"I have gay friends, but..." Umm... No, you don't...

Originally posted by oliveoil

Originally posted by mydarkpassenger

Originally posted by oliveoil

Originally posted by mydarkpassenger

Originally posted by oliveoil
Cant we all just come to the same conclusion that Yes, being gay is wrong. But so is picking your nose, Farting, burping, lying, cheating,swearing, fighting, ect ,ect..Face it, were all human. Issue should be can we all conduct ourselves in a orderly fashion.As far as equal rights are concern, EVERYONE deserves equality, problem is ,is that equality is not a human trait. Its a goal. Great thread Jax

No we can't come to that conclusion. How is being gay wrong? Leave out the bible references and just state the argument and supporting facts that make being glbt wrong.

If you happened to view to view my rebuttal I made myself clear. If you would like to examine that, Im all ears. FYI, I did not yous any bible reference. (dont need too)

Again, just how is being gay "wrong" ?

BTW: yous? Are you from Jersey or what?

edit on 24-12-2010 by mydarkpassenger because: add

I used the term "wrong" As an analogy to describe human function I think I made myself crystal clear what I meant. You , my friend are looking for an argument, not a debate

edit on 24-12-2010 by oliveoil because: (no reason given)

About clear as mud. You make sweeping statements, be prepared to be called on them. And still no answer as to how homosexuality is "wrong"?

reply to post by Annee


I agree entirely. I was throwing it out there so people would be more specific. Because in controversial debates like these, being vague doesn't cut it. The other side will always find little specifications to exploit.

Originally posted by oliveoil

Originally posted by kinglizard
Can I be friends or love anyone who stands in opposition of my political, religious or societal beliefs? I think the answer is yes....mater of fact my own personal faith tells me to love each and everyone.

The key word here is "LOVE" not "LUST" And this is what sex is.. "LUST" weather with a man or woman. All faiths teach that men and woman are for procreation

edit on 24-12-2010 by oliveoil because: (no reason given)

Wrong again and it is "whether" not "weather".

Originally posted by arbitrarygeneraiist
reply to post by Annee

 

I agree entirely. I was throwing it out there so people would be more specific. Because in controversial debates like these, being vague doesn't cut it. The other side will always find little specifications to exploit.

OK. Thanks.

Now if we can just get past "choice" and "lifestyle"

Birthright and Orientation.

Originally posted by arbitrarygeneraiist
reply to post by mydarkpassenger

 

I don't think it's really fair to compare the two, being that the heterosexual community is many times larger than the homosexual community. So of course the heterosexual community will mostly have larger statistics than the homosexual community.

My point was to indicate how such a minority like homosexuals have such a spread of HIV and AIDs within their smaller community. You really have to look at the ratio. 1 in 5 is still a bit extreme.

It is fair when the rates of HIV transmission are adjusted for population. You are more likely to be infected by having unprotected sex in a heterosexual coupling than in a homosexual or lesbian sex act.

Being gay isn't a choice.



Being gay isn't a choice...



by the way, did I mention being gay isn't a choice?

Originally posted by Sinnthia
reply to post by neonitus

 

Not that I am gay but if you have any opinions against the way I was born in any way shape or form and you call yourself my friend, you are a liar.

Frankly I have something against the way we are all born,... into sin. Seeing as we are all in the same boat one way or another why can't we all be friends. How we choose to act on the sinful nature is where the rubber hits the road, whether adulterer, homosexual, or otherwise inclined. I am a born adulterer but I choose not to act upon my urges. Honestly to simply say it is the way I am and act upon my urges would be a cop-out.

If I see someone I care about doing something that I believe will eventually hurt them how can I continue to call myself a friend if I look the other way and simply ignore what they are doing to themselves.

reply to post by Annee


Calling homosexuality a choice does seem somewhat asinine to me. What that belief entails is that... heterosexuality is a choice as well, and that sexual attraction in general is akin to choosing between a coke and a pepsie, and that the heterosexuals and homosexuals are really all bisexuals with a stronger preference for men or women respectively.

reply to post by seeashrink


I'm not going to flame you, primarily because I respect the manner in which you responded -- you stated your position as your opinion and not as a fact of life. Respect. I don't agree with your position, but that wouldn't stop us from being friends.

I don't feel the need to demonstrate my sexuality. I don't see the sense in persecuting others for theirs. It's just that simple for me.

When I was a soldier, I didn't care about the sexual persuasion of those I showered with. They were my brothers and watched my back (no pun intended!) as I watched theirs. I had an inkling that more than a few might be gay, and I didn't give a crap, because that was not the personal variable that made an iota of difference when it came to staying alive. I never once had any gay male come on to me nor make untoward advances. This never happened in my whole life and I have and have had many gay and lesbian friends that I care about. Not once have I had one of them do anything that made me uncomfortable. How can this be? Well, I've strived in my life to get to know women, rather than just advance upon them. I sometimes had a sense that women I was attracted to were not attracted to me, and therefore I didn't pose things any further. Guess what? Gays and lesbians are the same as you and me in that regard.

I will defend equal rights for any human being, because that is the right and fair thing to do. I will defend the right of someone I disagree with ....... with equal fervor as someone I agree with, if we are talking about basic human rights. This whole issue of gays and lesbians....... most people just want to be left alone to live their lives as they see fit, and to have equal footing as everyone else. It's what I want. I suspect it's what you want. How can we as people with a regard for basic human rights deny someone based upon our own ideals?

I will only confront and push against a person who espouses hate for any group. That is the basis of prejudice. It's pre-judging a person based upon personal perceptions. To me, that is part of the worst of what we are as human beings. Live and let live, unless an individual threatens you, your family or those you love. Live and let live, unless a person threatens a person or group based upon their own personal ideology.

In my world, everyone deserves the same rights and ability to make their own way.

Originally posted by zippy1958

Originally posted by WickedStar
reply to post by seeashrink

 

I think you're as insane as you assume people who choose to be gay are. And while you didn't make that direct claim - the very fact that you believe gay people would CHOOSE a life where prejudice, redicule, neglect, abandonment, abuse, government sanctioned torture (in some places) is an everyday thing must necessitate that they are somehow insane at worst and irrational at best. It is astonishing to me that someone who is obviously intelligent could maintain this rediculous perception after being told time and time and time agian that there is no such choice being made by homosexuals. Give me one solid reason why someone would choose this life? Just this past september we saw 8 people CHOOSE to end their lives rather than endure the torture imposed on them by people who think exactly the same way you do. Don't you think that of these 8 people, at least one of them would have chosen to be heterosexual to escape their torment? If it's such an easy choice - why didn't they choose heterosexuality? Because they couldn't. That choice was not available to them the same way it's not available to you or me or anyone else. A gay man can have sex with a woman all day long - and they have, for centuries, but that never made them straight.
And thank you for bringing up the old reproduction argument agian...because apparently it needs to be addressed agian. It is very true that at least biologically, man and woman are designed to reproduce. However, the desire to reproduce is not evident in every man and woman. Does that make them unnatural? I think not! And if, in fact, it did mean that these people were "unnatural", would that also necessitate that they are some how less than those who do reproduce are? Most certainly not! Homosexuality has been demonstrated time and time agian in nature - in species different and similar to ours...you're not suggesting that these animals are also making a choice to be gay, are you?
I think that this choice argument hinges on a false supposition that homosexuality is about only about sex. It's not really. Our sexuality about who we love and want to be with and why we want to be with them. Homosexuals desire, by virture of instinct, to be with members of their same sex for a multitude of reasons - not just sex. Would you say that your love for a woman is solely dependant on your sexual interaction with her - I hope not. Hopefully, you would love her for many reasons - her sex being only one of them. It is the same with homosexuals.
So, think real hard about the day you decided that you were a heterosexual and I think you'll find that you made no such choice at all. You simply knew it - there was no question. I never made that choice either.

Absolutely fantastic post! It is NOT a choice. I fought it for years because I thought being straight would be an easier life. I cannot be what I am not. And you are right...it is NOT all about sex.

Very nicely put.

reply to post by mydarkpassenger


I'm a man. So if I have sex with another man, I'm less likely to receive HIV than if I had sex with my girlfriend?

Originally posted by mydarkpassenger

Originally posted by oliveoil

Originally posted by kinglizard
Can I be friends or love anyone who stands in opposition of my political, religious or societal beliefs? I think the answer is yes....mater of fact my own personal faith tells me to love each and everyone.

The key word here is "LOVE" not "LUST" And this is what sex is.. "LUST" weather with a man or woman. All faiths teach that men and woman are for procreation

edit on 24-12-2010 by oliveoil because: (no reason given)

Wrong again and it is "whether" not "weather".

If anything forgive me for my spelling . I assume that KL is speaking of the Christian faith.

Originally posted by arbitrarygeneraiist
reply to post by mydarkpassenger

 

I'm a man. So if I have sex with another man, I'm less likely to receive HIV than if I had sex with my girlfriend?

Yes it appears as if the gays beat us heteros when it came to cleaning up their act. We (heteros) are now the fastest growing HIV group. I am not casting any aspersions of your GF or you.

Originally posted by arbitrarygeneraiist
reply to post by Annee

 

Calling homosexuality a choice does seem somewhat asinine to me. What that belief entails is that... heterosexuality is a choice as well, and that sexual attraction in general is akin to choosing between a coke and a pepsie, and that the heterosexuals and homosexuals are really all bisexuals with a stronger preference for men or women respectively.

Which is exactly why when people make claims like that, I ask them about when they CHOSE to be straight. Just look at the two times I did that on this thread, it throws them into a mental frenzy. They just do not understand their own point when you, ya know, ask them about it.

Being straight is a choice and so is being gay.....

You choose to be straight or you choose to be gay...

Thats all I have to say.

Originally posted by arbitrarygeneraiist
reply to post by Annee

 

Calling homosexuality a choice does seem somewhat asinine to me. What that belief entails is that... heterosexuality is a choice as well, and that sexual attraction in general is akin to choosing between a coke and a pepsie, and that the heterosexuals and homosexuals are really all bisexuals with a stronger preference for men or women respectively.

True.

Recently a doctor/researcher - - stated: sexuality/gender - - - are all "shades of gray". Open minds in this area now believe the "mixed soup" of what creates human - - - is not "either - or" - - it can be any mixture of "shades of gray".

Originally posted by Xavialune
Being gay isn't a choice.



Being gay isn't a choice...



by the way, did I mention being gay isn't a choice?

Being Gay IS a choice, Reason I know this is because you have the "CHOICE" not to be!!
Just like being hedro is a choice...However, When it comes to "LOVE" you have no choice

reply to post by JaxonRoberts


Im against limiting the right of any minority, so I support equal rights for homosexuals, but I don't support homosexuality itself. I don't care if you agree or disagree. I feel a person should be able to enter a marriage or a union with whom they please and to share there benefits with whom they please, it should be a right. I don't however accept there lifestyle whether its from birth or a choice. Male on male relationships and acts turn me off, I don't wanna see it, I don't wanna hear about it and more than anything else I don't want to be the object of attention from them.

As for friends? as in going to the movies or out to dinner or just hanging out I no longer have any homosexual friends. Not because of how I feel but more based on there own actions. Its difficult to be friends with some one that will not respect others boundaries. It is also difficult to have friendships with people that appear to me or have mental issues as all homosexuals that I have ever known seem to have. Its not just the ones I have known personally, have you ever seen a group of homosexuals in public? "[MALES] ?? They are usually very loud and sometimes rude and there just a flamin all over the place singing and dancing [not that there is anything wrong with it] But really It's rare to see woman straight or otherwise acting like fools in public with the safety in numbers that emboldens them to act all gay for all to bear witness for all that may see. This is uncomfortable.

Now Im not the type to avoid anyone, so when the elevator opens and inside are 6 male homosexuals Im the type to walk in and greet them.....Ladies with a grin. Usually one will ask for a smoke and I will oblige, and often I might be asked if I'm family witch I will reply no and that I know exactly what I like and want, generally speaking there bark is worst than there bite...It can be intimidating for other straight males to inter that elevator.

But this is how I see it.....Why the act in public? Why act out so flamboyant? When ya all are scaring all the straight guys?

I have had gay friends name Marc, and Jerri We were friends, but I always felt like they wanted to hump my leg, and this sexual attraction was not shared and it just made it more and more uncomfortable to be friends.

But I will always support them towards there equal rights. Because they are different

Originally posted by slane69

Originally posted by Sinnthia
reply to post by neonitus

 

Not that I am gay but if you have any opinions against the way I was born in any way shape or form and you call yourself my friend, you are a liar.

Frankly I have something against the way we are all born,... into sin. Seeing as we are all in the same boat one way or another why can't we all be friends. How we choose to act on the sinful nature is where the rubber hits the road, whether adulterer, homosexual, or otherwise inclined. I am a born adulterer but I choose not to act upon my urges. Honestly to simply say it is the way I am and act upon my urges would be a cop-out.

If I see someone I care about doing something that I believe will eventually hurt them how can I continue to call myself a friend if I look the other way and simply ignore what they are doing to themselves.

Let me see if I am following you here.

You said "WE" are all born into sin. We are all sinners. Right?
Then you went on to say how you love your friends so much, you would actively try to help them from being sinful. Right?
Seems to me that if you admit that WE are all sinful, you need to get yourself PERFECT before you start telling other people how not to sin.

I am sure you mean well and have a good heart and all but it seems like if you entertain adulterous thoughts, you need to worry about that and not too much about whether or not a friend is gay.

reply to post by oliveoil

Being Gay IS a choice, Reason I know this is because you have the "CHOICE" not to be!!

No, you cannot choose your sexual orientation, it is impossible. I sure as hell did not choose to be straight.