Project Serpo: Postings by "Anonymous" -- Breaking news?

Originally posted by UM_Gazz
And does 0.02 Yeld Kt. count?

Come to think of it, this might (and this is a BIG "might" and completely "devils advocate" statement) be a supporting fact.

Something (a blast) this small might be similar to strong solar radiation, like that of two suns, where you'd just need to "cover up" a bit more than usual.

[edit on 1/29/06 by redmage]

Originally posted by onlyinmydreams

So RDube is now our equivalent of Jacques Derrida???

Now... to make the above joke clear, Derrida was a french philosopher who introduced the concept of 'deconstructionsim' into intellectual discourse. Though this philosophical movement sputtered into a lot of inane, useless things when it came to political/ethical issues... it still is a major influence in literature and -- of high importance for this situation -- the literature of anthropology.

Basically, ol' Jacques argued that you had to take apart everything someone says and look at the conditions that made them say it.... while keeping in mind that the very same person was constructing an argument/work of art/military log, etc based on their incomplete worldview. To cut to the chase.... this means that whenever you analyze a text you have to take apart the elements that went into it and consider it not as a whole... but as a sum of parts.

Now... looking at the Serpo story... there is nothing, so far, that screams fraud to anyone who claims to be a skilled writer. This is because all of the 'smoking gun' observations have UTTERLY FAILED to take into consideration the forces that went into the 'construction' of this story. They have also failed to try to comperehend the psychology of the writer... and how he probably laid out his original text.

Let me be blunt... we are not looking at the original journal entries. We are looking at the entries as transcribed by Anon that were sent to Bill Ryan... and that were, in turn, posted on his website. Think about that. Think about how basic text in such a situation is going to get moved out of place. Think about how 'Team Leader' might have TITLED an entry with the main theme of the day and then went on to describe those events. If such an entry was typed out and then emailed... wouldn't the original format always get lost????

Seriously, guys, all of this supposedly 'scholarly' debunkment is completely amateur. All of the negative analysis I have seen, so far, has completely missed issues regarding point of view, errors in textual transmission, and any attempt to really analyze the material. This is just another ATS exercise in seeing who can make assertions with the loudest voice.

Out of respect, I have to interject by saying that if we were to think how Anon transcribed it to my understanding which was by phone to Victor or from somebody within the organization making a call to 'Anon' and so forth down the chain and to our ATSNN screens...I can say one thing:

The NSA.
They will shut Anon down immediately via eavesdropping if the Serpo thing is seriously for real. If they knew someone within their federal offices were doing this kind of activity, someone's bound to be watching. After all, it would'nt be surprising if the NSA, DIA, DEA, DOD, etc..are watching their own agents and departments to prevent any leaks.
Making a transcription via phone call (even on a cell phone with a low battery life) is quite an inappropriate thing to do and can cause mistakes. Now, think about this..of all those journals that took up a lot of writing, how long do you think those phone calls last?
Long enough for the NSA to trace the call down and go " Say goodnight, Gracie..you're busted ".
If Anon was smart, a snapshot of documents or such would've sufficed. Not transcriptions over the phone.
As a matter of fact, I suggest "Anon" to make a Podcast transcription directly to us.
If I were a spook, I would'nt be stupid enough to make a phone call to relay information which is all I'm going to say.
I would'nt go with "text messaging"...that would've taken too abominably long to complete.

That's my 2 cents....once again.

-Sanctum1972

EDIT: one more thing I forgot to mention..the only thing I can think of if this information is leaked out thru the pipeline without the phone calling would have to be done through....the RIM BlackBerry or a similar device. And that's a lot of typing right there to 'sneak' this kind of info out.

[edit on 29-1-2006 by Sanctum1972]

Originally posted by Cutwolf

"They took all 308s blood, that was without my approval. I wrote about that in log 3888. We had a very tense situation with the Ebens about that."
--End Log Entry--


--Log Entry 3888 start--
"When we traveled to the building housing 308s body, we were confronted by several Ebens. Ebe1 showed up and I explained that we wanted the body of 308."

Interesting point, but then it would have made sense for "Anon" to have broke them down as such instead of clumping them together. It is the same journal entry.

[edit on 28-1-2006 by Cutwolf]

The whole of 13 was split into 2 parts. Is it one log entry or 2? Is there a reason for it being split? Is there a reason for it being split where it was? Maybe it's multiple log entries put together. We can't tell.

If this is actual disclosure then it would actually make sense to add some peices that make it scream hoax. Plausible deniability until proof is actually given. Don't get me wrong. I understand that people feel let down and a bit used by this. I just don't feel that way no matter how it turns out because I'm voluntarily posting. I could just be watching comedy central. Same difference to me. But bear with me please. If it's real, it would have to be contained. It would have to be a controlled release. It would have to be seen as a hoax to begin with in order to acclimate many types of people.

Let's say that the information war has always been about covering the core truth. The core truth being the paradigm shifting idea of interaction with alien beings. Now let's say that the gov thought they could get some valuable technology by offering some humans for experimentation. There were some operations such as serpo (probably not the projects real name). But in the late 80s and early 90s the game stepped up. Secrets were found out. People in high places got scared. They always planned to disclose but only when it would serve their purposes. Things change.

Why the change of gaurds? Maybe the Ebens found out the human game plan and now the humans need to step up the timetable. If it's real I'm going out like Bruce Willis in Die Hard. I'll have more one liners than 007. When they are looking for a pilot to get the virus to the mothership I'll already be sitting on a gravity nuke in their engine room.

The Ebens on Serpo are just a small part of the total Eben population. It was a ruse of sorts to make their numbers appear small. The gov knows better now.

The whole problem is how do you have 191 (or however many countries there are) different governments tell their populations the cold hard facts? We have an enemy that is far superior and wants us and our planet. How do you tell them about what appears to be a futile fight? How do you tell them you sold them out and still keep your power?

You would need to play along with the aliens as much as possible. Giving pretty much whatever was asked. You would need to slowly alert the population to the possibility while keeping it all firmly in the realm of fiction. Movies would be an excellent way. Final disclosure would need perfect timing and a perfect medium.

Is the CT community primed for sanctioned disclosure? I can't pretend to know all the variables and tables of data aquired by counter-intelligence to answer that question with any level of authority. I do know that the CT community is now fully hoaxed to death. Everyone is sick of the disinfo, hoaxes and phantom carrots. The conspiracy theories are all out there. Anything that may be considered new is just a furthering of previous conspiracies. 9-11, 3-11, 7-7 and now 11-2. The community at large may be waking up to the circles it's been going in since the 60s. Who knows.

If anyone was wondering, the secret to remaining objective in the face of a hoax is to simply assign no emotion to the event whatsoever. I play with my own emotions so I was trying to see what actual disclosure might feel like. What a paradigm shift of that size would feel like. But anyway, just trying to be helpful. I don't like to see people feeling used or anything. Have fun ya'z!

Originally posted by onlyinmydreams
So RDube is now our equivalent of Jacques Derrida???

Given your track record of attacking anyone who has offered a "debunk" theory, I do not take your last post to heart. Thanks for offering your opinion though - I will give it much consideration as I sit here waiting for that elusive picture of Eben children playing soccer. I can't wait.

-rdube02

Originally posted by Valhall
Well, if we're in that phase now, I guess I could share this info I found on the 20th. I'm not implying anything, just sharing.

Bill Ryan of London is a Science Fiction writer

www.locusmag.com...
www.amazon.com...

I personally think this is a great find. Though I wish it had been shared earlier...just sayin'.

If it's true, man my theory was way off

I think it's a discovery that deserves a response from Bill though.

So Bill are you Bill Ryan the scifi author? I'm sure there's more than on bill ryan in england but are you that bill ryan.

Spiderj

Folks:

Just got in from dinner out and I can see that you're (largely) unhappy with the recent releases. I understand that. I've not had a good day, either. I need to say a few things and then it's up to each of you to choose whether to believe me or not.

1) I'm not a science fiction writer. Whomever someone dug up is not me. Check it out, please, before starting wild rumors. That's a serious request because that kind of mud tends to stick and it's actually not at all fair if the accusation is not true. I would be personally grateful if someone could look into it and show that that person is not me.

My personal details:
Full name: William James Vincent Ryan
Date of birth: 23 February 1953
Current address: Bristol, England – previously (for many years) in Scotland.
You already have my photo online.

I'm not David Icke, either.

2) I didn't correct any typos (or facts) and have done what I always pledged I would do: report exactly what I received. I didn't even insert the paragraph breaks. I'm quite a good writer (though unpublished!) and would have made a far better job of it than this; I also have a science background. I did not add or delete one word, let alone write it.

3) I'm well aware of all the inconsistences and I agree with all the points raised. Most of them are obvious.

4) I considered refusing to post this pending further investigation. I did actually post it, verbatim and untouched, because of what I'd promised to you and others I would do.

5) It's easy to label this as hokum. Anyone can be forgiven for doing so. (But, a personal plea: don't blame the messenger.) However, if we're being scientific, we could hypothesise that the new data is there to discredit the old (I posted that theory a few pages back, inspired by Shawnna... remember?)... or that this is all part of a policy of plausible deniability. This is still easy for the Powers that Be to deny. Meanwhile, there is corrroboration out there that events like this did happen. This could still be disinformation... which, remember, is based on truth. If that's correct, the challenge now becomes to identify the parts which are accurate.

6) I believe there will be more information. If you do not want to receive it on this forum, let me know.

Best to all, Bill

Originally posted by Bill Ryan
6) I believe there will be more information. If you do not want to receive it on this forum, let me know.

Bill:

You've been a gentleman and a thoughtful messenger for this information. Although I'm only one voice here, I would like you to continue to post the information here. Your efforts and steady, unbiased delivery of the message has brought a refreshing air of respectability to the concept that this could be disclosure, even at times when the information itself, at first glance, appears to be problematic.

The fine folks here at ATS will continue to pick this apart, put it back together, and find the most interesting bits for us to play with. But the story is not about the truth of Anon's disclosure.. it's the disclosure itself.... at least and until we get some hard evidence that tells us what this all means with some degree of certainty.

And to those who would foreclose this discussion prematurely, all I can say it why? Punditry is free, fun, and it's what we do here.

As usual... enjoy the ride


[edit on 29-1-2006 by Centrist]

1) I'm not a science fiction writer. Whomever someone dug up is not me. Check it out, please, before starting wild rumors. That's a serious request because that kind of mud tends to stick and it's actually not at all fair if the accusation is not true. I would be personally grateful if someone could look into it and show that that person is not me.

Fair enough. But I don't think you should look at it as mud slinging, he didn't say it was you, he said there is a science fiction writer in england named bill ryan. Mudslinging would be claiming you were that man instead of bringing up a possible red flag, we're a curious group bill.

I personally find it a reasonable question. I also find your answer reasonable and thank you for your honesty.

I am curious as to what comes next.

Pictures perchance?

SPiderj

Originally posted by Bill Ryan
6) I believe there will be more information. If you do not want to receive it on this forum, let me know.

Keep it coming. Such is the bread and butter of ATS. I happen to be a skeptic myself and that's putting it mildly, but there are those here who believe. The final analysis can not be accomplished without the final installment.

[edit on 2006/1/29 by GradyPhilpott]

I just would also say again what I said 5 pages back already! Whew!

That I think it is great to have Bill here posting the information directly to us with no editing!

I feel like he gave the most probable scientific research data, but with a storyline.Interesting none the least.tHIS ISN'T THE FIRST TIME i HAVE HEARD OF THE eBENS.

Originally posted by rdube02

Originally posted by onlyinmydreams
So RDube is now our equivalent of Jacques Derrida???

Given your track record of attacking anyone who has offered a "debunk" theory, I do not take your last post to heart. Thanks for offering your opinion though - I will give it much consideration as I sit here waiting for that elusive picture of Eben children playing soccer. I can't wait.

-rdube02

I think it's funny that you want to portray me as someone who is only out to 'attack' people who want to debunk the story. Why? Because any objective reader will notice that, on this thread alone, I've offered up pro-serpo and anti-serpo arguments, that I've countered my own arguments later on if I realized they were wrong, and that, all along, I have never made a single post a 'personal' or aggressive one.

I also think that this attempt at making me look like a malicious Serpo supporter is funny because I've been on this board for three years and, in that time -- whether they like me or not -- most of the members have come to realize that I try to approach each issue from a fair standpoint (and that I'm fair enough to acknowledge that I might be wrong about some things).

So, RDube... I hate to break it to you... but I am only pointing out that your 'smoking gun' debunkment isn't as tight as it seems. You FAILED to take into account the possible outlook of the 'Team Leader'. You FAILED to take into account errors in the transcription of the text (especially parts that may have been side-notes, page headings, etc), and you also FAILED to analyze the subject from outside of yourself. The only thing you did do was make an anecdotal argument that made a lot of assertions.

So, sorry RDube... you may be the writer that you claim to be... but you are certainly not a scholar who has any concept of how to analyze a document. I suggest that you take a class with a title like 'Literary Criticism 101' and hope for the best.

Originally posted by Bill Ryan


1) I'm not a science fiction writer. Whomever someone dug up is not me. Check it out, please, before starting wild rumors. That's a serious request because that kind of mud tends to stick and it's actually not at all fair if the accusation is not true. I would be personally grateful if someone could look into it and show that that person is not me.

My personal details:
Full name: William James Vincent Ryan
Date of birth: 23 February 1953
Current address: Bristol, England – previously (for many years) in Scotland.
You already have my photo online.

Here’s the thing...

SciFi Author’s Bill Ryan & Charles Ryan were born in 1956 & 1946 respectively.
www.locusmag.com...

Well personally I would have considered the facts about Zeta 1 and Zeta 2 that were wrong the smoking gun.

There is no third Star in the system.

I would not call a foul now just because of something as trivial as inconsistencies in the text.

Originally posted by Centrist
You've been a gentleman and a thoughtful messenger for this information. Although I'm only one voice here, I would like you to continue to post the information here. Your efforts and steady, unbiased delivery of the message has brought a refreshing air of respectability to the concept that this could be disclosure, even at times when the information itself, at first glance, appears to be problematic.

I agree with this statement - Bill, regardless of how much we pull apart the information - we are in no way attacking you. We appreciate the job you are doing bringing the information to us in an unbiased way. Please do keep it coming.

-rdube02

Originally posted by OCD DETECTIVE
SciFi Author’s Bill Ryan & Charles Ryan were born in 1956 & 1946 respectively.

Just for the record, if you listen to Bill's interview with Jerry Pippin from last December, you will hear Bill say he's 52. That meant he was born in 1953.

I will state this "some things are written in fiction because they are to big for life."

"Logic dictates what is known, but what will the unknown dictate to us".

Discernment is needed.Find your truths and throw away the rest.

Originally posted by lost_shaman
Well personally I would have considered the facts about Zeta 1 and Zeta 2 that were wrong the smoking gun.

There is no third Star in the system.

I would not call a foul now just because of something as trivial as inconsistencies in the text.

See, this is the kinda thing I've been talking about all along. We cannot judge these docs based on what we know right now... simply because we cannot assume that our perspective is entirely correct. For example... the star system 'Sirius' has three stars. For a very long time it was assumed to be a solitary, then double star. The fact that it is a three-star system would have been considered 'silly' to someone in 1800.

My overall point is that we cannot debunk these docs based on what we think we know... or how we think someone in the docs would or should have acted/reacted. For all we know the 'smoking gun' of the 'Team Leader' mentioning the day's events twice and in different tenses was a product of textual transmission error or a situation where entry headers were treated by a later typist as part of the text's body. Hell.... this could all be an audio recording (as some have suggested) with written text mixed into it.

My point, overall, is that some of you guys are trying to do what is called a 'textual analysis'... but the problem is that you don't have the original text.

At best... you can only do an analysis that focuses on the internal structure of the story. In that case, so far, the Serpo story is still alive.

I realize that Bill has tried to reprint the text from Anon as he has received it. Even if he is doing a great job at reproducing it word for word, though, this does not allow for a true textual analysis... simply because we have no comparison for a 'source' text.

Overall, I am simply saying that the type of textual analysis that the Mods at ATS decided was worthy of 'smoking gun' status is misplaced. It's simply bad scholarship.

Originally posted by Centrist
Bill:

You've been a gentleman and a thoughtful messenger for this information. Although I'm only one voice here, I would like you to continue to post the information here. Your efforts and steady, unbiased delivery of the message has brought a refreshing air of respectability to the concept that this could be disclosure, even at times when the information itself, at first glance, appears to be problematic.


The fine folks here at ATS will continue to pick this apart, put it back together, and find the most interesting bits for us to play with.

I couldn't have said it better myself, , and please Bill, don't take any of this "picking it apart and putting it back together" personally.

Your answer to the sci-fi author question is fair enough, if your name was Zimbabwe Finkelschmidt (or some other crazy unusual concoction) it might be another story , but I , like you, have a name which could be considered "common". In fact, I went to high school with two guys that shared my name.

I, and many others, appreciate your coming here to discuss this directly, regardless of the outcome of (or verdict on) the serpo story.

Thanks again.

RM

[edit on 1/29/06 by redmage]

No matter what we are going to have a fifty- fifty basis on left brained and right brained basis.