Why are Atheists...Atheists?, page 7
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reply posted on 24-5-2008 @ 12:52 PM by Sunsetspawn
Originally posted by Bigwhammy
Albert Einsteins general relativity... demands that the universe has a beginning.

The second law of thermodynamics... also demands a beginning to the universe.

As predicted by theory, astronomer Edwin Hubble observed that the entire universe is expanding from a single point...


In that other thread you were somehow trying to conclude that because our laws of physics behave the way they do, the Christian God must exist the way the bible says.

Have you considered M theory?

I guess I'm saying that the bottom line is, no matter what laws of physics a created universe may be stuck with, I'm sure they will all point to their creation

Anyway, here's a video with an alternative to the "God said so" explanation.



The god of this age has blinded the minds of unbelievers, so that they cannot see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.


For those unfamiliar with scripture the "God of this age" Paul referred to is Satan. That doesn't mean we have to demonize every individual atheist. But it does say we have to realize their unbelief has a supernatural source. Which explains why the very clear evidence for God and his design is so easily ignored.

Okie dokie, this argument is the one that officially ends all rational discussion. If satan becomes your reason for any type of disagreement, you have not only taken this thread down an alternate route, but that route happens to be a dead end.

Atheism - Satan
Channelers and spiritualists - Satan
UFOs - Satan
Ghosts - Satan
Wiccans - Satan
Sucralose - Satan (and there I'd agree)

Considerer this quick and dirty scenario. The Large Hadron Collider in europe gives scientists more insight into the universe than ever before, perhaps even splitting the fabric of spacetime somehow revealing truths we couldn't have imagined. Maybe we're even contacted by vastly superior interdimensionals or we connect to the source itself. Now if this new information doesn't line up with exactly what you believe then there can only be one answer...

could it be.... hmmmmmmmmmmm



Satan!?!?

And as for what makes atheists atheists. Well, I'm sure that's something of a case by case basis. I like to think of myself as a For-All-Intents-And-Purposes Atheist. That basically means that I align myself with atheists because if there is a God (in that more traditional Judeo-Christian sense), It certainly wouldn't care whether or not we believed in It and is far more concerned with how we be behave. Anywho, perhaps I'll discuss more later, but I just received a call to play tennis, so good day to all.


reply posted on 24-5-2008 @ 12:56 PM by Benevolent Heretic
Originally posted by bled_eidol
I'm an atheist, but I do not deny that a God could exist. In the same way, the universe could be a bacteria in the urine sample of a holographic mastodon. I have no reason to believe either possibility.


That's exactly where I am. It could be that the world is really a "proton-like" speck, traveling around a nucleus of an "atom-like structure", size being infinite in both directions, with much larger beings existing in a larger universe... A bit like a flea on a mammoth... But I have no reason to believe that, either.

To answer the original question. Why are atheists atheists? I have no reason to believe the story I was told as a child is true. Same as Santa.

It's interesting that people who don't believe in aliens don't have a collective name. We don't call these people "alienators" or anything. People who don't believe in angels, fairies, Santa, the Easter Bunny and other "beings" aren't collectively called something...

But those who don't believe in God have been assigned a special name just for them. That's why I don't like the word atheist and rarely assign it to myself. I am just a person. There are things I believe and things I don't believe. What people call God is something I don't believe exists. I think it's just a story. Some people believe it's true. They can have a special name. To me, the default is unbelief.

I have discovered that MANY things my parents told me turned out not to be true. The story of where we came from and where we're going is just one of them.


reply posted on 24-5-2008 @ 01:00 PM by Pro-genetic

Click here for more information.



reply posted on 24-5-2008 @ 02:44 PM by MatrixProphet
reply to post by Cythraul


Thank you for your compliment on the OP. I am glad you heard what I was saying!

My applauds to everyone!!! This has been an unbelievably even tempered thread. My thanks!

I think that a sign of intelligence is to be able to discuss hot subjects without getting "our knickers in a twist" as someone on ATS says.

Someone asked me why Dolly Parton for quotes? Because sometimes the simplest quotes or the wisest statements made by someone who admits to not having much formal education makes more of an impression. We used to call it; horse sense!

Here is a quote that I feel belongs in this thread:

"The world is a kind of spiritual kindergarten where millions of bewildered infants are trying to spell God with the wrong blocks."
-Edwin Robinson


reply posted on 24-5-2008 @ 04:40 PM by Howie47
reply to post by MatrixProphet





When you experience something profound, often it is hard to put into words.


We all can suffer from contempt prior to investigation at times!


I just don't like the God Box. The reality of most - putting God into a tight box with a lid. And anything that does not fit their definition or into their equation regarding God, cannot be right in their eyes.






My experiences of finding God where all outside any religion! I'm not going to share my whole story, it is to long.
I was raised in a home that believe in God. But didn't practice anything.
Having an agnostic attitude toward their belief. I went right to Viet Nam
after high school. When I came back, I was one screwed up kid. Some of my superiors thought I had gone wacko. But since I was being let out soon. Put up with my pointed questions and disregard for any military
respect. I went to Calif. after the service to search for something among the, anti establishment cultures, that were blossoming at the time. But didn't any love, so went home. Couldn't stand my old life as home. As I was too distraught over my war experiences. I got so depressed about their not being any love in the world. That I was holding on to life by a thread. One day a stranger handed me a little red book, with a Bible verse on each page. That was enough to give we some hope, that at least God, (if he existed) loved me. So once again I left to find (something). With nothing more the a backpack, I hitchhiked around. Had many experiences and adventures. My little bit of hope and faith, begin to grow. As every once in awhile, God would do something undeniable to encourage me.
It has been many years, many highs and lows, but through it all, God is the only one who has always stuck with me. Except for the dog he gave me.
You could never convince me there isn't a personal God. He didn't make me rich, give me a family, or anything of this world. But his own
Son was treated the same in this world. So I think I am in pretty good company. Now I wouldn't trade my little faith for anything.

[edit on 24-5-2008 by Howie47]



reply posted on 24-5-2008 @ 05:46 PM by Bigwhammy
Originally posted by Sunsetspawn

n that other thread you were somehow trying to conclude that because our laws of physics behave the way they do, the Christian God must exist the way the bible says.

Have you considered M theory?


Ever heard the phrase grasping at straws? Multiple universe theories are a atheist joke. A desperate attempt to explain away the anthropic principal of cosmology that so strongly supports the belief in God that prominent atheists have actually converted due to the evidence.


What is one to make of all this? As with all scientific theories, we begin by asking for the evidence. So what is the empirical evidence for oscillating and parallel and multiple universes? Actually, there isn't any. As Weinberg admits, "These are very speculative ideas ... without any experimental support." Smolin is even more candid. He calls his ideas "a fantasy.... It is possible that all I have done here is cobble together a set of false clues that only seem to have something to do with each other.... There is every chance that these ideas will not succeed." I appreciate this candor, and I am reminded of that old Ptolemaic remedy for problematic data: "just add epicycles." Now we are in the realm of "just add universes."
D'Souza

Yes M theory is the atheist scientist last gasp in the face of overwhelming evidence for God. The prioncipal of Occams Razor that when offered many possible explanations the one that requires the least assumptions is the best.

All theories of multiple universes violate Occam's razor. These atheists invent a fantastically complicated set of circumstances to explain a single case when there is a much simpler, more obvious explanation right at hand. That our universe is designed for life because someone designed it that way. You don't need to make up the idea of a hundred billion universes that you know nothing about in order to account for the only universe you can possibly examine.


Okie dokie, this argument is the one that officially ends all rational discussion. If satan becomes your reason for any type of disagreement, you have not only taken this thread down an alternate route, but that route happens to be a dead end.



I apologize I didn't mean to imply that you could comprehend the Bible verses. Of course I would be in error to expect a materialist to be able to comprehend something that is spiritually discerned. If you had read my post that statement that was addressed to the Bible believing Christians. And it was never offered as a reason for disagreement only as the explanation for atheists blindness to the overwhelming and "obvious as the nose on your face" evidence for a creator.





[edit on 5/24/2008 by Bigwhammy]


reply posted on 24-5-2008 @ 05:47 PM by MatrixProphet
reply to post by capgrup


All I ask is for you to prove to me that god exists in an intelligent thought out case without reverting to the term "faith". Not exactly an easy thing to do.


You are exactly right! But it is too abstract to put into words in the way you want.

I have a relationship with God that goes beyond faith. Faith is too intangible. All I can tell you is that there can be situations where there can be no doubt in your mind that there is a presence that has intervened in your life.

An example:

I reached a helpless, demoralized state at one point in my life. I decided to kill myself. I knew that it was wrong as I would be leaving three children. But I felt that my life was beyond salvaging, and that they would be better off without me anyway.

I had a relationship of sorts with God but felt too insignificant and too wicked. So I had not prayed to him in years. As I was sobbing driving down a road, deciding how to do the deed, I sobbingly asked God to let me go. Let me die. I felt at the time that it was a great sin.

There was a beautiful lake (Lake Washington in Seattle). I was driving down this beautiful boulevard and decided to pull into a parking spot to walk out to the pier. It was very quiet and no-one was around.

I was sitting on this bench on the pier looking over the water, deciding how to end my life. When up walked a stranger, one who I had never seen before. He asked me if I owned the bench, laughingly. I thought; "Oh great, now this guy is going to harass me, maybe he will kill me and I will be off the hook!"

He said to me, "You don't want to live - do you? ...Well, God wants you to live, he does not want you to die." He said, "Look at the beauty here, he cares for that mother duck as he cares for the chicks (it was like out of a corny Hollywood movie with a mother and her chicks going by at that moment on the lake).

He talked to me for about 20 minutes, got me laughing, and then left, never to see him again. I never wanted to take my life again after this incident. I then had many other incidents after this one that kept building my confidence regarding the existence of a God.

It is easy to be skeptical, to rationalize this situation. But I want to add; it is not just the fact that a strange young man approached me, but the circumstances had the strangest feeling associated with it. I had just told God and begged him to let me go, and let me take my will, and my own life. Just minutes before! I must have been on the pier for no more than 10 minutes. It wasn't like I was sitting there sobbing. I had reached a calm state with a calm demeanor when he approached!

One of my posts earlier in this thread, I discussed what spiritual means to me (someone asked me to define it). This example fits aspects of what I was trying to say. There is a tremendous awareness that is attached to a divine experience. Not just the experience itself, although that in itself can be great. But the feeling that goes along with it, can be extraordinary.

I have had many incidents that would raise ones brows, and there have been eye witnesses, to some of them.


reply posted on 24-5-2008 @ 06:06 PM by Howie47
reply to post by chiS2000




Why are you so convinced that you're right, when the only evidence of your 'faith' is a book conveniently written by the followers of said faith?


Unbelievers tend to confuse "faith", with blind faith. If you saw all the miracles the slaves of Egypt where shown to encourage their faith. You wouldn't be putting down faith like it was nothing.
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