Secrets of the Craft.

one persons god is not the same as another persons regardless if they call him jehova, jesus or allah.

or Bill or Fred or George or Sue.

Scholars using the Historical-Critical approach have known for over a century that the Gospels are a blend of historical remembrence and christian interpretation. Which means that not every word and deed attributed to Jesus in the gospels can actually be traced to him,
RW FUNK

Knowledge appears to make no contribution the credentials of an authority; opinions firmly
held,expressed loudly, and buttressed by ignorance are quite adequate.
RW FUNK Honest to Jesus

Originally posted by gps777
Simple Bondi your so called craft is against God

I take it you presume me to be a mason then? Is this because I defend it, if so I am Christian as well then, and Buddhist, and Satanist, and an alien…

Originally posted by gps777
Its already been explained to you that you cannot be a Christian and a Mason for (1) that they have those rituals (2) they combine all Gods into a big ugly stew and call he the Great Architect or what ever.

Christianity is full of imagery, and ritual, and your lack of knowledge, or mis-interpretation, or failure to believe what you have been told in other posts is bewildering. I have myself post in the same thread as you, and stated that a Mason believes in “ONE” god, he merely acknowledges that other men may belief in one of a different name. The use of the title the Grand Architect of the Universe and a non segregation term.

Originally posted by gps777
Seeing how you guys obviously view what i`ve written,i would like to state once and for all,God does NOT judge Masons the men any differently than anyone else.

Unfortunately by your posts it would appear that you do though. You seem to have labelled all that follow masonry, or defend it, regardless of what the actual person may be like.

Originally posted by gps777
(that includes Masons by the way)

You have made a couple of comments that contain the "includes masons" bit. You talk as if they are diseased or something, reminds me of something… A comment from the past, oh yer that includes those blacks, that includes those jews, that includes those leppers. I don’t mean to be offensive but it does seem that you have a some what closed mind, you are right and no one is going to change that in your mind.

I have enjoyed our conversations over the different threads, please believe me when I tell you a mason, as in one mason, does not believe in more than one god, a Christian mason believes the GAOTU to be the same god as you, he follows the same life as you, same rules as you and tries to be a good Christian just as you do. You cannot judge him yourself, and you cannot judge him to be wrong in his interpretation of his faith which in his mind allows him to be a mason also. Else you deem yourself to be superior of knowledge, and what was it you told me about the learned and the wise previously. It also makes you look self righteous, but I think someone else already pointed that out.

Hello all,

Im in NY and am very interested in the masons and illuminiti, does anyone have have infomation on joining. Although, I know you have to be asked to join, would like some help in this matter.

Thanks All


you can also reply to [email protected]

Originally posted by KILLERCLOWN32
Hello all,

Im in NY and am very interested in the masons and illuminiti, does anyone have have infomation on joining. Although, I know you have to be asked to join, would like some help in this matter.

Thanks All


you can also reply to [email protected]

You do not have to be asked to join Freemasonry. Quite the contrary, actually. YOU have to express interest and YOU have to ask a mason to join. As far as the Illuminati, it might be a bit hard to join because they no longer exist. What are the reasons behind your interest?

Quote: "Illuminati - it might be a bit hard to join because they no longer exist."

Well the "Old" Illuminati of Germany & France (they helped spark the French Revolution BTW) no longer exist - but Illuminati as a concept - I am not too sure about that! Secret Societies? Were do you think Bush gets all of his lines about "Liberty" from?

Have you not noticed the amount of Atheists & Communists & Politicians Addicted to POWER & Soul-less Materialist Mammon Worshiping Greedy Capitalists - that exist in the world? As the saying goes - "X" by any other name is still "X"!

Originally posted by Seraphim_Serpente
Well the "Old" Illuminati of Germany & France (they helped spark the French Revolution BTW) no longer exist - but Illuminati as a concept - I am not too sure about that! Secret Societies? Were do you think Bush gets all of his lines about "Liberty" from?

Have you not noticed the amount of Atheists & Communists & Politicians Addicted to POWER & Soul-less Materialist Mammon Worshiping Greedy Capitalists - that exist in the world? As the saying goes - "X" by any other name is still "X"!

I'm not exactly sure what you're trying to say in your second paragraph, but I do know that nobody that I know or have heard of is aware of any active group that's referred to as the Illuminati. What's more, if someone joined a masonic lodge expecting it to be like the kind of secret society you see in the movies, he'd be thoroughly disappointed.

Quote: "aware of any active group that's referred to as the Illuminati."

That is because they don't go around saying "Hey everybody we are the one & only True Illuminati Order". It is a State of Mind! It is a Philosophy! It is turning the ENTIRE WORLD & Everyone in it into your own personal little Mind Game - for your Amusement! It is about Absolute Control! It is all about PERCEPTION - Some people Perceive that XYZ is wrong in the world & they wonder why & why has it been this way for so long - can you really blame them for thinking: "This must be part of an Illuminati Agenda"? Even if they themselves are in fact contributing to the Problem!

It’s about how people Perceive themselves & how others Perceive them! I wonder how the
IMF & Council on Foreign Relations perceive themselves? I wonder how "Bush" perceives himself? Probably as the "Good Guys"!!! You see the Ironic Part to all of this is - It’s all in the "Eyes of the Beholder" & hence the Desire to control that "Perceived Image" - even if the Truth or the Reality of the Situation is in actuality much different!


[edit on 24-1-2005 by Seraphim_Serpente]

Actually ‘RedPhoenixDelta’ membership to the Freemasons is declining. It isn’t jut the Freemasons but other similar organisations are suffering the same problem. Here in the UK it as become such a problem that masons are giving open to allow the public to see inside the Temple and to explain that the order is a good thing to join. Even the membership of political parties are in decline so it seems that for whatever reason people do not want to belong to things.

I feel that the Freemasons are essentially a convivial dining club, and are not trying to take over the world as some people like to think. That said its rituals and secret modes of recognition are difficult for some people to reconcile with its social and charitable activities. It appears that there is a very different attitude towards the Craft in the USA where masons are more open about there membership than here.

The problems begun after WWII when mason saw what had happened to German Lodges under Hitler. As the Masons in this country became more private so suspicion arose in the media that they were up to no good. Now Freemasons in the police force and the judiciary are required to declare their membership of the Craft, a duty that is not incumbent upon any other fraternal order.

There are clearly problems in the USA with membership of the Craft as the use of ‘one day classes’ are used in some Grand lodges to initiate, pass and raise many hundreds of men at a time. I suspect that this decline is for more sociological reasons than here.

Originally posted by pignut
Actually ‘RedPhoenixDelta’ membership to the Freemasons is declining. It isn’t jut the Freemasons but other similar organisations are suffering the same problem. Here in the UK it as become such a problem that masons are giving open to allow the public to see inside the Temple and to explain that the order is a good thing to join. Even the membership of political parties are in decline so it seems that for whatever reason people do not want to belong to things.

Actually it is my understanding that Freemason's Hall has been giving tours for a long time, not just recently. As far as masons allowed the uninitiated to visit lodges and talk to them about the craft, that's not really a new thing either. Anytime someone has demonstrated an interest in joining the Craft, masons must have been very open and cordial about it. Otherwise, I don't see how the fraternity could ever have gotten any new candidates in the past.

As far as the decline of the fraternity is concerned, I heard an interesting theory: just like the stock market, when there is a big up-turn in prices, there is almost always an inevitable correction that follows. Not because prices are falling, but because they are returning to a more normal level. After WW2, membership in lodges and in other fraternities went through a huge increase... maybe what these organizatiuons are experiencing now is nothing more than a correction to return to more normal levels?

I feel that the Freemasons are essentially a convivial dining club, and are not trying to take over the world as some people like to think.

It is MUCH more than a social club, you have my word on this. It has a very fraternal aspect to it, as all fraternities do, but that's where the similarities end. One thing is for sure though: if masons were trying to take over the world, the fraternity would no longer be around by now.

Now Freemasons in the police force and the judiciary are required to declare their membership of the Craft, a duty that is not incumbent upon any other fraternal order.

I heard that when this happened, the actual number of masons in the gov't, courts and police were waaaay smaller than what had been previously speculated.

Originally posted by pignut
Actually ‘RedPhoenixDelta’ membership to the Freemasons is declining. It isn’t jut the Freemasons but other similar organisations are suffering the same problem. Here in the UK it as become such a problem that masons are giving open to allow the public to see inside the Temple and to explain that the order is a good thing to join.

I believe that the figures for the UK last year show that Freemasonry isn't in serious decline. Certainly, in my Province we recorded a very large rise in new members. Figures show that we had a lot more coming in than going out.

The opening up of Lodges to the general public during "Freemasonry in the Community Week" was not done so as a recruitment drive. As already stated, we are showing a growth in membership anyway, and we don't need to tout for new members.
It was done to display more openess and to show that we aren't half as secretive as some people would make us out to be.

Originally posted by Leveller

Originally posted by pignut


Actually ‘RedPhoenixDelta’ membership to the Freemasons is declining. It isn’t jut the Freemasons but other similar organisations are suffering the same problem. Here in the UK it as become such a problem that masons are giving open to allow the public to see inside the Temple and to explain that the order is a good thing to join.

I believe that the figures for the UK last year show that Freemasonry isn't in serious decline. Certainly, in my Province we recorded a very large rise in new members. Figures show that we had a lot more coming in than going out.

The opening up of Lodges to the general public during "Freemasonry in the Community Week" was not done so as a recruitment drive. As already stated, we are showing a growth in membership anyway, and we don't need to tout for new members. It was done to display more openess and to show that we aren't half as secretive as some people would make us out to be.

I am glad to see that I am wrong about the decline membership however there is still much suspicion about the freemasons.

It seems unnecessary for you to publicise your openness to the general public, after all most of it may be obtained from the internet and website and there local Public Library. It ought to be widely known that the UGLE has a permanent exhibition on the history of freemasonry in its Library open to the public. Also that it has for many years offers regular tours about the Grand Lodge complex for anybody sufficiently interested. Indeed it has often allowed the public performance of operas and other arts to be preformed in the Grand Lodge room. The Provincial Grand Lodge is listed in the Local telephone book ant the rituals (with suitable omissions) may be obtained from any good bookshop. As all of this is generally known there should be no need for further openness. However, all of this is intended to project a positive image of the Craft and counter the detractors, Freemasonry in the Community Week' was just the latest in a long line of strategies. If you go too far you may take away the only reason to join the Freemasonry......its mystery. Ironicaly thats what seems to be causing all of the oppositon so you can't win really.



[edit on 20-2-2005 by pignut]

Actually it is my understanding that Freemason's Hall has been giving tours for a long time, not just recently.

Yes you are quite correct but this was initiated to counter bad press and Masonic literature some of it quit vitriolic and all of it unjustified. It has lead to the current crisis in the Craft and several public relations exercises which have been underway for may years. Before WWII masons were sometimes seen performing a consecration on the foundation stone of some public building or other wearing full Masonic regalia. The wine was spilt, the oil poured and the corn scattered in full view of the public and civic dignitaries. It was usually a member of the royal family of some other high functionary performing the ritual but it was a Masonic ceremony. They were accepted as an integral part of society. After WWII all of this stopped and I and the Masons jealously, and I think unnecessarily, guarded their privacy. As I stated this fostered much suspicion eventually resulting in the current situation. Perhaps it isnt just publicity, perhaps the UK Freemasons are now just correcting there mistake.

Anytime someone has demonstrated an interest in joining the Craft, masons must have been very open and cordial about it. Otherwise, I don't see how the fraternity could ever have gotten any new candidates in the past.

I agree, Freemasons are just regular members of society - not seven foot tall, shape shifting, reptilian aliens with megalomaniac intentions (as some people would dearly love them to be).

After WW2, membership in lodges and in other fraternities went through a huge increase... maybe what these organizatiuons are experiencing now is nothing more than a correction to return to more normal levels?

I did not know that membersip increased after the war but my point was that the freemasons were trying to protect themselves from persecution that the German Masons had experienced but it amperes that the plan has gone horribly wrong! In any case I am informed by Leveller that membership is not in decline at all as i thougt.

I heard that when this happened, the actual number of masons in the gov't, courts and police were waaaay smaller than what had been previously speculated.

Well this just goes to show what nonsense all this political posturing is don't it. Ironically there was already legislation on the statutes that had a similar purpose but it had been repealed a few years earlier!

even the free masons do not understand truly what it is to be a mason..once again as in all secret societies and other..only the elitist truly know...so while you are all having your barbeqs and being initiated to levels of knowledge your still in the dark like most of society..

you only see the way they want us to see

you can argue this all you want..thou it will only prove you are in the dark..

thruout known human history there have two known levels of knowledge operating on this planet.one is made public for the mass of the people to see.,most of which is flawed and manipulated to control our thinking and reality we create,while the other is known to only a few,mostly in the elite levels of the brotherhoods
so if your seeking the secrets of the craft..i advise you to dig deeper than what you are being told..
trust me ,i know..and i am not in a secret society..so i do hold a key to the knowlege...i have never walked the same path as 99% of you do..
i am surprised in myself for even being on a site like this...i do find it most curious and amusing and there is some good knowledge on here

thou much of it ,like the bibles..you need to read between some lines and not take them for just what they say..

good luck in learning how to see differently the world which you have been domesticated to see

Originally posted by greenmansmind

you only see the way they want us to see

I would prefer to say ‘we believe what we want to believe’ rather than ‘we believe what they want us believe’. We do have minds of our own you know.

you are correct to some degree and then there is a degree where you are wrong..thou it is right with in the reality that helps you keep it all together
If you watch telivision read books eat the food in the market make money with a job and i can go on..and on..
you have been been programed since a child and it is also in your dna..what to believe..yes you have a mind of your own to think the way you wish..thou it is very fragmented,filled with this is red and this means stop and this is good and this is hell...
do you understand..

Geometry and numbers are the building blocks of the universe, it is in everything....masons as a group descended from a guild of stone masons would have used geometry in their work majorly..it makes sense that the symbols are geometric.

As far as I know though it does go back further than the mid evil ages..

I remember vaguely from study 10 years ago about the story of the three hirams or ....I am sure Gleamer can research this to his hearts content that can fuel his conspiracy theories through google...........

Mostly though in Australia masons build old peoples homes and help charity groups...............

Quote: "you have been been programed since a child."

Good point - thanks for bringing it up!

Originally posted by greenmansmind
even the free masons do not understand truly what it is to be a mason..once again as in all secret societies and other..only the elitist truly know...so while you are all having your barbeqs and being initiated to levels of knowledge your still in the dark like most of society..

you only see the way they want us to see

you can argue this all you want..thou it will only prove you are in the dark..

Greenguy,

How do you that we're not the "elitists" you're talking about and trying to cover this up so the unsuspecting won't suspect..... HMMMM????

Senrak...the masons on this board are all very upstanding people and would never stoop to misinformation...would they?

There is no way any one of them would hijack a thread and divert it away from something and hearing you say such a dreadful thing makes me shiver.

In fact, all through history, the masons have always written their books for the layman, never obfuscating, but ever being clear on their intent.
Besides, they're like the Rotary club...pure souls only desiring to make life easier for those less fortunate.