others feel like on the other end of the stick.

What an era to be alive in.

iv'e also been chewing this question since yesterday. i was asked by my professor this question and answered YES, since then im leaning more towards the NO after reading many arguments.

reply to post by OUTofSTEPwithTHEworld


There's so many unintended consequences when we throw OVERLY simplistic 'solutions' at complex problems.

And the problem of EVIL is primarily a spiritual problem of the heart, mind and spirit.

As The Bible says: "The weapons of our warfare are not carnal . . . "

Though I certainly believe in putting practical 'legs' to one's prayers. How to do so with this bunch of problems is challenging, at best. imho.

Certainly the globalist oligarchy will NOT HESITATE to genocidally murder

ALL THOSE who oppose them

and

ALL THOSE THEY SEE AS "USELESS EATERS."

Thanks for your kind reply.

100 %

reply to post by OUTofSTEPwithTHEworld



Do you support alcohol testing to get approval to be on Welfare?

Or any other mind altering substance available in supermarkets or farmacies. If welfare will be handed out to drug, alcohol or medicine adicts they have a chance to crawl out of their difficult situation...or to spent it all their poison. Not giving them the means to support themselves if they choose to do so will contribute to more crime....who can blame them if they have no means to buy food in the first place?

Who can know if a non drug user spent his welfare on the right things? We are all humans and if it comes to welfare there should be no discrimination. Everybody has his own responsibillity and way to live his life...either in misery or less misery if you are on welfare.

If you would ask me it is not really about how you would spent your welfare but all strategy to registrate problem citizens in society by the governement. A way to control the population and to register different kind of 'problem' citizens. If you have debt or any other 'negative contribution' to society they want to know for future reference and for knowing where to find you if 'they' need you.

People should really stop being naive and become aware and that the governmental watching eye is trying to control them with covert ways, excuses and arguments....to put it in a lyrical way.

Originally posted by BO XIAN
reply to post by OUTofSTEPwithTHEworld

 

There's so many unintended consequences when we throw OVERLY simplistic 'solutions' at complex problems.

And the problem of EVIL is primarily a spiritual problem of the heart, mind and spirit.

As The Bible says: "The weapons of our warfare are not carnal . . . "

Though I certainly believe in putting practical 'legs' to one's prayers. How to do so with this bunch of problems is challenging, at best. imho.

Certainly the globalist oligarchy will NOT HESITATE to genocidally murder

ALL THOSE who oppose them

and

ALL THOSE THEY SEE AS "USELESS EATERS."

Thanks for your kind reply.

i do agree with you on how they try to put "simple" solutions to complex matters. actually had me surprised, never heard that. im an atheist FYI but at the end of the day that is the "agenda" of TPTB to lower the population so they can be equal with nature. wow, this thread iv'e posted has really changed my perspective on this, very simple question.

Originally posted by zatara
reply to post by OUTofSTEPwithTHEworld

 

Do you support alcohol testing to get approval to be on Welfare?

Or any other mind altering substance available in supermarkets or farmacies. If welfare will be handed out to drug, alcohol or medicine adicts they have a chance to crawl out of their difficult situation...or to spent it all their poison. Not giving them the means to support themselves if they choose to do so will contribute to more crime....who can blame them if they have no means to buy food in the first place?

Who can know if a non drug user spent his welfare on the right things? We are all humans and if it comes to welfare there should be no discrimination. Everybody has his own responsibillity and way to live his life...either in misery or less misery if you are on welfare.

If you would ask me it is not really about how you would spent your welfare but all strategy to registrate problem citizens in society by the governement. A way to control the population and to register different kind of 'problem' citizens. If you have debt or any other 'negative contribution' to society they want to know for future reference and for knowing where to find you if 'they' need you.

People should really stop being naive and become aware and that the governmental watching eye is trying to control them with covert ways, excuses and arguments....to put it in a lyrical way.

edit on 11/11/2011 by zatara because: (no reason given)

NO i don't think they should be tested for any substance for many reasons provided here by many people. when i was asked by my professor on wednesday i said YES, being ignorant to the subject. if you go to facebook and see how many people answered this questions, the results would be devastating. 2,342,858 of the people voted yes, 117,046 have voted NO. those are the exact number at this moment.

reply to post by OUTofSTEPwithTHEworld


As long as they also do it for alcohol, tobacco, excess fat, not exercising, insomnia, immoral behaviour, political incorrectness, etc..

If welfare is designed to be reliant on a perfect model citizen, we would not need welfare.

As it is, it is to help people who have been put into a situation that is very undesirable. And to penalise them further for any vice they may have (testing positive for drug use does not make you a junkie scumbag who only uses drugs and beats old ladies for their pension) is not going to solve anything.

So, anything that may be considered detrimental to the state of a persons being - even sex addiction - should result in them being disqualified from welfare and thrust out into homelessness, poverty and ultimately at your behest, suicide.

If someone meets the criteria for receiving welfare, what they do in their own time, is of no ones business... unless you agree with all of the above..

May as well just get on with suicide booths, but then, who's going to pay to build these things, for the useless homeless welfare recipient druggies?

Originally posted by DarkKnight21
Yes. Simply because most working people who have jobs are drug tested.

I thought the idea of drug testing employees was to ensure safety on the job.

Strange how it boils down to it...

Originally posted by Xeven
Not really. I do however support giving them some work to do to earn the money.

We had a scheme here in Australia like that - Work for the Dole.

It created more problems than it helped in the end, as people who were genuinely seeking work, were miffed that these jobs were given to people on the dole long term. The jobs were not available at request, and were simply a method of forcing someone to work for their welfare.

If it's work and someone is willing to do it, then pay them to do it, and not give it to a long term unemployed person.

No. Not because of any ideological reasons, I just dont think it is worth the added costs and bureaucracy.

reply to post by OUTofSTEPwithTHEworld


I would throw myself in front of a train before I would take one cent from this abomination.

reply to post by Ha`la`tha



You fund it if you want to. But I should not have to pay one red cent for people whose behavior is counterproductive. Druggees are damned expensive to supprot & I say let them & the like rot.

If the theory is that they shouldn't be spending what little money they have on drugs then they should also be tested for alcohol and tobacco. Since we're talking about appropriately spending public funds, then in the interest of fairness I support the same testing for ALL public employees --- from the President alll the way to the guy who runs the town dump. If it's good for the goose...

Originally posted by jcord
You fund it if you want to. But I should not have to pay one red cent for people whose behavior is counterproductive.

Wouldn't it be nice if we could cherry pick the taxes we wish to pay? Because I wouldn't give one red cent to the military industrial complex... But we don't get to cherry pick.

Druggees are damned expensive to supprot & I say let them & the like rot.

This is about Welfare recipients, not "druggees". Or are you assuming they're one in the same?

This fireman got caught trying to buy heroin from undercover cops YESTERDAY.
www.dailynews.com...

So, we fire him,take away his pension, and make him ineligible for public assitance correct?

Nope, He'll take a leave of absence,get treatment,get reinstated in his job,continue to get paid,and still collect his pension.

A poor person tests positive for drugs, and they take away their money, if kids are in the house.

Both get paid to support their families by the government. One is earning his keep. One is not. Not all poor people skipped school, and didn't learn a jobskill.

Skilled jobs that pay more then minimum wage are still at a premium out there.

With minimum wage at 8bucks an hour,that comes out to 8 x's 40hours equals $320 a week or $1280 a month.
Subtract 25% for taxes. Now you have $1000.00 bucks for rent and food.(Add food stamps) Got kids too? Subtract babysitter fee's, or make one of your OTHER kids watch junior. Missing school to watch junior? You need money NOW,school can wait. That scenario was and has been played out over and over again.

Throw in some boredom and depression? Where's the drugs? NOW your going to test them or take away their assitance? Where's the clean drug test kit?

I know rich and poor people all over the U.S. that have succumbed to substance abuse. It doesn't know how much money you have. Or how much you pay to get high.

As Robin Williams said "Cocaine addiction is Gods way of saying you have too much money."

Cheap booze is a legal way to "get away." That does not constitute substance abuse,yet some people want a different high, at any cost to their health and finances.

It needs to be addressed from a different perspective IMO. Punishment and jail have not been proven effective as treatment, yet we still throw away the key to bill the Feds for funding.

I absolutly agree that people on assistance should have accountability on how they spend their money we give them.
How the hell are we going to regulate cheap booze over prescription drugs verses illegaly obtained drugs by a test?
I really don't know. As another poster suggested,you take away an addicts money to buy drugs and crime WILL increase.
And NO,I don't want the Feds paying for drugs that are bought on the streets. I'm just not sure how effective punishment by creating additional financial hardship is as a deterrent. Substance abuse is a craving that needs to be addressed.

And I DO NOT want poor people spending money on drugs. Period. And that includes tobacco. How the hell can cigarettes be OK to buy if your on State and Federal assistance? Quicker approved death certificate?

My biggest problem is the government seems to make rash decisions without thinking the idea's all the way through. Once they make a decision,it's all but impossable to admit a mistake was made and correct it.

Tough choices here.

reply to post by OUTofSTEPwithTHEworld


No. Or to be more precise HELL NO.

Drug testing, except in those cases where there is an objectively measurable immediate safety issue (ie pilots, commercial drivers, surgeons, etc) is a violation of the US Constitution, as it violates the concept of innocent until proven guilty. When and IF there is objective evidence that indicates a problem, then possibly.

And yes, I know that the SCOTUS disagrees with me on this. They are wrong.

Second point, it is just what we need, to start stacking a boatload of extra expense onto our economy. Drug tests are conducted by profit-driven corporate entities... who's going to pay for this particular waste of money?

Third, to echo BH - We don't get to pick where our taxes are spent, sadly.

Fourth, to the people who are all up in arms about their taxes going to support poor peoples' drug habits (nice assumption, by the way - Poor = Druggie?), just why is it that we never hear you all going off on the billions of our tax dollars that go to support massive corps that are making huge profit already? Petrolium, Big Agri, Big Pharma?

Just why is it you folks are OK with your tax money going to those clowns? Eh? Anybody? Crickets expected, the usual answer to that.

This stupid idea keeps being floated around, thanks to the right wing propaganda machine, whose goal is to demonize the poor masses that they are creating... after all, if you are poor, then you clearly aren't making PROFIT, and that is all the right wing cares about... Profit first, last, always and ONLY.

Stupid, stupid idea.

No. I don't support drug testing in any way shape or form. It's an invasion of privacy. No one can tell you what to do with your body, not the government and sure as hell not the private sector. No

reply to post by OUTofSTEPwithTHEworld


Yes I support it. I am a Federal employee, and I have to submit to random testing in order to keep my job. When I was in the military I had to submit to it as well. My point is that if I, as a federal employee, have to do it in order to get paid (with federal tax dollars) then someone doing nothing but walking to the mailbox to get their "gubment" check should also have to submit to drug testing. The other day I was at 7-11 and the guy in front of me bought a giant bottle of beer and some black and mild cigars with his cash, but bought a sandwich and some other food items with his government benefits card / food stamp card. There are no words to explain how mad this makes me... this gross abuse of the system put in place to help people. I say F all of them... get a job and make your own way or starve. Either way I could care less.

reply to post by OUTofSTEPwithTHEworld


Couldn't help but to pause here and contemplate the position of children in this dilemma.

Where do the rights of parents override the well being of kids ... regardless of the Parents' needs for personal indulgence ? ( whatever that may be )

Childhood should be safe and conjure fond memories, appreciated later in life ...

Avoid drug testing problems as a Parent ... Don't.
Think of your kids.

Singles ... your'e on your own ,,,