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Secession, our last viable solution to the Fascist/Socialist State?

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posted on Mar, 27 2010 @ 01:03 PM
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reply to post by endisnighe
 


My greatest fear is that, if the United States were to split up, it would do so along the lines of the current political paradigm. The country would effectively be divided in two, with the Democrats ruling one half and the Republicans ruling over the other.



That's no way to divide a country!

It might placate a certain portion of the country for a time but, in the end, we will all come to the realization that there really IS no difference between the two parties and that they are just two different brand names for fascism.

If the country were to split up, I would hope it was done in accordance with the TRUE principals of federalism, with each state allowed to go it's own way to develop it's own system of government that best suits the people of that particular state.

Perhaps the best route would be to put the federal government back into it's place of providing for the common defence of the states against foreign aggression and regulating commerce between the states. THAT AND NOTHING ELES AT ALL!





[edit on 3/27/10 by FortAnthem]




posted on Mar, 27 2010 @ 01:22 PM
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reply to post by OutKast Searcher
 


Sorry, I will and do discuss things with both sides of the Dem/Repub paradigm. If they debate. If the first thing they do is say, is post a camper and asta la vista baby. Or attempt to say I am a terrorist, or just try to impart an emotional response from me, I will not engage them.

Sorry, you are about the only one of the 3 that has actually tried to discuss civilly. But still, you and your cohorts begin patting each other on the back, derail the discussion, attack the OP instead of bringing up valid and reasonable debate responses.

I have seen it and others have seen it. Sorry, I will not engage anymore with internet gangs.

So, piss off. Unless of course you can debate proper. I will not listen to wuk any longer because he is a complete troll. Seen it in about 50 threads so far. I am amazed he is even allowed to still be here. I have seen 3 people so far quit posting because of him. Frell him and other internet trolls.



posted on Mar, 27 2010 @ 01:28 PM
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reply to post by FortAnthem
 


Do you notice the layout of that map. The people in the center of the country, the ones that are being hardest hit by the two coasts. I believe though that you might just as well throw that map out though.

Add Massachusetts, Minnesota, Wisconsin and several other states to the red. The things going on now in the Federal land known as the UNITED STATES does not have jurisdiction in the continental land of the United States of America.

They rule by UCC not by the Constitution any longer. They are tyrants, giving our labor to the corporate Federal Reserve and the corporate IRS. Our money is no longer our money.

I hope it does not come to secession, but it seems they do not care what anyone thinks anymore.

Yes, troubling times indeed FA.

Thanks for the comment.



posted on Mar, 28 2010 @ 11:15 PM
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reply to post by endisnighe
 


My vote is on secession from the Union. I think that we should do away with the Constitution, seeing how Alexander Hamilton had to use nothing but propaganda and shady tactics to get it ratified, and revive the Articles of Confederation for the 21st century.

It would be glorious to see the States regain their Sovereignty.

If our Forefathers knew what the Constitution was going to do as far as consolidating the absolute authority of the Federal Government, my guess would be that Alexander Hamilton and his cronies would have been hung.

The information one user posted about New Hampshire is interesting. I am definitely curious to check it out.



posted on Mar, 28 2010 @ 11:18 PM
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reply to post by FortAnthem
 


we have a problem though.

Most people do not know the difference between federalism, nationalism, republics, or democracies.

Some of the most trivial, political knowledge is not taught to the majority of Americans. Most do not even understand the notion of sovereignty.



posted on Mar, 28 2010 @ 11:23 PM
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In the state I live in (NC) Secession is against the State Constitution.



Sec. 4. Secession prohibited.

This State shall ever remain a member of the American Union; the people thereof are part of the American nation; there is no right on the part of this State to secede; and all attempts, from whatever source or upon whatever pretext, to dissolve this Union or to sever this Nation, shall be resisted with the whole power of the State.


Read it how you will...there will be no secession of the state I am in. Pretty mighty words used to declare this absolute anti secession clause.



posted on Mar, 29 2010 @ 12:07 AM
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reply to post by endisnighe
 


This Speech is Profecy coming from Robert Welch 52 Years Ago........... . " There " Plan for the Final Corporate Takeover Of The United States Of America . Have these 10 Points not come to pass as mentioned today ?





www.youtube.com...



posted on Mar, 29 2010 @ 01:38 AM
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Thanks everyone for your comments and have looked at all given info.

Looks like civil war if we try this.

That being said, at what time in history has such an overpowering federal government, that has become this controlling, this corrupt, has NOT turned on its own citizens.

There is no time in history.

Ask yourselves this question-

IN CONGRESS, JULY 4, 1776
The unanimous Declaration of the thirteen united States of America

When in the Course of human events it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. — That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, — That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security. — Such has been the patient sufferance of these Colonies; and such is now the necessity which constrains them to alter their former Systems of Government. The history of the present King of Great Britain is a history of repeated injuries and usurpations, all having in direct object the establishment of an absolute Tyranny over these States. To prove this, let Facts be submitted to a candid world.

He has refused his Assent to Laws, the most wholesome and necessary for the public good.

He has forbidden his Governors to pass Laws of immediate and pressing importance, unless suspended in their operation till his Assent should be obtained; and when so suspended, he has utterly neglected to attend to them.

He has refused to pass other Laws for the accommodation of large districts of people, unless those people would relinquish the right of Representation in the Legislature, a right inestimable to them and formidable to tyrants only.

He has called together legislative bodies at places unusual, uncomfortable, and distant from the depository of their Public Records, for the sole purpose of fatiguing them into compliance with his measures.

He has dissolved Representative Houses repeatedly, for opposing with manly firmness his invasions on the rights of the people.

He has refused for a long time, after such dissolutions, to cause others to be elected, whereby the Legislative Powers, incapable of Annihilation, have returned to the People at large for their exercise; the State remaining in the mean time exposed to all the dangers of invasion from without, and convulsions within.

He has endeavoured to prevent the population of these States; for that purpose obstructing the Laws for Naturalization of Foreigners; refusing to pass others to encourage their migrations hither, and raising the conditions of new Appropriations of Lands.

He has obstructed the Administration of Justice by refusing his Assent to Laws for establishing Judiciary Powers.

He has made Judges dependent on his Will alone for the tenure of their offices, and the amount and payment of their salaries.

He has erected a multitude of New Offices, and sent hither swarms of Officers to harass our people and eat out their substance.

He has kept among us, in times of peace, Standing Armies without the Consent of our legislatures.

He has affected to render the Military independent of and superior to the Civil Power.

He has combined with others to subject us to a jurisdiction foreign to our constitution, and unacknowledged by our laws; giving his Assent to their Acts of pretended Legislation:

For quartering large bodies of armed troops among us:

For protecting them, by a mock Trial from punishment for any Murders which they should commit on the Inhabitants of these States:

For cutting off our Trade with all parts of the world:

For imposing Taxes on us without our Consent:

For depriving us in many cases, of the benefit of Trial by Jury:

For transporting us beyond Seas to be tried for pretended offences:

For abolishing the free System of English Laws in a neighbouring Province, establishing therein an Arbitrary government, and enlarging its Boundaries so as to render it at once an example and fit instrument for introducing the same absolute rule into these Colonies

For taking away our Charters, abolishing our most valuable Laws and altering fundamentally the Forms of our Governments:

For suspending our own Legislatures, and declaring themselves invested with power to legislate for us in all cases whatsoever.

He has abdicated Government here, by declaring us out of his Protection and waging War against us.

He has plundered our seas, ravaged our coasts, burnt our towns, and destroyed the lives of our people.

He is at this time transporting large Armies of foreign Mercenaries to compleat the works of death, desolation, and tyranny, already begun with circumstances of Cruelty & Perfidy scarcely paralleled in the most barbarous ages, and totally unworthy the Head of a civilized nation.

He has constrained our fellow Citizens taken Captive on the high Seas to bear Arms against their Country, to become the executioners of their friends and Brethren, or to fall themselves by their Hands.

He has excited domestic insurrections amongst us, and has endeavoured to bring on the inhabitants of our frontiers, the merciless Indian Savages whose known rule of warfare, is an undistinguished destruction of all ages, sexes and conditions.

In every stage of these Oppressions We have Petitioned for Redress in the most humble terms: Our repeated Petitions have been answered only by repeated injury. A Prince, whose character is thus marked by every act which may define a Tyrant, is unfit to be the ruler of a free people.

Nor have We been wanting in attentions to our British brethren. We have warned them from time to time of attempts by their legislature to extend an unwarrantable jurisdiction over us. We have reminded them of the circumstances of our emigration and settlement here. We have appealed to their native justice and magnanimity, and we have conjured them by the ties of our common kindred to disavow these usurpations, which would inevitably interrupt our connections and correspondence. They too have been deaf to the voice of justice and of consanguinity. We must, therefore, acquiesce in the necessity, which denounces our Separation, and hold them, as we hold the rest of mankind, Enemies in War, in Peace Friends.

We, therefore, the Representatives of the united States of America, in General Congress, Assembled, appealing to the Supreme Judge of the world for the rectitude of our intentions, do, in the Name, and by Authority of the good People of these Colonies, solemnly publish and declare, That these united Colonies are, and of Right ought to be Free and Independent States, that they are Absolved from all Allegiance to the British Crown, and that all political connection between them and the State of Great Britain, is and ought to be totally dissolved; and that as Free and Independent States, they have full Power to levy War, conclude Peace, contract Alliances, establish Commerce, and to do all other Acts and Things which Independent States may of right do. — And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of Divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our Lives, our Fortunes, and our sacred Honor.


Do you not see the correlation between then and now?




posted on Mar, 29 2010 @ 01:41 AM
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reply to post by endisnighe
 


Here we go again! Pull out the declaration of independence, be all patriotic, even though you want to spit on the constitution and secede from the union.

I hope the irony isn't lost on everyone.



posted on Mar, 29 2010 @ 02:44 AM
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Is there someone there?

I see a name on MY ATS page, but there is no one there.

Oh, must be a ghost of Stalin again. Hopefully he does not want to starve out a few million more people to make room for the elite's new castles.




The Constitution will be restored.

[edit on 3/29/2010 by endisnighe]



posted on Mar, 29 2010 @ 02:58 AM
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Originally posted by endisnighe
Is there someone there?

I see a name on MY ATS page, but there is no one there.

Oh, must be a ghost of Stalin again. Hopefully he does not want to starve out a few million more people to make room for the elite's new castles.




The Constitution will be restored.

[edit on 3/29/2010 by endisnighe]


And Dick Army shall lead the way!!!



posted on Mar, 29 2010 @ 02:59 AM
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reply to post by endisnighe
 


How are you going to possibly do that when we have the constitution and you are planing on secession? You will need your own constitution. And I can just imagine what that will look like.



posted on Mar, 29 2010 @ 04:48 PM
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Originally posted by whatukno
reply to post by endisnighe
 


Here we go again! Pull out the declaration of independence, be all patriotic, even though you want to spit on the constitution and secede from the union.

I hope the irony isn't lost on everyone.


Patriotism? If you hadn't noticed, there is a very specific part in the Declaration that says:


That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government...


"Patriotism" is not the blind protection of corruption.

The roots of Americans in this "Country" are that of a Confederacy, defending the Sovereignty of the States is "patriotic."



posted on Apr, 3 2010 @ 05:12 PM
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I support My state of Michigan has our attorney General suing the federal goverment. and i gotta say alot of Michiganders are behind this aswell.If the feds dont back off The Republic of Michigan declares independence and war if it comes to that...



posted on Apr, 3 2010 @ 06:43 PM
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reply to post by dalan.
 


I see, so you subscribe to the Confederate States of America.

I am afraid to tell you, y'all lost the civil war.

I don't quite get this "the south will rise again!" garbage. To me, this seems like the same old plan.




posted on Apr, 3 2010 @ 07:00 PM
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I support moves toward secession, though I hope it doesn't come to that.

Things may be very different this time, what with the NET and all, and Dixie was about States Rights...

Watch Bob Dylan's version of Dixie... and tell me if you feel a little hope..and perhaps a supressed tear in the corner of your eye

Dixie

[edit on 3-4-2010 by seataka]



posted on Apr, 3 2010 @ 08:26 PM
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reply to post by endisnighe
 


It does look like civil war if you do this. I have laid out time and time before why that is a loosing course of action for you. A war will end in your utter and complete destruction and a massive increase in federalism once you inevitably loose the war.

Remember Radical Reconstruction? Yes, it will be that all over again.

The other question I have for you my good man is what on earth makes you think you can actually bring together a large enough band of people in a single state in order to actually build the voting bloc to actually leave the union? Even Wyoming, the least populated state still has over half a million people.

There are bad ideas then there is this. The biggest consolation I have in this however is that you all are armchair revolutionaries playing with tin soldiers in your minds. Thank god the evil you could cause with these horribly misguided ideas will not come to pass.



posted on Apr, 6 2010 @ 01:05 AM
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Originally posted by whatukno
reply to post by dalan.
 


I see, so you subscribe to the Confederate States of America.

I am afraid to tell you, y'all lost the civil war.

I don't quite get this "the south will rise again!" garbage. To me, this seems like the same old plan.


For some reason, you seem oddly hateful for no reason at all.


Man was born free, and he is everywhere in chains

-Jean Jacques Rousseau

If you do not like these ideas, then why do you come to this thread to rile yourself up? So you can talk down to people?



posted on Apr, 6 2010 @ 02:00 AM
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reply to post by dalan.
 


Because I have seen this song and dance before. And I don't like it.

Basically these people are saying, if we can't have the United States, no one can.

I know that there are problems in our government, no one can deny that. But instead of working to fix these problems, some people want to cut and run or destroy the United States altogether.

How long do you suppose that it would be after a state decides to secede from the union before a foreign force descends on the state that decided from the union? Already I have read how some would even be glad to accept help from the United Nations bringing in peace keeping forces. Don't you see the problem?

Abraham Lincoln once said, A house divided against itself cannot stand, and ever since Obama took office, there have been people who are doing everything they possibly can to divide this nation, start an uprising and bring down everything that our founding fathers fought so hard to achieve.

Yes, again, there are problems, those problems can be fixed. You also have to remember, some just want to watch the world burn.



posted on Apr, 6 2010 @ 04:14 AM
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reply to post by whatukno
 


And I notice you use the worst president there ever was as your descriptive force.

Lincoln could of cared less about the reasons behind the secession. He only wanted to sustain the union, no matter what cost.

Well, lo and behold, it was the worst war in any history EVER.

But he maintained the EMPIRE did he not? So to the victor goes the HISTORY!

YEY YEY YEY YEY



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