Why are Atheists...Atheists?

I was raised Catholic, and left that when I left home. I've been to some Christian churches, but mostly stay away from organized religion. They are too narrowly focused for me and try to put limits on God based on their beliefs.

I think there are more levels to reality than what we can observe, and at the top of it all is a universal creative intelligence. Random reactions just don't build things consistently over time.

You have to get beyond the fairy tail stage of religious myths and stories, and past the shallow logic of "Bad things happen so how could a good God exist?" Many atheists let hostility to the over-religious bozos turn them off to God. I totally understand when I see some big toothed preacher with his hand out. Organized religion doesn't have a monopoly on God, God can be whatever He/It means to you. Give it a chance.

Atheism implies that life is a random accident and of no deeper significance. There is too much perfection and interconnectedness to how things work for it to be an accident. As individuals we are more than some just some animal with a big brain. We are the tiny fraction of the matter in the universe that can actually try to understand itself.

reply to post by Bigwhammy


Frankly thats what the Bible has told you but has it happened recently, has a major miraculous world healing happen yet, because if it has I haven seen it.

Jesus walked out on man and as I said to another person, if you believe so strongly than scream out with all your devotion to him to come down and show himself.

The last response I had to that was 'Im just curious about the bible, Im not devoted to it' so Im covering that answer incase I get it again. They were just picking questions from it just from sheer curiosity.

Explain your belief to a psychologist and than we will see who is the saner one in the psychologists opinion, at least I can see spirits, can you see God? So Im in denial because I dont agree with your views, well heres denial for you: The Churches of today are promoted to be supported and nurturing and a place to go for knowledge and yet we have pedophile priests who work in the name of God.

I dont want to be associated with deceitful trash like false 'well intentioned' priests and dictating churches, and I for one expect Jesus to come down and smite him for working under his name in false service to him. So let me know when that happens ok

[edit on 24-5-2008 by Drakiir]

There's no such thing of being Atheist. There is no way that there is no higher being. Something had to create this universe, this life. There is no possible way it was all a really #ing freak coincidence. You have to believe in something, even if it's a gamble. Saying you're atheist is like giving up. You'll go straight to hell. Please believe in a higher being because I want no one to go to hell! I believe in God and Jesus, and I believe they forgive me for my sins when I ask. I was addicted to alcohol and Xanax for years, then I asked God to help me. Two weeks later I'm clean and happy as ever, and never plan to use anymore pills. Hell, I gave up drinking too. This was a miracle by God. So you Atheists need to do some hard thinking. Give praying to God a chance. He'll always come through in one way or another as long as you believe in Him. Please trust me. Give it a try!!!

reply to post by Drakiir

Frankly thats what the Bible has told you but has it happened recently, has a major miraculous world healing happen yet, because if it has I haven seen it.

We have enough historical evidence and first hand eye witness testimony to satisfy beyond a reasonable doubt that Jesus rose from the dead.

There's not supposed to be a world healing... it's supposed to get worse and worse according to the Bible. Guess what? IT IS...

Jesus walked out on man and as I said to another person, if you believe so strongly than scream out with all your devotion to him to come down and show himself.

Absurd. He gave his life for all men. Oh make no mistake, he will be coming soon.

Explain your belief to a psychologist and than we will see who is the saner one in the psychologists opinion, at least I can see spirits, can you see God?

I don't doubt you see things, I just doubt "they" are what you think "they" are.

I'm not a Catholic and i don't see how your rant against pedophile priests has anything to do with Christianity. Obviously those men are niot following the teachings of Jesus. The Christian church is an organism not an organization. It is a living breathing body of believers connected by the Holy Spirit. It has nothing to do with the politics of men.

Last I checked this thread is about why people are atheists. I think an experience like with a pervert priest would probably lead one down that path.
I guess that is one of the reasons the Bible speaks so strongly against false prophets.

reply to post by MatrixProphet


The whole premise of your question is wrong. You are discussing why people "choose" or "become" atheists. That is incorrect. Everyone is born an Atheist. Some people remain that way, others have their minds changed. If there were no brainwashing in the world, we would all still be Atheists.

Why are Atheists...Atheists?

I have to warn you Mr. MatrixProphet, I am the thread killer extrodonaire, and I would hate to ruin your little party you've got going here, because it is an excellent discussion with lot's of old and new members chiming in. To everyone, don't let my thoughts dissuade you from continuing.

But, according to your convenient classification that you have for atheists, you would probably lump me into the scientilogical species or something, because I did reach the conclusion that God does not exist in this manner. It was really simple. I just put myself in God's place and thought about it for a while.

If I was the one and only God, I think I would be a little lonely. After I got past the part of wondering where in the hell I came from, I decide that I might create a race of beings that would keep me company. OK, so I do that and create life on Earth, but I want them to believe in me without any proof, which is kind of counterproductive given that I'm looking for companionship, but that is beside the point. I could have created another God like being like myself, but no I want a lower race to see me in all my glory. Does this make sense?

So Here I am, capable of infinite possibilities. I created the universe and have brought light from darkness. I create a race of beings that for lack of a better word are inferior, but because I made them, well I love them anyway despite all their flaws, and lets not remind them that I tried to wipe them out with the whole flood thing. Does this sound like a reasonable thing for a God to do?

If I were God, would I want this race of beings to argue over who is right and who is wrong? Which religion is right, and which is wrong? Would I allow some of them to treat other people like they were inferior to one race or another? Would I allow one sex to treat the other like they were inferior? Absolutely not.

These are all ideas that come from Man. God is nothing but an idea to keep others in line. Religion is like having some magical power over others to get them to behave in an expected manner.

If I were God and created a race of Man, I would not want him to waste his time worshiping me. I would prefer he try to better himself. To study the world around him and treat each other as equals. This is the only way for him to survive, but he may not figure it out before it is too late.

In a way, Atheism is a freedom in of itself. To understand the reason for our existence is due to a natural occurance and not planned out by someone, is even more amazing than anything you will read about in any book.

All In my opinion.


edit to add: BTW, what up with the Dolly Parton thing?




[edit on 5/24/2008 by Hal9000]

reply to post by Bigwhammy


I think an experience like with a pervert priest would probably lead one down that path.
I guess that is one of the reasons the Bible speaks so strongly against false prophets.


Out of the whole reply you gave I would really love for you to clarify this, are you inferring that I have been victim of these priests, because I assure you I am not. I am going on what I have read or heard not from experience (gratefully).

Yes the Bible does speak of false prophets and yet nothing is done to stop it from continuing with your 'its meant to get worse' view. So your saying Jesus is up there on his throne letting the world tear itself apart in the name of 'self discovery' or 'finding Gods way"?

Now thats absurd

And yes I can blame Jesus because apparently he is the superior being to any of us so only he can make the drastic changes we need so desperately. Unless a 'mere mortal' like myself is better than God which means I would then justifiably have myself to blame, but since Im not than there is only one who is responsible.

Originally posted by dalepmay
reply to post by MatrixProphet

 

The whole premise of your question is wrong. You are discussing why people "choose" or "become" atheists. That is incorrect. Everyone is born an Atheist. Some people remain that way, others have their minds changed. If there were no brainwashing in the world, we would all still be Atheists.

Actually it's exactly the opposite. By instinct people know there is a creator. Throughout history all cultures have always acknowledged a God. It wasn't until man gained a little knowledge that puffed him up enough to be bold enough to deny God. So you are quite incorrect. It takes the indoctrination of something like Darwinism to brainwash people into becoming atheists.

reply to post by Drakiir


I don't think we need to continue to derail this thread on the topic of Christianity and the Bible. But hello? This world is evil. I'm afraid in your case - you might be a little more acquainted with those "spirits" than you are aware. The Bible clearly teaches this world is the control of evil until Christs return. You really should try to get an understanding of what it actually says before you make such rash judgments.

reply to post by Bigwhammy


I think an experience like with a pervert priest would probably lead one down that path.
I guess that is one of the reasons the Bible speaks so strongly against false prophets.

You still didnt answer the question, so clarity is needed on this statement. I will ask it again until it is answered.

The world is evil yes of course it is but it seems God is the only one who can change that and he hasnt yet. Maybe he is too busy gloating about how superior he is to us so fine, he is superior than tell him to get his arse down here and fix the one thing only he can fix.

Unless he wants to sit back and do nothing, doesnt sound so loving now does he

I'd like to hear that answer also. I certainly have never encountered a "perverted priest".

reply to post by Drakiir


You brought up pedophile priests. All I meant by that if that happened to someone, I could understand they would be turned away from everything associated with it. That is the reason the Bible holds the religious leaders to a high standard.

I read a book called The Origin of Consciousness in the Breakdown of the Bicameral Mind by Julian Jaynes

as I recall it theorized that in ancient times many thousand years ago, we had not yet developed self conciousness to the extent that we feel today. Essentially people were more like animals, living in the moment. Then as time went on these ancient people started to have visions of the gods which would command them to do certain things. These gods, cited extensively from ancient writings of the greeks, the oddysey, the illiad etc would urge the person to do what was necessary. This inner voice is what we currently experience as our inner monologue or the inner voice which we now think of as 'I' in ancient times was seen as a wholly seperate entity. This has to do with the way the hemispheres of the brain cross communicate to cause a sense that this voice is an external spirit or divine communication.

Religion springs up from this change in brain function. Then over time these religions became a cultural control method enabling the social elite, the emmisaries of the gods, your popes and your priests, to get all the wealth and power they wanted. Notice how the ancient kings were gods on earth in Egypt etc. or In Japan the emperor was said to be a living god too. you see this in many many cultures.

ok, this is about to get seriously offensive. I apologize in advance, please don't be personally offended by my opinions....

I think Christ is about as believable as Santa Clause or the Easter Bunny, and the bible is garbage. A Mishmash of myths legends, pseudo-history and other nonsense compiled from numerous authors over hundreds or thousands of years. full of inaccuracies and lies. I think religion is an acceptable form of insanity in society, a more adult progression of the imaginary friends you have as a kid. I think organized religion is a disgusting abuse of faith extorting wealth and power from a brainwashed legion of fools. I find the whole sordid thing repulsive. How many televangelists/priests make a tidy profit off their congregation, as soon as money enters the equation the spiritual aspect is currupted beyond hope of salvation.

I am NOT an atheist. I used to be, and specifically because of my traumatic horrible life, just as it was explained early in this thread. I used to feel like God had abandoned me to the wolves, so to speak. Every day was worse than the next and I prayed for my own death and the death of everyone else.

Now I study Buddhist teachings and I think there could be a god but only in that sense that god is the whole of existence and everything is connected. I still adamantly oppose the concept of God as this biblical character who writes rules on stone blocks that nobody adheres to, floods the whole world out of wrath/vengeance, and lives in a fluffy cloud behind some pearly gates. The whole notion is foolish. The world is right in front of us, it is what it is, you can experience it and draw your own conclusions, why in the world would you want to listen to a bunch of nonsense that doesnt make a bit of good sense. have these people ever heard the saying that 'the most obvious conclusion is often the correct one' well nothing about our current world religions seems to rely on the obvious conclusion. Its all abstract, metaphorical, long winded, outdated, irrational unscientific drivel. I don't mean to specifically target christianity really, even if it seems like that, Thats just the group I've had the most trouble with. Really every world religion seems wacko to me. I don't even think of buddhism as a religion, its more like the worlds oldest most effective self help system.

when it comes to religion, deny ignorance. use your head. think for yourself.

Originally posted by Bigwhammy
I have noticed many of the more vocal atheists get angry when confronted with evidence for God.

I don't consider myself athiest but this type of thing irritates me.There is no evidence or proof that God has,was or ever will exist and if you say differently then your lying to yourself and everyone else around you.Or maybe you have solved the mystery that scientists and researchers have been trying to solve for many many years?

Keep in mind that just because you and other cult followers believe in God and someone wrote a "book" about God does not make it fact.Show me actual proof.Something i can see,smell or touch.Anything but supposition and assumptions.

I don't see why atheism needs to have a cause. I always sense that I'm being psychoanalized when I explain to someone that I'm an atheist.

Atheism is simply a lack of belief. The opposite of theism. I don't believe in god for the same reason I don't believe in unicorns or dragons. I simply haven't seen any sufficiently compelling reason to believe.

It seems to be difficult for theists to accept how natural this is, and I've never understood why. They always try to look for a psychological explanation like trauma or narcissism. It really gets tiresome, frankly.

reply to post by xXMakaXx


There is a ton of evidence. Just because you turn a blind eye to it doesn't make it go away. There's the teleological argument the ontological argument and the cosmological argumentfor starters, not to mention the testimonies and historical evidence.

reply to post by Bigwhammy




Perhaps i should make myself a little more clear.Arguments are just that.Arguments are not proof or evidence no matter how much you want them to be.You say there is evidence then SHOW it to me and please not with a YouTube link.

I remember when people ARGUED that the world was flat.You get what i'm trying to say?If not then i don't see how i could be anymore clear.

reply to post by xXMakaXx


that wasn't a youtube link.

If you don't consider logic (arguments) as evidence then there is no need to continue the conversation.

reply to post by Bigwhammy



Everything is logical if you want to believe it bad enough.It doesn't even come close to being evidence.The problem with the human race is that we know it all and if something seems "logical" then it must be true.

There was a mentally disturbed person that lived down the block from me who swore that in a past life he was a cucumber and it seemed pretty logical to him but it doesnt make it true.

reply to post by xXMakaXx

I remember when people ARGUED that the world was flat.You get what i'm trying to say?If not then i don't see how i could be anymore clear.

Wow you are really old if you remember when people argued the world was flat!! There are rules to logic, so your silly examples don't hold water. You refuse to look at the evidence. Reminds me of a famous saying by Herbert Spencer...

“There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments, and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance—that principle is contempt prior to investigation.”

[edit on 5/24/2008 by Bigwhammy]