Russia declares war on Ukraine. Live updates from inside Ukraine

Russia not a superpower? Really? That my friends is a very ignorant statement. While the last 6 years our POTUS has been dismantling the Russians have been building...and aligning. There is also a nice piece on Afghanistan. You know, the place we are saying we are also withdrawing from to 'look good' to the Administration but maybe we were told to leave...by Russia. Just like in Syria and just like we were warned about Iran.

Linnk

The Russians are helping Iran go nuclear so, what if the same happened in Afghanistan? Make the enemy of my enemy my friend. All it takes is money and Russia has plenty. Do not believe the MSM and the sanction garbage. If you want to stop a bully you take action...you do not try to tell his mom not to give him lunch money.

As the U.S. military prepares to leave Afghanistan after nearly 13 years of conflict with the Taliban, three visiting U.S. congressmen had to endure a statement from Afghan president Hamid Karzai that was released while they were in Kabul.

Citing “the free will of the Crimean people,” Karzai’s office said, “We respect the decision the people of Crimea took through a recent referendum that considers Crimea as part of the Russian Federation.” To date, only Syria and Venezuela have taken a similar position.

reply to post by 727Sky


Unfortunately it isn't 1945 and the military industrial complex Eisenhower warned us about has significant influence now.

www.youtube.com...

reply to post by DJW001

about the generals:

US generals didn't have problem with using nuclear bombs on civilians, why do you think Russian generals would hesitate to use them in a situation?

matafuchs
Russia not a superpower? Really? That my friends is a very ignorant statement. While the last 6 years our POTUS has been dismantling the Russians have been building...and aligning. There is also a nice piece on Afghanistan. You know, the place we are saying we are also withdrawing from to 'look good' to the Administration but maybe we were told to leave...by Russia. Just like in Syria and just like we were warned about Iran.

I'm well aware of Russian military strength but it doesn't mean Russia is a superpower.

demus


Russia is not a superpower.
USA is a superpower.

So USA is one but russia is not, the difference being?
Ecconomically? Nah not really different. Maybe the russians being away from western interference are better off.
Diplomatically, I cant see anyone ahead, altho you may not want to see USAs enemys/detractors.
Militarily no, thats a given already.
If you are going to tell me that living standards are better in the USofA, you are going to need to have real good showmanship, because I dont really see that being a big win either.

So back to the question, what makes the USA one and russia not one?

Yusomad

demus


Russia is not a superpower.
USA is a superpower.

So USA is one but russia is not, the difference being?


So back to the question, what makes the USA one and russia not one?

it+s very easy, definition of a superpower.
I will not spell it out for you, you're smart enough to find the information by yourself but you can start from the definition of a superpower.

reply to post by Yusomad


I don't think anyone qualifies as a superpower currently. The US, Russia, UK, France, China and India are all powers. In descending order. Yes I really would put France above China and there is absolutely a logical reason for this. There is and when I think of it ATS will be the first to know... ok it would be technology and GDP per capita.

You can't project force when you are already overwhelmed by the conditions at home and that is the huge negative of having a large population. It's very rare in history for powers have large populations - Rome, Greece, Portugal, Spain, England ect. all had relatively small populations at the center of their empires. It's also one of the reasons empires decline when they get big.

demus

Yusomad

demus


Russia is not a superpower.
USA is a superpower.

So USA is one but russia is not, the difference being?


So back to the question, what makes the USA one and russia not one?

it+s very easy, definition of a superpower.
I will not spell it out for you, you're smart enough to find the information by yourself but you can start from the definition of a superpower.

So you are wrong and cant admit it...ok

Look the post above mine, he has a clue, you on the other hand...

reply to post by Yusomad


I really don't want to bother arguing but you should start from military and overall GDP stats.

cmon, I don't have anything against Russia and other powers but the truth is that the USA although declining is still no match for any of those countries in terms of "power"...

on the other hand USA would have very hard time directly confronting Russia directly because of many reasons.

but that still doesn't make Russia a superpower, not yet.

after all this mess, I think Russia could emerge again as a superpower in true meaning of the word.

reply to post by demus


The US might still be a superpower today but the choices are to cut back now or watch it collapse under its own weight. Debt and military over-expansion are the main causes of this and even the defense secretary can see it. I don't view this as a negative development as the upkeep of an empire weighs heavily on the domestic budget.

www.nytimes.com...

john452
reply to post by demus

 

The US might still be a superpower today but the choices are to cut back now or see it collapse under it's own weight. Debt and military over-expansion are the main causes of this and even the defense secretary can see this. I don't view this as a negative development as the upkeep of an empire weights heavily on the domestic budget.

www.nytimes.com...

Yes, that is true, I wasn't saying USA will be superpower forever but in present it still is the only real superpower.

reply to post by demus


Regardless of if it is classified as a superpower or not it's entirely possible the leaner trimmer USA will have more potential than the over bloated superpower of days gone by. If the suggested reforms are made before the collapse. America didn't have the best military going into WW2 but it had the best military coming out of it. Empires and superpowers are overrated in my opinion and anyone who attempts global power and control in the long term will fail.

There are now reports that Ukraine has deployed its army to the North and South borders as well as strengthening its number of soldiers at the Eastern border shared with Russia. Interestingly, Ukraine's Foreign Minister said that he believes they can regain control of Crimea. This may turn out to be an interesting evening given the developments today.

DJW001

It would be terrible for Russia.

Oh yeah, because war with Russia would be a walk in the park to the U.S. forces. It's not like the US always avoided direct conflict with Russia...

All of the fighting will be taking place on the Black Sea.

...and that is a disadvantage to the Russians because...?

Russian sailors will die.

And American sailors ascend to Asgard to meet Odin and feast?

The moment Putin tries to go nuclear, his own generals will turn on him. Wouldn't you? Or do you believe that stroking Putin's ego is worth destroying all life on Earth?

You know, this might come as a surprise to you, but not everyone is a coward. There are people, especially the kind of people with the devotion needed to get to General, that will follow orders to the end.

You're talking about the people who burn their own houses, farms and factories for centuries as a military defense tactic, and you have doubts they would nuke your arse back to medieval ages? You seem very unaware of how russians think, and especially, how they see the West.

reply to post by GarrusVasNormandy


thank you my dear for doing what I should have done but was too lazy to do it.
nice replies.

reply to post by ProfessorT


The sounds rather insane to me given the geographical defenses of Crimea. In historical battles nations who have had superior forces have failed to take the region and Ukraine doesn't have superior forces, not even close. I have pondered the potential strategies at play given that the region is a perfect killing ground for invading NATO forces who would otherwise have superior forces to Russia on paper.

john452
reply to post by demus

 

Regardless of if it is classified as a superpower or not it's entirely possible the leaner trimmer USA will have more potential than the over bloated superpower of days gone by. If the suggested reforms are made before the collapse. America didn't have the best military going into WW2 but it had the best military coming out of it. Empires and superpowers are overrated in my opinion and anyone who attempts global power and control in the long term will fail.

edit on 24-3-2014 by john452 because: (no reason given)

I think this is one of the most common mistakes with people discussing possible conflicts that involve the U.S.... (I agree with you)

If you look at the situation pre/post WW2, and how long it took for everyone to get involved, it took some years to get the fighting started. Most people seem to find security in the fact that Russia is coming out of a crisis, after the Soviet Union fell apart, and that their military isn't in full capacity in numbers and readiness.

Well, neither was the U.S. prior to WW2.

People seem to be incapable of noticing everything that was going on at the same time. Politically, economically and militarily.

The U.S. was just coming out of the Great Depression, with a very weak economic structure still learning the ropes, and without a respectable and operational force. It hadn't anything close to what the British or the Nazi's already had...

Yet, with just the fact that WW2 started, the US went into full gear and transformed itself into the super-power that defeated USSR and stretched to modern borders (NATO borders).

It comes as a shock to me how people simply refuse and deny the possibility of Russia achieving the same thing. War-time politics are a very powerful thing.

reply to post by john452


of course.

some members fail to understand that Crimea wasn't taken for 1 or 2 reasons only.

there are many good reasons for this strategical move and we don't know all of it. yet...

Time to grab guns and kill damn Russians – Tymoshenko in leaked tape

Ukrainians must take up arms against Russians so that not even scorched earth will be left where Russia stands; an example of former Ukrainian PM Yulia Tymoshenko’s vitriol in phone call leaked online.
Tymoshenko confirmed the authenticity of the conversation on Twitter, while pointing out that a section where she is heard to call for the nuclear slaughter of the eight million Russians who remain on Ukrainian territory was edited.

She tweeted “The conversation took place, but the '8 million Russians in Ukraine' piece is an edit. In fact, I said Russians in Ukraine – are Ukrainians. Hello FSB

Sorry for the obscene language.”

reply to post by Hellas


talking about poking a bear...