Originally posted by Lynzer
I think the drug testing implies guilt by being poor, so I'm not sure I would agree with it. BUT - I have known of several situations over the years that go like this-> "single" mother getting food stamps, day care paid for, housing assistance, and welfare money, but she secretly lives with a man who deals drugs and/or has a job. I'm not sure I agree with that. My husband and I were working poor when we were young, but we got married and did not ask for assistance, and yes we struggled at times. It didn't seem right that these "welfare couples" got so much assistance and were actually better off than we were- and we were trying to make our way in life on our own with no assistance.

It seems out of balance that this goes on. Yet, I wouldn't want someone who truly does need the assistance to not get it.

But how long would that last for the mother? As you said, her boyfriend was a drug dealer. THAT doesn't guarantee HER anything. He can leave at any moment. He can go to jail at any moment.

Take it from a ex-dealer, it all goes down the toilet sooner or later...

Originally posted by exile1981

Originally posted by Alxandro
Damn skippy!
I've had to submit to drug testing more than a few times when starting new jobs.
Why should welfare folks get a free ride? (No pun)

I recently tried to hire someone for my small business, good benefits, 23/hr to start lots of OT and travel expenses paid. I interviewed over 20 people that were on gov't assistance and when I told them that the company we do maintenance work on there sites for requires all of us to have a drug test. Each of those people said they couldn't pass and walked out of the interview. The 26th person interviewed agreed to the test and passed it. So one out of 26 people was not using an illegal substance, yup that's what I want my tax dollars to fund.

I hesitate to say this but.............YOU'RE A DARN LIE! This type of stuff you just typed is what many people actually believe too! You deserve to have your taste buds slapped from your mouth!

How the hell you interviewed 20 people on govt assistance....you put a add in the paper requesting only those on welfare! Pfft...

Originally posted by AwakeinNM
C) Welfare should be given only to those who cannot work due to major disabilities and other reasons that prevent them from being a productive member of society. Being a lazy ass moron who blazed their days away as a teenager should not qualify. Women who splort out baby after baby, each from a different father should not qualify.

Gosh, what did these people do before there was welfare?

What are you going to do when America is finished being shifted to a Third World country? When your job you currently has closes or your private business has no customers to sell too?

Are you saying that our unemployment problem is due to all of these people being lazy?

Originally posted by pistolerooo
If you really think about it Welfare is a PAYCHECK, you're paid for taking care of your children or you're paid to give money for someone to take care of you. I get a Paycheck for the work that I do for my Employer. My employer MAY drug test me, at anytime, because I cannot do my job if I am on drugs. Welfare recipients are NO DIFFERENT!!! If, I give you money to provide food and a roof over your children's heads how, can you do it while on drugs???? The logic sounds simple, you don't need a PHD to figure it out. Life is all about choices, do drugs = lose your children AND your meal ticket OR be responsible.

As a former dealer....all of my customers had jobs, many very good jobs. So how were they able to provide food and roof for their children?

Stop believing that archaic propaganda that all people on welfare are drug addicts. Most aren't...it's you everyday people who would bring me half your checks.

Originally posted by downtown436
I don't think there should be welfare.

Also, and more importantly, I don't think there should be drug testing.

So, no I don't support drug testing for welfare, it takes a waste of money, and makes an even bigger waste of money for one thing, and for another thing, you should be able to choose what substances you put in your body for any reason.

So you don't think there should be welfare...

I suppose you wish to return to a "every man for himself" society? I bet you don't however....I bet you love being able to call the police to get someone off your arse when you need help?

I agree that drugs shouldn't be illegal to begin with...

Originally posted by Darkrunner
Why not? I WORK for my money, some times 60-70 hours a week and I am drug tested regularly. Why should they NOT get drug tested when they are collecting tax payer money sitting at home?

Pay attention to the part where I inform people part of what's required to receive welfare, the community service:

"I work for the organization that police the welfare system and were you aware that an individual receiving welfare (TANF) has to give the state between 72 and 130 hours per month of community service? I suppose you, and most others weren't aware of this.

Did you know that the decision has been made to discontinue mandatory testing for welfare applicants? Guess why? They've discovered (just as many told them before) that it is a waste of money. I believe they were forced to disqualify only like 2% of applicants maybe less.

People who believe recepients of welfare are lazy drug addicts have been duped by that archaic Ronald Reagan "Welfare Queen" propaganda. No one on welfare lives like a queen and I have yet to meet someone on welfare who is a dope fiend.

Let me educate some....because I've been on both sides. I currently work for they system and before....I sold drugs.

A person strung out on dope doesn't have what it takes to receive welfare firstly. The system was reformed in '96, as I've already stated, a person has to volunteer 72-130 hours per month to continue receiving. Dope heads don't have the responsibility to do such a thing. If you know anything about fiends, they hate dealing with "them people". I see customers every day, and know many of them and most are cleaner than myself, barely drink though many smoke cigarettes or occassionally weed.

I state that I also sold drugs so I KNOW that I've never had a customer that was a welfare mom. THEY DON'T HAVE THE MONEY TO BUY DOPE!!!! What they spend their entire months check on one weekend? The typical welfare check is $200 for an ENTIRE MONTH! No my customers were you people who are damning the welfare citizens. My customers were attorneys, doctors, teachers, construction workers, and other people who had jobs. Those are the people who would come and spend half their check every pay day. I didn't have time for Charlene, mother of 5 children to be calling my phone for $20 bumps!

So please step outside and join the real world! Stop listening to that propaganda and then calling yourself aware. "

Originally posted by JohnPhoenix
As an ex drug user, Yes, I support drug testing before handing out a welfare check.

In the past i used to buy a hardcore illegal drugs from dealers that lived in low rent housing. I know them, they way they live. They are all on some type of government assistance. They take the government money and buy drugs to sell, or if they get money cards that are only good for food, they sell the food for drugs and or drug money. Whatever the government gives you there is always a way to turn it into money or drugs.

Many of these people dont turn the government assistance into drugs or money but they use it for free or cheap housing so they don't have to work a job. Then they sell drugs on the side.

I support drug testing for all forms of government assistance. If the government is going to give you a hand out, it's only fair they know their handout is not being used for illegal purposes. There is nothing unconstitutional about this.

edit on 11-11-2011 by JohnPhoenix because: sp

So if the people give the government a hand out it's only fair we know that handout isn't being used for illegal purposes right?

To validate your statement about the dealers being on govt assistance: What did they have to do to qualify for it? Careful, I work for the department that monitors govt assistance.

I recently moved from a building because of what happened to it seemingly overnight after the Section 8 vouchers were accepted there.

I moved in about 2 years ago. One Section 8 renter out of 22 units. One year later 12 units out of 22, on section 8.
Our apartments overlooked the ocean. My upstairs neighbor had a better view than me, she payed about $40 bucks, I payed around $1200 per month. She played music so loud 5 neighbors complained, I got the brunt of the noise. She stomped on my ceiling all hours, smoked in the elevator, stole other people's spots, and nothing was done to her.

Three other Section 8ers sat around all day and did drugs. Speed, crack, heroin. One was selling herself fro drugs. Ex Cons, pimps, slimy types came around all hours of the night. She told me she cheated the weekly drug tests they gave. She told me LOTS of people on Section 8 can cheat the tests.

Truth was about HALF of the Section 8ers (who got many other welfare benefits too) were on hard drugs and hang with criminals.

Long story short, I moved out and now in a great place. Drug testing? They cheat it anyways, but yeah, my taxpayer money goes to ruin neighborhoods and feed your addiction while you sit around and do dope all day?

Yeah I wanna know who you are. There are people that use Welfare for it's intended reason, but many don't. We need to weed out those that don't and have no intention of being clean. And before you judge me, you should remember that I LIVED it. I saw it with my own eyes. I have dozens of stories of cops coming with guns drawn, stolen property, fights, even a wanted MURDERER hanging out in the hallways, cops coming with guns drawn.

All of the crap evolved around drugs. So yeah, test them.

And I say this as a guy who opposes the Drug War and feels all drugs should be legal. But you take taxpayer money to fund your addictions, screw you, you threw your personal freedom away at OUR expense.

Originally posted by AwakeinNM

Originally posted by VitriolAndAngst
It isn't remotely even Constitutional. It's treating people as a SUSPECT without probable cause.

Working people are randomly drug tested at all kinds of companies. Your assertion suggests THAT is unconstitutional as well. Yet it occurs.

SURE I assert that it is unconstitutional. ... it's also totally pointless.
Humans are a massive bag of water over some bones, we have all sorts of chemicals. There are plenty of people right now, you are half out of their minds because they've been eating the wrong foods. 1/3rd of the US is nearly obese. Eating sugar makes you more violent.

There are people taking drugs who are way more effective and aware than their co-workers, and of course, there are people who are taking drugs who are ruining their lives; prescription or non-prescription.

>> The ONLY drug test that is Constitutional is if it is for "probable cause." You notice someone is not behaving right or is failing on the job. Massive sweeps or requirements are NOT -- because people have to work.

The more desperate the job situation is in America, the more BUSINESS can demand that we "prove ourselves." I think that MOST CEOs in the Fortune 500 have done something for their company, or directed it to be done, that if our justice system were actually functional THEY would be in prison. At least 65% have been indicted -- but what happens with MOST Senate investigations by committees into criminal activities of business? IT quietly goes away with a campaign contribution. Why do you think so many politicians want to be on committees? It's about the hush money, plain and simple.

>> Never has this country focused MORE on the poor, and on ridiculously high standards for people to "deserve" an entitlement (which they are damn well entitled to), or of teachers, or of anyone trying to do the right thing. Meanwhile, the Banks lose Trillions and nobody goes to jail, Wachovia launders billions in Mexican drug money and nobody goes to jail, Elections are rigged and over 80,000 people are WRONGFULLY denied their vote in Florida based on a "mistake" that was done on purpose -- nobody GOES TO JAIL. The Gulf is killed by BP and Haliburton and some other high paid jerkoffs -- nobody goes to jail.

NOBODY who abuses power like Abramoff, goes to jail.

Who goes to jail? An inner city youth with no ambition and no hope running some drugs that got paid for with money by Wachovia Bank (or some other Bank; when we are talking hundreds of Billions of dollars -- this trade is not a mom and pop outfit). A peace activist getting in the way of business. Someone trying to stop rampant death from "clean coal" slush ponds putting a hole in a tire.


You are darn right I don't think Drug Testing without REASONABLE SUSPICION is unconstitutional. I used to make allowances for SOME types of jobs like being a pilot. But Business, of course, has abused the privilege. Recently there was a plane crash because of "pilot error" -- but it wasn't because of drugs. Little known to the public, the "Pilot" was sleeping in her car, because she wasn't given housing by her company, and she only made $22,000 -- because of course, now companies can pay that little -- because they can. It's cheaper to have overworked, sleepy pilots and take the occasional risk of a plane crash -- because occasionally million-dollar lawsuits are cheaper than paying what we used to pay pilots.

The AVERAGE condition of the Average American now is; unhealthy diet, poor sleep due to stress, overweight, and riddled with plastics, estrogen, and other exotic chemicals because the STANDARDS at the EPA and FDA are up for bid. The AVERAGE American is not any better than the average drug-addled person with a habit.

First; someone in charge has to actually care about "security" and public health -- in corporations or government, before I think they DESERVE to drug test employees or homeless people or anyone else. It's more likely that the organization testing for drugs is more corrupt than any of the people they sit in judgement of.