The American Civil War of 2005 as predicted by John Titor

Originally posted by syrinx high priest
I'm always curious why posters hang onto this hoax so hard. I've asked repeatedly for the 43 waco like events that were covered by the mainstream media that get progressively worse, and no one has even really established even ONE.

why ask for 43 events of a topic(?) when within this topic it is outlined that they will not be found???? mainstream will not have what you seek, Elian, Waco, and Ruby are all events displayed by the media under false issues. the facts were not revealed and to this day are still not(unless you do some digging for yourself).

so really what titor was telling us is the truth will be right in front of us, but the story will be spun to hide the truth. you wanna help find those? im not interested in finding them myself. i got better things to do, but if you want to start a joint effort ill jump in with you.

So glyph, if you want to impress me, leave the insults out of it, ...

i didnt insult you, tho if you felt insulted at least that means you read what i wrote. theres allways that i guess


TJW im serious only to the point of rebutting the claim of "hoax" when clearly the issue is not settled.

Originally posted by Glyph_D
[]

i didnt insult you

really ?

I guess we have different definitions of insult.

Heres what you posted;

are you thick???
the truth is you dont know sh*t

why should I bother debating with you if you can't even admit what the simple facts are in your own post

I think you don't believe any of it, you just like a good internet debate.

Have you moved out of the range of Russian nukes or purchased lots of bike tires ?

Have you warned your family, friends, coworkers and neighbors about the impending holocaust of 3 billion dead ?

If not, why not ?

Originally posted by Glyph_D
TJW im serious only to the point of rebutting the claim of "hoax" when clearly the issue is not settled.

According to you and you alone.
You're holding on to something.....but what? What makes you think it's not settled? More importantly, WHY are you still holding on to hope that Titor was correct? I honestly don't get it....Why would anyone with any intelligence do this to themselves? Continually and purposely deluding themselves....to what end?

Originally posted by ThatsJustWeird

Originally posted by Glyph_D
TJW im serious only to the point of rebutting the claim of "hoax" when clearly the issue is not settled.

According to you and you alone.
You're holding on to something.....but what? What makes you think it's not settled? More importantly, WHY are you still holding on to hope that Titor was correct? I honestly don't get it....Why would anyone with any intelligence do this to themselves? Continually and purposely deluding themselves....to what end?

Well, even after 8 August 2008 when the "next" Olympic Games starts in Beijing, there will still be people claiming this is not a hoax. Or even after 24 August 2008, when it will succesfully finish, or when we are already living in 2023 without a civil war in USA happened during the next 16 years! Because these people will find their reasons to keep on their belief. Probably something like "well, our timeline is a bit off than JT's one". Ah well. Whoever was JT, he is really having a good laugh, that so many people devoted so many time and resources on his joke

Originally posted by IchiNiSan

Originally posted by ThatsJustWeird

You're holding on to something.....but what?..... Continually and purposely deluding themselves....to what end?

Well, even after ... Olympic Games starts in Beijing, there will still be people claiming this is not a hoax. .... Probably something like "well, our timeline is a bit off than JT's one". Ah well.

TJW why do you think this is affecting my life? i just come in here see what you(or anyone) gots to say and make a response and then usually walk away from my PC(after digging through the net for a while).


IchiNiSan you know what will be said but can you prove to me thats not the truth? could it be possible for that to be an actual outcome?

what you fellas are not getting is> outside of this forum a real world is going in the wrong direction and its not letting up. this "War on Terror" WILL find its way into our backyards, its gots nowhere else to go.

Exactly Glyph.

Also, the division between country and cities would be well defined if martial law was declared. Also, martial law would be the so-called ``security`` JT talks about, also the event that would wake up a lot of people.

All we are saying is that there's a lot of potential for a civil war in the USA.

Do you deny the country is going broke? That there's a police state? That Bush is the most powerful president ever? That 9/11 was an inside job? That the war on terror is a fraud? That the borders are wide open? That militias and many groups are just waiting for the occasion to take on others group and the government? If you don't either you're not informed or you in denial. Period.

Originally posted by Vitchilo
Exactly Glyph.

Also, the division between country and cities would be well defined if martial law was declared. Also, martial law would be the so-called ``security`` JT talks about, also the event that would wake up a lot of people.

Titor NEVER states there will be martial law anywhere.

All we are saying is that there's a lot of potential for a civil war in the USA.

Umm no. We would have BEEN had another one by now. This nation is extremely calm compared to just a few decades ago.

See that poll in the NY Post the other day? lol
www.nypost.com...

August 15, 2007 -- A surprising 94 percent of Americans say they are satisfied with their lives - although far fewer in New York and other Eastern states think they're better off than they were five years ago, according to a new survey.

The Harris Poll of more than 1,000 people reported the overall "satisfaction" level, defined as people who said they were either very or somewhat satisfied with their lot, was up 4 percentage points, from 90 percent two years ago.

But only 42 percent of people in the Eastern U.S. said things had improved since 2002. By contrast, 60 percent of Southerners and 62 percent of Westerners said their lives had improved.

Do you deny the country is going broke?

This country has been broke since it's founding in the 1700s.

You fail to grasp how economies work. Especially now since they're all tied together

That there's a police state?

Yes, I'm denying it. You obviously have never seen a police state before. Those who have would justifiably smack you for saying something like that.

That Bush is the most powerful president ever?

You are absolutely out of your mind if you think anything Bush has done is new.

That 9/11 was an inside job?

Problem with this statement is that it requires evidence....
You don't have any.

That the war on terror is a fraud?

Hardly. We've been fighting it for decades. It's just out in the open now. You have no clue to what you're talking about or what's going on in the world.
Please come up from whatever basement or cave you're in.....

That the borders are wide open?

Always have been since this country was founded. That was done on purpose. It just wasn't a problem before.

That militias and many groups are just waiting for the occasion to take on others group and the government?

Umm no. Militias are created to protect their States. Sure you may have some antigovernment citizens in some of them, but that is by no means the reasons militias are created. And militias certainly don't care what others do - as long as it doesn't interfere with them or their state.

If you don't either you're not informed or you in denial. Period.

You always post CRAP but you never post where you get this CRAP from. Some secret Canadian website or something? lol

Why do you talk like you're from the U.S. btw?

[edit on 18-8-2007 by ThatsJustWeird]

Problem with Titor is that everything and anything what he said can not be proven false. Especially if we have people among us, that EVERYTHING is covered up by the evil government. This "everything" is for example another "Wacko event which could proof JT right"

The only thing I remember Titor really claimed and CAN be VERIFIED (Falsified) is that he said there won't be another Olympic Games. So let;s wait till 08/08/2008. That would for me be the ultimate proof he is a hoax, a guy with a lot of forsights and can make reasonable political/economical prediction though, nonetheless a hoax. But again, I'm sure people will hold on this belief and will make up an excuse that "JT did mention timeless are never the same".

TJW you should have bold texted the next sentence of your EX.

"although far fewer in New York and other Eastern states think they're better off than they were five years ago, according to a new survey.

undoubtedly its the red states that were polled(by majority):/ and notice they dont give the details of what "far fewer" means, this is a biased piece of shiat.

TJW you(we all) are living in a world of disinformation. you would be telling me the same thing if those results were in my(our) favor.

You always post CRAP but you never post where you get this CRAP from. Some secret Canadian website or something? lol

Why do you talk like you're from the U.S. btw?

ive read the things VItchilo speaks of. you should start looking around in the dark corners of the net, because your mainstream browsing isnt cutting it:/ what does it matter where he is from IF this problem becomes a reality it effects the world, its a human issue not a patriotism issue(NWO).

IchiNiSan i get that your put off by the "timeline divergence" issue, BUT im a scholar of all sorts of things and it is already theoried that time does behave as such. scientifically he has a platform to stand apon, who am i to refuse to consider the possibility??

[edit on 18/8/07 by Glyph_D]

You always post CRAP but you never post where you get this CRAP from. Some secret Canadian website or something? lol

Yeah sure. Then after all your answer, I can't nothing for you, you're just in denial and misinformed. I guess you're in the 25% of nutjobs who support Bush? Or the Iraq war? Or amnesty? Or Hillary Clinton? HAHAHAHA

Why do you talk like you're from the U.S. btw?

Because it makes it easier for you, and anyway, what is happenning in the US is affecting Canada and we have and we'll have the same BS you'll have thanks to Northcom.

You shoud listen to that:


Now martial law is presented as something normal and a little thing. Wake up before it's too late.

When martial law happens, internet and this website is down to turn us to internet 2 where everything is controlled, you'll know we were right and I hope that you'll fight with us against the tyranny.

Seriously TJW, from most of your posts, I don't know what you're doing on this website aside from being a troll. Seriously, you're close minded, can't imagine something and starting from this point like Glyph, Roth and me are doing.

[edit on 18-8-2007 by Vitchilo]

Originally posted by Glyph_D

IchiNiSan i get that your put off by the "timeline divergence" issue, BUT im a scholar of all sorts of things and it is already theoried that time does behave as such. scientifically he has a platform to stand apon, who am i to refuse to consider the possibility??

[edit on 18/8/07 by Glyph_D]

indeed scientifically he has a point, nobody should ignore the possibility, but my critics is towards those who hold JT's "prediction" as a belief to the point of another smaller scale religion and trying to make it a self-fulfilling prophecy by stubbornly spreading it to weaker minds.

for all the history buffs eagerly awaiting an eruption of violence, if there wasn't a civil war in 1968, there won't be one over tasers and such

as I posted about 100 pages ago, the average american, sadly enough, is content with cable TV and fast food, and really doesn't care about whats happening outside their own lives. As the roman emperors figured out, "give them bread and circuses, and they will care not who leads them"

I don't see any urban citizens moving to the country because their rights are being taken away, because they don't even realize it's happening. Moat americans are more versed in Lindsay Lohans arrest record than any legislation being passed



anyway


can a single titorite prove they've taken steps to prepare for the oncoming nuclear holocasut ? moved to fiji ? purchased bike tires ?

I bet not a single one of you really believes JT really travelled in time, you just like a good argument

Originally posted by Glyph_D
TJW you should have bold texted the next sentence of your EX.

"although far fewer in New York and other Eastern states think they're better off than they were five years ago, according to a new survey.

For what?

undoubtedly its the red states that were polled(by majority):/ and notice they dont give the details of what "far fewer" means, this is a biased piece of shiat.

wtf? This has nothing to do with "red or blue"
They just said that many DON'T feel as though they're better off....that doesn't mean they hate their lives though and aren't satisfied.

TJW you(we all) are living in a world of disinformation. you would be telling me the same thing if those results were in my(our) favor

Actually, I just posted that to get a rise from you guys. Even though that poll may be true I wouldn't use that in an argument or anything like that. Unlike you guys I've able to discern and separate fluff pieces and propaganda from truth.
And your next statement here:

ive read the things VItchilo speaks of. you should start looking around in the dark corners of the net, because your mainstream browsing isnt cutting it:/

Proves it.

My stuff come from things that are backed by MULTIPLE sources and can be proven.
Vit doesn't get his stuff from the dark corners of the net, he gets them from the dark corners of the sub basement of the net.
Why would I, and would you recommend looking at obvious bull(*)?
The point is to get to the truth of the matter not waste valuable time on nonsense.

what does it matter where he is from IF this problem becomes a reality it effects the world, its a human issue not a patriotism

issue(NWO).

He's obviously lying to us. I just want him to come clean....


Vit:

Yeah sure. Then after all your answer, I can't nothing for you, you're just in denial and misinformed.

Could you say specifically what you're referring to? What am I misinformed about? What am I denying? And could you please provide credible information to back your answers up. Shouldn't be that hard right?

I guess you're in the 25% of nutjobs who support Bush? Or the Iraq war? Or amnesty? Or Hillary Clinton? HAHAHAHA

No. On all counts. As I've stated many times I can't stand Bush and he will likely and rightfully go down as one of the worst presidents we've ever seen. The Iraq war is a mess and if we had competent leaders we wouldn't be in this situation
Amnesty? You're kidding right??
Hillary? If you just said I support Bush, why would you say I support Hillary as well? Anyway, I DON'T. Not by ANY stretch of the imagination. There isn't enough money in the world to make me support her. My dignity won't allow it.
Where in this thread or anywhere on this site or anywhere on this green earth have I ever even hinted that I support any of that stuff. You're not helping yourself with these ridiculous arguments vit...

Seriously, you're close minded, can't imagine something and starting from this point like Glyph, Roth and me are doing.

Get real Vit. Just because I don't believe everything I read does not in any way shape or form make me close minded. Unlike you who just believes everything you hear, I actually do (real) research on the subject...looking at it from ALL angles not just one, then I start to form an opinion or statement. You should try it some time.
What you, Glyph, and Roth are doing is coming to the conclusion THEN doing your so called "research" based your preset conclusion. Focusing on just one angle and completely ignoring all others.

Originally posted by ThatsJustWeird
They just said that many DON'T feel as though they're better off....that doesn't mean they hate their lives though and aren't satisfied.

right... but they make no mention on what emotional disposition they have, SO it could very well be they hate their lives and are dissatisfied. and im most certain, if that is the case they would refuse to print that(or be force not to).

Actually, I just posted that to get a rise from you guys. Even though that poll may be true I wouldn't use that in an argument or anything like that.

your funny, you say things like this then follow up with things like this.

Unlike you guys I've able to discern and separate fluff pieces and propaganda from truth....My stuff come from things that are backed by MULTIPLE sources and can be proven.

which is it? by the way ive never seen your credible sources(that are relevant)

The point is to get to the truth of the matter not waste valuable time on nonsense.

how can you discern whats credible and whats not? do you use your "gut instincts"? like i said before; after ww2 propaganda became mainstream and it tries its hardest to spread to all corners of the world. we are living within a disinformation era. so again how do you know your sources arnt the BS? and again what sources? i dont see them.


ill ask you this, dont bother with the above. from your sources can you see a likely progression that could form into world events? if so what is the nature of that progression?

What you, Glyph, and Roth are doing is coming to the conclusion THEN doing your so called "research" based your preset conclusion. Focusing on just one angle and completely ignoring all others.

you need to stop make sweeping statments like this(it just confuses the reader). you are part right but you are also part wrong.

within this topic >"Titor"< we are given very little options to form our opinions. he claimed thing OF our future, all we can do is attempt to verify or falsify what he stated. because of his claims we are given a unique problem.

1. is john titor real? meaning did he indeed travel from the future?

2. will his claims of the future become our reality?

if you want to debate question 1. well good luck, i dont see how you could prove or disprove that. my stance on this question is> he may be legit, because his science may be accurate. and becuase what he claimed(scientifically) has yet to be discovered by our time period(BHs, multi timelines, ect), i see no harm in taking the step that he is from a time that is a bit future in the technology realm.

debateing question 2. is an interesting one. even if titor is legit its "possible" for our timeline to be radically different than his. we are left with a waiting game, we must wait for these claims to come and go(if we are seeking the truth).

and now for the unique problem> we can not use the the outcome of Q1 to verify Q2, nor can we use Q2 to verify Q1. the two questions must be isolated from one another, and researched separately.

by reading the above it can be said we are forming a conclusion before looking at the evidence, but only becuase we must wait for that evidence. but by no means are we sticking to one angle nor are we ignoring any elements.

if any thing you should be saying we are "grasping for straws". however what Vit(and many other on ATS) is doing is helpful becuase he is bringing certain variables to our attention(and i thank him for that).

*******read if you want********

what i think your problem is(its not really a problem), is you debate with us with a poker face. you hide your true opinions and simply try to play devils advocate. let me use an example, by reading your replys it "could be" said you are in support of the current administration. but then you come in and give a 10 word sentence simply leting us know you are not, however countless replys after another you present a "quasi-form" of support. ive seen you get into argument on this board and others where you lead the reader into blind patriotism, and people assume your "for" then you counter stating your "against". as if that makes everything you state ok and reliable.

your life is yours to dictate, so i wont go futher in to that. the point of that is people will continue to assume your "for" bush , the police state, NAU, RFIDtags, corruption. its just something your gonna have to deal with.

[edit on 19/8/07 by Glyph_D]

Originally posted by Glyph_D
right... but they make no mention on what emotional disposition they have, SO it could very well be they hate their lives and are dissatisfied. and im most certain, if that is the case they would refuse to print that(or be force not to).

1. That makes no sense

2. Forced by who? And please don't say the government. I don't know if you've noticed but the government's (including Congress, etc.) is in the toilet. The media is having a field day in exploiting this. You guys say the media is controlled and blah blah blah, but they use every chance they get to write a negative piece about the gov. You have newsrooms booing Bush and gang, etc.

your funny, you say things like this then follow up with things like this.

which is it?

I'm not following
Which is what?
Perhaps you didn't understand what I was saying?

I was saying I posted that article just to see your reaction. not to prove a point or anything as I knew that article was just a fluff piece. Unlike you guys, I can tell the difference between fluff pieces and propaganda and what's based in fact and truth.

by the way ive never seen your credible sources(that are relevant)

lol

*sigh*
What topic?

how can you discern whats credible and whats not? do you use your "gut instincts"?

Something credible is backed by FACT and not opinion. No I don't use "gut instincts" I use facts. You guys use opinions and twisted logic.

like i said before; after ww2 propaganda became mainstream and it tries its hardest to spread to all corners of the world. we are living within a disinformation era. so again how do you know your sources arnt the BS? and again what sources? i dont see them.

Ahhh I think this is your problem. You see I don't use just one source or anything like that. Is that what you guys are doing? Just going one place?
Whatever subject we're talking about I find credible info on that subject. So again, which topic have we discussed that you want to know where I've gotten my info?
(of course some stuff I've said is just plain common sense)

from your sources can you see a likely progression that could form into world events? if so what is the nature of that progression?

Again, I don't have any set sources.
What's going to happen? Please if I knew that, I'd be a rich man
What do I think is going to happen? More of the same that's happened for the past 1000 years or so....just with better technology and a ton more people. The War on Terror will likely end up like the war on drugs. Economies world wide will continue to see highs and lows. There will be more wars of course. Some big, some small. Eventually with world resources becoming strained we'll likely be forced to look (and spread??) into space for resources. Eventually. If humans are good at one thing, it's adapting. The adaption periods may be rough, but it'll eventually work itself out. Specifically talking about Global warming, running out of oil, etc.
These are observations based on history and common sense. Not some guy on youtube.



Umm....I'll go over your middle part when I find someone to decipher it

*******read if you want********

what i think your problem is(its not really a problem), is you debate with us with a poker face. you hide your true opinions and simply try to play devils advocate.

I'm certainly not hiding my true opinions. I just choose the side that uses common sense and isn't so gullible.

let me use an example, by reading your replys it "could be" said you are in support of the current administration. but then you come in and give a 10 word sentence simply leting us know you are not, however countless replys after another you present a "quasi-form" of support.

I've asked this I don't know how many times before but I have NEVER gotten and answer yet.
WHERE ARE THESE POSTS!!!!????
Show specifically what posts lead you to believe I have ANY support, be it quasi or full blown, for the administration or anything like that. That's all I ask.

ive seen you get into argument on this board and others where you lead the reader into blind patriotism, and people assume your "for" then you counter stating your "against". as if that makes everything you state ok and reliable.

This is straight up BS. Please show me this or give an example

your life is yours to dictate, so i wont go futher in to that. the point of that is people will continue to assume your "for" bush , the police state, NAU, RFIDtags, corruption. its just something your gonna have to deal with.

lol, if the intellectual level of this board was a wee bit higher I guarantee you that wouldn't be something I have to "deal with." Making such blind assumptions is very childish and just plain stupid.

specially when these assumption are based on nothing. In this thread for example:
....I don't believe in Titor so I must support the Bush administration (this is basically the argument Vit and W2H uses)....
What kind of BS is that?

Hi Everyone ! I'm a time traveller from 2036 ! Here is my machine;





I was sent here by the military to get a printer that makes color copies.

We can time travel, but making color copies is really hard after 3 billion people are killed in a nuclear holocaust, so the miltary decided we don't need weapons grade uranium, or water filtering technology, vaccines or oil, I'm just here on an errand.

I decided not to go to CNN, rather an obscure time travel thread to get the word out. I'm not going to use my insider information to get rich while I'm here so I can bring valuable things back to my timeline, I'm just going to hang out and post.

I won't warn you about impending natural disasters or acts of terrorism or war, screw you !

I'm very preachy and vague, but I'm smart enough not to overreact to those that challenge me or ask for proof.

Does anyone know a good entertainment lawyer that has hollywood connections ?


Anyway, here are some things to chew on


Governments will try to stay in power, and increase their scope of influence

The melting polar ice caps will dilute the north atlantic current, and temperatures in Europe will start to cool, while north america gets hotter

people will be mean to each other, and violence ensues.

don't eat a high fat diet

there will be conflict in the middle east

lindsay lohan will have a troubled life

any questions ?

Originally posted by syrinx high priest
any questions ?

Yeah, I'm not sure I believe you. Do you have any pics of you inside the vehicle? Perhaps if you shine a laser through cigar smoke and show only the laser being affected by the insanely high gravity, then maybe I'll believe you.

Originally posted by ThatsJustWeird
1. That makes no sense

2. Forced by who? And please don't say the government. I don't know if you've noticed but the government's (including Congress, etc.) is in the toilet. The media is having a field day in exploiting this. You guys say the media is controlled and blah blah blah, but they use every chance they get to write a negative piece about the gov. You have newsrooms booing Bush and gang, etc.

1. it dont make sense cuz you dont read.

2. what????? comedy central and people like keith oberman(sp?) is the place you hear anti govt sentiment. the media has turned a blind eye. we hear nothing of the devaluing of the dollar, NAU, the imminent crash of the west. we hear about stupid celebrities, and dumbass game shows.

Perhaps you didn't understand what I was saying?

O i got it, but i give two sh*ts

which topic have we discussed that you want to know where I've gotten my info?
(of course some stuff I've said is just plain common sense)

so your saying nearly every argument you make is based on common sense???? ive said this at least 30 times> where are your sources(facts). im not completely sure but i bet the last 10 pages of this thread you have not posted one link to your facts. but you want us to believe all youve written within those last 10 pages.

What do I think is going to happen? More of the same that's happened for the past 1000 years or so....just with better technology and a ton more people...
These are observations based on history and common sense.

nice cop out, but you got to do better than that. saying "empires are built and then they fall" is not being objective thats using vagaries. i think your afraid to admit the future is dark for the western world.

Umm....I'll go over your middle part when I find someone to decipher it

dont waste your time:/ just give up its the easier path. submit to the comming chaos that will fill your life.

Show specifically what posts lead you to believe I have ANY support

i wont do that, but what ill do the next time i catch you doing it ill point it out to you then...ok. you do it quite often. the more you post the easier my task will be.

Originally posted by Glyph_D
1. it dont make sense cuz you dont read.

No I read it, and that's impossible. It's either one or the other.

2. what????? comedy central and people like keith oberman(sp?) is the place you hear anti govt sentiment. the media has turned a blind eye. we hear nothing of the devaluing of the dollar, NAU, the imminent crash of the west. we hear about stupid celebrities, and dumbass game shows.

1. Everyone and their mother knows the dollar along with pretty much all currency is worthless. This isn't new. Read the business section of any newspaper and you will see articles on the dollar.

2. Didn't you all post a link about someone on CNN talking about the NAU?

3. Imminent crash of the west? lol
We've been hearing that from people since the 60s. Hey, if you find a legitimate source that says that this time it'll really happen then please let me know! I'll personally see to it that all news sources share the info.

O i got it, but i give two sh*ts

More like you haven't a clue as to what you're talking about.

so your saying nearly every argument you make is based on common sense???? ive said this at least 30 times> where are your sources(facts). im not completely sure but i bet the last 10 pages of this thread you have not posted one link to your facts. but you want us to believe all youve written within those last 10 pages.

Did you not see my question!!??
Stop f( )ing around and tell me what to post sources for...

nice cop out, but you got to do better than that. saying "empires are built and then they fall" is not being objective thats using vagaries. i think your afraid to admit the future is dark for the western world.

Did you not read my whole quote!!?!?!??!! WTF
You just skipped everything!!! lol!!



Anyway, I'm unfortunately not from the future so I really can't go into exact details mainly because......I HAVE NO F'ING CLUE WHAT'S GOING TO HAPPEN!!!!!
Neither do you!

SHP knows though, ask him.

Originally posted by ThatsJustWeird

Originally posted by syrinx high priest
any questions ?

Yeah, I'm not sure I believe you. Do you have any pics of you inside the vehicle? Perhaps if you shine a laser through cigar smoke and show only the laser being affected by the insanely high gravity, then maybe I'll believe you.

I have to get the color printer hooked up, then I'll post pics.

A university trained physicist might think my TM weighs billions of metric tons, and heats up to multiple times the temperature of the suns core, but GE also got around that. After multiple russian nuclear warheads landed near NYC, effectively eliminating corporate HQ in fairfiled CT, GE kept on chugging !

here's some advice. get comfortable walking shoes.

I have to go hand with gramps, I'll check with you tomorrow