Nearly 5 minutes of Unedited audio from within WTC on 9/11 - ***WARNING: GRAPHIC IMAGES AND AUDIO***

Val, looks like a piece of debris. I don't think it's anything significant.



Or maybe it's a bomb

Sorry I could'nt be of more help...

[edit on 13/4/2006 by SportyMB]

From the hi-res image, I cant really tell, but maybe a small Buck knife?
Here is the hi-res image here

When my brother's chopper went down he was wearing flight gear. So he had the imprint of that flame-retardant gear. In the area where the gear was present (basically the coverage of a t-shirt and jockey shorts) he was "lessed burned" than the portions of his body that were not covered by that. The guy still sitting up (the guy that appears to have been electrocuted by the wires hanging down) shows the same signs of being "less burned" by the clothing protecting his torso (compare the neck up and exposed areas of the forearms to the chest and stomach). Also, you can tell the fireball that burned him was about chest high. This explains why the lower you go, the less fire damage you see to the victims (the guy at the very bottom exhibits no burns on his clothing at all).

But what I'm curious about is that both the guy still sitting up, as well as the other burned guy laying down seem to both have on red jumpsuits, and in both cases the clothing seems to be flame retardant - almost like flight suits. To point this out, note the guy who is laying down (the burned one) is very burned on his head and face and forearms, but his clothing is still intact on his upper body. Disregard the guy with the knife, because he seems to have been low enough in the plane he was never subjected to the fireball that burned the other two.

Originally posted by Valhall

But what I'm curious about is that both the guy still sitting up, as well as the other burned guy laying down seem to both have on red jumpsuits, and in both cases the clothing seems to be flame retardant - almost like flight suits. To point this out, note the guy who is laying down (the burned one) is very burned on his head and face and forearms, but his clothing is still intact on his upper body. Disregard the guy with the knife, because he seems to have been low enough in the plane he was never subjected to the fireball that burned the other two.

Did you not notice the ID badge on the the guys jumpsuit? And the top guy in the jumpsuit seems to have some sort of checkered pattern there underneath his right arm.

I would like to know why these two are even wearing these? Who are they?

As for your questions, what is it that you are implying? Im not saying you are wrong about anything, just wondering what you are saying.That perhaps one guy is from lower deck and the others were in the upper portion of the 'plane'?

Originally posted by Dae


Did you not notice the ID badge on the the guys jumpsuit? And the top guy in the jumpsuit seems to have some sort of checkered pattern there underneath his right arm.

Could you mark the areas you are referring to? Please?

No, I'm not implying they are on diffferent levels (there are no different levels short of cargo and passenger). I'm saying the guy with the knife sheath thingy was on the floor when the fireball rushed through. He wasn't sitting up straight or standing up when it went through, so he didn't get burned by it.

This explains why the lower you go, the less fire damage you see to the victims (the guy at the very bottom exhibits no burns on his clothing at all).

Or he could have been covered by debris which could have insulated him. Notice the legs of the jumpsuit on #83, they don't appear to be burned as badly as the top of the guy who is sitting in the chair.


Actually looking closer at the photos that does appear to be the case .







Before debris removal.
www.rcfp.org...

After debris removal.

www.rcfp.org...


I don't think any of the victims in that photo were on the plane. The orange jumpsuit guy thats laying down still has his ID card around his neck, which is mandatory when in the building.


So, I stand by my previous comment, not the same experience. Two of them appear to have been directly exposed to flames, the other appears to have been covered.


[edit on 13/4/06 by Skibum]

Okay...I FINALLY saw the badge you guys were referring to.

Ok, I see now what you meant.
These images are very interesting.If we have this 'plane' hit and explode and all 3 of these people seem to have been in the same area, even if 2 were sitting and 1 was on the ground, the emence fire that was there for those few seconds would have engulfed the whole area.I dont see a rolling fireball going the length of the 'plane' in this situation.I see one huge explosion engulfing the entire area buring up equally.I could be wrong on that, but seems probable.

I don't think any of the victims in that photo were on the plane. The orange jumpsuit guy thats laying down still has his ID card around his neck, which is mandatory when in the building.

If this is the case, as well with the other images showing 'body parts' this even further tells us, well, that we still dont see it being flight 77 AA 757 or it's passangers.It tells me that 'something' hit the Pentagon while people were in that area of the building.Whether or not that 'something' had any type of 'passangers'... who knows for sure.

Originally posted by Valhall

Originally posted by Dae
Did you not notice the ID badge on the the guys jumpsuit? And the top guy in the jumpsuit seems to have some sort of checkered pattern there underneath his right arm.

Could you mark the areas you are referring to? Please?

Ok, had a go in paintshop and image shack, lets hope this works.

Originally posted by SMR
Ok, I see now what you meant.
These images are very interesting.If we have this 'plane' hit and explode and all 3 of these people seem to have been in the same area, even if 2 were sitting and 1 was on the ground, the emence fire that was there for those few seconds would have engulfed the whole area.I dont see a rolling fireball going the length of the 'plane' in this situation.I see one huge explosion engulfing the entire area buring up equally.I could be wrong on that, but seems probable.

Actually, what I was saying is that there would be a fireball that the rear part of the plane would have travelled through.

Just wondering.....


At what point do the Americans interested in this 'issue' wonder about the war it started and how many hundreds of more American soldiers that have died since then ,
not to mention the tens and tens of thousands of INNOCENT men women and children that ironically most Americans hate?

Who pays for that ? Maybe we can send some flowers or something.
I don't know, but isn't it also a shame that even if we now KNOW the MUSLIM people DID NOTHING to hurt America that the path towards nuclear war still marches on.

What would it take to make them stop and get our soldiers out of the desert ?
Or stop them from killing their "enemy" when they are the only creature on this Earth fighting for what they believe in?

I almost want to see what happens next.
Can you imagine if the United States gets what it deserves for doing this?

I'm sure it will be allright, just remember who lost what, and who died for living in the target zone and those who are being killed based on their faith, and fighting for what they believe in.

They don't have a doubt in their minds.
Americans don't know who or if they are even really experiencing this life anymore.
Can you believe that the suicide bombers could have been influenced by something other than the MUSLIM faith ?Or that someone else could be instigating their civil war and they are really nothing more than a PEACEFULL group of people?
That's probably impossible for some of you, but maybe you should consider it.

I don't think there is anything I can do to help, much less try to change things... I can't imagine what it would be like for my sisters children if they ever wake up in OBLIVION and I can't go home and be there to feed them while they are trying to understand what happened. Much less everybody else in my entire family that I could feed come hell or high water.

I think you are supposed to get what you deserve this time.

Only a damn fool could be stupid enough to even think they could try to save some of you.

But Hey!! Make sure everybody you talk to stays focused on this evidence because nothing could be worse than the EVIDENCE they are feeding you.
The passion they have couldn't be applied to anything else ,, no way..
everything else is going along just fine.

IT'S NOT too FUNKING late to LOOK at the GOD DAMMED FACTS !! that would PROVE the same people are guilty.

MMM !!! MMM!!! MMMM!!!

i need a drink.






[edit on 14-4-2006 by Contentious]

I know this is sort of off topic but while it's still fresh in my mind - weren't there articles right after 911 happening, talking about the FBI/Government going around telling everyone/witnesses to silence up - that included anyone who remotely knew anything.

But I'm not referring to like a mass wave of FBI telling everyone to be quiet, but you know what I mean.

That has always caught me as interesting.

Those two intact bodies were definately people inside the Pentagon and not those on board the plane. The ones on the plane would have been reduced to small remains and maybe a few larger remains of a torso or head, looking at the type of impact and the utter destruction of the plane. This sort of impact would be like being in a very violent, explosive 'blender' for a second with extreme forces, flying debris, and impacts few can imagine, with some fire thrown in during and after. If the plane was pretty much entirely disintegrated by direct impact forces, you can expect the same and worse with the passengers.

Also, I would expect anyone on the first floor from near the center of the impact with the outer wall through to the punch out hole and 20-30 feet either side would have also been pretty shredded, looking at the damage to reinforced columns and other objects in this region.

There were about 125 people inside the Pentagon and 64(?) people on the plane killed.

About flight 93, I believe the coroner said that the largest bodypart found was a spinal column of 3(or 4?) vertebrae, and well less than 10% of victim bodyweight was recovered after all the sifting operations were through. Many remains were exploded upwards out of the crater and towards the woods and many small remains were even found up in the trees. Anybody who doesnt think this can happen in a plane crash needs to look at the Valujet Flight 592 crash in Florida, very similar in speeds and angle of impact, and nothing but small pieces found- of either the plane or people. The look of the 'impact crater' was also very similar, except the Valujet crash was in mud/ water.

Or look at the F4 crash test(google f4 crash test) that was 100 mph -slower- than UA93. The F4 was reduced to basically aluminum particles and pieces no bigger than the palm of your hand. If it does this to the plane, and you put bodies in the middle of that, what do you expect? Not very much left. As someone said, planes usually dont crash at steep angles at speeds above 500 mph, and when they do, this is what happens. Usually something is done/happens to decrease this speed and/or angle of attack.

580 mph is the speed of a 38 special or 45 auto bullet. A human body thrown into the ground - by itself- at 580 mph, would be severely torn apart/exploded by impact forces. Combine that with the violence of "f4 crash test"- type spray/explosion of shards of thousands of tiny aircraft parts and you should not expect much left.

I witnessed a friend of my older brother and his grandpa fatally crash in a WWII vintage plane in our neighborhood in a small town in SC right in front of my eyes at the age of 7. I was outside in an open field about 500 yards away when it crashed, and then we went over to it immediately. That sort of thing really affects you when you see it firsthand that young. Ever since then, I have been interested in plane crashes and other catastrophies/accidents and have spent far more than my fair share of time trying to understand these things and looking for them when I could find them. Believe it or not, what happened with flight 93(and 77) is to be expected in these extreme situations. But I do believe there is more to the last 3 minutes of the UA93 story than we are being told. 'Hani Hanjour'(or at least the man we know as 'Hani Hanjour') piloting AA77 is also highly questionable, but we will probably never know.

Based on everything Ive seen and read, all four flights crashed where we have been told. This is actually MORE conclusive with respect to flights 93 and 77 than 11 and 175, but people argue 93 and 77 even more. I think some of it comes out of a sort of subconscious denial that this can happen to planes and humans, and some of it is deliberate red herring.

There is much more to the conspiracy than the flights alone. If you spend too much time on that, you will partly push aside the rest of it, and there are plenty more provable points to 'the rest of it'.

beware the red herrings, and the time wasted following them.

Sorry for rambling. I intended a short post when I started.

What other photos are there of this wreckage? These two you are talking about look very limited in what they show.

Something about the bodies is not sitting right ( no pun intended ) with me.
Is there ANY info telling us where these bodies are? What section?
I ask this because, as we have talked about them, we have come to the idea that they were NOT on the 'plane' If so, then we have to wonder, how is it that they are in a sitting position?
Were they in a cart? Were they sitting at the other guys desk at the time?
I dont think there would be people on the 'plane' in orange jump suites, so we have to assume they were in the Pentagon.

It almost looks like they were 'strapped' into something.

They were in the offices when the plane hit. Many people in the building were killed instantly. Why wouldn't they be sitting?

Originally posted by Zaphod58
They were in the offices when the plane hit. Many people in the building were killed instantly. Why wouldn't they be sitting?

..........and you know this for sure 100% ?
Why wouldn't they be sitting? .........
It isnt like thats all people do in an office.
You gotta give me something better than just that man.Just because you see a road, doesnt mean it is just for driving.

So you mean if people are in an office NO ONE is sitting down? They're all standing and walking, and doing other things? Maybe they were on the phone, and were sitting down while they talked. There could be any number of reasons why they're sitting there.

This is why I asked if we knew WHERE this was.How do we know they were not in a cart? Perhaps they were. Perhaps they were sitting down in an office.We dont really know do we?
But you made it sound as if thats the only thing they could have been doing just because it is an office.