Dr. Jacques Vallee ~ The Control System

For those contributors here who have been really 'invested' in this thread, I want to highly recommend going back and re-reading sections..

Start with 1ofthe9's post on page 77 (there's value in going back even further a few pages) and read up thru Autograph's post on page 81 (all of 1ofthe9's posts on these pages are worth thorough re-reading)..

The reason being that we were making such great progress in the discussion, and had just hit on some intriguing new ideas on the Control System -

Then all of a sudden (and this isn't meant as a 'dis', just observation) Bybyots suddenly takes a complete 180 and sends us on a 'nothing supernatural to see here folks, it's all just temporal lobe hallucinations' tangent (totally contradicting all his/her? previous posts in the process)...

And we never really did get back to what had been some very interesting conjecturing...

What strikes me as odd, is that somewhere in previous pages, I had posted asking if anyone else was noticing that whenever the discussion would get deep into the question of the 'nature' of the Control System, someone would come along with a 'switch-track' of a post, and we'd suddenly be off in a different direction...

It would be great if we bring some older 'stuff' back on track, because re-reading here and there on older pages, I see some great 'fodder' for conversation that never got beyond an initial two or three posts...

I have spent a lifetime thinking on things like a savants' genius; near death experiences, epileptic hallucinations, etc. It seems our brains can produce chemicals that cause these events, but it doesn't explain the similarity of them down through the ages.
I am left wondering if we all possess some form of stored memory that for whatever reason we are blocked from accessing. I'm pretty sure we have access to all universal knowledge, just not the knowledge to bring the curtain down. Yet.

Really good idea Lost Girl! I've thought about this thread occasionally and wondered what happened. (temp computer issues) Most times a thread this long just bogs down after the first 50 pages...people forget where they left off reading, it takes time to regain your train of thought, just the unwieldiness is like running with a bowling ball chained to ones ankle.

Star for the reminder!!

Lostgirl, I didn't actually have anything else to add along those lines yet - simply the idea that accounts of demonology should be examined closely as belonging to the same realm as UFO strangeness. Also the idea that ritual provides a traditional means to 'get in touch' with the unknown, via expansion of consciousness, and so on.

There is a small but definite subset of certain books on evocation and ceremonial magic where people who have 'meddled deeply' with such things, claim to describe visits to demonic realms (abductions, in Vallean terminology), conversations with physical entities, etc. They provide a refreshing change of context from the typical New Age contactee's reports.

I'm basically asking everyone to check their local used bookstore's Metaphysics section for this kind of book and incorporate their contents into the body of research we have going: sincere firsthand accounts of encounters with demons and spirits.

Thought for the day: What would it take to make witchcraft and magic a capital crime once again?

You good folks want to really learn all the nuances of this ‘control system” you should really read a bit about this: Spiral dynamics, something I have posted before.

No deep occult stuff on the surface just deep psychology that covers intricately the concept of memes, in-fact these guys practically invented memes.en.wikipedia.org...

Spiral Dynamics is a dynamic model of human development and development of memes carrying systems - such as a social network, society or company - introduced in the 1996 book Spiral Dynamics by Don Beck and Chris Cowan. The book was based on the 1970s theories of psychologist Clare W. Graves. Spiral Dynamics argues that human nature is not fixed: humans are able, when forced by life conditions, to adapt to their environment by constructing new, more complex, conceptual models of the world that allow them to handle the new problems.[1] Each new model transcends and includes all previous models. According to Beck and Cowan, these conceptual models are organized around so-called vmemes (pronounced "v memes"): systems of core values or collective intelligences, applicable to both individuals and entire cultures. In spiral dynamics, the term vmeme refers to a core value system, acting as an organizing principle, which expresses itself through memes (self-propagating ideas, habits, or cultural practices). The superscript letter v indicates these are not basic memes but value systems which include them. The colors act as reminders for the life conditions and mind capacities of each system and alternate between cool and warm colors as a part of the model.[2] Within the model, individuals and cultures do not fall clearly in any single category (color). Each person/culture embodies a mixture of the value patterns, with varying degrees of intensity in each. Spiral Dynamics claims not to be a linear or hierarchical model. According to Spiral Dynamics, there are infinite stages of progress and regression over time, dependent upon the life circumstances of the person or culture, which are constantly in flux. Attaining higher stages of development is not synonymous with attaining a "better" or "more correct" values system. All stages co-exist in both healthy and unhealthy states, meaning any stage of development can lead to undesirable outcomes with respect to the health of the human and social environment.

What this has to do with aliens and Vallee…well nothing on the surface but believe me, to be knowledgeable about ALL the aspects and nuances of the deep psychology that controls us can make one a powerful person in the light of all the powerful subjects dealt with here and elsewhere.

Just understanding Spiral Dynamics conceptually, something outside of Vallee's radar, puts things in another perspective.

maybe...

Animals I tell you, perhaps we need a hit of that woosaahbaa!

breath guys and gals

its only walls of bull#7ing and links

think what you want the original questions remain unanswered lets use this thread to talk about fatty acids and new age philosophy problem is id only watch and let you all be so open minded to watch your brain fall out (and collect the data) a$$holes using the control system vr the ass hole that wants to learn it. which A hole are you

lostgirl
For those contributors here who have been really 'invested' in this thread, I want to highly recommend going back and re-reading sections..

Start with 1ofthe9's post on page 77 (there's value in going back even further a few pages) and read up thru Autograph's post on page 81 (all of 1ofthe9's posts on these pages are worth thorough re-reading)..

Ah jeez. I'm really touched you guys think I'm worth listening to. It means a lot.

Autograf I've tried the odd experiment. Hasn't resulted in much (that I remember). One idea I've had is to try Salvia, but I'm real hesitant. :s

which A hole are you

I know which A hole I am, thank you very much.I've always done my best to stay 100% open minded and consider ANY information, no matter how far-fetched it is.
You seem to be implying that we're all way off track; perhaps you could share the 'truth' with us?

One idea I've had is to try Salvia,

Our bodies are capable of producing the chemicals needed, we just need to learn how to trigger them. Ever been to a Pentecostal 'faith healing'? Remember the national news story 20-some years ago about the 98 pound mother lifting a car off of her trapped son?

'Where two or more are gathered in MY name, there am I....'
Sure makes me want to join hands with a like -minded group, enhancing our electromagnetic auric field, and use the energy to let our brains fall out and do some inter-dimensional traveling.

Life becomes more complex every day, because we make it so. We keep adding 'details'.
I have enjoyed mulling over every single thought presented in this thread, even by those highly intellectual posters,talking over people in 'esoteric' terms. Even with my Fooking-Wagnells, I wasn't able to get all of the little nuances, but I certainly got the big picture of where the poster was coming from.

Personally, I find it helps to take a very complex issue and continue breaking it down, piece by piece, until you hit the heart of it. All of the aspects being discussed are just blood and neurons and genes and, and...adjectives.
Ms.Nugget

1ofthe9
Autograf I've tried the odd experiment. Hasn't resulted in much (that I remember). One idea I've had is to try Salvia, but I'm real hesitant. :s

A lot of old material does talk about herbal ingredients in ritual, and a lot of it appears to be what the hippies would call trip recipes - flying ointment, etc. It's interesting to note that the part of the old witchcraft that remains largely illegal is the herbalism side of things.

However, it seems that most of that ritual fluff can be dispensed with in favor of "expressions of will", "temporary belief" and "set and forget" sigils which work in the background to achieve results via 'subconscious magnetism', as in Carroll/Hines and chaos magick. Supplication to deities seems to use this same mechanism to produce desired results, and it works best if you are as specific as possible about your desires - then let go of them and stop thinking about it.

Would a sigil for seeing UFOs produce results? In order to increase likelihood of success ("God helps those who help themselves" is another way to put this), how about a sigil deployed in the context of an optimal Vallean encounter environment? Remote countryside, where the operant is conducting outdoor activities such as hunting, stargazing or astronomy, during early morning hours which are the peak for UFO sightings - as well as the old Hour of the Witch - same time period. The Law of the Times, I believe he calls it.

1ofthe9
Autograf I've tried the odd experiment. Hasn't resulted in much (that I remember). One idea I've had is to try Salvia, but I'm real hesitant. :s

What Autograf says, about expectation is important. All these things can be experimented and 'played' with, and Salvia is one of the safer options it must be said, but expectation, or personal preparation is paramount, and will effect outcome.

Much emphasis is placed upon the taking of substances such as ayahausca as being a shamanic experience, but this is hugely misleading. A shaman is someone with special characteristic which are recognised by the preceding shaman, they are then educated in the 'profession'. The shaman then is able to serve and guide others through the experience and help them decypher what they experience to give it meaning.

Think carefully about what you want to experience, formulate questions and do some research into the ethnobotanics that may best suit your needs, and expect to need to reflect on any resultant experiences in order to get anything of meaning out of it.

Much depends on what you are wanting to achieve and the preparations you take beforehand. Either way, take care. Also, of note, a lot can be achieved just by sleep deprivation and fasting...if you can spare the time, and in combination. But again, take care. In short, there is a big, big difference between recreational and spiritual use.

reply to post by KilgoreTrout


Add sensory deprivation to the list: Public float tanks are popping up in cities, and may be an option for some.

Autograf

1ofthe9
Autograf I've tried the odd experiment. Hasn't resulted in much (that I remember). One idea I've had is to try Salvia, but I'm real hesitant. :s

Would a sigil for seeing UFOs produce results? In order to increase likelihood of success ("God helps those who help themselves" is another way to put this), how about a sigil deployed in the context of an optimal Vallean encounter environment? Remote countryside, where the operant is conducting outdoor activities such as hunting, stargazing or astronomy, during early morning hours which are the peak for UFO sightings - as well as the old Hour of the Witch - same time period. The Law of the Times, I believe he calls it.

edit on 22-3-2014 by Autograf because: (no reason given)

So in other words...a crop circle? I've deployed the odd sigil for fun regarding the subject, but I can't say if any results have been obtained. Might be worth doing enmasse...

Dissociative drugs seem to be the kind that deliver the 'contact' experience, and they were also the focal of Pulharich's ESP drug work for the CIA.

reply to post by Autograf


Or for those of us with less cash to splash, sticking our ears under the water in a deep bath with the lights out

But yes, that could work too...though I've never tried it.

reply to post by KilgoreTrout


With a companion/trip sitter that could work well, and I'm sure it's the traditional method. Apparently the experience progresses for some time, hours even...

reply to post by 1ofthe9


Yes, a sigil to manifest a crop circle might be interesting.

Dharana yoga (Wikipedia) also comes to mind as an interesting exercise to practice on the result, should one actually succeed in manifesting a 'happening' such as a crop circle or a foo fighter. The interesting thing about Dharana (and Dhyana, and thus probably Samadhi as well?) is that the state of mind is encountered naturally when all the conditions are right, but I digress...

In any case, those three Raja Yoga practices simultaneously are known as Samyama, which is considered "a tool to receive deeper knowledge of qualities of the object" - essentially scrying without "props". Seems appropriate.

Samyama also reminds me strongly of remote viewing, in that the target need not necessarily be local. Vallee's coordinate remote viewing is basically a specialized form of Samyama, if I understand it correctly, and may be very close in concept to one of the 'siddhi' of Raja Yoga.

Autograf

reply to post by 1ofthe9

 

Yes, a sigil to manifest a crop circle might be interesting.

Dharana yoga (Wikipedia) also comes to mind as an interesting exercise to practice on the result, should one actually succeed in manifesting a 'happening' such as a crop circle or a foo fighter. The interesting thing about Dharana (and Dhyana, and thus probably Samadhi as well?) is that the state of mind is encountered naturally when all the conditions are right, but I digress...

In any case, those three Raja Yoga practices simultaneously are known as Samyama, which is considered "a tool to receive deeper knowledge of qualities of the object" - essentially scrying without "props". Seems appropriate.

Samyama also reminds me strongly of remote viewing, in that the target need not necessarily be local. Vallee's coordinate remote viewing is basically a specialized form of Samyama, if I understand it correctly, and may be very close in concept to one of the 'siddhi' of Raja Yoga.

edit on 22-3-2014 by Autograf because: (no reason given)

Yeah. Keel ran across Buddhist monks using 'remote viewing' in the course of his adventures recounted in Jadoo.

I finished The Network Revolution... Vallee basically called the modern internet, 4chan, the Singularity... What really bugs me is the end of the book where he meets with 'Dr. Breeze'/The Gnome (is this a hint?). It sounds like something out of Phillip K Dick, and totally at ends with the rest of the book. Did Vallee have a run in with the controllers or something?

His idea for a 'Backster Effect Terminal' is really charming imho.

Autograf
However, it seems that most of that ritual fluff can be dispensed with in favor of"expressions of will", "temporary belief" and "set and forget" sigils which work in the background to achieve results via 'subconscious magnetism', as in Carroll/Hines and chaos magick. Supplication to deities seems to use this same mechanism to produce desired results, and it works best if you are as specific as possible about your desires - then let go of them and stop thinking about it.

I'm not a fan of the idea of using drugs or sensory deprivation - first, I think that whatever you can do with them, you should be able to do without them (though likely necessitating more effort), and second, I don't like the idea of not having full control of myself while, basically inviting 'who knows what' to stop on by....

This post reminded me of a theosophist (can't remember name) who talked about "the will to believe" being as important as belief itself, which I think ties into what Autograph says about 'dispensing with "ritual fluff"'...

It goes back to the 'experiment' I posted, wherein the participants need to 'choose' to believe (i.e. by their will)...

Along with that I would add "focused intention", in fact, I read somewhere that traditionally, the purpose of a wizard's wand was to direct or 'conduct' their focus and intention...

And Nugget makes a point, which I feel is a strong component, about the value of "two or more" in attempting 'workings' or such..

reply to post by Brotherman

Look, you cannot come in here casting judgement about the 'way' the thread is going when you aren't here regularly to contribute and by doing so, help keep it on track!

The people posting currently are actually the ones who've done the most toward trying to keep (and get the thread back) on target after irrelevant tangents..

And I will say for a third time (and it is even more obvious, having gone back and done a complete re-read from page 70), these "tangents" seem to be very purposeful...we no sooner get discussing possibilities for 'affecting' (in some way or degree) 'elements' of Vallee's Control System, then some big side-tracking post shows up and contributes nothing but page count...

(I'm not saying any given 'individual' is necessarily doing this on purpose - it could be the 'System' itself inspiring people with 'ideas' which 'seem' to them to be relevant, but really aren't)..

Brotherman, you know I appreciate your intellect and value your thoughts, so please don't be offended by my speaking the truth...

You know I just made a cup of tea…BIGELOW TEA!

This guy is real rich, he ain't no LIPTON TEA guy of course, but a person who has a tea named after him is one rich dude.

Now all these characters, Bigelow, Vallee, Green, Doty, the aviary types and many Moore ( pun intended) are the people that have a certain vibe that can lead to something or someone who really knows something and ain't telling.

Often people say or write something significant that no has noticed and through these kinds of forum threads such can be revealed often.

This is the insight of Mr. GUT. He is the magnetic pole of this very arcane and useful and sometimes insightful, what I call, forensic UFOlogy.

He draws, through his magnetism on this forum, energy of a certain kind of more or less elevated thinking towards UFOlogy, not the inane obsessional kind that it often tends to lead to.

The control system idea is a pregnant one. It can vary off into a myriad series of subjects
as this thread has done occasionally. That's all right if folks want to do that, no problem.

But maybe If we get back to the source, that is Vallee’s idea of a control system of alien contact and abduction methodology, something imo that hasn’t been looked into enough, maybe the thread can get some of that initial spirit back into the picture.

But that’s up to you folks…

But maybe If we get back to the source, that is Vallee’s idea of a control system of alien contact and abduction methodology

reply to post by Willtell


I think that's exactly what every poster thinks they are doing. We each come from a different angle, but that doesn't make the ideas any less valid. Only when we're sure that certain aspects should not be considered, we begin to spin our wheels.

I enjoy reading the information you contribute, as it has given possibilities I had not considered before. I wouldn't mind reading about a few more!
Ms.Nugget

reply to post by nugget1


My ideas of this alien UFO phenomenon are simply that the may be studying us and wondering why…

Why do we kill our own children?

And the usual stuff of wars, poverty, untreated disease, greed, and ordinary spiritual blindness of the human race, etc. Just as we study animlas.

As for old Vallee, It may be that he isn’t really as knowledgeable as he pretends to be.
Though his experience is vast, no doubt, he hasn’t cracked the alien code for sure.

They, the little guys, have stumped him. Their technology is just too advanced.

We are lost like sheep in the meadow with little attributes but a bit of intellectual prowess and immature spiritual development.

It may be that what guys like Vallee don’t ultimately understand is this: the aliens are their own technology. Their state of development is the technology not the outward physical power of controlling outward physical energy.

Regarding the thread

It may be the thread has run out of gas. I would be interested in hearing what lostgirl is precisely referring to in those past pages. I went back to them and couldn’t exactly decipher what she was referring to.