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Dr. Jacques Vallee ~ The Control System

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posted on Mar, 23 2014 @ 07:21 PM
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Copy and paste my friends as long as you link it just keep up the copy and paste just keep that up don't think just link it, it helps.




posted on Mar, 23 2014 @ 08:31 PM
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reply to post by Willtell
 


I was referring to the types of info (in posts on the page I'm now replying to) by Autograph and 1ofthe9 -
wherein the conversation is on occult/psychic/supernatural 'type' ideas for ways to 'experiment' with Vallee's Control System (which as those of us who have thoroughly read Vallee's more recent works know, is not ufo/'space' alien in nature).

Willtell...(And I honestly don't intend offense here) You don't seem to have understood Vallee's position on the whole UFO 'question' at all...

He admits that "he hasn't cracked the alien code", he does not in the least 'pretend to be knowledgable'...
He is stumped, because he has searched every 'avenue' possible and despite finding evidence that there is some kind of real 'phenomena', there is too much variability for the cause to be 'simply' (or 'only') extra-terrestrials in spaceships...therefore (despite the ET 'forms' of 'manifestation') the phenomena itself must (as Hynek and other ufologists agree) be Inter-Dimensional in nature...

And what many contributors of the thread (including Gut) are trying to 'keep' in discussion is the idea of finding a way to interact with Vallee's Control System by some occult/psychic/supernatural oriented means...because how else would you attempt 'other dimensional' interaction?

I don't believe the thread has run it's course, I believe it has (time and again) been thrown off course before we could get deep enough into conjectures on the above to make any progress toward conclusions...



posted on Mar, 23 2014 @ 08:50 PM
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reply to post by lostgirl
 


Thanks for the input.

BUT I perfectly understand Vallee. I have read his ideas on the matter and others who paraphrase him, such as you. It is not difficult to grasp.

Nethertheless, I don’t think Vallee really knows anything really. He just is an intellectual who is posturing and appealing to others of a similar mind set: new age scientific, quasi-occultic lore and possibilities surrounding the divinity of modern
”science” as relates to those people within the aviary who go around mystics to get power…power to do what?

When this “science” is being humiliated by some shrunken 3 feet midgets from out of space, yet he still maintains that arrogant posture that he does.
All he proves is that his vaunted science is lacking.

And as for his indulgence in mysticism…I’m not convinced hanging around Anton Lavey is anything useful.

If Vallee wants some information on the ID subject he should log in here I will be glad to educate him on the topic!



posted on Mar, 23 2014 @ 09:12 PM
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reply to post by Willtell
 


You would educate Vallee. Right. What is your testable methodology of exploring the ufo phenomenon and what information are you privy to that makes your science and or insight better or worse then his? I be willing to bet your making a wild claim here because you have nothing to offer other then copy paste quotes go ahead bury me in a wall of text from the first things related that come to mind. Bet thats what comes next.

3...2...1...



posted on Mar, 23 2014 @ 09:17 PM
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This is a hugely significant post of Gut's which got pretty much over-looked and 'side-tracked' from...

(I admit, I dropped the ball on it too.)

Gut is replying here to a post by Corsair talking about The Control System as: "enormously powerful occult forces that might be trying to manipulate [the world] towards a darker outcome..."


The GUT

The sickening reality hits me that I should've been working on this post well before now, but we're finally "there." The moment I've been waiting--and working--for. It ain't an easy discussion. It HAS to be "non-denominational" so to speak. Otherwise the discussion would have imploded long ago and this thread would be a ghost town rather than a working community. Dysfunctional--as all families/communities are--but extant and viable. Even vibrant.

It probably doesn't matter too much whether we define the issue as aspects of the dualistic nature residing in our subconscious, or as a "spiritual" matter working itself out from recorded history. The elephant is in the room and has ALWAYS been with us. An ancient battle and one most easily framed as Pisces vs Aquarius. Or Yaweh vs Babylon. Or Enki vs Enlil. Or Humanism vs Spiritualistic. Whatever.

The grand chessboard is in play and the stakes are us pawns. Don't get me wrong, I don't contend we have zero power, but I do contend that--so far--"other" hands move us.
The various arguments are subtle and all have strengths as far as I'm concerned. I have little desire to pontificate, so much as define the parameters.

For me, a step back from the confusing microcosm of world events and direction becomes much clearer from the macrocosm. The grand play on the board is GLOBALISM. If you don't see that in the events playing out in our society, then my contention is that you aren't paying attention and/or haven't researched enough. I think most here see it, but it becomes a question of: Is it a good thing or a bad thing?

Is it a matter of a pseudo-control system vs the legitimate control system as jadedandcynical (and corsair, too, I think) contend? That's quite possible. Where the rubber hits the road--it seems to me--is defining WHICH side the grandmasters who are moving the pieces around are on. Maybe coming to a conclusion on that could give us our best clues on which to personally define the game for ourselves?

Having said all that, this discussion will probably have to deal with the "occult." Yet again: Don't let the term throw anyone off. It can be construed from your own viewpoint whether as a philosophical standpoint or spiritual…only recognizing that it does come into play.

This ties in to the "reply" I just posted to Willtell, because part of turning the thread in the direction Gut talks about here involves discussion such as I elaborated on in that post regarding interaction with the "Inter-Dimensional"...

I mean, we can't move forward with discussing along the lines of this post of Gut's until we work out more about the 'occult/supernatural' aspects of [ufo] phenomena/Control System...

One 'area' we haven't touched on in relation to this is, Consciousness (in the sense of 'psychic') and how it might be utilized in experiments with the ID/Vallee Control System...

Somewhere in the thread I mentioned that Vallee had (before NIDS, I think) gone to SRI and 'studied' with Ingo Swann - I conjectured whether Vallee had hopes of perhaps working out a way to 'remote view' his Control System i.e. it's originating 'dimension'...

(The thread promptly got side-tracked and by the time it 'got back', I'd forgotten about this line of thought).



posted on Mar, 23 2014 @ 09:43 PM
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reply to post by Willtell
 

You couldn't possibly have 'really' read my post or you would have noticed that I was agreeing with you -
re: The lack of 'real' knowledge (which, I repeat, Vallee admits to) as to the exact nature of UFOs..

And you may have read his stuff, but you couldn't have really 'attended' to it or you would know that Vallee is not the least like what you've described here - This is in no way an "arrogant" man !! (Springer knows him personally and can attest to that).

How the heck have you got through this many pages and still have no idea 'who' this man is? Because first and foremost, he is a gentleman! Second, he is that rarity of rarities - an exceptionally open minded scientist...

Let me tell you, I have been reading scientist's works, articles, and interviews for longer than you've been born (I'd bet), and I have never, NEVER, come across a scientist more dedicated to remaining uninfluenced by dogma and to leaving the doors of 'true scientific' possibility wide open!!!

------
Now, you are misunderstanding the 'way' I have used the word "occult"...the word is defined 'hidden' and if you would read (and 'attend to') the last two paragraphs in my post to you, you would understand that it is used in a completely different context than "Aviary [pseudo] mystics"...

Would you deny that ID could be considered 'occult' by virtue of the fact that it is "hidden" from our perceptions?

And, if you have read "Forbidden Science II", you did not 'attend' to the fact that Vallee never 'indulged' in "mysticism"...He simply was willing to explore 'all' avenues of possibility as to the nature of the control system's inter-dimensionality...He had very quickly come to the conclusion that it was a dead end, but LaVey had many 'esoteric' connections so Vallee remained in contact in case any 'leads' might one day turn up among them...

And finally (!!), If you have such abject disdain for Jacque Vallee why on earth did you join a thread dedicated to discussion (and NOT 'denigration') of the primary conclusion of the man's decades of research into 'phenomena'?!?

edit on 23-3-2014 by lostgirl because: Viva Vallee!!!

edit on 23-3-2014 by lostgirl because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 23 2014 @ 09:50 PM
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reply to post by Brotherman
 


You’re not reading closely what I posted.

Read it again



posted on Mar, 23 2014 @ 10:02 PM
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Lostgirl - you should check out the Network Revolution. It might be something you can unpack better than I can. Vallee seems interested in applying Clive Backster's plant perception stuff to computer networking...at least if I'm reading it correctly. If it didn't pan out, Vallee might regard it as an old embarrassment and that could explain why he took the book off his website.



posted on Mar, 23 2014 @ 10:10 PM
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reply to post by Willtell
 

Really sorry, but I had to edit my most recent reply to you - please re-read...
edit on 23-3-2014 by lostgirl because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 23 2014 @ 10:44 PM
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reply to post by lostgirl
 


No problem if you don’t think I understood you. I think I do…

I understand occult means hidden.

Of course ID can be considered occult. Occult of course is relative to this in a broad sense since knowledge of many things is hidden by nature.

I think I have read enough of Vallee to understand him.
But to understand a person one has to look at their associations as well.
And his science background must be considered because it’s where his arrogance comes from; it’s not a personal thing.

All good Lostgirl there is no big dispute here.

Occult, as you say, simply means hidden, metaphysics, though, is the science behind what we call spirituality. There is where Vallee and his crew could get real info if they studied it, imo. Of course without their ambition to abuse people with it.

To give out a little something here. I posted earlier that one of our foremost religions has as its first principle not a belief in God but a belief in the UNSEEN.
The Arabic word Gaibi( unseen). That in itself is saying a lot if you could get around the religious content of it and see it as a metaphysical principle and not anything to do with religious dogma.

Anyway, in metaphysics there is an aphorism:
4 worlds, 7 levels, and infinite dimensions.

If these entities where ID in any form I don’t believe they could be seen easily

This is so because someone in dimension A CAN’T see anyone in dimension B and vise versa.

Unless you are talking about John Keel type ghosts and spooks, but these are very likely in our dimension inside the grid of our world.



posted on Mar, 24 2014 @ 01:10 PM
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Looks like we have circled back around a couple of times, and I have a feeling I'm one of the ones being referred to when 'being buried in links' is mentioned. Oh well


What shape does a moving circle generate?

A spiral

Energy spirals down from the next higher level of existence, the larger consciousness field I have referenced, to this level in which we find ourselves interacting in.


Here, the “implicate order” of the second-order quantum field provides the vital energy structure and is the archetype for nature. It is a principal field, if not the ultimate essence of living beings, and can direct organic structure to be part of a network. Ultimately, the whole human system may be able to be influenced by the greater field which can be defined as a consciousness quantum field that works like a hologram in its ongoing expanding nature and where “image constructions” of super-consciousness also become known.


The higher levels of reality contain the paradigms that are expressed in the lower levels to which they apply. The universe we see is an interference pattern generated by the interactions of our thoughts and the greater field in which we are embedded.


The part containing the whole, thus, becomes a dominant pattern in nature. What was once the greatest mystery of biology, the human body, is gradually yielding up its secrets. Humanity is more than flesh; it is a continuous transducer or “biotransducer” of energies which can transform our thoughts into both positive and negative events in life. We can grasp some aspects of how our mind works beyond the normal localized gathering, storage and retrieval of information when there are epiphany experiences or the unfoldment of knowledge beyond our normal senses. What is implied is that, through a greater consciousness network, we can gain access to information around the world, even to different consciousness universes. When we begin to become aware of the process, we discover that our minds are omnidirectional. Understanding our interconnectedness releases us from our limitations and makes us part of the greater totality.


More than likely everyone in this thread has been the recipient of "knowledge beyond our normal senses" and it is this that has lead us to an ever increasing desire for much more of such knowledge.

So how does this help us in our "testing the control system" that we have discussed but not seemed to have come any closer to a how.


A person who is able to become more aware of the field can ultimately move into more sophisticated levels of networking, and reach super-mentally into the quantum field to advanced or higher evolutionary consciousness we call “Mind-2” (Hurtak, 1973). It is fitting that the basic premise for the existence of a higher consciousness/quantum field may help change the old philosophical and theoretical beliefs of ‘this is all there is’ by the expanded knowledge of who we are as entities that can see and function beyond this reality. Only by the acceptance of higher levels of existence and a universal consciousness can we reach out to utilize the transduction mechanisms of the mental matrix and its recording patterns, to explain the ongoing nature of the universe around us.


The italicized portion refers to what others have mentioned in regards to having 'belief' and 'willingness' for these types of phenomena to manifest. Those particular thoughtforms create patters in the mind which then filter down and set up the wave functions within the wiring of the brain in order to be able to be receptive to this 'higher knowledge.'

To that end, I put much thought (intention and willingness to be open) as to what we could do to assist in that goal and upon one evening of reflection, I was 'given' a set of blueprints if you will. I can give more details of this if anyone is interested as it relates to the 'experiment' we've discussed a few times.

All emphases mine

And yes, all of the quoted text comes from the contactee Hurtak:

The Cosmology of Consciousness: Understanding Our Interconnectedness
By James J. Hurtak, Desiree Hurtak


Take a look at the references, however:


Aspect, Alan, Dalibard, J. and G. Roger (1982) “Experimental Test of Bell’s Inequalities Using Time-Varying Analyzers,” Physical Review Letters, 49 (25), pp. 1804-1807.

Baldwin, Geoff S. Sergey Leikin, John M. Seddon, and Alexei A. Kornyshev (2008) “DNA Double Helices Recognize Mutual Sequence Homology in a Protein Free Environment” J. Phys. Chem. B, 112 (4), pp. 1060-1064.

Bancel, Peter A. and Nelson, Roger D. (2008) “The GCP Event Experiment: Design, Analytical Methods, Results.” J. Scientific Exploration, Vol. 22 (3), pp/ 309-333.

Bierman, Dick (2003) “Does consciousness collapse the wave-packet?” Mind and Matter Vol 1(1) pp. 45-57.

Bohm, David (1952) “A Suggested Interpretation of the Quantum Theory,” in Physical Review 85(2), p. 186.

Bohm, David and Hiley, Basil (1974) On the Intuitive Understanding of Non-Locality as Implied by Quantum Theory. Monograph preprint. London: Birkbeck College, University of London.

Dennett, Daniel C. (1991) Consciousness explained. Boston: Little Brown.

Fröhlich, Herbert (1968) “Long-range coherence and energy storage in biological systems.” Int. J. Quantum chem. Vol. 2, pp. 641-649.

Gariaev, Peter, et al. (2000) The DNA-wave biocomputer. Moscow: MGU. Presented at Liege, Belgium.

Gangadean, Ashok K. (1998) “Between Two Worlds: The Emergence of Global Reason” In Revisioning Philosophy Series Vol. 17, New York and Bern: Peter Lang.

Hall J., Kim C., McElroy B., and Shimony A. (1977) “Wave-packet reduction as a medium of communication.” Foundations of Physics 7, pp. 759-767.

Hameroff, Stuart (2006) The entwined mysteries of anesthesia and consciousness,Anesthesiology 105, pp. 400-412.

—— (2003) Conversations with at the Quantum Mind 2003 Conference, Tucson Convention Center, Tucson, Arizona.

—— (1998) Quantum computation in brain microtubules? The Penrose-Hameroff ‘Orch OR’ model of consciousness, Philosophical Transactions Royal Society London (A) 356, pp. 1869-1896.

—— Hameroff, Stuart R. (1996) “Conscious Events As Orchestrated Space-Time Selections.” Journal of Consciousness Studies, 3(1), pp. 36-53.

Hurtak, J.J. (1973) Electromedicine and the Fourth-State of Matter. Paper presented in the Proceedings. Los Altos, CA: The Academy of Parapsychology and Medicine.

Hurtak, J.J. and Hurtak, Desiree (2006) Seeing Humanity as an Open-Ended System, Future History 5(1), pp. 7-10.

Hurtak, J.J. and Hurtak, Desiree (2007) “Consciousness, Coherence and Quantum Entanglement.” Quantum Mind 2007 Conference, Salzburg, Austria, July 2007.

Jahn, Robert (1982) “The Persistent Paradox of Psychic Phenomena: An Engineering Perspective.” Proceedings of the Institute of Electronic and Electrical Engineers. Vol. 70, pp. 136-170.

Noë, A., and Thompson, E. (2004) “Are there neural correlates of consciousness?” Journal of Consciousness Studies 11, pp. 3-28.

Penrose, R. (1994) Shadows of the Mind: A Search for the Missing Science of Consciousness. New York: Oxford University Press.

Pribram, Karl (1991) Brain and Perception: Holonomy and Structure in Figural Processing. New Jersey: Lawrence Eribaum Associates.

Pylkkänen, Paavo T. I. (2007) Mind, Matter and the Implicate Order. Berlin: Spring
edit on 24-3-2014 by jadedANDcynical because: typo



posted on Mar, 24 2014 @ 01:32 PM
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reply to post by jadedANDcynical
 


Thank you for that post, AND listing the link!
I have gleaned so much information from the 'copy-and-paste' that I wouldn't otherwise have access to,and the required 'links' are opening worlds I didn't even know existed!

I find myself refraining from posting my thoughts now, as it seems to be irritating to others who don't have any similar views. I defer to the much higher intellect, and maybe, if I can absorb enough 'formal' knowledge, I will be able to add something complex and obscure enough in the future to satisfy the requirements of a worthy post.


There seems to be a gridlock that is chaffing nerves.....somebody needs to 'poke the hive' and get things stirred up a bit!



posted on Mar, 24 2014 @ 02:43 PM
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I’m going to make this real simple without sounding didactic.

I posted above the concept of the 4 worlds.

Each world is reflective of the higher realm.

We know this first world very well its called BODY, associated with the ordinary physical material world

The second would be the world of psychic powers associated with the mental sphere of the MIND. We all know these very well the world of the ordinary senses

It is the other 2 that we are basically cut off from perceptively

They are the world of the Spiritual powers or world of the domination SOUL

And then the highest world is the world of the un-manifest or sovereign power--SPIRIT

BODY/MIND
SOUL/SPIRIT

Everything in the lower 3 worlds reflects what goes on in the highest world of the Sovereign power or SPIRIT

NOTHING doesn’t in same way reflect that higher realm, if it didn’t it wouldn’t exist.

THIS IS ONE OF THE MEANINGS OF AS ABOVE SO BELOW

It is the two higher worlds that humans are cutoff from or have become perceptively detached from.

How this connects to this threads topic:

It is likely that the aliens are very much more in-tune with the two upper worlds.

As I said earlier, imo, the “control system” is inside of us!



posted on Mar, 24 2014 @ 02:58 PM
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Now these so called aliens have demonstrably manifested occult powers and have dominated people in these abductions.

I contend the above formula is the conceptual and theoretical reason for this.

That is why the aviary boys are hanging around the Shaman looking for magical powers.

But, imo, they don’t realize that this is the very reason they don’t and can’t get magical powers that emanate from themselves other than outward physical things such as guns and atomic bombs and i-phones, etc.

They have to understand that these powers to the mystic are only by products of the quest to know God.

The basic problem with Valles “control system” relating to his people, the Governments and the aviary boys is that they can’t get that inward power all they can get is outward power that is very very transitory.



posted on Mar, 24 2014 @ 03:53 PM
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Willtell
Now these so called aliens have demonstrably manifested occult powers and have dominated people in these abductions.

I contend the above formula is the conceptual and theoretical reason for this.

That is why the aviary boys are hanging around the Shaman looking for magical powers.

But, imo, they don’t realize that this is the very reason they don’t and can’t get magical powers that emanate from themselves other than outward physical things such as guns and atomic bombs and i-phones, etc.

They have to understand that these powers to the mystic are only by products of the quest to know God.

The basic problem with Valles “control system” relating to his people, the Governments and the aviary boys is that they can’t get that inward power all they can get is outward power that is very very transitory.


I think it is a false dichotomy to say the ufonauts are ID or alien. They seem to be both. And their science is a few orders of magnitude above ours.

One of the great turning points in technology was when physical matter was married to electromagnetism; energy was made to move matter. This marriage, resulting in the electric motor and such things, has revolutionised the world.

Another great leap forward in technology was the marriage of electromagnetism with computing. Now we have machines controlled by energy and software. A technological menage a trois, if you will.

But there is another element in alien technology; psychic power. They have managed to marry psychic power to matter and can control matter and energy with the power of the mind. This makes them magicians. But there is a difference between magic and true spirituality. Magic is self serving and dangerous. Sprirtuality is above self service.

These are the things Vallee are wrestling with. The ufonauts seem to be both spiritual and physical.
edit on 24-3-2014 by EnPassant because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 24 2014 @ 04:54 PM
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reply to post by jadedANDcynical
 


Excellent contribution!! And I would very much like to see your "blueprints"!



posted on Mar, 24 2014 @ 04:57 PM
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reply to post by EnPassant
 


Totally agree...It is highly probable based on the huge (sometimes contradictory) variability in 'experiences' that there is more than one 'type' or cause of all the phenomena we 'call' ufo/alien...



posted on Mar, 24 2014 @ 05:06 PM
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Here is a possible theory of how some aspects of Psychic communication could work. The human (and possibily other animals) nervous system emits radio waves. What if the Aliens have biologically manipulated themselves to the point where their nervous systems can recieve and decode these radio waves and in return transmit radio waves (using their own nervous system) which we can recieve and decode, as a voice inside our "head" so to speak. If aliens can communicate using their nervous system and radio waves then they won't need to talk, to any animal.



posted on Mar, 24 2014 @ 05:50 PM
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lostgirl
reply to post by EnPassant
 


Totally agree...It is highly probable based on the huge (sometimes contradictory) variability in 'experiences' that there is more than one 'type' or cause of all the phenomena we 'call' ufo/alien...


When people approach ufology their interpretation of it is almost inevitably coloured by their world view. The materialist cannot help but see them in material terms. A spiritually oriented person will be more open to the spiritual aspects. One great debate that neither science nor philosophy has been able to answer is whether we are bodies or spirits; whether the mind is just the brain or a non physical entity. I think it is important for people to try to answer this question because this will determine the parameters within which they interpret the ufonauts.



posted on Mar, 24 2014 @ 07:34 PM
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reply to post by EnPassant
 


Indeed that psychic power is based on their relationship with a higher reality I believe. Something humans have lost and most of our physical toys like cell phones are replicas of what we did in the primordial past as a simple psychic exercise. We are not using the power of our soul and spirit.




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