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Why are Atheists...Atheists?

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posted on May, 23 2008 @ 09:41 PM
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Posted by MatrixProphet;

Growing spiritually means to be willing to expand beyond ones limited thinking


Why were you even concerned with "Why is an Atheist an Atheist scenario of perceptions?
Seems you have already answered yourself.



and to experience life and its meanings in a different context, realizing that 2+2 does not = 4.



This becomes very confusing and quite redundant as a statement of factual belief systems, as far as I can construed, 2+2 does equal 4. Not unless my math teachers were lying to me all those years.
Sounds like something that Bigwhammy would use to authenticate that atheism is incorrect or a mental disorder.


Also, being willing to fail, to get up and to try again.


This is what life is all about, nothing spiritual or Divine in that statement, it is a fact of life if you lay down and give up, life's beat you. This is a veritable conclusion to the advent of nothing more than survival of the fittest or directions to the way of corrective thinking, nothing miraculous about being a normal problem solver, just different levels of us out there.


Beyond that, it is an unexplainable experience! It is easier to watch it take place in someones life, than it is to define it.


I don't know in what direction you are traveling with your ideas or identifications of what self experience or learned mistakes leaves after it has been done and is in the past. Either you learn from it or you are promised to repeat it. Without self acknowledgement for accountability and consequences of your/mine or anyone's actions is a prime candidate for the psychiatrists chair for being an individual that has lost their sensibility of reality and place in life.

I have said before, "There is no other human being that is held accountable for my actions and demises of my life as an adult."
At the beginning of this thread , you had said it was not an "Atheist" bashing thread, and yet you have had your own conclusions of what is what and are defining them here.
My how things have changed up to this point.




posted on May, 23 2008 @ 09:43 PM
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reply to post by kyred
 


I really appreciated your ability to be intimate with us. Thank you! I believe that the ethereal or paranormal experiences involve a spirit realm that is not akin to ours. Look at it as a gift, a well earned gift.

Here is a good counter to a non-God belief; if your experience was indeed a reality, who created it? Something does not come from nothing.

I have had some unbelievable experiences that only those who were seeing it would believe it. There is that saying: "You will see it when you believe it!"

But, the nice thing is; we don't have to explain it!



posted on May, 23 2008 @ 09:47 PM
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originally posted by Allred5923
For the most part bigwhammy, I did take your statement slightly offensive. You of all people know that any psychologist doesn't do anything more than speculate the truths of what is happening and why.


Well Matrix asked a psychological question now didn't she? I'm just offering some of the respected opinions and hypothesis from the professionals. Here's another one you won't like either. Professor Prof. C. Vitz who wrote The Psychology of Atheism is convinced that "for every person strongly swayed by rational argument there are many, many more affected by nonrational psychological factors"(3).

People tend to base their concept of God on their earthly father relationship. After all, to a small child your father is basically God like. Vitz even suggests that according to the "Freudian framework, atheism is an illusion caused by the Oedipal desire to kill the father and replace him with oneself". In relation to the Oedipal desire, psychoanalysis suggests that when one’s father is absent or so weak as to die, or so untrustworthy as to desert, then it becomes easy for that person to place his hostility towards his earthly father on his heavenly Father. There appears to be a link between atheism and poor relationships with ones father.

Of course this is just another hypothesis on the pathology of atheism, but I think one of the best science can muster at this time. But they are working toward a cure. Try Jesus. I was an agnostic and it worked for me.



posted on May, 23 2008 @ 10:02 PM
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reply to post by Allred5923
 

I am sorry that you are taking it this way. I certainly don't feel that I am bashing, but I am sorry if that is what you hear. I did say in the beginning that I had a fair understanding of atheists. I was not questioning your philosophies as I was raised with them. But to have an open discussion with each other as to our beliefs and doubts, etc.

Are we not capable of that? How do you feel you are being abused? Is it because we are discussing this at all? Or is this thread to be one sided? I have to alert you to the fact that I am not codependent. I respect your views and I ask that you respect mine. But this is an open forum, and is not blocked by regulations, or statutes, as to what is codependently acceptable to all.

I won't walk on eggshells because we are discussing something you are not comfortable with.

Also, I happen to be a huge advocate of "where there are choices there are consequences." Or...cause and effect. We are ultimately responsible for our actions. No problem there! Nor do I whine and run to God for something that is my fault. I am accountable, that you can be assured of.

I actually want to congratulate everyone on their civility!
Thanks!!



posted on May, 23 2008 @ 10:06 PM
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reply to post by Bigwhammy
 


Bigwhammy,
I was raised as a Lutheran, I have gone through all the steps of religion including, but not limited to baptism and caddycism during my summer months as a youth.
My sister is studying world religion and theology and I have friends that have 4 years of biblical studies of the same class category.
I am not holding a blind eye to your acceptances and your beliefs as you wish them for you, but I am saying that there is only one thing that will ever make an absolute difference in this world or this plain of existence, nobody knows what happens for sure when your time comes, and if you quote another psychiatrist on that one ,I'll freaking puke.
I don't care that you have to use the shoulders of men to get your point across to individuals/me that being atheist is wrong. The problem you are failing to see is that I am on my own with no psycho babble and reference to people that have a belief system to help make themselves feel whole or good about themselves.
I much rather know that there is nothing that I can't do in my life as far as my knowledge allows, and if I don't know, I will learn it by studying, which by the way leads me right back to my conclusion. "I think there is a conception of a 'God Delusion' that is running rampant and unexplainable for normal societal acceptations as a whole."
There is nothing you have said that I haven't heard before, and I know it will always be that way. I live a good life, not perfect, but good. I help my neighbors and my friends like any other "Normal" person does for their loved ones. The depiction of your explanation leaves me feeling a bit ridiculed and withdrawn for the basic fact, in so many words, you are saying we are incorrect for society and we are more than likely suffering from a mental disorder? I think not.
And when it comes to the conclusions that I have made for myself, they had nothing with the influencing of my father, mother , sisters or anyone else for that matter.
You use your argument as a basis of fact, when in all actuality, they are nothing more than quotes and jabs to defend your stability as a good christian or a person with a belief system.



posted on May, 23 2008 @ 10:07 PM
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Originally posted by MatrixProphet
reply to post by leearco
 



You never set out to make mistakes, you just learn and move on whatever it is.


Oh, I have!!!

I have deliberately done things that I knew were wrong and were a mistake, but it was a choice that I made. I don't believe in being a victim, just a volunteer.

by wrong you might be thinking 'I can get away with it, or a short cut' though?
I would also say a 'volunteer to be a victim' not really separate.
but I dont know your circumstances and am only speculating.



posted on May, 23 2008 @ 10:10 PM
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reply to post by MacDonagh
 



To be honest, I find it hard to believe in a God that wants to be praised all the time. That's just me though.


Well, I don't believe that either.

"God and I have a great relationship, but we both see other people."
-Dolly Parton



posted on May, 23 2008 @ 10:12 PM
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reply to post by Bigwhammy
 


No offense mate, but i don't need to be 'cured'. Atheism is not a disease or disorder, it is a personal choice.

I hate it when religious people get on their high horse and try to 'save' me. I could consider Religion to be the disease and disorder, and yet i personally do not try and make you change your ways.



posted on May, 23 2008 @ 10:15 PM
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reply to post by leearco
 



by wrong you might be thinking 'I can get away with it, or a short cut' though?
I would also say a 'volunteer to be a victim' not really separate.
but I dont know your circumstances and am only speculating.


Yes, and no. Haven't you ever done something knowing that you will suffer the consequences, but feeling it was worth it? I don't do that any longer as it is not worth the pain. But I have been an incredibly addictive person in my life. I had to make the decision to live by my choices or don't make them!

Being a volunteer means to me; I accept the consequences and will not play victim.



posted on May, 23 2008 @ 10:18 PM
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reply to post by fooffstarr
 



I hate it when religious people get on their high horse and try to 'save' me. I could consider Religion to be the disease and disorder, and yet i personally do not try and make you change your ways.


You are right. I don't want this thread to derail into another episode of mud slinging.



posted on May, 23 2008 @ 10:21 PM
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originally posted by Allred5923
I am not holding a blind eye to your acceptances and your beliefs as you wish them for you, but I am saying that there is only one thing that will ever make an absolute difference in this world or this plain of existence, nobody knows what happens for sure when your time comes, and if you quote another psychiatrist on that one ,I'll freaking puke.


Well to quote a great psychologist...


You say "nobody knows what will happen when your time comes" but the preponderance of the evidence points toward a theistic universe and the historical evidence overwhelmingly favors Christianity. So you 're right in that I can only be 90% sure, but why risk eternity in heaven for a 10% faith in nothing but being eaten by worms? Sorry but that sounds irrational to me.

Bottom line... I don't have the faith to be an atheist.



posted on May, 23 2008 @ 10:25 PM
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reply to post by Bigwhammy
 


Well, I guess the two of you need to agree to disagree. What a surprise...you and I don't agree, and we both believe in a higher power! So what does that say?



posted on May, 23 2008 @ 10:28 PM
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I actually find the original poster's comments to be insulting. He? speaks of 'Athiests' as if we have something wrong with us. Something terrible had to happen in my life to make me denounce God. Not the case.

Maybe being an Athiest just means exactly what it says.

A= anti Theist = Theism. Meaning the opposite of Theism, the belief in God. It's not 'anti' like you think, it's just that it doesn't even cross my mind. People that aren't Theists don't sit around thinking 'boy, I'm not a Theist' all the time. They don't even think about the question of God at all. It's simply not an issue.

It means that I don't feel the need to have a 'God' as a crutch in my life, I can manage just fine on my own.

I don't believe in Santa Claus either.



posted on May, 23 2008 @ 10:38 PM
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Why are you so convinced that you're right, when the only evidence of your 'faith' is a book conveniently written by the followers of said faith?

Wake up.



posted on May, 23 2008 @ 10:40 PM
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reply to post by MatrixProphet
 

I see what your saying now.



posted on May, 23 2008 @ 10:47 PM
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Originally posted by fooffstarr
reply to post by Bigwhammy
 


No offense mate, but i don't need to be 'cured'. Atheism is not a disease or disorder, it is a personal choice.

I hate it when religious people get on their high horse and try to 'save' me. I could consider Religion to be the disease and disorder, and yet i personally do not try and make you change your ways.



I tend to agree, I chose to be an Athiest as I felt there was a need to stand up against some of the teachings of the various religious sect that we as people are confronted with. I am personally a non conformist, I am not one of the sheep. Having this way of thinking has it's down side, but it is something I feel happy with, and in saying this the questioning mind I have about religion also questions the reasons for a lot of things in daily life. Be happy there are Athiests in the world, it is these people who look into the things we are expected to believe as a mass of humanity, questioning the very source of idealist and religoius/political mindset that plague us.



posted on May, 23 2008 @ 10:49 PM
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reply to post by MatrixProphet
 


I'm really not trying to convince anyone. But there's always hope for people. You asked a psychological question and I am answering it with the best theories available.

Since God is viewed as our Father in heaven. I favor the father theory. The evidence is that atheism’s greatest philosophers had poor fatherly relationships.

Denis Diderot was an avowed atheist. He is one of the founders of modern atheism. Freud made an insightful comment concerning him: "if the little savage were left to himself, preserving all his foolishness and adding to the small sense of a child in the cradle the violent passions of a man of thirty, he would strangle his father and lie with his mother (Le neveau de Rameau 331).

Although Voltaire was not an atheist, he did not accept the existence of a Personal God. He rejected his father so much that he rejected his father's name and changed his name to "Voltaire."

Sigmund Freud's father was also was a poor role model for Freud. His father was unable to provide for his family, more tellingly Freud writes that his father was a sexual pervert. Karl Marx also made it clear that he didn't respect his father.

Atheists in more recent times like Bertrand Russell's, Nietzsche, Camus, and Sartre lived most of their lives knowing their fathers had died young. I wonder about Richard Dawkins?

Although the "bad dad" theory is far from being a universal representation of unconscious motivation for atheism, it appears to be a strong evangelistic motivator toward the atheistic faith.



posted on May, 23 2008 @ 11:07 PM
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^Well then maybe if you wanna combat atheism focus on bad fathers instead of bugging people who by and large are beyond your ability to convert.



posted on May, 23 2008 @ 11:19 PM
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reply to post by MatrixProphet
 


Heres one you can throw at the Christians and its unavoidable as well.

A Christian believes in something that cannot be heard, see, felt, smelt, and sensed and yet they are convinced it is a godly figure.

To a psychologist this is someone who has a mental disease or has an 'invisible friend' so to them a Christian has a mental problem, unless Christians never go mad or are a 'special circumstance'

I myself am Spiritual and do see, hear, and sense spirits which is more than I can say for God as I have not seen him in any form yet, funny that isnt it. At least what I am has a name 'spiritual channeler' as one of them, cant say that for a Christian.

Where is the name for him in beliving in a God which wont show himself in any form, faithful or delusional, nah lets just call them a beleiver so they dont have to justify it



posted on May, 23 2008 @ 11:27 PM
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reply to post by Drakiir
 


We base our faith on the evidence. Sorry but it's non Christians that are in denial.



Where is the name for him in beliving in a God which wont show himself in any form


Christians do not have to worry about this because God has revealed himself. He did it in dramatic fashion that would be recorded and passed down - so that no man is without excuse. God came to earth as a man, lived a perfect life, gave his life for us, and then rose from the dead to prove his divinity.





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