Secession, our last viable solution to the Fascist/Socialist State?

Originally posted by sdcigarpig
I do not think that the states will go for Secession, but I do believe that if the polices coming out from the Federal government and the sheer arogance continues, we may be looking at another Civil war, where the citizens take up arms against its own government. Most people do not want to be part of an island, nor do they want a Federal Government that chooses to slander and ignore the people. What I find deplorable about this current adminstration is that they fail to address one of the most basic tenants of the Constitution: For the people to redress its grievences to their government.

Fair enough, understood...

But what many of you fail to recognize is we had to endure the same feelings of frustration. We ENDURED it and IT SUCKED. I did not agree with either war, I still do not...

The point is there are many things that the last president did that I disagreed with, that appeared arrogant, reckless and insane. Eight years of it...

So how is this country supposed to function or work if when the other half of the voter block gets in "power" the half that just had power does not want to accept it?

Thats a raw deal for those who waited their turn isn't it now?

I appears things are unbearable now that conservatives deem it as unbearable.

Whilst I thought it was pretty damn unbearable back in 2002

So why does your level of frustration trump mine?

Why are your concerns and judgement more valid and pressing than mine?

I want to know

reply to post by Janky Red


J R you know we are amassing to strike Iran now don't you?

What the hell, why not another war? I guess there are reports that the Taliban are in Iran training. What happened to the Al Queda? Oh, there use as a propaganda tool has been used up.

Now its the TALIBAN. Gotta banana to go with that?

Daily light and da wont go home. Taliban taliban give me that banana, the damn americans wont go home.


I think the Federal Reserve people need a raise. Oh, that is what the HC bill is all about.

Or is it to pay for the new IRS agents? Or how about the increase in the DHS? Or how about the expansion of FEMA?




Hell, we need a knew police force the size and strength of the US military right here at home!

[size=10]Fascism by any other

name would not

smell so sweet!

[edit on 3/27/2010 by endisnighe]

Originally posted by endisnighe
reply to post by Janky Red

 

Daily light and da wont go home. Taliban taliban give me that banana, the damn americans wont go home.

that good a?

Well if the SOB's want to go to another war, you my friend and all of us will find common ground, finally. You must admit we the jr. fascisti are pretty good at the war protests. In fact we had a sizable one here just this last weekend

. I will NOT stand for anymore war, just won't...

Imagine Tea Partiers and Pinkos marching hand in hand

Otherwise I am trying here

reply to post by endisnighe


Ah there's your problem, you petitioned the government to Address a grievance.

See, you have the right to petition to Redress a grievance. there is a big difference.

No wonder why the government was confused.

reply to post by whatukno


I didn't say I, and so what, I misused the redress and address.

Are you the new language NAZI?


Thanks for using one of my comments as your signature. It shows class and courage that you can admit to resembling Stalin.

reply to post by endisnighe


I am just saying that, it might have been the problem. I mean you have every constitutional right to petition the government for the redress of grievances, but I don't think that the government has any obligation to oblige a petition to address a grievance. Were you expecting a speech?

Wait, is that the problem? You didn't get a politician to speak at your event? I mean if that's the issue, maybe secession isn't needed after all. I mean we don't have to go over the deep end because you didn't get someone lined up for your keystone address. I hear Palin will speak at an event if you pay her enough.

[edit on 3/27/2010 by whatukno]

reply to post by whatukno


What, I did not hear you over the screaming throng of dying people at your feet Stalin?

Can you say it again, Mao, cannot hear you over the tanks running over disodents.


Still cannot hear you Hitler, maybe turn down the gas ovens.

Originally posted by endisnighe
Hey, I just looked at the thread. You misspelled secede or I am sure I would have found it on search.

yep ur right
it was mis-spelled
i was typing fast and my spell checker
changed it to succeed instead of secede.
And I didn't proof it before posting, my bad.
I'll try to do better next time.

Now if my spell checker just had an AI built in
to know what I was talking about, it would have
corrected the spelling to the right context.
lmap ..... dumb computer .... hahahaha

reply to post by endisnighe


Boy, you don't know history at ALL do you?

Good luck with your secession.

reply to post by whatukno


As of right now, wuk, you will be the only one on ATS I have on ignore.

You are the worst kind of troll, an intelligent one. One that does not even know they are evil. Have you ever had a psychological evaluation. Have you been turned down to go into the military maybe.

You have a TWISTED morality about you. You will fit in well in government. It will be sad to find out though that someone emails your opponents, your place here. I guess it will do ATS good though, just not you. I am glad I copy the cache locations of things.

Like I said, I hope you well in your pursuit of office. But once about a half dozen of your true feeling are released, I doubt you would have a snowball's chance in hell of winning.

Thanks again for showing EVERYONE your true purpose here on the site.

It has been enlightening to see inside the mind of a psychopath.

[edit on 3/27/2010 by endisnighe]

reply to post by mnemeth1


I'm happy to see at least a few here that agree with me that the far right is complete Anarchy, although many self-described anarchist of today are really just childish statists and socialist rebels.

My only problem with the ideals of anarchism is it's (in my opinion) hatred for religion. I agree that religion has caused a lot of problems throughout history, and has probably killed more people than any other institution, but the hatred I see shown toward belief in God sorta turns me off.

I also am deeply turned off by the lack of belief in private property rights.

I guess if I had to choose, and it wasn't the cool thing to say.. I'm paleo libertarian. I do see some use of the state as a plus.. but under tight limitations that cannot be surpassed.

In todays world, I don't think complete anarchy is a viable option.

Thanks again for pointing out, what at least we can agree on, as Anarchism is a far right idea. Complete state to no state..


EDITED TO SAY: Sorry I got off topic with the post OP, I am enjoying the thread, thanks .

I could see the United States breaking into several different territories, but not until things got a lot worse.. and then it would surly get a lot worse from there, until it got better.

[edit on 27-3-2010 by Thoreau1]

reply to post by Thoreau1


No problem off topic, like I said in the OP.

Observations, critiques, bashing and any other trolling allowed. This is ripe with possibilities.

Just that wuk and I have been butting heads since I got here and I am fed up with his crap.

Thanks for commenting.

reply to post by endisnighe


Aww don't get mad sweetheart! If you can't debate your point. How good is that point to begin with? I mean, I disagree with your idea of secession, I think it's about the dumbest idea in the world. But your choice instead of actually debating the issue is to ignore me? Well, that doesn't prove your side well at all.

Originally posted by whatukno
reply to post by endisnighe

 

Aww don't get mad sweetheart! If you can't debate your point. How good is that point to begin with? I mean, I disagree with your idea of secession, I think it's about the dumbest idea in the world. But your choice instead of actually debating the issue is to ignore me? Well, that doesn't prove your side well at all.

Wuk is right about the ignore button End, no point in ignoring him if you truly believe secession is the best strategy in controlling an out of control federal government, then debate the man, and don't let his barbs and quips upset you. If secession is the answer, then there must not only be a compelling reason as to why it is the answer, but a compelling strategy as to how such a process would be achieved.

It appears that the SCOTUS has ruled on the issue of an individual states right to secede and have ruled it is not a Constitutional right to unilaterally secede from the union, but apparently, in the form of dicta, commented that the right for several states to secede and revolt against that federal government may be Constitutional. I have not read the case law in regards to this issue and can not speak intelligently to it, so there is no point in providing any links at this point, and I only bring it up to bring this debate back into a more reasonable area of discussion.

I will do some more research when I have the time, but would like to suggest that the most viable "legal" option, if secession is to be the answer, is that several states simultaneously secede and declare war against the federal government. I am not advocating this strategy, but suggesting that in terms of secession, civil war is probably the best bet, and if the whole movement is to be considered legal or not will depend on the success or failure of the rebellion.

Is secession truly our last viable solution to the Fascist/Socialist State? Make your case my brother, and rather than let the antics of that wascally woodpecker annoy you, understand his position, and debate the merits of your argument, not the person.

Alright, Ill play your hypothetical game...

1) Ok, assuming that for some weird reason, a bunch of states do secede without a long bloody civil war and establish a new country (or countries), Your new state probably won't be recognized officially as a country by the United States. Basically to the world, you are a rogue state at best, and unrecognized at worst. You have an upstart government, no world credit rating, no currency, no recognized shipping, no laws. Solutions?

2) No military, what are you going to do about defending yourselves against an outside invading force? Remember, the US military won't be there at all. All tanks plains, equipment every single thing that was the US military would be removed from your new country.

3) Boarders, well you got your country, what do you do about immigration?

4) From talking to you, you aren't too big on a central government, so is everyone on their own as far as services? How to you fund even a small central government?

5) What rights do the people have? What is illegal? How do you enforce the laws of your new country? What do you do with people that break any laws you may have?

I'll have more questions if you decide to answer these.

reply to post by whatukno


Checkmate! Great points. I doubt you will get any viable response to 2 or more points.
My prior post illustrated the pitfalls and garnered zero reply. Just more fife blowing, empty quotes, mindless references to Stalin and chest pounding.

Perhaps he is sleeping it off.

I would generally never question one's sanity
but it has come to the point that I must ask.

Are you folks who talk secession really this
paranoid and deluded? It is always the same
people, writing the same complaint, about the
same self percieved injustice.

Some people (endisnighe), just confuse the
hell out of me. You cry about the end of true
meaning and basis for our Republic but you
have no respect for the voting process.

I know everyone will laugh at such a corny and
outdated, overrated, and "meaningless" action;
but it is the most coveted action for self determination
there is.

Before anyone says that your vote does not
count because the bigwigs and corporations
decide who is too become our President just
remember this. We as Americans gave them this
control by our apathy and lack of concern.

People rant and cry that their government does
not listen to them when they refuse to accept
the decision of the voters of this country. That
is hypocritical and childish to the extreme.

I have to ask how many of these so called Patriots
and Tea Party activists voted. Probably very few.
I know this is long winded and rambling but all you
seccessionists are really starting to irritate the
hell out of me.

If you did not vote then shut up. You had the time
and responsibility to your country and you refused
that. If you did vote that means you respect the
"Democratic Process" and understand in two years
you have your shot.

reply to post by whatukno


Good post.

I asked similar questions all the time to seccesionist. I think even to End( but may have been someone else) I think their answer to the currency problem was that they would just create their own...he said it is simple

Most of these seccessionist and revolutionaries are very very simplistic thinkers...they don't think things through and they see everything as very very simple.

I think they honestly think they will secede by using hunting rifles and beat back the entire US military with just that.

The only way they will ever realize this is not possible is for them to try it...like this guy suggested...a bunch of misguided citizens all moving to one state and trying to secede. This will be the only way these internet revolutionaries will see that it is impossible to do...they need to see an example because their simplistic minds can't imagine it in any other way then the simple scenario they have created in their minds. Sadly it will end in a lot of death and destruction on American soil...but that seems to be what they want anyway.

I see the internet gang has shown up.

Carry on.

reply to post by endisnighe


And I see that as usual, when we start to question your "plans"...just like so many other revolutionaries on here...you shut down and stop discussing.

You would love a whole message board of only people that agree with you...wouldn't you?

Is that how you wish to make your new "country"...everyone think the exact same way? I cringe to think what you would do to those in your "state" that may think seccession isn't a great idea....execution for dissenting thought???

If you are confident that your way is so great...then defend your position. Don't just run and cry when someone challenges you.