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Secession, our last viable solution to the Fascist/Socialist State?

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posted on Mar, 26 2010 @ 01:28 PM
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We have tried everything else, what else is there?



I have been reading about different list of grievance groups this past fall. Groups like the Continental Congress. The Income Tax protesters.

They would set up a meeting with government officials and the gov officials do not show.

One was set up for the government to prove to the people, that the Income Tax is lawful and Constitutional. They had former IRS agents and commissioner on the side of the protesters.

Guess what, no show.

So, we all know the Dem/Repub paradigm, Two Headed demon from hell will never allow a third party choice, and will never give up the power/rights they have taken from us.

What other viable solution is there?

The government and other control freaks out there will say that is illegal(not unlawful) and they will starve out the state. We have had members here say they will kill us by starving us out. That attitude is the government. See how they create individuals like this. NO ONE is allowed to do anything differently. I find it appalling and abhorrent. This is the attitude that leads to despotic governments like the ones under Mao, Stalin, Hitler, Pol Pot, Castro etc etc etc.

Who will be our tyrant?

I will make a prediction. If one state would do it, almost 2/3 would follow. The fed of course do everything in their power to stop it, and THEN the rest would follow. Seeing that our leaders do NOT want choice or freedom, they want CONTROL. Just as any other tyrannical government that has come before.

The free staters had the idea already set up. People that believe the system is broken and the fed gov is out of control, would just need to move to one state. It is a valid option, and to me it is probably the last civil one left to us.

Just to let you know, it would not be like the last time. Communication is almost instantaneous now. It would not end the same way. People know history and they will not allow another despot move happen. In my opinion.

Observations, critiques, bashing and any other trolling allowed. This is ripe with possibilities.

[edit on 3/26/2010 by endisnighe]




posted on Mar, 26 2010 @ 01:33 PM
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I think it will come to that.

The federal government will not give up its power.

The federal courts will reject any 10th amendment claims by the states.

The federal congress is obviously criminal and will continue to reject its constitutional limitations.

The federal executive branch will continue consolidating power and enslaving the people.

I think it will get to the point where the states eventually reject the feds. I think that point will come after the currency is destroyed and they start implementing price controls and total enslavement.



posted on Mar, 26 2010 @ 01:37 PM
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I think that secession is inevitable. The people in America are now waking up, and are seeing things how they really are for the first time. They are learning to think independently, instead of being zombies, and doing what the gov't tells them to do.

Hopefully we will restore America to her libertarian roots soon, before a police state is put into place.



posted on Mar, 26 2010 @ 01:44 PM
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From the wiki:



Fascism, pronounced /ˈfæʃɪzəm/, is a radical and authoritarian nationalist political ideology

Fascists seek to organize a nation on corporatist perspectives; values; and systems such as the political system and the economy.

Scholars generally consider fascism to be on the far right of the conventional left-right political spectrum. although some scholars claim that fascism has been influenced by both the left and the right.

Fascists believe that a nation is an organic community that requires strong leadership, collective identity, and the will and ability to commit violence and wage war in order to keep the nation strong.
They identify violence and war as actions that create national regeneration, spirit and vitality. They claim that culture is created by collective national society and its state, that cultural ideas are what give individuals identity, and thus rejects individualism.

In viewing the nation as an integrated collective community, they claim that pluralism is a dysfunctional aspect of society, and justify a totalitarian state as a means to represent the nation in its entirety. They advocate the creation of a single-party state.
Fascist governments forbid and suppress openness and opposition to the fascist state and the fascist movement. Fascists reject and resist autonomy of cultural or ethnic groups who are not considered part of the fascists' nation and who refuse to assimilate or are unable to be assimilated. They consider attempts to create such autonomy as an affront and threat to the nation.



Just figured I would toss in a bit of fact to this thread..

ok, enjoy.



posted on Mar, 26 2010 @ 01:56 PM
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reply to post by SaturnFX
 


Based on your definition, we already are a fascist state.

Personally, I think each and every state should be it's own "union" of sorts. This little experiment called democracy isn't working. And it isn't going to work either, at least not on the scale that we are trying to make it work on.

Whatever the Federal government is trying to do to help my state out, it's nothing that my state can't do for itself. Screw the federal govt. They're worthless.



Peace



posted on Mar, 26 2010 @ 02:02 PM
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reply to post by mnemeth1
 


Agreed with everything you stated wholeheartedly.

Hey, thanks by the way for that video.

Yeah, I think the price controls are right around the corner. I still do not know how they are controlling prices now.

Thanks for the comment.



posted on Mar, 26 2010 @ 02:06 PM
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Originally posted by Taupin Desciple
Personally, I think each and every state should be it's own "union" of sorts. This little experiment called democracy isn't working. And it isn't going to work either, at least not on the scale that we are trying to make it work on.


1) its a republic, not a democracy
2) thats not a answer...my town is not like my county...my county is not like my state...shall we start establishing mini fiefdoms all around the continent? Devolution into eventual tiny depotism styled tribes will certainly destroy the benefits of our society...and yes, there are still benefits for grand works together. No single company is going to build giant space shuttles for science to benefit all people...no single company is going to maintain road networks, or patrol the country, etc..
3) I do not own Wiki...the definition is just...the definition, not mine, or yours..just the established one.



posted on Mar, 26 2010 @ 02:10 PM
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reply to post by ReVoLuTiOn76
 


Thanks for the comment and here is a gif you may like. If you want to copy and use go for it.




reply to post by SaturnFX
 


Thanks for the definition, it reiterates my title.

I was going to use fascist/socialist, but then we would had a side argument that the two systems cannot exist at the same time.

Well if they cannot, I wonder how it exists today in our country.



posted on Mar, 26 2010 @ 02:13 PM
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reply to post by SaturnFX
 


The system of social control in this country is socialism.

The system of economic control is fascism.

Get it, GOOD! Quit derailing the thread on that point.



posted on Mar, 26 2010 @ 02:16 PM
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reply to post by SaturnFX
 


Fascism is a leftist ideology.

It encompasses state control and the worship of the state.

This is diametrically opposed to the right, which favors free markets and the elimination of state intrusion. To claim fascism is some sort of "right wing" view point is like claiming communism is some sort of right wing view point.

Left and Right as defined by total state (totalitarian dictatorship) to no state (anarchy), fascism falls far to the left end of the spectrum.


VC reader Steven Hamori thinks that Leiter (like many contemporary commentators and perhaps the editors of the American Heritage Dictionary as well) is confused about the definition of fascism, and misinterprets the oft-repeated Mussolini/Gentile quote that “Fascism should more appropriately be called corporatism because it is a merger of state and corporate power.” Hamori writes

[The quote] has circulated in the left wing blogshere for as long as I can recall… I believe it to be a real one too although some credit it to Giovanni Gentile (Mussolini allegedly took credit for it while not originally uttering it).[According to Wikipedia:]“Gentile, described both by himself and Mussolini as ‘the philosopher of Fascism’, was the ghostwriter of ‘A Doctrine of Fascism’ which, signed by Benito Mussolini, described Fascism in the Italian Encyclopedia (which was edited by Gentile).”

The problem is that a ‘corporate’ in Italian of the period is not a business organization. A corporate is a production planning board made up of workers, owners, and others involved in production advocated by the syndicalist school of socialism. Their beloved quote is actually Mussolini (or maybe Gentile) making a connection between fascism and socialism . . .

[Again, Wikipedia]“Historically, corporatism or corporative (Italian corporativismo) is a political system in which legislative power is given to corporations that represent economic, industrial and professional groups.”

“Under Fascism in Italy, business owners, employees, trades-people, professionals, and other economic classes were organized into 22 guilds, or associations, known as “corporations” according to their industries, and these groups were given representation in a legislative body known as the Camera dei Fasci e delle Corporazioni.”

Hamori concludes:

I doubt Leiter knows anything about the history of fascism. Intellectually, the progressive left has a lot more in common with it than the ‘libertarian right’ (the real liberals). . . . If anyone advocates a merging of ‘business corporate’ and state it is the regulation happy / anti competition left. The average ‘right winger’ says let an uncompetitive business fail.



posted on Mar, 26 2010 @ 02:19 PM
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reply to post by mnemeth1
 


Thanks, I always thought that when these people start saying it is a right thing, it was a way to keep people from realizing the left has ALL the tyrants.

Thanks for clarifying.



posted on Mar, 26 2010 @ 02:26 PM
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Originally posted by ReVoLuTiOn76
I think that secession is inevitable. The people in America are now waking up, and are seeing things how they really are for the first time. They are learning to think independently, instead of being zombies, and doing what the gov't tells them to do.

Hopefully we will restore America to her libertarian roots soon, before a police state is put into place.


I would love to agree with you on this one. But despite the fact that several people can see what is going on with the big picture, there are still many many more who repeat what they're told on the TV and cannot see past this grand delusion/illusion. Take Texas as a prime example, most texans still believe G.W. was one of the best presidents we've ever had who kept us safe from the terrorists etc. etc. While most of the country feels the exact opposite about him. I am not sure if its just because he's from Texas, or they really see things that way. But it seems to me thats for every single person that has "denied ignorance" so to speak, there's ten times that number who almost embrace it. I'm not sure what it would take or if its even possible for the majority of people to rebel against the government.



posted on Mar, 26 2010 @ 02:27 PM
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Originally posted by endisnighe
reply to post by mnemeth1
 


Thanks, I always thought that when these people start saying it is a right thing, it was a way to keep people from realizing the left has ALL the tyrants.

Thanks for clarifying.


Its pretty simple.

All the mass killing ever conducted on the face of this earth has been at the hands of government.

Its pre-ordained that the left has all the tyrants.

Communists killed 100 million through starvation alone last century. The wars between communist and fascist states during the past century were all started by leftists.

In fact, the only major war in modern history that was started by a so-called conservative is the Gulf War.

Of course, under Bush's tutelage, government expanded to three times its size, so I would hardly call him a conservative.



posted on Mar, 26 2010 @ 02:27 PM
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Originally posted by endisnighe

We have tried everything else, what else is there?



Sure gonna miss ya:


Buh-bye!



posted on Mar, 26 2010 @ 02:32 PM
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reply to post by kinda kurious
 


What state you live in?

I might just be running for GUVNER.




posted on Mar, 26 2010 @ 02:36 PM
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reply to post by ghostsoldier78
 


That is why I brought up this thread, do we need to follow the free staters idea.

I like their Libertarian component, but it is also left leaning. They want everyone to pool money together but have the Libertarian ideals on the social aspect alone, not the economic. That still leads to tyranny.Alright, I was wrong. Sorry freestaters. Damn, I am getting things messed up. Must have mistaken the political of Vermont with the free staters.


Just trying to show that we do have power if we could move to a state and push the curve so to speak. Think small. Get in where we can make a difference.

I believe that is why the free staters chose New Hampshire.

Alright, the endisnighe was wrong. Sorry free staters, I hope you guys need a hardworking freedom lover.

[edit on 3/26/2010 by endisnighe]



posted on Mar, 26 2010 @ 02:39 PM
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Originally posted by endisnighe
reply to post by ghostsoldier78
 


That is why I brought up this thread, do we need to follow the free staters idea.

I like their Libertarian component, but it is also left leaning. They want everyone to pool money together but have the Libertarian ideals on the social aspect alone, not the economic. That still leads to tyranny.

Just trying to show that we do have power if we could move to a state and push the curve so to speak. Think small. Get in where we can make a difference.

I believe that is why the free staters chose Vermont.


Really?

Every free-state web site and rally I've looked at is totally anti-government.

Where are you getting this from?

Also, the free state project is New Hampshire.




[edit on 26-3-2010 by mnemeth1]



posted on Mar, 26 2010 @ 02:40 PM
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freestateproject.org...

The Free State Project is an agreement among 20,000 pro-liberty activists to move to New Hampshire, where they will exert the fullest practical effort toward the creation of a society in which the maximum role of government is the protection of life, liberty, and property. The success of the Project would likely entail reductions in taxation and regulation, reforms at all levels of government, to expand individual rights and free markets, and a restoration of constitutional federalism, demonstrating the benefits of liberty to the rest of the nation and the world.

[edit on 26-3-2010 by mnemeth1]



posted on Mar, 26 2010 @ 02:46 PM
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reply to post by mnemeth1
 


Okay, I must be getting too much information this past 6 months. Getting my wires crossed. I will scrub my comments and see where I am getting this miscombobulated.

Hell, if they are pro economic freedom, what the hell am I still doing in my state?

Will be back after some googling.



posted on Mar, 26 2010 @ 03:19 PM
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There isn't going to be any secession, there aren't any people "waking up" on a grand scale and threatening revolt. Fact is, the United States can go three way. It has the possibility of turning Fascist, especially due to people of the US being undeniably scared of even the term "Socialism". The United States CAN embrace Socialism (it hasn't yet, so don't go making sarcastic remarks), or it will enter a complete economic downfall and the United States will fall.



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