How Soon Will The Rapture Take Place ?

Bandit, you can agree with Byrd all you want.
You both are incorrect.

It is only "TRUE CHRISTIANS" that cast out devils, heal the sick, pray and the "physical" eyes of the blind are opened, the lame walk and the deaf hear. I have seen cancer healed, aids healed and many other miracles manifest so I give little thought to those that claim to be "WISE" but walk totally in the flesh, no spiritual manifestations in their lives other than their talk. Talk is Cheap, if you are the one lying on your death bed I would think that you would rather have someone come in that could heal your infirmity as apposed to someone giving you a pep talk.

For those that don't know, below find listed some of the attribrutes of a "TRUE" Christain, not one that claims to be such. Talk is Cheap, True Christians have "POWER" and this is what seperates us from the imposters.

Mark 1617 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;
18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.
19 � So then after the Lord had spoken unto them, he was received up into heaven, and sat on the right hand of God.
20 And they went forth, and preached every where, the Lord working with them, and confirming the word with "SIGNS" following. Amen.


If You claim to be a "MATURE" Christian and have no "SIGNS" manifested in your life, YOU ARE NOT TRULY A CHRISTIAN.

The "KEY" word being "Mature" not someone that just joined the church yesterday or one that has never desired to grow into the Fullness of Christ.

Ro 15:29 And I am sure that, when I come unto you, I shall come in the fulness of the blessing of the gospel of Christ.
Eph 4:13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:

1Co 2:4 And my speech and my preaching was not with enticing words of man�s wisdom, but in "Demonstration" of the Spirit and of "Power"

True Christians don't just talk, we demonstrate and operate in the "POWER OF GOD" !

Originally posted by Lastday Prophet
Bandit, you can agree with Byrd all you want.
You both are incorrect.

It is only "TRUE CHRISTIANS" that cast out devils, heal the sick, pray and the "physical" eyes of the blind are opened, the lame walk and the deaf hear. I have seen cancer healed, aids healed and many other miracles manifest so I give little thought to those that claim to be "WISE" but walk totally in the flesh, no spiritual manifestations in their lives other than their talk. Talk is Cheap, if you are the one lying on your death bed I would think that you would rather have someone come in that could heal your infirmity as apposed to someone giving you a pep talk.

For those that don't know, below find listed some of the attribrutes of a "TRUE" Christain, not one that claims to be such. Talk is Cheap, True Christians have "POWER" and this is what seperates us from the imposters.

Mark 1617 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;
18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.
19 � So then after the Lord had spoken unto them, he was received up into heaven, and sat on the right hand of God.
20 And they went forth, and preached every where, the Lord working with them, and confirming the word with "SIGNS" following. Amen.


If You claim to be a "MATURE" Christian and have no "SIGNS" manifested in your life, YOU ARE NOT TRULY A CHRISTIAN.

The "KEY" word being "Mature" not someone that just joined the church yesterday or one that has never desired to grow into the Fullness of Christ.

Ro 15:29 And I am sure that, when I come unto you, I shall come in the fulness of the blessing of the gospel of Christ.
Eph 4:13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:

1Co 2:4 And my speech and my preaching was not with enticing words of man�s wisdom, but in "Demonstration" of the Spirit and of "Power"

True Christians don't just talk, we demonstrate and operate in the "POWER OF GOD" !

So you are saying that I need to speak in tongues to be a true christian? Wait...and I need to heal the sick.....plus the poisonous snake wont bite me? I see now.

What you are saying is that the bible says that true christians will be protected.....and you can tell true christians by the signs. I wonder how many young children...were true christians by your account (15-16 year olds), and died horrible painful deaths from cancer. God really protected them from the poisonous snake now didn't he...

So you are saying that I need to speak in tongues to be a true christian? Wait...and I need to heal the sick.....plus the poisonous snake wont bite me? I see now.

What you are saying is that the bible says that true christians will be protected.....and you can tell true christians by the signs. I wonder how many young children...were true christians by your account (15-16 year olds), and died horrible painful deaths from cancer. God really protected them from the poisonous snake now didn't he...

Firstly, The word "Christian" Means "Christ-Like"

A True Christians life would be "Like Christ's"

The "TWO" things Jesus and the Disciples did more than anything else was
(1) Heal The Sick, (2) Casting Out Of Demons (evil spirits)

How could you consider yourself a "Christian" and not heal the sick or cast out demons ?

One of the reasons many followed Jesus, was because of his ability to heal the sick and work many different types of miracles.

How can we say we are "Like Christ" and have no signs or spiritual attribrutes that are manifest as they were in the lives of Jesus and his Disciples ?

I don't want to hear any of your "Excuses" as to why you don't operate in the "gifts" of the Spirit.

There are "MANY" Mature Christians that heal the sick, cast out devils, work miracles and do the "Exact" same things Jesus and the Disciples did, and manifest the same "SIGNS" that are recorded in Mark 16:15-18

By others being able to do these things "Prove" that they are things that "Christians" can and "Should" do.

It Is Better to be able to Heal the Sick than it is to give them a PEP Talk

Everyone can "SAY" they are a Christian, not everyone can Heal the Sick and Cast Out Devils. The "POWER OF GOD AND THE SIGNS" seperates the TRUE CHRISTIANS From the Imposters.

I would like to further emphasize "MATURE" Christains, not those that would be considered "Babes" in the Lord. You have some people that may be 70 years old and are still "Babes" and have never "Matured" in the Lord.

Ya know, I occasionally see cars on the road that have a bumpersticker that says something like, "In case of Rapture, this car will be unmanned."

Now I think that is just rude and dangerous. If you think your car may suddenly become driverless, I don't think you should be driving, do you? How can you call yourself a Christian when you are consiously putting others in danger by this? What if you are on the Interstate and your suddenly driverless car veers off the road a 70+ MPH and runs into me head on? Do you think they would cancel your Rapture in that case since leaving your car driverless and killing others probably isn't very "Christ-like"? Gosh darn!

Oh well, what would Religous Bigotry be without the true believers getting to think the unbelievers will get what's coming to them while they get to sit back and say "See? Told ya, you heathen. Now burn!"

Originally posted by Lastday Prophet

It is only "TRUE CHRISTIANS" that cast out devils, heal the sick, pray and the "physical" eyes of the blind are opened, the lame walk and the deaf hear. I have seen cancer healed, aids healed and many other miracles manifest so I give little thought to those that claim to be "WISE" but walk totally in the flesh, no spiritual manifestations in their lives other than their talk. Talk is Cheap, if you are the one lying on your death bed I would think that you would rather have someone come in that could heal your infirmity as apposed to someone giving you a pep talk.

Can you cast out devils? Can you heal the sick? Make the blind see? Is there documentation on those (aids and cancer) cases you claim to have seen? Are they verified by a doctor? And are they exclusive to the christian religion?

Like you said, talk is cheap.

Oh boy.... I think calling LastdayProphet a fundy would be a HUGE understatement..... Believing that you have to be able to do everything that Jesus did to be considered a Chrisitan is the most absurb thing I have ever heard. Is the earth flat? Do you stone children for sinning? Do you own slaves? Tell me, can you walk on water? What, no? Looks like you're goin to hell. I really cant understand how some people consider that logical.

Alec.. well you may be surprised, but i agree with you on this one...holy cow man i gotta go back and read what was posted.....jesus came to save the sick and the lost..not to save the superhero......but 1 thing i gotta ask you is about your statement....because, jesus did not stone children to death...also solomin said the earth was round, before we sailed the ocean blue.....what did you mean there?

I didnt mean to infer that Jesus stoned children, I was thinking of how literal Lastday seems to take the bible and I was just wondering if he/she still followed some of the laws of the bible.

Originally posted by Lastday Prophet

So you are saying that I need to speak in tongues to be a true christian? Wait...and I need to heal the sick.....plus the poisonous snake wont bite me? I see now.

What you are saying is that the bible says that true christians will be protected.....and you can tell true christians by the signs. I wonder how many young children...were true christians by your account (15-16 year olds), and died horrible painful deaths from cancer. God really protected them from the poisonous snake now didn't he...

Firstly, The word "Christian" Means "Christ-Like"

A True Christians life would be "Like Christ's"

The "TWO" things Jesus and the Disciples did more than anything else was
(1) Heal The Sick, (2) Casting Out Of Demons (evil spirits)

How could you consider yourself a "Christian" and not heal the sick or cast out demons ?

OK, you just told me that you can heal the sick, and you just told me that you can cast out demons. How about this, heal me. If you can fix my undeserved ailments, then I will believe that you are a healer as you just claimed.

If their were people with these gifts, who truly had love in their hearts...like Jesus....then there would be no-one suffering. True love and compasion won't exclude anyone. One thing I know for sure about Christians...is that they are very prone to excluding those of us who give them the slightest questions. So, go on...be like Jesus....keep excluding us. I am so sure that is what he taught you in the bible.

On a side note, I cannot believe that someone has actually told me that you need to be a healer to be a true christian. When he also believes christians are the only ones who will get to heaven. This guy just might be one of those non-mainstream pentacostals. Not the Assemblies of God type (money grubbers), and not the straight pentacostals. I think it is the unitarian pentacostals or something. They believe you must speak in tongues to get to heaven. Even though they make no sense when they do it....and the tongues spoke of in the bible were understood by all.

back to the real question for this thread. Where in the bible does it describe the rapture.......SOMEONE TELL ME!

[edit on 12/7/2004 by Seapeople]

Firstly, I do pray for the sick and they are healed.
I do cast out demons.
I do operate in the gift of "The Word Of Wisdom"
I do operate in the gift of "Discerning Of Spirits"

I never said or implied that you are going to Hell if you do not speak in tongues or do not possess the other manifestations mentioned.

What I said is that "MATURE CHRISTIANS" manifest signs and that the "SIGNS" confirm a Mature Christian.

Second, Seapeople if you are sincere, I will intercede in your behalf.

Third, here is the reference to the Rapture !

1 Co 15:51 � Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
55 O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory? [grave: or, hell]
56 The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law.
57 But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.
58 � Therefore, my beloved brethren, be ye stedfast, unmoveable, always abounding in the work of the Lord, forasmuch as ye know that your labour is not in vain in the Lord.

And Here

1Thess 4:13 � But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. [prevent: or, come before, or, anticipate, or, precede]
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words. [comfort: or, exhort]
1 � But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you.
2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.
3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.

And can it be verified when you "heal the sick" that you pray for? Are there written documents? Is the patient checked by a doctor? Etc...?? If the patient is not checked by a doctor you can't consider him or her healed.

Bandit, I generally pray for those that cross my path and I do not carry a reciept book. Sometimes the Lord sends me into the Hospitals and Leads me to whomever he will, I do not carry reciepts there either.

I do not do what I do to be seen of men, I pray and keep on stepping, I do not want people to get caught up in me, It Is God that does the Healing, so they can thank him once I'm gone.

There are people like Paula White, Kenneth Copeland, Benny Hinn, RW Shambach, TD Jakes, Jesse Duplantis and a host of others that have documentation of people being healed, It is not something new.

Many of these have also documented Miracles.

When is the last time "YOU" prayed for the sick ? or have you ever ?

Originally posted by Lastday Prophet
Bandit, I generally pray for those that cross my path and I do not carry a reciept book. Sometimes the Lord sends me into the Hospitals and Leads me to whomever he will, I do not carry reciepts there either.

I do not do what I do to be seen of men, I pray and keep on stepping, I do not want people to get caught up in me, It Is God that does the Healing, so they can thank him once I'm gone.

There are people like Paula White, Kenneth Copeland, Benny Hinn, RW Shambach, TD Jakes, Jesse Duplantis and a host of others that have documentation of people being healed, It is not something new.

Many of these have also documented Miracles.

When is the last time "YOU" prayed for the sick ? or have you ever ?

And what are your thoughts on healings/miracles that occur outside of Christianity?

Jesus preached it would happen in the lifetime of those who surrounded him.

See verses

Matthew 16:28

Mark 9:1

Luke 9:27

They all say the same, from the Mouth of Jesus himself.

Generally he is telling them that they shall not see their generation pass before the lord return.

Unfortunately they have all passed and Jesus never returned within their lifetime. Now why would Jesus say such things? Does that make him a liar or a crazy man?

I really don't see how you can just explain that one away. I don't go for all the gobbley gook the church tells you. It's in plain English, research it yourself.

Originally posted by Lastday Prophet
Bandit, I generally pray for those that cross my path and I do not carry a reciept book. Sometimes the Lord sends me into the Hospitals and Leads me to whomever he will, I do not carry reciepts there either.

I do not do what I do to be seen of men, I pray and keep on stepping, I do not want people to get caught up in me, It Is God that does the Healing, so they can thank him once I'm gone.

There are people like Paula White, Kenneth Copeland, Benny Hinn, RW Shambach, TD Jakes, Jesse Duplantis and a host of others that have documentation of people being healed, It is not something new.

Many of these have also documented Miracles.

When is the last time "YOU" prayed for the sick ? or have you ever ?

I have prayed before, for the sick. I no longer bother. This here is a post I wrote not too long ago explaining why. Read it if you would like

:www.belowtopsecret.com...

I am sincere by the way. Since you seem well read in the words of the Bible, I want you to convince me that the bible says the rapture will occur. I sincerely want to know if it says that.

I have posted verses above that confirm the rapture.

Originally posted by Lastday Prophet
I have posted verses above that confirm the rapture.

LDP

I agree that there will be a rapture. Scripture is clear.

Some people try to explain it away by citing the transfiguration (seeing Jesus in his glory).

Byrd says its historical, but that is exactly what Paul is rebutting in his letter to the Thessalonians.
More info


LDP..

A couple more things:

1.) You are correct that we are told about the times and season 'SO THAT WE WILL KNOW' the times and season. Your standing strong on that and you are right to do so.
2.) There are many more verses in the bible that support the rapture. You seem to be doing just fine so I wont go digging just yet. Got to leave for work soon
3.) This one is important. Stay calm. YOur doing fine. Dont get over excited here. This section of this board was not made for us. If you look at the different topics you will find that this is a place where they put on blindfolds and wack us like pinatas. Sure, we can talk about any christian thing we want here.... Just expect every kind of heated opposition there is. Factual and emotional.

4.) Finally, dont think your alone. There are more than a few who agree (except perhaps on timing...but that is another thread or PM) and applaud your efforts on teaching this.

One thing I feel I need to show you tho, because of something I read above...

Mat 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
Mat 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
Mat 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.


By their works you will know them. Many people got turned off to Christ because they followed a 'christian teacher' who's heart was not after Christ. He would talk the talk...even walk 'part' of the walk...but the other things he did were just plain wrong. There is no such thing as a half christian. Either all Christ, or not Christ.
Its hard to tell them apart sometimes, and even harder to explain to a non believer because their eyes are not opened.
Teaching that is not accepted in a world that is moving toward a united religion.

I believe that there will be a rapture. However nowhere in the Bible does it say this Rapture is pre-tribulation. In fact it states the opposite.


[edit on 12-7-2005 by MisTicaL]

One of the reasons many followed Jesus, was because of his ability to heal the sick and work many different types of miracles.

Perhaps. However.
Then said Jesus unto the twelve, Will ye also go away? Then Simon Peter answered him, Lord, to whom shall we go? thou hast the words of eternal life.

That was the real reason Peter followed him.

Originally posted by Lastday Prophet
Everyone can "SAY" they are a Christian, not everyone can Heal the Sick and Cast Out Devils. The "POWER OF GOD AND THE SIGNS" seperates the TRUE CHRISTIANS From the Imposters.

I would like to further emphasize "MATURE" Christains, not those that would be considered "Babes" in the Lord. You have some people that may be 70 years old and are still "Babes" and have never "Matured" in the Lord.

I believe that a christian becomes a Mature christian when he realizes that his beliefs are based on nothing more than faith and love. Or like Jesus said

By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another.
But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you

In my opinion it take a sense of maturity to bless those that curse me instead of healing the sick. You see, the sick don't need healing because what everybody really needs is Love.

Originally posted by Lastday Prophet
How could you consider yourself a "Christian" and not heal the sick or cast out demons ?

Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not love, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal. And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not love,

I am nothing.

And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, and have not love, it profiteth me nothing.


And now abideth Faith, Hope, Love, these three.
But the greatest of all these things is Love.

Love separates the kids from the boys, the jerks from the men and christians from the wannabe's

One of the reasons many followed Jesus, was because of his ability to heal the sick and work many different types of miracles.

Perhaps. However.
Then said Jesus unto the twelve, Will ye also go away? Then Simon Peter answered him, Lord, to whom shall we go? thou hast the words of eternal life.

That was the real reason Peter followed him.

Originally posted by Lastday Prophet
Everyone can "SAY" they are a Christian, not everyone can Heal the Sick and Cast Out Devils. The "POWER OF GOD AND THE SIGNS" seperates the TRUE CHRISTIANS From the Imposters.

I would like to further emphasize "MATURE" Christains, not those that would be considered "Babes" in the Lord. You have some people that may be 70 years old and are still "Babes" and have never "Matured" in the Lord.

I believe that a christian becomes a Mature christian when he realizes that his beliefs are based on nothing more than faith and love. Or like Jesus said

By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another.
But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you

In my opinion it take a sense of maturity to bless those that curse me instead of healing the sick. You see, the sick don't need healing because what everybody really needs is Love.

Originally posted by Lastday Prophet
How could you consider yourself a "Christian" and not heal the sick or cast out demons ?

Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not love, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal. And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not love,

I am nothing.

And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, and have not love, it profiteth me nothing.


And now abideth Faith, Hope, Love, these three.
But the greatest of all these things is Love.

Love separates the kids from the boys, the jerks from the men and christians from the wannabe's