Originally posted by Mizar
I want to comment on the "Spreading the Gospel" thing. Yes, we do try to spread the godpel because we believe that through it you have the greatest chance of being saved. BUT trying to spread the Gospel over the internet is the most absured thing. Jesus taught that the greatest way to spread the gospel was through your own actions of kindless and love to your fellow man.

The same belief was probably true when television came out. Spreading the Gospel through the air waves? Absurd! Yet now there are multiple Christian television networks reaching millions and changing people's lives every day. The radio was the same way. Now, today, we have ministry stations that play national messages throughout the day, and we have K-Love, spereading the Gospel through music throughout the world. The internet is just another medium of communication, to deny it's use for sharing information would be to deny the whole point of the web -- the spread of information.

quote: Why are you so afraid of hearing "under God" in the pledge and reading "In God We Trust" on your money? If you don't care about something, it's pretty easy to ignore. If you're running from it, afraid, or hate it, then it's a little more difficult to ignore. What is it about God that frightens/angers you so much?

it is not "God" that bothers me. it is when people like billy, and pat, and jessie
etc,etc, insist it must be their god.

to this i reply when you can decide amoung yourselves who is right then return.
* side note* the black robes were told this same thing about 300 years ago
and they still havent come back.

in 100 years the minority will be so small it will be known as a cult. soon enough i believe the religion will fade, the teachings will be lost...the only thing surviving will be a manuscript (the bible) that has no place in the lives of people living in 100 years time.

it is interesting that the Jesus seminar is discussing this very thing, and how the bible should be reshaped to fit today.

We have a new covenant with God with the birth, death and resurrection of Christ

one thing that has always puzzeled me, in a religion that purports to follow the" teachings "of Jesus , in all the creeds of what must be believed there is nothing about his teachings or his life. only his birth , death, and rising. completely skips his life.

Yet now there are multiple Christian television networks reaching millions and changing people's lives every day.

and bilk gullible people out of billions at the same time.
as i recall it was Jesus' teaching to ask only for what was needed for that day.

Eskimo: "If I did not know about God and sin, would I go to hell?"
Priest: "No, not if you did not know."
Eskimo: "Then why did you tell me?"
Annie Dillard

We have a new covenant with God with the birth, death and resurrection of Christ.

Ahh yes, the kinder, gentler God, who no longer does personal appearances.... Yep, should have seen that one coming, hehe...

You should seriously hope your Gospel is wrong though...I've read the end of that book, and it isn't a happy ending...

You're looking at only 144,000 being saved, and to be in that group, you've got to be 1) a virgin male, 2) descended from the 12 tribes of Isreal, 3) you still have to live through the opening of all 7 seals... That isn't a pretty picture you guys have painted for yourselves.....

Gazrok, I think you're going to have to reread Revelations if you're really interested. And when you're done, you'll want to read through Isiah and Jerimiah, too. There's a lot more to it than that. For starters, the 144,000 are jews who will convert and become evangelical about their faith, spreading throughout the world saving people.

There's also the rapture controversy, which is an in-house discussion trying to figure out if it's going to preceed the Apocalypse. If that's the case, we'll be ok, it's you guys who have to hope them 144,000 get to you and convince you of the Truth before you get taken out. No where does it say it is too late to be saved...until the mark of the beast comes along. Y'all get that to buy an sell, then you're lost. Until then, you can always accept Christ in your heart. I'm not really sure how that whole mark thing will make it to where you can no longer accept Christ, but there it is...

yeah, that definetly isn't what is supposed to happen... But, back to the person who quoted me on saying its the power starved people in christianity that did it, not christianity... i did say that basically with Islam, in the post i had above it where i said a few extremists are out to hurt or kill, not exact words of course.

Originally posted by Ryanp5555
yeah, that definetly isn't what is supposed to happen... But, back to the person who quoted me on saying its the power starved people in christianity that did it, not christianity... i did say that basically with Islam, in the post i had above it where i said a few extremists are out to hurt or kill, not exact words of course.

And unfortunately, our side has those extremists, too. People who, in the name of God, trying to prevent murder, go a head and murder abortion doctors or people in abortion clinics. We all have our extremist psychopaths. I really enjoyed the South Park that delt with the South Park flag. Thought it really showed this point well.

It just so happens, though, that the muslim extremists are at war with western civilization. As a result, they're getting a larger lime light than the psychos who murder in the name of Christ.

As I understand it the true Christian behaviour is one of tolerance and compassion.

I have, over the years, had the good fortune to have met people from all walks of life. From my Mohican clad time spent, for example, in Trafalgar Square demonstrating my personal displeasure at the Poll Tax to getting to know a kind couple who live on a £2 million estate.

Through any travels I have enjoyed, I have met both good and bad. Some classing themselves quite proudly as Pagans, some declaring themselves to be Christians.

One of the most genuinely kind hearted, compassionate people I have ever known has no 'faith', no belief of any kind as far as I know. If I amount to half the man he is I shall end my days more than content. Another is a Christian, his attitude is one of true selflessness, offering help and friendship at every turn, to know him is a humbling experience and I feel very much privileged to call him a friend.

Why do people hate Christians? I am not sure. It would seem apparent to me that to tarnish an entire people in such a fashion is completely nonsensical.

Why do people hate some Christians? Perhaps because they feel anger at being approached without request and preached at. The same way that I dislike Jehovah's witnesses or political representatives knocking at my door without invitation, or even companies cold calling me at home. I do not though automatically deem this dislike as cause to hate all Jehovah's witnesses, politically minded people or telemarketers, it would be illogical for me to make any such judgement.

Jack

I've read it, re-read it, and then read it some more. I stand by exactly what I said before, as that is how your book states it. While the order of events is a little disorganized in Revelation, I definitely remember seeing that the number to be saved 1) was to be after the horrors unleashed, and 2) result in the Rapture and joining Jesus in Heaven, not staying on Earth. Still, that's a mighty small number for such a kind and loving God, eh? According to your own book, he's going to be going back to his fire and brimstone roots before all is said and done....

Luckily for all of us, it's all a load of bunk...

Though the impact of Wyrmwood may not be far off the mark, as such an event could make us go the way of the dino....

I've often why nobody's ever made a horror movie following the scripture fairly closely of Revelation. With the special effects of today, such a flick could be truly terrifying....

[edit on 30-12-2004 by Gazrok]

Perhaps then there is a difference here between 'hating' Christians and 'hating' certain aspects of Christianity.

A couple of years back now I met a South African who was a very religious man. I forget exactly what 'type' of Christian he was, but he seemed pleasent enough. He was incidentally the son of the village preacher/priest/vicar (sorry, I'm not too clued up on religion and titles) out in SA. We got talking and the conversation flowed onto the topic of religion.

In the end he reluctantly conceded that unless she accepted not only Christianity, but his particular flavour of Christianity, my very young daughter was doomed to spend eternity damned. As you can imagine I was somewhat displeased with this revelation. More than anger though I truly felt sad for him.

But my displeasure was without doubt not as disturbing to me as his discomfort in admitting such a thing. He wasn't a bad or cruel man, he was a compassionate individual. We parted on good terms and I left him to consider his standpoint. I have no idea what verdict he reached.

Why though should I hate him? He gained no pleasure out of what he told me, indeed he seemed quite reticent to voice his conclusion. He didn't gloat about him recieving salvation and me not being that fortunate.

Here we have someone who genuinely believed very strongly in the Bible, to the extent as previously mentioned. In my opinion he was wrong in his opinion. Where is the reason for hate? Why should I hate him for his beliefs?

One of the things I really used to dislike about Christianity was it's propensity, as far as I had witnessed, to enter peoples lives at times of trouble. I viewed this with a great distaste quite in agreement with Karl Marx statement of religion being the opium of the masses. Until it was I came to the conclusion that it was of no concern of mine when or where a person found their faith, or indeed how a person found any precious comfort in this harsh life, unless I thought it detrimental to them. After all, as I have in my signature:

Never deprive someone of hope. It may be all he has.

If someone finds comfort and strength through their faith, and in doing so calls him or herself a Christian why should they be hated? As I said before, do not presume to come to me and attempt to force any kind of doctrine upon me… Christian or otherwise.

Jack

I am not sure you should be so thin skinned.

Religion is a choice, a personal belief. I consider myself a Christian and yet I hold no truth's about it.

This board was created to embrace difference. The fundamental ethos of the Bible is understand it's perception of purity, monotheism, and forgiveness.

Christians in olden times, brought about a lot of death and destruction without hesitation or applying principles of common sense. This is a fact!

As we get older, as individuals, the world becomes smaller and the sense of right and wrong meld into a vision of senselessness. Meaning that knowledge of the world and those of it in it is paramount to making sense of our pathetic little lives. Giving way to those who need it, the support and peace that some religions offer their believers.

Hate is derived from love. It is impossible to truely hate something without knowing love for the same.

Given that, others perceptions and expressions are most probably baseless when it comes to condemning Christianity.

I tried reading all the posts on this thread but most were droning on about the things that they percieved about your statement.

As did I......

Basically i am referring to the ones on this board... It seems that the majority of the people on this board tend to want to soley focus in on Christianity to try and destroy it. Sure, not everything is correct, the bible wasnt in the hands of the least corrupt when it was written, and it was written by man. But some people on this board, such as someone like Amadeus, are out to soley try and disprove, or bash Christians. It is getting old and ridiculous. Listen i dont care if you dont want to believe that Jesus was the savior, and God, but the question is why do you choose to fight those who say that he is. You dont focus in on Islam, the religion that has parts that could be interpretted as preaching terrorism, instead you attack christianity, and some people even try to say its God's fault that man went on the crusades, when that is obviously a lie. I am just so sick of you people pulling this crap. I will tell you what, anyone who can read Isiah, then read the Gospel, and still NOT be convinced that there is a God, and that Jesus was the Messiah, is lying to themselves. No matter WHAT religion you are. Muslim, Christian, Jewish, Aethist, Budhist, ANY form, i promise.

I'm not sure what your point is; in fact, I'm not sure you have on at all. If you have a problem with people discussing the tenets of Christianity, then you are obliged with the moral choice of not partaking in those discussions. There is no reason for you to get get angry over productive diatribe savvy Christianity; this is uncalled for.

I'm not sure of you are well aware of this fact, but, majority of ATS users come from a Christian background, and the majority of the west preaches Christianity, thus, this makes Christianity a predominate clout in western society: people will discuss a creed that dictates thier lifestyle.

The Gospels don't prove the existence of God, I'm not sure what logica is behind this remark, but I'm sure you're insuating a categorical imperative; said scriptures are not truths in - inthemselves..

As to why this thread was not moved from ATS is also beyond me; I'm not sure what the conspiracy behind this is, does anyone else?

Mr. Amadeus, from what I have spoken to him in private, is a very educated man/women [sadly, I never asked his/her gender] and obviously took his leave after not being able to converse with someone on par with this train of thought. I, for one, enjoyed his ' tautologies ', as you have deemed, and found them highly educational; however, I am also one who finds a more objective and skeptical stance on religious ethos. You, though, are to intoxicated, as seems evident, in Christianism, and take exception to many of this posts; if this is the case, then, once again, you have the moral obligation to simply not participate in any discussions revolving around his ' tautologies '.

Simple as that.

Deep

The rise of secularism, femnasim. Whats happen is many parents have turned againist christianity and embrace secularism. Therefor bringing up a new age of children who are brough up on secularism. The reality is these new agers are condition to what they feel. Once christanity is mentioned to them, they see rules and relugaltions and depise it automatically. Then you have these new agers learning histroy of church and it's witch burning and it's invasion into israel. This makes the secularists pissed, how dare you burn a witch, she has the right to do what she want's, oh they kill someone many people in the the crusades oh christanity is bad!!!.

They still haven't open the bible and they hate christianity with passion. Then you have the same people on tv, watching the Muslims behead people and commit suicde attacks. They all generalize and say see how these religion are all crazy people. Their lack of understanding of those religions put Islam on the same level as christanity. Which is not the case.

I have friend who was brought up on this secularist western culture, rock, metal music and all. He has the same mentality, doesn't like religion because of rules and his mother also western secular system.

What we are seeing is a new religon on misty and it's called secularism. Instead of reading a book it demands you write the book.

I'm a christian, or better say it a follower of jesus. I've read the bible and many passagers. I'll have to say it has shaped my mentality. It is very moral book, the most moral book i've ever read. The passagers were most secularist complain can be found levcuites, but those laws and regulations where meant for the jewish people, not secularists, muslims and outsiders.

The reality is christian's are really people who follow jesus. Christanity was insight to the people, not a controled ideology.

I'll say children of america are better off with the bible then mtv and hollywood secularism.

For the person that said muslims never invaded his country. Well england has always been safe heaven in europe from muslim invaders.
IT was the spanish and the serbs that kept out islam out of europe and made sure of the saferty of rest of europe.

To hate christianity is really to hate something that has done nothing wrong.
The pope's bishops, leaders of the church are not christianity, the word of jesus is christianity.

He didn't call for people behead people, ransom people, kidnapp people, burn witches or kill in his name.

ready the gospels and deny ignorance.

I suspect the anti- christ will use these secularists, to hunt down future christians in the coming war's. Kepp the propandga up,...christians bad, they burned a few witches and want to reduce your freedom. destroy them teh anti-christ states.


I THINK WHAT SECULARS HATE IS THAT CHRISTIANS TRUST IN JESUS. SONE HOW SUB-CONIUSLY THEY ARE ALLIED WITH EVIL. MAKE UP ALL BASELESS CLAIMS ON HOW CHRISTANITY CAUSES SO MANY WARS.

[edit on 31-12-2004 by Thinker]

Children better of with Jesus than MTV and Hollywood....I most definately agree with you on that!!

I don't think nayone here actualluy "hate" Christians

As to raising children...I am now raising my granddaughter, the was I raised my kids...they are exposed to Christianity and paganism...and like my children, on is Christian, the two are pagan, she will make up her own mind as an adult....as it should be, religion is a very personal choice!

Originally posted by LadyV
Children better of with Jesus than MTV and Hollywood....I most definately agree with you on that!!

I don't think nayone here actualluy "hate" Christians

Truth rests in israel it's people and it's influence. I don't see any other way of life "aka religion" coming close to it.

Just think about this the jews returned from nothing, to their homeland in 2000 years. Not one nation has ever been reborn like that. This states that jewish people are special and their religon is very important.

[edit on 31-12-2004 by Thinker]

All I can say for Gazork is.

If may say that BUT thats not what the church believes. That is not oue Esthological Hope of the Catholic relgion. The church analyzes scripture for a long time and when the meaning of it is apparaent they release it in a form of a statment in the CCC. The bible is a broad book and not meant for any one person to rad and interpret it their own way. The true meanings of the scriptures can be easily distorted. Thats why the church releases offical statments of this is what this means. Now I know you are going to say "Well if I can intrepret it wrong then whats stoping them?" and thats where you have the faith issue. You have to believe that what is being told to you is correct and hoas only been accomplished through the help of God. "What if your wrong though?" God doesn;t hold us liaible then.

My sugestions iff you are truly intrested in the Catholic church's beliefs is to go to you local Catholic supplies store and pick up a Catholic encyploeida and CCC and look up the stuff you are intrestied in.

again, those are actions of an individual, who would have done so with any religion as a cover, and that is NOT what christianity teaches. And to the person who challenges what im saying, we are saying the exact same things, just not understanding each other, trust me.

all hail the god "spell checker"

Originally posted by Thinker
The rise of secularism, femnasim. Whats happen is many parents have turned againist christianity and embrace secularism. Therefor bringing up a new age of children who are brough up on secularism. The reality is these new agers are condition to what they feel. Once christanity is mentioned to them, they see rules and relugaltions and depise it automatically. Then you have these new agers learning histroy of church and it's witch burning and it's invasion into israel. This makes the secularists pissed, how dare you burn a witch, she has the right to do what she want's, oh they kill someone many people in the the crusades oh christanity is bad!!!.

They still haven't open the bible and they hate christianity with passion. Then you have the same people on tv, watching the Muslims behead people and commit suicde attacks. They all generalize and say see how these religion are all crazy people. Their lack of understanding of those religions put Islam on the same level as christanity. Which is not the case.

I have friend who was brought up on this secularist western culture, rock, metal music and all. He has the same mentality, doesn't like religion because of rules and his mother also western secular system.

What we are seeing is a new religon on misty and it's called secularism. Instead of reading a book it demands you write the book.

I'm a christian, or better say it a follower of jesus. I've read the bible and many passagers. I'll have to say it has shaped my mentality. It is very moral book, the most moral book i've ever read. The passagers were most secularist complain can be found levcuites, but those laws and regulations where meant for the jewish people, not secularists, muslims and outsiders.

The reality is christian's are really people who follow jesus. Christanity was insight to the people, not a controled ideology.

I'll say children of america are better off with the bible then mtv and hollywood secularism.

For the person that said muslims never invaded his country. Well england has always been safe heaven in europe from muslim invaders.
IT was the spanish and the serbs that kept out islam out of europe and made sure of the saferty of rest of europe.

To hate christianity is really to hate something that has done nothing wrong.
The pope's bishops, leaders of the church are not christianity, the word of jesus is christianity.

He didn't call for people behead people, ransom people, kidnapp people, burn witches or kill in his name.

ready the gospels and deny ignorance.

I suspect the anti- christ will use these secularists, to hunt down future christians in the coming war's. Kepp the propandga up,...christians bad, they burned a few witches and want to reduce your freedom. destroy them teh anti-christ states.


I THINK WHAT SECULARS HATE IS THAT CHRISTIANS TRUST IN JESUS. SONE HOW SUB-CONIUSLY THEY ARE ALLIED WITH EVIL. MAKE UP ALL BASELESS CLAIMS ON HOW CHRISTANITY CAUSES SO MANY WARS.

[edit on 31-12-2004 by Thinker]

Hehe...so now along with hating other religions, Christians hate secularism, feminism and rock music. Interesting how you mention that the serbs and spanish kept islam out of europe. From what I heard, muslims were well settled in spain along with christians and jews, writing books, learning, gaining knowledge, when the Archbishop (not sure about the terminology) endorsed by the queen attacked and burnt entire libraries of books and murdered hundreds of muslims, razed entire villages, women, children and all. What knowledge we have now of Math, Science, etc., is largely based on the surviving books.
I'd be interested to know how "Islam is not on the same level as Christianity".
I don't hate Christians. As you say, there is nothing to hate about people with "true Christian spirit". I just hate Ignorance and Ignorant hatred.

[edit on 31/12/04 by babloyi]