Released: Jose Guerena SWAT Raid Video From Helmet Cam

reply to post by TrueAmerican


Hey. A real video.

Originally posted by THE_PROFESSIONAL
Its just gonna be a matter of time one of these marines makes an IED and takes out an entire SWAT unit. Im sure they learned a few things in Iraq and Afghanistan.

WTF, have you learn't nothing. These people have families too... This isn't an issue with the SWAT team, it is an American culture issue.

reply to post by TWILITE22


yes, i was kind of thinking the same thing. I was trying to look at it second by second, and it did seem odd to me too.

Originally posted by OneEleven
Sure it's sad, but the guy is just a dead dummy....

When the police come, surrender....

If you want to die before you get a chance to plead your case, be standing there with a rifle....

It's an idiot's move....Tough guy....big man....

These officers have children as well, and some of them are also war veterans....And what if he would have killed one of them?

Pulling a gun on the cops is a sure dead end...

Yeah.. we've been over this. Did you read the thread at all? Sorry im just tired of seeing posts spouting the same old drivel when we've been over this subject many times already. "Oh if a cop comes knockin you better get on your knees, bend over and obey". No.. this man was in his home with his door closed. The police busted in and fired 71 bullets. If you had watched the video, or read any of the posts you would have seen that the cops reacted from pulling up to firing the last shot all in less than 60 seconds.

What ever happened to ringing the door bell and asking to speak with the owner of the house?

Seriously, what ever happened to that?

reply to post by TrueAmerican

This is a serious wake up call to all who support that has increasingly become the police state we are living in. Don't think this could be you? Wait a little while, a Swat Team is coming up close and personal to you, your family or someone close to you soon.

Originally posted by MainLineThis
Based on CLEAR evidence, if the man had nothing to hide and was mentally stable he would be alive today. His blood is on his own hands. I know it is popular around here to act ignorant about reality, and to "rise up and condemn the man" without using your brain, but reality doesn't care about your IGNORANCE.

Did the man deserve to die? I guess the only person that can answer that is the IDIOT that confronted a swat team with a gun in his hand. Sure, the team was on edge knowing he was a combat veteran, so there is that. But this man took his life in his hands, and died BY HIS OWN ACTIONS. SO veteran or not, he is an idiot or has mental problems.

Your clear evidence was not found by the police. He died from bullet wounds and blood loss, not his own actions. You remind me of the gunner in the Collateral Murder video when the soldier on the grounds expresses horror at finding dead and dying children; "Well, they shouldn't bring their kids to a warzone!", implying that either the CIVILIAN of children themselves were at fault for getting in his crosshairs. You're saying this man died for excersising his right to bear arms. The assertion of one's own innocence and standing inside your house with a rifle are not criminal acts. Murder is.

Originally posted by MainLineThis


Anyone suggesting that this was some sort of organized "hit" needs their heads examined.

I'm betting this guy was either dirty as crap, or mentally imbalanced. Those are the only two options based on the available evidence. I have had to make life or death decisions in under 30 seconds based on very little information, and even my dumb ass is still alive. Plain and simple.

The "available evidence" shows a man being shot down by a badly informed and badly organized police firing squad. Where was the teargas? The rubber bullets? The police arrive, do not mention a warrant, do not say anything but "OPEN UP! POLICE!" then gun him down.

If you're suggesting one has to be mentally ill to ever disobey the mighty Police then you, my freind, need a big dose of reality. Ever heard of the Vichy? It's part of the WW2 story that is generally not told. They were Jews who would inform on other Jews for money and an extended lifespan. Your rationale remind me of their justifications for the deaths of innocents. "He was probably criminal, definatley up to no good, and they ARE the police (nazis) so you know that they are infallible.... can't be their fault."

This video, and the attached police statement, point towards the strong arm of the Government killing a citizen. Until you know FOR SURE he had a heroin lab in his glovebox, until you know FOR SURE that he pointed his rifle at the police, that's all you've got, fella.

I don't know if that's the true video of what really happened? I read the Star news paper of Tucson. It read that swat came in early in the morning, I'm sure when it was dark. Helmet cam? I know Tucson police are some dirty cops. If my memory serves me, the Tucson police had a felony stop at around Craycroft/29th St a few months back and shot some 50 or 60 bullets into that persons vehicle, killing the driver. I inderstand protect and serve, tho are these poor bastards even giving a chance. I lived in Tucson a few years ago, the reason I keep up with the news there. the crime in that city is over run tho this mans Wife was in direct contact with 911 responds while this incident was unfolding. This did not have to happen. For christ sake he was a Marine! Where's the humanity. reply to post by TrueAmerican

Originally posted by Cryptonomicon
What ever happened to ringing the door bell and asking to speak with the owner of the house?

Seriously, what ever happened to that?

Well we wouldn't be scared for our lives if they made a habit of knocking now would we? Tyranny. That's their answer to our growing awareness. They are especially afraid of us getting the wrong (right) ideas from all of our fellow serfs across the pond who are rebelling.

Originally posted by MidnightSunshine
reply to post by bluemirage5

 

I thought it was suspicion of drugs...not sure. I'll probably take heat for saying this but owell..
Now that we see the video, it seems to me he had to know it was cops. I heard the sirens, and I’m sure he did too. Also...Just because someone fought 2 tours in Iraq doesn’t make him a saint incapable of committing a crime.

Although i have a suspicion there is more to the story, of course. Maybe he saw, or knew something big and they were ordered to eliminate him.

You're a moron. The video clearly shows the police arrive at the guys house, no sirens on.

He then flipped them on, flipped them off, flipped them on, was told by the commanding officer to "kill that # man" and he promptly did so.

That could of been a cop passing by your house.

You hear sirens go by all day long in lots of places. Hearing a siren for less than 15 seconds, does not identify that cops are breaking into your home.

Furthermore, the tape picked up nothing being said by the guy inside the house, and they shot him from the door way. Meaning he couldn't have been deep into the house... and considering you can hear the commanding officer clear as day, telling the guy to kill the sirens, you would also hear the guy inside, if he shouted in an attempt to scare off the intruders.

So he heard a break in, grabbed his gun (which is your legal right.) Never fired it, and received 71 bullets in contrast.

71 bullets vs some one who didn't even fire one, is the very definition of overkill. Also, did you see how wreckless they were. Once shots were fired, you see officers running into danger, leaning over other officers to get shots off with their pistols.

Guess what. They went there to kill him. Plain and simple. It's evident by the fact that once shots were fired, and the situation was already "under control" other officers that should of been there for back up of the officers potentially in the line of fire, left their posts, to put themselves into the path of potential line of fire.

I.E.

This proves murderous intent beyond reasonable doubt.


P.S.

A summary of sorts.

Police show up, silently. One officer is smart enough to engage the siren, only to be told moments later (read a few second of actual sound of sirens) to "Kill that #."

I.E. This means the commanding officer was worried about their cover being blown. He didn't want the man inside the house to have any kind of warning that they were police.

The guy who busts down the door, breaks it open and runs away. The hit squad runs up to the door, and open fires. Not a single one of them said "POLICE" or "SWAT DROP YOUR WEAPON!" It was, don't blow our cover, break the door down, and open fire.

This is the only thing that happened, which is enough to prove murderous intent. They didn't follow procedure, did a no knock, no siren bust... no Police pretext, just bullets.

Argue that... I challenge you.

Lets look at a couple of very important facts here:

1. The SWAT team was raiding multiple houses suspected of pot smuggling that day. Yet this man had no criminal record, and they found no drugs in the house nor any evidence of criminal activity

2. Upon entering the house, the SWAT team did not identify themselves. They entered, and upon seeing Guerena they simply opened fire. They did not order him to drop his weapon. Let me say that one more time just to be clear: THEY DID NOT ORDER HIM TO DROP HIS WEAPON BEFORE OPENING FIRE.

3. Four days after the incident, the Prima County Sheriff department obtained a court order sealing the warrant. Now no one from the public will be able to verify its veracity.

Source

I think it's pretty obvious that there is something up with this story. Was Guerena innocent, while the cops were in the wrong? Possibly. Was Guerena a violent criminal who had it coming? possibly. Does the actual truth lie somewhere in-between? Also a possibility. But the only truth of the matter that I can see is that none of us know the real truth behind this story. So all of you on your high horses who think you know everything should really try and put a little more thought and research into your comments.

Originally posted by moondog760
Lets look at a couple of very important facts here:

1. The SWAT team was raiding multiple houses suspected of pot smuggling that day. Yet this man had no criminal record, and they found no drugs in the house nor any evidence of criminal activity

2. Upon entering the house, the SWAT team did not identify themselves. They entered, and upon seeing Guerena they simply opened fire. They did not order him to drop his weapon. Let me say that one more time just to be clear: THEY DID NOT ORDER HIM TO DROP HIS WEAPON BEFORE OPENING FIRE.

3. Four days after the incident, the Prima County Sheriff department obtained a court order sealing the warrant. Now no one from the public will be able to verify its veracity.

Source

I think it's pretty obvious that there is something up with this story. Was Guerena innocent, while the cops were in the wrong? Possibly. Was Guerena a violent criminal who had it coming? possibly. Does the actual truth lie somewhere in-between? Also a possibility. But the only truth of the matter that I can see is that none of us know the real truth behind this story. So all of you on your high horses who think you know everything should really try and put a little more thought and research into your comments.

edit on 27-5-2011 by moondog760 because: (no reason given)

You can't argue over information that you cannot obtain. It's the police's duty to prove Guerena was breaking the law, and even if he was, that doesn't give them the right to flash kill him. They aren't the judge or the jury, and I'm not sure what state this was in, but if it was one that supported capital punishment... that decision must lie in the hands of a judge and jury.

The only thing we can go on, or attack -- is the fact that the police didn't follow procedure. A procedure that is supposed to protect ALL people. The suspects as well as the officers. The officers clearly didn't want them to know they were officers. They never Identified themselves, and the commanding officer even instructed the guy to turn the sirens off, and did so, in a tone that proves he was unsatisfied with the fact that they were ever turned on in the first place.

Which means, the entire plan was to no knock no announce to provoke a confrontation, knowing that the man inside his house would likely defend himself. They also knew he was a military veteran, so they knew that he had the training to be confident enough to attempt to protect himself and as such, they should be seen as the instigators in this situation.

They sealed the warrant because they have something to hide. You don't hide evidence that vindicates your practice.... You hide evidence that vindicates your suspect.

Period.

Every officer that fired a bullet should be arrested on charges of breaking and entering (since they didn't announce warrant, or even that they were police) and should also be subsequently brought up on charges of Murder One.

Allow them a fair trial by a jury of their peers. The problem is, they won't be charged, they will be investigated by their friends, who will just say they opperated within the law.

If they went to peer review trial, they would lose... because the world knows how bad police are, and as a result the hate their peers have for them is immense. This is why they sealed the warrant, so we couldn't get our hands on the factual evidence required to issue arrest warrants by private investigation.


Then they deny the medics entry to the house, citing possible danger, when they were all inside and had the house secure. The paramedics said they didn't understand why they weren't being given access to help the man. The paramedics at the scene said the officers let him die.


It's clear cut.

reply to post by bluemirage5


The explanation by the Pima County Sheriff’s office for the home invasion has changed since the May 5 shooting. First, reports by the Sheriff’s office were that the SWAT team’s mission was to break up a suspected drug ring and that Jose fired his weapon before the SWAT team fired back. That story was later reversed when it was discovered the safety on Jose’s AR-15 was still locked. The motive for the SWAT team’s mission was then changed by the Sheriff’s office, which now says that “someone in the home” had been suspected of a connection with a home invasion robbery ring. The search warrant and court documents that would reveal what the SWAT team was looking for in Guerena’s home have been sealed by a judge and are unavailable to the public.
No drugs, cash or criminal evidence of any kind were found in the home. Neither Jose nor his wife Vanessa has a criminal record. In an attempt to discredit Guerena’s character, a lawyer for the AZCOPS law-enforcement union, Michael Storie, told the media that rifles, handguns, body armor and a portion of a law-enforcement uniform were found inside the house where Jose Guerena was shot. However, Storie was forced to admit that if SWAT members had entered the home without incident, those inside “probably … wouldn’t have been arrested.”

The most obvious observation that can be gleaned from this video is that lack of professionalism and training by the SWAT team. Guys are walking around in random directions, weapons are slung around shoulders. They aren't paying attention, they are NOT in position.

That indicates to me a horribly trained crew, and a horribly trained crew isn't skilled enough to make split second decisions required to distinguish between genuine threats (guns pointed at them) vs. expected scenarios (man holding rifle pointed towards ground).

I doubt these guys could hold of firing their weapons before distinguishing that the remote control someone is holding isn't a weapon.

This SWAT crew has the financial budget (courtesy the taxpayers) to afford all the military spec gear, but they have not invested in the proper hiring practices nor training procedures.

They are just muscle heads with guns.

reply to post by Laokin


well said brother. And lets not forget the fact that they denied him paramedics for an entire hour. I try to be as objective as I possibly can with all things. But to me this story just looks like another example abusive and downright malicious authority.

Originally posted by moondog760
reply to post by Laokin

 

well said brother. And lets not forget the fact that they denied him paramedics for an entire hour. I try to be as objective as I possibly can with all things. But to me this story just looks like another example abusive and downright malicious authority.

I had completely forgot about the medical attention.

Infact, it wasn't even for the hour. They told the paramedics not to enter... until they deemed the suspect was dead. Then they told the paramedics they could go in to remove the body. In which case, the paramedics cited that wasn't their job, that they needed a coroner there instead.




I'll actually go one step further, and say that the judge that sealed the warrant from the public, should also be arrested on conspiracy of homicide charges, contempt, accessory to murder, and corruption.

Maybe he was an undercover alien.
Extremely dangerous.
Plotting to destroy the world.

The black government found out where he was living and sent in some undercover agents pretending to be SWAT to kill him.

The End



Give me a star for my creativity

S.W.A.T. = Soldier Wannabes Acting Tough

Look, I will defend, to the death, your right to carry a single shot, muzzle loading, flintlock musket, but I'll tell you one thing: If - whether you are uniformed or not - you take more than three shots to bring a man down then you have absolutely no right to carry a firearm. You're just not using it properly or you have had no proper training. Sixty in him, with over seventy fired? In a hallway. At close range. That means these goons MISSED over ten times!!! Shooting fish in a barrel, these guys would be left with 'just chips.'

Without going in to the good and bad of the raid itself or the reasons behind it, I'm appalled that they found it necessary to use such force. Will they face any questioning? Of course not. That's how it works.
Watch the movie "First Blood." Even if he wasn't John Rambo, all it would have taken was someone he trusted to talk to him like a human being. I know real life isn't the movies, but this guy deserved some respect. Innocent until proven guilty, or innocent until shot up like Bonnie and Clyde. He may take some responsibility for not opening the door after he heard the siren, but where's the psychology report? How many soldiers come back from two tours with psychological issues? PTSD? Did the SWAT team take that into account? What was their briefing?

Their watch commander should be held liable for the death.

Here we go again with desensitizing people to over the top authority.

Originally posted by Cryptonomicon
S.W.A.T. = Soldier Wannabes Acting Tough

Got a good laugh out of that one!

The fact is that this is a crappy situation for everyone involved. Crappy because the police executed a short-sighted high-risk entry on an armed veterans house over MINOR charges. Crappy because the man most likely was holding his rifle in an attempt to figure out WHO was breaching his house and terrifying his wife and child. Crappy because the entry team used HORRIBLE, JUST DESPICABLE tactics. Crappy because they are obviously under-trained, over-armed GI Joe wannabes. Crappy because in this police state, nanny federalized bull# government deems it worthy taking lives over MARIJUANA. Crappy because we will never know the true intentions of this veteran. Crappy because even if this guy WAS transporting weed, he was doing so to make money for his family, probably unable to find a decent paying job after two tours in the hell hole that is Iraq.

This whole thing stinks to high-heavens. R.I.P brother, I hope your wife and kid(s) are able to live full, comfortable lives; however unlikely that may be.

If a man put in two tours in Iraq the least you can do is give him the benefit of the doubt and give him a chance to walk out of the house. Instead you get idiot police units trying to model their operations after special operations forces, who have an ENTIRELY different ROE and mission objective(s). The newest update to this story claims that the suspect was hit by 22 of 70+ rounds fired by officers. Not only were they SCARED little piggies, they couldn't even hit a man with 50% of their shots from nearly point-blank range.

What ever happened to two controlled shots to the torso? Hell, we practiced more humanity and self-control raiding insurgent-held compounds in the Middle-East and Asia. These cops are a miserable bunch. Even if we had shots FIRED at us over in the sandbox, we would put men down with controlled shots and have our own CORPSMEN and MEDICS TEND to the wounded insurgent or "terrorist" within minutes. These pigs let a man bleed out in his own home.

While they certainly did identify themselves to an extent, it makes no difference. The militarization of police is becoming rampant, and the sad part is they are too god damned incompetent to ever pull off the coordination and precision necessary to fill the shoes of a military model.

Sad state of affairs my brothers and sisters.