Christianity cracked

Originally posted by alienreality
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If someone wishes to find flaws in Christ, a good question to ask is Why are they doing that? Are they hoping to invalidate his mission on earth? There are a lot of reasons why people would do this, one of which is to create the situation where they think they won't need to be accountable for their life here on earth..

If a person is honest with what they do, and honest with their own life, they will look for better answers than those..

I am certainly not trying to invalidate Jesus message, as i have always accepted his message was about unity, selflessness and equality. I did find the miracles hard to swallow though or that he was literally a superman on earth, non of that was important to me anyway. Even as a kid I didn't accept the superman Jesus as being real and certainly to me the message of Jesus was the important part and not his supposed divinity or superpowers.

My rejection of the superhuman Jesus was not helped by the "revelation" that Santa Clause is not a real person. In fact i have thought about that many times, how our culture lies to kids about a superman who can go all over the world in one night, materialize down chimneys etc...and the lie is told to us by our most trusted parents, who are coerced into telling the lie about a superman by our society. I am sure, this is a satanic lie, to destroy belief in Jesus. Also Santa=Satan . There are other things about Christmas that pervert Christianity but that's another thread, in fact ill start on that now, as I have gone off topic too often already.

reply to post by TheBlackHat


I didn't feel that you were trying to invalidate his message or mission, I got the sense that you were just asking serious and hard questions because you wish to discuss it, and I am glad you are asking and speaking about it, because it shows you are thinking about many important things..

I know what you mean when talking about the santa clause lie.. I grew up in a Christian home with very nice parents and well meaning and honest parents, but they were victims of all the same lies in society, and not breaking out of that shell, because maybe the brainwashing was so successful..

I have found that some of the "best" so called Christians become rather proud of themselves and start believing they have achieved special status with God, and we see evidence of this all the time in the media and other happenings.. I have made the same idiotic mistake once many years ago and some of my relatives have a bad case of that spiritual illness, and it doesn't neccessarily mean they are a bad person, but humility is definitely lacking sometimes.. It really is a very narrow path...

I even discovered when talking to one of the several pastors of our church that he did not really even have a relationship with God or Christ, and from speaking to him, it seemed that he might not even believe Christ even exists, but he got the degree and makes a decent living being a pastor!... Things are sometimes even more nutty than fiction that's for sure... I could be wrong about that pastor, but that was what it actually seemed like..

Speaking of miracles, I would not even be alive right now if it wasn't for a miracle that saved my life one day in 1997..just mentioning it that they still do happen sometimes..

reply to post by TheBlackHat

In fact i doubt Jesus ever really claimed to be special or chosen

Blomberg's rigorous investigation into the historical reliability of the gospel accounts, applying the 'test of authenticity' to remarkable and sober conclusions:

"Criticism has already gone a long way towards reaffirming the authenticity of the sayings tradition." These include:" the parables... teachings on the kingdom...his concern for those rejected and looked down on by the various Jewish sects: the poor, 'sinners and tax-collectors', women, lepers , Samaritans, and even Gentiles; his frequent conflict with various Jewish authorities over the interpretation and application of the Law, especially the Sabbath regulations ; and...demands for discipleship, involving total commitment to himself."

Blomberg, The Historical Reliability of the Gospels. 2nd edn. pp.313-4.

Bloomberg adds, "the collection of sayings in which Jesus refers to himself as the Son of Man" and "the 'Son of God' " are accepted as authentic under the 'criteria of authenticity' as well as the miracle stories.

This naming of himself the 'Son of Man' is a title that refers back to Daniel 7:13, it is a messianic prophecy where Jesus is referring to himself as the Ancient of Days who will rule over all of Earth.

Jesus said, "I am from above...not of this world", the Father "has granted the Son to have life in Himself and has given Him to execute judgements", "the words that I speak to you are spirit and they are life", "I am the Alpha and the Omega, The Beginning and the End, I will give of the fountain of the water of life freely to him who thirsts" "and I will raise him up on the last day"
- John 8:23; 5:26-7; Revelation 21:6; John 6:44

The fact that no body else has ever risen from the grave in 2000 years, only proves that nobody believes that its possible

Perhaps you should read this -
Keener, Craig S. Miracles: The Credibility of New Testament Accounts. Kindle ed. Vol. 1 & 2, Grand Rapids, Michigan: Baker Academic, 2011.

It is a massive documentation of miracles that have occurred over the centuries, the common element is that it is not people doing it in their own power but rather through the power of Jesus (typically by praying to Him).

A plethora attested in plain sight of modern medical doctors (Kindle Locations 8352-90, 8876-950.)

reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1

Jesus didn't literally walk on water or rise from the dead, that's a bit ridiculous in my opinion.

Habermas surveying trends in scholarly resurrection thought over 30 years to 2005, documents: the early followers of Jesus definitely thought they saw the risen Jesus in some sense, a view holding almost unanimous critical scholarly consent ; hallucinations, illusions or similar naturalist proposals are vastly rejected as explanatorily insufficient ; 75% of scholars deduce as historical fact, Jesus' tomb empty ; and women recorded as initial resurrected Jesus witnesses in all 4 gospels is easily the most popular argument supporting the gospels' declarations as 'the Gospels probably would not have dubbed them as chief witnesses unless they actually did attest to the event' with Osiek's contribution cited which establishes compelling historicity in patriarchal settings .

Habermas, "Resurrection Research from 1975 to the Present: What Are Critical Scholars Saying?." p.140-1, 150.; Carolyn Osiek, "The Women at the Tomb: What Are the Doing There?," HTS Theological Studies 53, no. 1&2 (December 1997). p.116.

Craig , overlaying McCullagh's framework for justifying historical hypotheses , scrutinizes the rival hypotheses of 'conspiracy' , 'apparent death' , 'wrong tomb', and 'displaced body' showing all logically absurd and summarising the current scholarly position on each respectfully: completely given up; almost completely abandon; garnered virtually no support, dead at conception; and no scholars defend it today.

William Lane Craig, "Accounting for the Empty Tomb," America 208, no. 11 (April 2013). pp.12-4, 15-7.

Critic Lüdemann acrimoniously concludes,

"we can certainly say to be historical is that there were resurrection appearances in Galilee (and in Jerusalem) soon after Jesus' death...these appearances cannot be denied."

Gerd Lüdemann, What Really Happened to Jesus: A Historical Approach to the Resurrection, trans. John Bowden (Louisville, Kentucky: Westminster John Knox Press, 1996).p.81. Similar assessments amongst scholars are the norm. Ed Sanders declares that the "equally secure facts [indicate that Jesus' disciples] saw him (in what sense is not certain) after his death... .Thereafter his followers saw him."(E. P. Sanders, The Historical Figure of Jesus (London: Penguin, 1993). pp.10, 13).

Lee's theses refutes Lüdemann's 'subjective visionary experience' explanation versus resurrection however, through unbiased probability analysis, determining 98.44% probability for resurrection based on the evidence, versus 1.56% epistemic hallucination probability.

Yong-Won Lee, "Resurrection Vs. Hallucination: An Argument for the Historicity of the Resurrection of Jesus in Terms of Probabilistic Analysis" (Dissertation & Theses, Southern Baptist Theological Seminary, 2009). pp.22-33, 146-54.; Richard Swinburne has previously used Bayes' Theorem as well to estimate the probability that Jesus arose from the dead, concluding it then a 97% probability. Swinburne's claim has criticized by Michael Martin (1998), with Stephen Davis (1999) replying to Martin's argument concluding "Richard Swinburne has previously used Bayes' Theorem as well to estimate the probability that Jesus arose from the dead, concluding it then a 97% probability. Swineburne's claim has criticized by Michael Martin (1998), with Stephen Davis (1999) replying to Martin's argument concluding "the probability great but very much greater" (Licona, "The Historicity of the Resurrection of Jesus: Historiographical Considerations in the Light of Recent Debates." p.76 + footnote 301).

Embarrassing admissions of Jesus' supernatural power and miracle performing made public by Schäfer in uncensored Jewish 5th century Babylonian Talmud, furthering the case beyond reach.

"The mesit is someone who seduces an individual to idolatry, whereas the maddiah is understood as someone who publicly entices many into idolatry. Jesus, the Talmud tells us, was both: he not only enticed some individual but all of Israel to become idolaters. To make things worse, he was also a sorcerer in the sense defined more precisely in the Mishna: someone who really practices magic and not just “holds people’s eyes” (ha-'ohez et ha'enayim), that is, who deludes people by optical deception (which is permitted)"
Schäfer, Jesus in the Talmud. Kindle Locations 1325-1330.

Thus, the Rabbinic authorities creatively misrepresent Jesus' miracles as sorcery, but in doing so confirm that what he did was real and not optical illusion under the specific legal definitions in use.

Keener's monumental cataloguing of miracles performed through Jesus, a plethora attested in plain sight of modern medical doctors , one could wonder why Jesus' supernatural credibility is doubted.

Keener, Miracles: The Credibility of New Testament Accounts, 1 & 2. Kindle Locations 8352-90, 8876-950.

Critical NT scholars recognise the resurrection's significance, equated to God's endorsement of Jesus and the gospels , a transformational event leading to other biblical teachings 'often accepted more-or-less-directly' .

Nigel M. Watson, "Willi Marxsen's Approach to Christology," The Expoisitory Times 97, no. 2 (1985).pp.39-40.; Lyle K. Weiss, "The Public Significance of the Bodily Resurrection of Jesus Christ" (Dissertation & Theses, St. Mary's Seminary and University, 2007). pp.49-66, 79-88.; Gary R. Habermas, "Resurrection Research from 1975 to the Present: What Are Critical Scholars Saying?," Journal for the Study of the Historical Jesus 3, no. 2 (2005). p.145.

So I have just proved the resurrection and miracles as a historical fact....enjoy

"It is not clear why historiography should not in principle be able to speak about Jesus' resurrection as the explanation that is best established" the "phenomenon undeniably attested by the New Testament, rips a great hole in history, a hole the size and shape of the Resurrection"

Wolfhart Pannenberg, Jesus - God and Man, trans. Lewis L. Wilkins and Duane A. Priebe, 2nd ed. (Philadelphia, Pennsylvania: Westminster Press, 1977). p.109.; Charles F. D. Moule, The Phenomenon of the New Testament: A Inquiry into the Implications of Certain Features of the New Testament (London: S.C.M. Press, 1967). p.3.

Licona confirms historians are now taking miracle claims more seriously as no sound priori or a posteriori prohibitions exist.

Licona, "The Historicity of the Resurrection of Jesus: Historiographical Considerations in the Light of Recent Debates." pp.95-138.; Keener supports these findings particularly addressing Hume (Craig S. Keener, Miracles: The Credibility of New Testament Accounts, Kindle ed., vol. 1 & 2 (Grand Rapids, Michigan: Baker Academic, 2011).Kindle Locations 3280-5012).

They had 20+ years between Jesus' death and the writing of the first gospel, more than enough time for TPTB of the time to make them up and insert them into his story.

The creed statement in 1 Corinthians 15 originates between 6-12 months after the resurrection According to NT scholars Larry Hurtardo, Bart Ehrman, Richard Bauckham and James D. G. Dunn.

1 Corinthians 15:3-4 (NKJV) For I delivered to you first of all that which I also received: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, and that He was buried, and that He rose again the third day according to the Scriptures

Your suggestion that the resurrection story was made up decades later is opposed to what the scholars says and the resurrection and the miracles are historically well attested.

I would suggest have a good look through this theses:

Licona, Michael R. "The Historicity of the Resurrection of Jesus: Historiographical Considerations in the Light of Recent Debates." Disseration & Theses, University of Pretoria, 2008.

and/or getting hi s book

Originally posted by JesuitGarlic
reply to post by TheBlackHat

 

In fact i doubt Jesus ever really claimed to be special or chosen

Blomberg's rigorous investigation into the historical reliability of the gospel accounts, applying the 'test of authenticity' to remarkable and sober conclusions:

Bloomberg adds, "the collection of sayings in which Jesus refers to himself as the Son of Man" and "the 'Son of God' " are accepted as authentic under the 'criteria of authenticity' as well as the miracle stories.

This naming of himself the 'Son of Man' is a title that refers back to Daniel 7:13, it is a messianic prophecy where Jesus is referring to himself as the Ancient of Days who will rule over all of Earth.

Jesus said, "I am from above...not of this world", the Father "has granted the Son to have life in Himself and has given Him to execute judgements", "the words that I speak to you are spirit and they are life", "I am the Alpha and the Omega, The Beginning and the End, I will give of the fountain of the water of life freely to him who thirsts" "and I will raise him up on the last day"
- John 8:23; 5:26-7; Revelation 21:6; John 6:44

Ah, you see, I am glad you responded as you have substantiated what i thought. Jesus stated he was "the son of man", as well as stating he was "the son of God". As I stated a human can only be created, by a man and a woman, even if it transpired that the father came from off this planet. This would work in to Jesus sating he was both the son of a man and the son of a God. as I suggested may be plausible. Especially as god the father made us in is image as well, therefore we look like God and think like God, after we ate from the tree of knowledge "now they have become like us". The Bible only affirms these opinions clearly.

However another and more realistic explanation is that "the son of God" refers to the universal God that is father to everyone and everything. Also the statement "I am from above...not of this world" suggest to me, a completely different meaning to him literally being from above, especially as he was born on earth..Even if my father was born in one country an I in another, I would not say I was my fathers nationality. The central teaching of Jesus is rejection of the material world, remember he also stayed celibate, what more of a rejection of earthly things is there than abstinence. He also gave up his physical body without a fight, another rejection of "this world". This is how I see it, there is the material world and the spiritual world, or more specifically the spiritual world is the world of belief, conviction, self disciplined morality. In other words, the higher human characteristics, that we aspire to but mostly fall short of. The higher more perfect side of human consciousness are the things that are all internal and within our selves, but they are "not of this world" or worldly material things. Jesus was simply stating he was above being drawn into the world and the petty emotions that rule and ruin most people and most of society.


In my opinion. Jesus was talking about the same things as Buddha. That ridding the mind of the lower emotions, will rid us of all the drama and negative consequences those emotions bring into our lives, which include internal, mental and emotional problems and escalate into physical conditions. Eg, Desire for lots of food, leads to gluttony, which leads to obesity, heart attacks etc. Desire for vengeance, may lead to violence regret and prison. Desire for sex and companionship, leads to unstable and dysfunctional relationships, with no solid foundations, which leads to unwanted children in broken homes. Desire to be more sociable leads to drinking too much, and the various unforeseen consequences of being too drunk to make sensible choices. The desire to have friends, leads to making compromises with your morality or your convictions. The desire to make money will override your compassion to treat others as equals, especially if your a boss over workers who do much more than you do but get paid far less. All in all people sell out, in order to fit in or be successful in this material world. And the feeling that you have sold out because of all your selfish desires, leads to a feeling of emptiness "away from God", which leads you to try to fill the god sized hole with alcohol and drugs...It's a no brainier to me.

Jesus rejected selling out, simple as that and it cost him his life, but his point was there is no life to be lived if you compromise on everything you stand for, there is only a living death, like a zombie..Look at a crack or heroin or meth addict for extreme examples. The eternal life I believe he was talking about was the life that is not concerned with the material world and that includes the material body and all the things of the mind, because even the mind is an illusion created by the brain and as i stated it's the soul that is supposed to be immortal and people don't like to get to grips with this message, one all religions share, your mind is not what is supposed to live on, but your unthinking soul. That message doesn't float well in a materialistic society, where "Christians" want to be raptured, literally ascending to some perfect heaven world on another planet or at very least have their current and imperfect, mind, transferred into a perfect body on a heavenly world to once again experience life through our five imperfect senses with our same imperfect minds, and you will be cursed with the want's and desires we have here on earth, the same ones that cause this place to be imperfect...get the irony...how stupid people these days are to think like this...see all of that is materialistic way of thinking about the soul, and not a spiritual ideal, where we are one with God.

The same teaching as Buddha told us, it's all about the mind. The eternal life, is the life that is unconcerned about the literal life on earth or some literal life in some physical heaven world, in other words the eternal life is the mind that craves nothing, not even literal life. The mind that does not crave life at all costs, does not fear death...and when you don't fear death you have conquered life and are immortal because death is just another passing moment and nothing more. This is what Jesus message was, to live fully, is to live without desires and without fear...same as Buddha. What amazes me is that people don't see it.
Does this prayer not sum it up perfectly.

The Lord is my Shepherd; I shall not want.
He maketh me to lie down in green pastures:
He leadeth me beside the still waters.
He restoreth my soul:
He leadeth me in the paths of righteousness for His name' sake.



Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death,
I will fear no evil: For thou art with me;
Thy rod and thy staff, they comfort me.
Thou preparest a table before me in the presence of mine enemies;
Thou annointest my head with oil; My cup runneth over.



Surely goodness and mercy shall follow me all the days of my life,
and I will dwell in the House of the Lord forever.

And by the way, to dwell in the House of the Lord forever. Well what is forever? It means always, eternity..well people forget, eternity is not sometime in the future, but it includes all our past and present, including before we were born. just as the soul is said to be eternal. Also what is the house of the Lord? Some literal physical Heaven? No, the house of the Lord is everything, as god made everything always, the entire universe and we dwell in it now, and in the past and in the future.

reply to post by TheBlackHat


You can have your opinion based on what you think Jesus meant with His life...but it does not mesh with any sense of reality or what the Messiah was prophesied to do. Perhaps send some more time looking up OT Messianic prophecies of what Jesus had to fulfill were foretold about with so you get a better sense of why He did what He did rather than trying to explain it away through convoluted rationalizations.

Originally posted by JesuitGarlic
reply to post by TheBlackHat

 

You can have your opinion based on what you think Jesus meant with His life...but it does not mesh with any sense of reality or what the Messiah was prophesied to do. Perhaps send some more time looking up OT Messianic prophecies of what Jesus had to fulfill were foretold about with so you get a better sense of why He did what He did rather than trying to explain it away through convoluted rationalizations.

As I have said repeatedly.."my opinion", "my take on it"...Never claimed I was correct, or all knowing that's why I included a question mark in the title. I have given a couple of rational interpretations of the Bible..to see if anyone wants to expand or challenge them..with rational debate.
I fail to see how I am trying to explain anything away? i would just say there was no Jesus and no God if I was trying to do as you suggest. Does the Bible not state God made man in his image??????? What can be the only rational conclusion to that etc.
Sorry for rattling your cage, not my intention. I have spent much time, many years, pondering the Bible and Jesus, it's not like I just came up with these convoluted rationalizations, as you say.
If the Bible has commandments to obey, and Jesus told us to be compassionate etc, then I think it's pretty obvious, the Bible is advising us on the best way to live "this life" for the best outcomes in "this life", but even if we do our best and are good people we may still be nailed to the cross in "this life", but as long as we lived the correct way, then we wouldn't fear death, not because we get rewarded in heaven but because we get the reward of living in peace and resting in peace. Living a good life should vastly narrow the chances of bad things happening to you, of course random bad things still happen to good living people, but people who lead recklessness lives usually have one hell of a lot more bad things come into their lives due to their lifestyles. if your exceptionally good and something bad happens, at least you know you didn't bring it on yourself, and even that knowledge is a comfort.It's the things you do to yourself that are hard to live with.

Originally posted by tomten
reply to post by LABTECH767

 

And.. it is possible, it wasn't the Red Sea, that was parted.
It is possible, another place could have been parted, by a strong steady wind.

It was the Red Sea. Researchers have found chariot parts underwater there. I saw the story about it a few years ago. I'll try to find it and provide a link.

but I do agree with you in the sense that most Christians out there are fake

reply to post by honested3


If they are fake then they are not Christians.

What you mean is that there are corrupt men who falsely present themselves as representing Christianity and use the label. Their hidden agenda is to steal your money and feed their ego. And it works - judging from their huge flocks. Judging from their wealthy life style. Which is a long way from Jesus' poverty.

This thread has gone somewhat off topic, mainly as Christianity has that tendancy, due to it being such a huge set of stories and doctrines. And as it would seem to have a multi layered meaning you can easily go off track. As i said there are the literal stories, of miracles and then the various subtext's. Not only can we see connections with other religions, including Buddhism and before that paganism, as it was Constantine who adapted Christs message to take over from the old Roman religion.

Further we have numerology, where some people claim that certain numbers that repeat throughout the bible such as the number 40, have some special significance. So in short there are many, many ways of looking at and dissecting the bible..however if we go back to the literal interpretation and take it as word alone and the statements made in it as actual facts, just for arguments sake, then it is worth examining weather miraculous, supernatural, superhuman abilities are even possible, weather through faith alone as in the placebo effect or in an all powerful invisible God "the Holy Spirit" that can be tapped as a power source.

With this superhuman/ supernatural aspect of the Bible. I am interested in weather belief, or some aspect of belief can act as a key to unlocking hidden human abilities or more interestingly can faith be used as a key to unlock some unseen hidden dimension in which we can interact with, making it appear we can produce objects from thin air etc... as i already stated the placebo effect in medicine is well documented, where a patients belief alone can heal them in some instances. Can this placebo effect work outside of the body? Is there a possibility that the miracles of the Bible are not just stories to represent ideas but that they may well have literally happened? If so we must consider the amount of times "faith" and belief and repeatedly mentioned throughout the bible. We must investigate further weather belief and rock solid faith can literally move mountains. because if it can then it would prove the world we know as real, is not real at all. Of course this goes into the realm of the matrix and holographic universe, but if the miracles of the Bible are true, then only a holographic reality could be manipulated in such a way. Is this the key. If we find some way to truly accept realty is an illusion, can we break free from it???????? Again this goes back to Buddhism in some respects but also Christianity. Could the real message of the Bible be that the reality we are so attached to is not real at all??? And by rejecting it as Jesus and Buddha did, can we only then have a full knowledge of our true capabilities and see into other dimensions and interact with those higher dimensions????? Could this be the true message of Religion, not just Christianity???? debate is welcome on this topic.



www.dailymail.co.uk...


www.youtube.com... Are we the flatlanders.

reply to post by TheBlackHat


I find it hard to even want to think of religions where a lot of verses are cryptic drivel and a lot of art work depicts and old man with naked children, or jesus with young children resting their face in his crotch, or even like jews writing backwards you look at pics that show the cross "t" his written upon it as apparently a variant of his name it clearly says #... Seems theres quite a bit about Christianity that's crude when you start to notice stuff.

reply to post by cbb28767


what about how fingers look kinda like penises...or where the fingers on your hand meet, it looks like a vagina kinda, wow hands are so perverted when you think about it...

reply to post by TheBlackHat


It is true many Christians do keep a "score card" of sorts like you are describing. I know I have been guilty of that many times, and truth be told there have been several times when I was needed by someone, and I let them down because it was inconvenient for me. Most Christians are far from following Jesus teachings, most think they have it because they do said deeds, or they go to church frequently or give the church a lot of money. What your seeing is people trying to earn and buy their notches on their 'score card'. It is also true that a lot of Christians are deep down feeling uneasy about things, I think part of that is because we don't fit into this world, when we try to we end up doing things like trying to earn and buy our score cards.

I know for a fact I don't feel like I fit into this world, and that I do deep down feel like there is always a struggle within me between doing what I want, and doing what I know is right, and they do not always line up, and most times [if were honest] I end up doing what I want. Many Christians will never get past the belief that their salvation is dependent upon works, and many will go to heaven realizing they were doing good works only for themselves and not the Lord. This is why it is good that we are forgiven by God, and that we are all saved by grace. So there is a difficult place to start, the notion of equality, the notion that a business man who has worked hard his whole life and earned everything he has, can be in the same standing with God as the lazy unmotivated homeless guy who is a nobody in earthly standards. If you really dwell on that fact, it is either going to be wonderful to you, or horrifying, and it goes against any human ideals.

So how does one live a Godly life? As cliche as it sounds, you pray and read your Bible, then go on living your life within the guidelines of scripture and praying, and the Lord will bring the works to you, the deeds to you, as opposed to you going to the deeds and works etc. Most Christians think heaven is this place you get to cash in on your 'good works' and then be treated like a king, when that is a false idea. Heaven is a place where you serve God for eternity, and unless you know God on earth that may seem unappealing to you, but when you know who God is, and realize serving Him for eternity and how you will discover more and more of His wonder and love, that is way more appealing to me.

Funny thing about my own life is the times I thought I was being the best Christian, were the times in retrospect I realized I was in it for myself, and was far from it. Alternatively, the times in my life when I realized I had let God do the work, and not me, were the times when I felt far from being a good Christian, when I felt I haven't "paid my dues" if you will. So there it is, most of a Christian walk is about getting past your own selfish desires and your own wants and letting God take control to where your wants are His wants, and your desires are His desires.

reply to post by TheBlackHat

the reality we are so attached to is not real at all?

Do you mean the reality you are attached to personally, or a universal one that we are all necessarily forced to live in?
Jesus said that he and his disciples were "not of this world" which implies there is a better world for Christians.

So how does one live a Godly life?

reply to post by honested3


I do not know the answer but I like the question.

It seems that no one is comfortable in this world. Both the honest and the corrupt.

The Bible seems to offer a better world for some of us. A world where corrupt men (and women) are absent.

The Bible seems to say that Jehovah does not want to rule over robots. We have free will to exercise. His requirement seems to be "they will have to know that I am Lord".

I would think that life in Jevoah's Kingdom will be quite different from life in this 21st century. Because the things we pursue are false idols to start with.

reply to post by leostokes


I agree with you 100%!

Originally posted by TheBlackHat

Originally posted by Kody27

Originally posted by TheBlackHat

Do I believe I can walk on water, NO. but I do believe that it's possible to convince yourself of anything...

edit on 2-5-2013 by TheBlackHat because: (no reason given)

edit on 2-5-2013 by TheBlackHat because: (no reason given)

edit on 3-5-2013 by Gemwolf because: Removed all caps title

This is the only sentence that made sense in your entire post.

If anything, the bible should be taken metaphorically, not at all literally. If you take ANYTHING in the bible literally, then you are cheating yourself out of a wealth of information and symbolism.

Jesus probably wasn't even real first of all, if he was it's a god damned miracle that a blonde haired blue eyed guy came from the middle east. Secondly, people didn't "speak japanese" when they spoke in tongues. They jibbered random made up words chaotically. Big difference.

I think you misunderstand me..Right now i don't believe I can walk on water, because I am in my regular normal state of mind. My rational state of mind tells me if i am sitting down or standing up etc. My rational mind tells me when i touch a solid object that it is indeed solid.
What i am stating is that under certain conditions, you can go from having a ration viewpoint of the world, and change your perceptions of what reality is. Obviously when under the influence of powerful psychoactive drug's such as '___' people believe that reality is bending in front of their eyes. We have heard stories of people jumping off buildings under the influence of such drugs, because during that time, they believed without question that they could fly etc.

Of course we also know that jumping off a building when under the influence of '___', leads to a big red splat on the concrete. However the baby should not be thrown out with the bathwater because too many of these alleged supernatural experiences, where people can bilocate or walk on water or fly or levitate...have been linked to an altered state of consciousness or trance state.
I conclude that somehow you would need to be both fully awake in the rational sense, yet also awake in the altered state, because people who apparently have achieved paranormal feats were not high on drugs, but in some other altered state which drugs like '___' possibly mimic unsuccessfully perhaps.

This leads to the question of '___', which is naturally occurring withing the human brain, yet we only experience a small dose of it whilst dreaming. From what I have heard if a powerful dose of '___' is ingested or even inhaled, some people claim that the hallucinations that are seen ,are not just hallucinations but a "real" glimpse of another reality unlike what people experience on '___'. A doorway to another dimension.

edit on 3-5-2013 by TheBlackHat because: (no reason given)

I forgot about mentioning drugs...my bad...seriously though...this was hardly a promotion...if a certain drug is naturally occurring in the brain then why would i be barred from naming it????? Frankly deleting its name is a step too far as it is making reading my response near impossible..

edit on 3-5-2013 by TheBlackHat because: (no reason given)

I understood exactly what you were saying, even with the missing drug related term... I think you mean dee em tee. I've tried it several times and I am convinced that it is a mixture of "hallucinations" and layers of reality. Just like Alex Jones is a mixture of information and misinformation haha.