What's the speed of dark?

Originally posted by Seapeople
We refer to the speed of light all the time. People say we can travel faster than the speed of light. Yada Yada Yada. Darkness has no speed. It is the absence of light. Light---------- Thermodynamics and Relativity are based on the theory that nothing can travel faster than the speed of light. There is a reason for this. Im sure most of you know this. The speed of light isnt the actual limit. The speed of light can be changed depending on the medium it travels through...I.E. light travels slower though air and water. The speed of light in a vacuum though is different. As an object with mass increases speed, it increases mass. As it accelerates further, more energy is needed. As it approaches the speed of light the increasing amount of energy needed to accelerate it further closes in on infinity. Now I have never read this but it was how I came to understand the speed of light. The speed of light is the limit because photons have no mass. They travel the maximun speed alloud because the infinite amount of energy needed to move an object with that mass isnt necessary. In other words it may be better stated, light travels at the maximum speed a particle or body can travel.

Wrong. Because light can be frozen to a halt and light can travel much faster than the normal speed of light thu spoeple believing they cna go back in time altough they really couldn't all they could do was get to a place faster than the speed of light.
The speed of light is relative.

If a light source and a space craft are...:

Light : craft :

And the craft heads away from the light source, it will look back and see light, unless it goes faster than the speed of light, then it will see darkness no matter what unless there is a light source in frontof them, then they will still see light but behind them total darkness even though a light source is there, the light cannot reach their eyes so all they see is darkness. The the speed of darkness is faster than the speed of light in a general direction. But hten as william pointed out everything is dark unless light is shone apon it, to make sure light doesn't shine apon you, thus head away from everything that is light faster than the speed of light, or jsut hide urself behind objects that block the light. thus no speed is needed ;P

[Edited on 10-11-2003 by DaRAGE]

Originally posted by greenkoolaid

Originally posted by Satyr
Which is really absent? Isn't light also the absence of dark?

No. Maybe in your dictionary. But not scientifically. You are just toying with semantics.

Perhaps, but how can anyone know this? It hasn't even been that long since we've discovered that light travels. I don't see how anyone can just close their minds to this concept. There is no such thing as anti-matter, IMO. Just because we have no definition of it, does not mean it doesn't exist. Everything is made of something, and everything is moving at some speed. There isn't a single thing in the universe that doesn't move.

William is onto something though. Another theory I've considered is that dark is the only conduit dense enough to allow light to travel. But what is it? We don't even know what it is. How can we say it has no motion?

[Edited on 11-10-2003 by Satyr]

Actually, thought travels somewhat slower than light. Thought can't occur faster than the synaps in your brain, which is slower than light.

Also, special relativity does not say something can't travel faster than light... it says a mass cannot travel at light speed (more specific, as an object accelerates to the speed of light, it's mass becomes infinite, thus requiring infinite energy to achieve light speed... impossible).

you again are using observation, which varies depending uppon the observer...

materially no-thing can travel faster than light...

if one was to transduce(warp) space in an object to object would travel faster than light but really it would not be moving it would be warping space...

the brain houses several things and the makeup of these things can be observed, but once one decides that all they are are the things observed they are nothing more than an object with no potential for outside observational growth...

Originally posted by DaRAGE

Originally posted by Seapeople
We refer to the speed of light all the time. People say we can travel faster than the speed of light. Yada Yada Yada. Darkness has no speed. It is the absence of light. Light---------- Thermodynamics and Relativity are based on the theory that nothing can travel faster than the speed of light. There is a reason for this. Im sure most of you know this. The speed of light isnt the actual limit. The speed of light can be changed depending on the medium it travels through...I.E. light travels slower though air and water. The speed of light in a vacuum though is different. As an object with mass increases speed, it increases mass. As it accelerates further, more energy is needed. As it approaches the speed of light the increasing amount of energy needed to accelerate it further closes in on infinity. Now I have never read this but it was how I came to understand the speed of light. The speed of light is the limit because photons have no mass. They travel the maximun speed alloud because the infinite amount of energy needed to move an object with that mass isnt necessary. In other words it may be better stated, light travels at the maximum speed a particle or body can travel.

Wrong. Because light can be frozen to a halt and light can travel much faster than the normal speed of light thu spoeple believing they cna go back in time altough they really couldn't all they could do was get to a place faster than the speed of light.
The speed of light is relative.

If a light source and a space craft are...:

Light : craft :

And the craft heads away from the light source, it will look back and see light, unless it goes faster than the speed of light, then it will see darkness no matter what unless there is a light source in frontof them, then they will still see light but behind them toal darkness even thougha light source is there, the light cannot reach their eyes.

Seriously, read into the theory of relativity. Nothing can travel faster than the speed of light. The speed of light is relative and non-relative at the same time. It travels the same speed to all observers in every reference frame. Like I said in my above post. The speed of light itself can be slowed down. That doesnt mean that it can go faster than it goes in a vacuum. It goes as fast as any particle or body can in a vacuum. The limit.

These are excellent pages on Dark Sucker Theory.

Take 'em or leave 'em.

home.netcom.com...
("Dark Sucker Theory, or "D.S.T." as we like to call it around here, has a long and sordid past. Throughout most of recorded history, the myth that "light" is some kind of magical substance (and that darkness is the absence of light) has permeated human thinking.

Why has this myth been perpetuated, despite the overwhelming evidence to the contrary? It may have something to do with various Biblical passages that go like this:

"O Lord, shine thy light upon us."
The Bible has been used by the Establishment to insist that the Earth is flat, that pi is exactly 3, and that the universe is only some 6000 years old � and now they're turning the Bible against Dark Sucker Theory. ")


www.geocities.com...
("For years it was believed that light wes emitted from an electric bulb; recent information has proven otherwise - dark is sucked into the bulb - therefore, the bulb is a dark sucker.

The dark sucker theory proves the existence of dark suckers as well as proving that dark is heaver than light. Some examples are as follows:

Electric bulbs: There is less dark near the electric bulb than at a distance of 100 feet when it is operating; therefore, it is sucking dark and can be classified as a dark sucker. The larger the dark sucker, the greater the distance it can suck dark. The larger the dark sucker the greater its capacity of dark. The dark sucking capabilities are evident when the dark sucker has reached its capacity and will no longer suck dark. At that point you may notice the dark area on the inside portion of the dark sucker. The larger the dark sucker, the larger the area of dark found within. This type of dark sucker can be made directional by placing a shield around a portion of the unit or behind it. This will prevent dark from entering the dark sucker from that side thereby extending the range of the dark sucker on the unprotected/unshielded side.")








* Caveat emptor. Much of the material on this theory is written in tongue-in-cheek vein. But there is true physics behind the premise. *

[Edited on 10-11-2003 by MaskedAvatar]

never heard this theory before, very interesting and thanks for the links...

this is a definite potentiality...

Originally posted by William
Actually, thought travels somewhat slower than light. Thought can't occur faster than the synaps in your brain, which is slower than light.

Also, special relativity does not say something can't travel faster than light... it says a mass cannot travel at light speed (more specific, as an object accelerates to the speed of light, it's mass becomes infinite, thus requiring infinite energy to achieve light speed... impossible).

What can travel faster than light in a vacuum? I do appreciate the clarification though. It supports my point. I have read some books on superluminal travel. Well one book. I dont know though. I have studied relativity to some degree. I was extremely skeptical that time dilation or length contraction could occur. I was also skeptical of the limit of light speed for any object. So I went looking for information on that. When I got through with it my opinion had changed. Go figure. I might just be a wacko though.

The theoretical partical, tachyons, always travel faster than light. I wrote a short story based on this basic idea...
www.abovetopsecret.com...

it was thought that required the observation of the object(tachyon)...

the tachyon itself is a part of thought...

Light could just be visible darkness.
Ever thought of that?

If that is the case, both would travel at the same speed.

I read two books that dealt with tachyons. The second of the two was almost based on them as a posiblilty.

"Faster Than Light,
Superluminal Loopholes In Physics"

By: Nick Herbert, Ph.D.
He also wrote a book called "quantom reality" that dealt with those on a smaller scale. It was the book I refered to before. Honestly it left me with more questions than answers. Tachyons remind me of the "ether". The ether was basically just made up to correct errors in calculations...and explain some goofy stuff. They are theoretical in nature and have never been directly observed. Now these particles cannot be observed by us if I understand this correctly (and correct me if I am wrong) because they never accelerate negatively below the speed of light. In other words they live on the other side of the barrier. I could never prove or disprove them. Einstiens theory or special relativity, though has been supported in many experiments. His theory's cannot rule them out either....but are directly related to this side of the light barrier. That is the side we live on. It is the only side we can concern ourselves with at this point. Maybe I dont know enough about tachyons.

Originally posted by William
The theoretical partical, tachyons, always travel faster than light. I wrote a short story based on this basic idea...
www.abovetopsecret.com...

William, I had never read that before. VERY (full-lip V) cool story!

Originally posted by bigsage
never heard this theory before, very interesting and thanks for the links...

this is a definite potentiality...

I am having trouble following. Maybe I am too closed of mind. You are of the opinion that if we think it, or observe it in thought, it is real? Maybe so. I guess all that really matters is what is in our individual minds.

i would have to say that they are similar in that they are polar opposites, so they are equal...

yet the observation of their abilities are completely different...

one can be used to create, one can be used to create and as well both can be used to destroy...

The notion that darkness is a persistence, perhaps like gravity, is how I would apply it. Its there at all times at all places no matter what, like gravity. It requires no speed because its already there before and after light strikes an area.

Seapeople: obviously you havn't read about hte experiment they did that light reached it's destination faster than light travel i a vacuum. In fact light reached it's destination 300 times faster than the speed of light in a vacuum.


300 times faster than the speed of light, and 7% faster than the speed of light, and halting light to a crawl


They conducted an experiment that involved lasers, a chamber containing cold caesium atoms and a super-fast stopwatch.

The end result was a beam of light that moved at 300 times the theoretical limit for the speed of light.

Earlier this year, a team of physicists made a microwave beam travel 7% faster than light speed. Last year, they announced that they had even slowed light down to almost a crawl.


*edit*

This is what they were saying about it and why it was such a huge fuss....and got people going about time-travel.

"Scientists have seen a pulse of light emerge from a cloud of gas before it even entered.

This astonishing and baffling observation was made by researchers from the NEC Research Institute in Princeton, US.

They conducted an experiment that involved lasers, a chamber containing cold caesium atoms and a super-fast stopwatch.

The end result was a beam of light that moved at 300 times the theoretical limit for the speed of light.

It was Einstein who said nothing physical could break this barrier because, among other things, to do so would also mean travelling back in time.
"

[Edited on 10-11-2003 by DaRAGE]

what about "black holes"

do they just suck the light into them? or and when they do that, dose it "speed up light?"

would that mean "gravity" moves faster then light? or at leasts "acks" faster

Originally posted by MaskedAvatar
These are excellent pages on Dark Sucker Theory.

Take 'em or leave 'em.

home.netcom.com...
("Dark Sucker Theory, or "D.S.T." as we like to call it around here, has a long and sordid past. Throughout most of recorded history, the myth that "light" is some kind of magical substance (and that darkness is the absence of light) has permeated human thinking.

Why has this myth been perpetuated, despite the overwhelming evidence to the contrary? It may have something to do with various Biblical passages that go like this:

"O Lord, shine thy light upon us."
The Bible has been used by the Establishment to insist that the Earth is flat, that pi is exactly 3, and that the universe is only some 6000 years old � and now they're turning the Bible against Dark Sucker Theory. ")


www.geocities.com...
("For years it was believed that light wes emitted from an electric bulb; recent information has proven otherwise - dark is sucked into the bulb - therefore, the bulb is a dark sucker.

The dark sucker theory proves the existence of dark suckers as well as proving that dark is heaver than light. Some examples are as follows:

Electric bulbs: There is less dark near the electric bulb than at a distance of 100 feet when it is operating; therefore, it is sucking dark and can be classified as a dark sucker. The larger the dark sucker, the greater the distance it can suck dark. The larger the dark sucker the greater its capacity of dark. The dark sucking capabilities are evident when the dark sucker has reached its capacity and will no longer suck dark. At that point you may notice the dark area on the inside portion of the dark sucker. The larger the dark sucker, the larger the area of dark found within. This type of dark sucker can be made directional by placing a shield around a portion of the unit or behind it. This will prevent dark from entering the dark sucker from that side thereby extending the range of the dark sucker on the unprotected/unshielded side.")

This is an interesting theory. I don't think I've considered that one before. I love the abstract. Some of our most spectacular discoveries have been things that people just couldn't grasp, and even denied after proof was shown.

[Edited on 10-11-2003 by DaRAGE]