Secrets of the Craft.

Cotwom
I had already said and explained how you have twisted it,further you and i have already crossed paths where you have stated that Christ=Lucifer.

Its already been explained to you that you cannot be a Christian and a Mason for (1) that they have those rituals (2) they combine all Gods into a big ugly stew and call he the Great Architect or what ever.

Never once have you referred to anything i`ve written to be correct,except something ridiculous about Christians knocking on doors which they dont as far as i know,rather you lurk and try and seize a moment,i have already stated to you that it is correct it dos`nt say YES SHE SHOULD BE PUNISHED,you have failed to see that they all Christ included judged her for her sin.

You have also failed to see what the Masons were attacking me on,it is whether or not it is right for a Christian to point out that someone is in sin which is judging.

You cannot be a True Christian then.
These are proof for you from other true Christians Judging correctly if you want more do a search.

www.geocities.com...
www.teachingpages.co.uk...
misslink.org...
www.ritualabusefree.org...'t%20%20Be%20a%20Freemason.htm


and this one is even from Masons own mouths so every time you have stated you are a Christian you are deceiving yourself and everyone around you
www.freemasoninfo.ca...

God will judge you the worst because you should know better.

[edit on 16-1-2005 by gps777]

Just a note:

The story of James VI being a Mason is almost certainly only a legend. The same website quoted above comments on a related page that the story is considered apocryphal

freemasonry.bcy.ca...

This has been treated at length by Voorhis, Pike, Mackey, Coil, and the Quatuor Coronati Lodge of Research. We know that James VI issued a Charter to the Masons Company of London, which in turn chartered the four Lodges that would eventually form the first Grand Lodge in 1717. But all of the above agree that James himself was never a Mason, and that the story was invented by French Jacobites who were members of the Rose Croix Chapter of Clermont.

Originally posted by gps777

something ridiculous about Christians knocking on doors which they dont as far as i know,

I had made the comment that Jehovah's Witnesses and Mormons do go d-t-d who claim to be Christian. However I agree no group which I believe to be Christian (which does not include JW's or Mormons), no Christian group goes d-t-d. That was in reponse to your post just before to df1.

and this one is even from Masons own mouths so every time you have stated you are a Christian you are deceiving yourself and everyone around you
www.freemasoninfo.ca...

God will judge you the worst because you should know better.

I assume you only read the title of that page?

As Freemasonry is open to men of all monotheistic faiths, prayers used at the opening and closing of lodge and the initiation of candidates are offered to The Great Architect of the Universe. John Calvin (not a Mason) first coined this title for God the creator. Fundamentalists believe that this name is a substitution for Satan or the name of some composite god. As non-Christian Masons are not praying to Jesus, the fundamentalist believes that Masonic prayers are to a false god and thus their opposition to the fraternity.

Therefore to the Bible literalist, who believes all other faiths are false, the answer is most clearly No the true Christian cannot be a Freemason. However, for millions of other Christians who are more open minded with regard to their faith in Christ, their is no conflict between their religion and the fraternity.

[edit on 1/16/2005 by cotwom]

Masonic Light

I was not aware of that info regarding King James. Sorry for the misinfo.

Originally posted by gps777
Cotwom
I had already said and explained how you have twisted it,further you and i have already crossed paths where you have stated that Christ=Lucifer.

Its already been explained to you that you cannot be a Christian and a Mason for (1) that they have those rituals (2) they combine all Gods into a big ugly stew and call he the Great Architect or what ever.

Never once have you referred to anything i`ve written to be correct,except something ridiculous about Christians knocking on doors which they dont as far as i know,rather you lurk and try and seize a moment,i have already stated to you that it is correct it dos`nt say YES SHE SHOULD BE PUNISHED,you have failed to see that they all Christ included judged her for her sin.

You have also failed to see what the Masons were attacking me on,it is whether or not it is right for a Christian to point out that someone is in sin which is judging.

You cannot be a True Christian then.
These are proof for you from other true Christians Judging correctly if you want more do a search.

www.geocities.com...
www.teachingpages.co.uk...
misslink.org...
www.ritualabusefree.org...'t%20%20Be%20a%20Freemason.htm


and this one is even from Masons own mouths so every time you have stated you are a Christian you are deceiving yourself and everyone around you
www.freemasoninfo.ca...

God will judge you the worst because you should know better.

[edit on 16-1-2005 by gps777]

If you insist on preaching the bible, then read it please.
Lucifer is not Satan, lucifer =morning star=phosphorus=Venus.

I assume you are reading from the NIV version, as per some of your other posts. Look at Isaiah 14:12. NIV should say

How art thou fallen from heaven, O morning star, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, that didst lay low the nations!

Now if you look in KJV 1611 ( which I read) you will find

How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!

Now This is what the people of Israel are being told to say as a taunt towards the king of Babylon, Tiglath-pileser III.

Now take a look at Revelations 22:16

I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.

So I have shown you how Lucifer is the morning star ( not Satan, but rather Venus, the last "star" visible in the morning, due to the fact that it is a planet and thus its close proximity to the earth. and how JESUS HIMSELF says he is the morning star, thus Venus, or lucifer.

Please read your bible before taunting others, or you will be reading it, embarrassed, one random verse at a time.

[edit on 16-1-2005 by wiggy]

QUOTE
I assume you only read the title of that page?

There`s no need for a Christian to check who`s name is written in Satan`s underpants its obvious who they belong to

[edit on 16-1-2005 by gps777]

Its your beliefs that are misled. Believe what you want, but let others do the same.

Its your bible that says this, It is just you going with mis interpretations that riles me up.

Originally posted by gps777
QUOTE
I assume you only read the title of that page?

There`s no need for a Christian to check who`s name is written in Satan`s underpants its obvious who they belong to

[edit on 16-1-2005 by gps777]

EDIT: I know see this was in reference to Catwom. My apologies.


[edit on 16-1-2005 by wiggy]

Quote: "you need to be a Christian to understand the Bible which none of you are."

Keep this up - you Ignorant Fool - and there will be TROUBLE! Oh yeah - just how am I a Liar Sir? Listen in fact I am Not a Mason - but if you keep on calling people (Both Masons & Non-Masons) Liars & Satanists - you will be Chastised - I Promise! It seems to be YOU who are putting words into Jesus' mouth! May I ask just what Church you belong to? Who is you Minister?


[edit on 16-1-2005 by Seraphim_Serpente]

and not everyone who doesnt read the bible is a satanist. What about those hundreds of people studying the bible? Are you going to tell me they have to believe it to understand it?

Wiggy you can also take that last post to be referring to you,although i was speaking to Cotwom.

as for Lucifer=Christ what a joke

www.billbaileyministries.org...
sol.sci.uop.edu...
www.blessedquietness.com...
www.1john57.com...

this one explains this greats of Satan's lies at length
www.angelfire.com...

If you have been deceived by this massive lie then Satan has you.
Get a grip Lucifer=Satan Not Lucifer=Christ

Further Christ Warns of Satan can come as an Angel of light to deceive,most have good sense any way but obvious lots of people have fallen for this lie through watering down of Gods word through translations of the Bible.
dont be mislead with a lie

I understand Gleamers posts are gone from this topic, and ive had to read it twice to understand where his posts might be in between yours. If you guys have the bogus links Gleamer posted id like to check them out and see if MY naval nuke training would help me spot a fake sci website. (or even a fake SS one)

all im getting is him somehow tying in gematria/gemotry with nuclear power in some kind of weird big bang theory/ mason 3 word hidden word theory? do i have the jist of it?

oh and as far as the isiah 14, ez 28 thing. its got to be lucifer, as no human could be the cherubum of isiah 28 or stand to the right of the thone of god in isiah 14.

Originally posted by gps777
Wiggy you can also take that last post to be referring to you,although i was speaking to Cotwom.

as for Lucifer=Christ what a joke

www.billbaileyministries.org...
sol.sci.uop.edu...
www.blessedquietness.com...
www.1john57.com...

this one explains this greats of Satan's lies at length
www.angelfire.com...

If you have been deceived by this massive lie then Satan has you.
Get a grip Lucifer=Satan Not Lucifer=Christ

You can pull up all the Bible bashing links you want, but the fact remains that Lucifer does not equal Satan. They prove absolutely nothing to back your argument and are led by irrational and illogical thought, rather than the truth.

Which part of "it was a translation error" do you not understand?

lots of people have fallen for this lie through watering down of Gods word through translations of the Bible.

Oh the irony of this statement. You are one of the people who has fallen for the lie through the faulty translations. In the original text, there was no Lucifer. The name wasn't added until a couple of thousand years after the Bible was written.

To tell the truth, your superior, arrogant, pompous attitude is beginning to become tiresome. I wouldn't mind if you could display one iota of knowledge about the subject that you are preaching, but you can't even do that. Time and time again, you've proven to be ignorant. Yet you still expect others to follow your words and you insult those who question your ill thought out arguments. Like most fundamentalists, you don't have a clue.
You repeat parrot fashion the lies that you have swallowed and have the audacity to expect everyone else to swallow them too.

So dude, you go your road and I'll go mine. I prefer the road where there are no bull# artists trying to sell a Biblical god that they know absolutely jack about.

[edit on 16-1-2005 by Leveller]

good post leveller. Can i ask the question again how can us masons be devil worshippers or satanists as you call us when we have an open bible in our meetings, is an open bible not one of the key fundamentals of christianity. As for this stew about us making all gods and lumping them together how does any of the anti masons know that one persons god is not the same as another persons regardless if they call him jehova, jesus or allah.

Cotwom
I had already said and explained how you have twisted it,further you and i have already crossed paths where you have stated that Christ=Lucifer.

I have no intention of rehashing this issue with you.

Its already been explained to you that you cannot be a Christian and a Mason for (1) that they have those rituals (2) they combine all Gods into a big ugly stew and call he the Great Architect or what ever.

The Masons do no such thing. The Great Architect of the Universe is a title describing God from a non-Mason John Calvin. Masons do not combine Gods.

Never once have you referred to anything i`ve written to be correct,except something ridiculous about Christians knocking on doors which they dont as far as i know,

I've already explained this.

rather you lurk and try and seize a moment,i have already stated to you that it is correct it dos`nt say YES SHE SHOULD BE PUNISHED,you have failed to see that they all Christ included judged her for her sin.

I admit I overlooked you admitting that Christ did not say that. I apologize.

from a prior post
Christ judged her a sinner so did they,to put her to death would also be a sin,if she did`nt repent of her sin it will lead her to eventual death.The wages of sin is death no?

from Deuteronomy 17:5,6 KJV
Deu 17:5 Then shalt thou bring forth that man or that woman, which have committed that wicked thing, unto thy gates, even that man or that woman, and shalt stone them with stones, till they die.
Deu 17:6 At the mouth of two witnesses, or three witnesses, shall he that is worthy of death be put to death; but at the mouth of one witness he shall not be put to death.

Showing where adultery is worthy of death as commanded by God in OT

from KJV
Lev 20:10 And the man that committeth adultery with another man's wife, even he that committeth adultery with his neighbor's wife, the adulterer and the adulteress shall surely be put to death.

Now although the subject mentioned in Deuteronomy is not adultery, when a man or woman has committed such a sin, God commanded them to be put to death.
And because Christ had not died yet that old law was still in effect.

You have also failed to see what the Masons were attacking me on,it is whether or not it is right for a Christian to point out that someone is in sin which is judging.

Here is what the Bible says...

various quotes from KJV
Mat 5:25; Mat 7:1-2; Luk 6:37; Rom 14:3; Rom 14:10; Rom 14:13; 1 Co 4:5; 1Co 6:2(refers to the end times); Jam 5:9
In other instantces which the word “judge” is used it states that God or Christ is the Judge of all.

You cannot be a True Christian then.
These are proof for you from other true Christians Judging correctly if you want more do a search.

I have done my research. And as before, I am now done with with this line of discussion. This was not supposed to be a religious thread and I apologize to all for helping this go on.

I also have no intention of offending any no-christians on this board. I am merely showing this info according to the Christian faith concerning other Christians.

I will not comment anymore on this matter on this thread.

[edit on 1/16/2005 by cotwom]

You know I have noticed a certain pattern. It seems as if it is the Fundamentalists out there who believe in the certain existence of Satan most of all! I mean they can't stop talking about it - Satan this & Satan that - it is like a schoolgirl with a crush! Perhaps the Fundamentalists are the Real "Satanists"?

now that you mention it...it seems you are exactly right...except one thing
a "satanist" technically worships Satan. Believing there is a Satan doesn't mean you worship him, the same way believing there are aliens doesn't mean u worship them and are an "Alienist".

Seeing how you guys obviously view what i`ve written,i would like to state once and for all,God does NOT judge Masons the men any differently than anyone else.

And here is the reason.Everyone needs to be saved born again if that offends sorry though its for your own good and a duty of mine to tell you,most here would say i`ve done a horrible job at it,I`m positive you would do a better job than me if any of you saw what i`ve been trying to say,that is, Christ is the Lord and ALL are sinners myself included.

John 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him,"Verily,verily,I say unto thee,Except a man be born again,he cannot see the Kingdom of God.

and here`s how to become one and recieve him and all of his gifts.

www.hightruth.com...

As far as the Lucifer=Christ lie,if you still dont understand after reading this
thats your problem entirely,and the most interesting part that hit me was the last letter that should be eye opening to all.And should prove to some Satan exists even through bible translation,which is much easier than proving God does only you can do that by asking him.

This will be my last post here i`ve said what i`ve said albeit some things i could have said better, thank you all for alot of interesting conversations which has strengthened me and given me higher faith and dedication to wards the Lord Jesus Christ.

I will stay on ATS from time to time if ever you want a chat please do.(u2u).I also give you my word i will not state you have to anyone on the net.


www.jesus-is-lord.com...



[edit on 16-1-2005 by gps777]

I will agree with you on the being saved part. I believe you must accept Jesus Christ as your Saviour, confess of your sins, be baptized, and after this, try to stay on the straight and narrow. However I do not see how being a Freemason will go against this, as long as you do not misconstrue the meanings, and begin to worship Hiram Abif as your lord and Saviour ( I doubt this happens).

The whole lucifer thing is just a misunderstanding
If you read it, Lucifer is not a noun, nor a name, but an adjective. Its just a description to mean morning star. Before satans fall from grace, he could be compared to the morning star, almost on the level that jesus is held today. After Satans fall from grace, he could no longer be compared to the morning star, as he held no place of power next to god. But Jesus Does, and he of the morning star, and he states this.

If you read the NIV, I urge you not to abandon it, but to use it for inspiration and light reading, but keep a nice KJV 1611 study bible around for the deeper thinking.

Best of luck on your ventures, and let the lords word be a lamp unto your feet, and a light unto your heart.
Vada con il Dio
-William



[edit on 16-1-2005 by wiggy]