Dr. Jacques Vallee ~ The Control System

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posted on Jan, 24 2014 @ 07:56 PM
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Dr. Jacques Vallee has called himself a "heretic among heretics" for proposing his own musings and theories which collectively offer what he has called the Interdimensional Hypothesis (IDH) as opposed to the Extraterrestrial Hypothesis (ETH).


For the purposes of this discussion, it doesn't matter what one might feel about either theory but, rather, to examine some specific--though somewhat vague--statements that he has made about seeing the UFO phenomenon as a "control system" that can somehow be manipulated and studied.

These statements have kind of sat by themselves for many years without much comment from the ufological community. What I'm hoping for in this thread is commentary from my ATS family on just what he might be getting at and to determine if such a "manipulation" has been tested.

Before we look at those statements, we'll take a quick mini-biographical look at Dr. Vallee for those that might not be as familiar with him or his work.


Jacques Fabrice Vallée (born September 24, 1939 in Pontoise, Val-d'Oise, France) is a venture capitalist, computer scientist, author, ufologist and former astronomer currently residing in San Francisco, California.

In mainstream science, Vallée is notable for co-developing the first computerized mapping of Mars for NASA and for his work at SRI International on the network information center for the ARPANET, a precursor to the modern Internet. Vallée is also an important figure in the study of unidentified flying objects (UFOs), first noted for a defense of the scientific legitimacy of the extraterrestrial hypothesis and later for promoting the interdimensional hypothesis…


…Vallée was born in Pontoise, France. He received his Bachelor of Science degree in mathematics from the Sorbonne, followed by his Master of Science in astrophysics from the University of Lille. He began his professional life as an astronomer at the Paris Observatory in 1961. He was awarded the Jules Verne Prize for his first science-fiction novel in French.

He moved to the United States in 1962 and began working in astronomy at the University of Texas at Austin, at whose MacDonald Observatory he worked on NASA's first project making a detailed informational map of Mars.

In 1967, Vallée received a Ph.D. in computer science from Northwestern University. While at the Institute for the Future from 1972 to 1976 he was a principal investigator on the large NSF project for computer networking, which developed one of the first conferencing systems, Planning Network (PLANET),[1] on the ARPANET many years before the Internet was formed.

He has also served on the National Advisory Committee of the University of Michigan College of Engineering and was involved in early work on artificial intelligence.

Vallée has authored four books on high technology, including Computer Message Systems, Electronic Meetings, The Network Revolution, and The Heart of the Internet.

Along with his mentor, astronomer J. Allen Hynek, Vallée carefully studied the phenomenon of UFOs for many years and served as the real-life model for the character portrayed by François Truffaut in Steven Spielberg’s film Close Encounters of the Third Kind.[2]

Dr. J. Allen Hynek & Jacques Vallee

His research has taken him to countries all over the world. Considered one of the leading experts in UFO phenomena, Vallée has written several scientific books on the subject.


en.wikipedia.org...ée

Okay, now on to the "control system" as excerpted from a Jerome Clark interview with Jacques Vallee originally published in FATE Magazine, 1978


An engineer observing a computer would want to look at the back and open up the boxes. He would want to take a probe and examine the different parts of the computer. But there is another way of looking at it; the way of the programmer, who wants to sit in front of the computer and analyze what it does, not how it does it.

That's my approach. I want to ask it questions and see what answers I get. I want to interact with it as an information entity.

Whenever Dr. Vallee talks about that aspect, he gets intentionally vague. He does mention the "social aspect." He also talks about the witnesses and experiencers. With that in mind we continue:


There are different kinds of control systems - open ones and closed ones - and there are tests you can apply to them to find out what kind of control system you're inside. That leads to a number of experiments you can do with the UFO phenomenon…


...The control system concept can be tested by a small group of people - you don't need a large organization or a lot of equipment - and you can start thinking about active intervention in the phenomenon.

I hesitate to be too specific. I'm speaking, as I'm sure you understand, of the attempted manipulation of UFO manifestations. It's a pretty tall order.

Why does Vallee hesitate to be "too specific?"


We're assuming that there is a feedback mechanism involved in the operations of the control system; if you change the information that's carried back to that system, you might be able to infiltrate it through its own feedback.

So, What is Doc Jock getting at? Has the "control system" theory been tested?


Jacques Vallee interview with Jerome Clark

Dr. Vallee's Personal Website

edit on 24-1-2014 by The GUT because: (no reason given)




posted on Jan, 24 2014 @ 08:23 PM
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reply to post by The GUT
 


Yes it has been tested, it was in the film Close Encounters....


Too-tee-too--too-too (complete with hand signs)


If it has been tested the results will probably remain in some top secret facility somewhere. Although it's interesting to add that with all the F.O.I. requests and declassifications, nothing has been mentioned or touched on so far (that I know of).

Usage of light instantly springs to my mind with his idea.
edit on 24-1-2014 by Zcustosmorum because: (no reason given)


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posted on Jan, 24 2014 @ 08:27 PM
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I don't think the phenomenon would have captured his attention for so many years if he wasn't finding 'something' there.
I wonder why he feels the need to choose his words so carefully.

It almost seems like he wants to talk about it, but he isn't 'allowed' to.
S&F



posted on Jan, 24 2014 @ 08:56 PM
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so it's like a trojan horse?
get in there and infect or destroy them?



posted on Jan, 24 2014 @ 09:08 PM
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I think he want to be incredibly specific for the sake of professionalism and credibility. Even though, he is possibly the most credible.

Also, seeing as how technology and science is constantly being improved, and questioned. We as humans can only understand as much as we can, or want too. It might take a supercomputer 40 minutes to simulate a one second brain process,
but they can handle tedious task with no problem, compared to our limited, while unlimited biology.

Anything that has the technology to travel the vast distances of space, as well as knowing what technologies are common outside our region of knowing, and has survived long enough. Is a bit out of our league to understand all at once.

Thanks for the read.



posted on Jan, 24 2014 @ 09:28 PM
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nugget1
I don't think the phenomenon would have captured his attention for so many years if he wasn't finding 'something' there.
I wonder why he feels the need to choose his words so carefully.

It almost seems like he wants to talk about it, but he isn't 'allowed' to.
S&F



He seems careful not to use buzzwords as they distract by drawing fire and tracking the readers down the buzz word lane. He wants the reader to draw the conclusion by agitating the brain as with were.

But in truth he does draw some conclusions, opinions. Like William Cooper was full of crap. The plethora of military intelligence folks involved in UFO nonsense.



posted on Jan, 24 2014 @ 09:56 PM
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nugget1
...I wonder why he feels the need to choose his words so carefully.

It almost seems like he wants to talk about it, but he isn't 'allowed' to.

Hiya, Ms. Nugget! Thank you for stopping in and pointing that out. I get that same impression and will elaborate on it more later. Interesting that Dr. Vallee hints strongly at that himself in the second volume of his very revealing Forbidden Science:


Too bad I can't say more in Messengers. As Frank Pace pointed out, I am condemned to understatements.


Forbidden Science II



posted on Jan, 24 2014 @ 09:57 PM
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Let’s get to the key terms and ideas in this very intellectually inclined fellow:
Control system

Idea that the alien events are connected to affecting our consciousness or someone’s consciousness.

FEEDBACK LOOP

Put in easily understood terms, he seems to be suggesting that some ET force may be putting on a show to form psychological impressions.

Valles analogy of a control system:



“Suppose you're walking through the desert and you see a stone that looks as though it was painted white. A thousand yards later you see another stone of similar appearance. You stop and consider the matter. Either you can forget it or - if you're like me - you can pick up the stone and move it a few feet. If suddenly a bearded character steps out from behind a rock and demands to know why you moved his marker, then you know you've found a control system.”


To me this is very revealing and confirms in my mind his input into the human control systems response to the AlienUFO phenomena.

He says this


“It may turn out that there is a control system which is operated by extraterrestrials. But that's only one possibility.”

And this is the smoking gun:


“I hesitate to be too specific. I'm speaking, as I'm sure you understand, of the attempted manipulation of UFO manifestations. It's a pretty tall order.”

Isn’t this very familiar!

Cleary, as I suggested numerous times, Valle MAY have been an adviser to the “human control system” GUT calls the “Gubmint” on various methodologies utilized in and around the time of this very interview, in trying to do just what he is saying here in obscure terms because he is bound to silence. about specifics" I HESITATE TO BE TOO SPECIFIC"

WHY NOT BE SPECIFIC unless you are hiding something?

Here’s what he says:

“My point is that you can't be sure until you do something. Then you realize that what you were seeing, the thing that looked absurd and incongruous, was really a marker for a boundary that was invisible to everybody else until you discovered it because you looked for a pattern. I think that's exactly what we have to do with UFOs. We have to do something that will cause them to react. And I don't mean building landing strips in the desert and waiting out there to welcome the space brothers.”
FEEDBACK LOOP?

How would our “control system” the US gov intercede within the “Alien” control system to affect it?

Valle again:

“Vallee: I hesitate to be too specific. I'm speaking, as I'm sure you understand, of the attempted manipulation of UFO manifestations. It's a pretty tall order. We're assuming that there is a feedback mechanism involved in the operations of the control system; if you change the information that's carried back to that system, you might be able to infiltrate it through its own feedback.”

This sounds very, very familiar: an abstract taken to a reality we all know.
edit on 24-1-2014 by Willtell because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 24 2014 @ 10:46 PM
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Willtell
Let’s get to the key terms and ideas in this very intellectually inclined fellow:
Control system

Idea that the alien events are connected to affecting our consciousness or someone’s consciousness.

FEEDBACK LOOP

Put in easily understood terms, he seems to be suggesting that some ET force may be putting on a show to form psychological impressions.


Whass'up, Willltell?! In moving forward, I don't think it much matters whether we are talking ET or ID. Vallee has stated time and again that he believes we are dealing with a non-human form of intelligence that exhibit physical characteristics.

Where we might start to understand this conundrum a little better in regards to Vallee's thinking, is by looking at the beginnings of his control system theory. Admittedly it gets quite esoteric, but at the same time his ideas do seem to have influenced elements of the government who also have an interest(s) in the phenomenon.

More from Forbidden Science, Journal II:


““Back in 1961 I published a science-fiction novel in which I imagined luminous spheres going through walls. Now Geller and Vaughan are seeing such spheres. The following year I published another novel in which the world became twisted when a young scientist watched his spoon bending in front of his eyes, now Uri is doing the same thing in your lab…



….Gordon Creighton thinks that witnesses are out of their bodies at the time of the event, hence the similarity with occult traditions. I told him that Passport to Magonia was being misunderstood by Americans, who seem unable to grasp the mythic power of the phenomenon, beyond its physical reality. ““People misunderstand the word myth””, he said. ““They think of a myth as something that isn't true. They can't understand that, on to contrary, a myth is that which is truer than truth.”…



Bergier's scholarship covers an extraordinary scope of the weird. Jacques Bergier: We came back to ufology. ““What conclusions can we draw?”” He asked rhetorically. ““First, what we call reality is far more malleable than we thought. Why is reality so malleable? Simply because it's not the real reality! We've all been hypnotizing ourselves.”..

When it comes to the paranormal Bergier is a formidable source. Twice he played a historical role: First as a member of the Intelligence network that found the Nazi rocket base at Peenemunde (His old nemesis Werner von Braun, has just died) and later when he saved De Gaulle from a diplomatic mistake about Pierrelatte. American spy planes were flying over this nuclear plant, taking reconnaissance photographs. Furious, De Gaulle wanted the planes shot down. Bergier argued they were only interested in Pierrelatte because the Chinese were building a plant on the same model.

Jacques Bergier

…““Somebody should concentrate on the Gestapo archives,”” he added. Jacques Bergier had spoken to me in the same way, with a sense of painful foreboding. ““Those Nazi thugs knew a lot of things. They had electromagnetic devices that affected both the physical and the psychic….

He spoke warmly of Invisible College but chided me for not pursuing some of the reactions I had noted among close encounter witnesses. Many of them have felt a peculiar pain at the base of the skull: that could be an epileptic symptom, he said, referring me to a paper before the Academy of Medicine.
“
“Could this result from an artificial form of epilepsy?”” I asked.

““Certainly,”” he answered. ““You're on the right track. You'll find it isn't too hard to make people hear voices. I know a fellow named Klein, who built such a device.”” He gave me the frequencies.

Over dinner at a Chinese restaurant he pursued the subjects of labyrinths, learning and control systems, an idea from Invisible College that fascinates him. ““There are two types of labyrinths, of course,”” I pointed out to him. ““Some are closed, some are open.”..



posted on Jan, 24 2014 @ 10:47 PM
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Found this, I think it's absolutely correct. We've been going about this all wrong, playing photographic bingo with fuzzy UFO photos
writing off contactees as crazy and the ever popular implant search. Our efforts should be more intelligence gathering and analysis.
We're being "played" by something but we will never figure out what that something is until we stop reacting and begin forcing things.

Quote:
Jacques Valley, in his book Messengers of Deception, invents a conversation with a “Major Murphy”, a fictional U.S. Intelligence operative to make a point:

“What makes you think that UFOs are a scientific problem?”

I replied with something to the effect that a problem was only scientific in the way it was approached, but he would have none of that, and he began lecturing me. First, he said, science had certain rules. For example, it has to assume that the phenomenon it is observing is natural in origin rather than artificial and possibly biased. Now, the UFO phenomenon could be controlled by alien beings.

“If it is,” added the Major, “then the study of it doesn’t belong in science. It belongs in Intelligence.”

Meaning counterespionage. And that, he pointed out, was his domain.

“Now, in the field of counterespionage, the rules are completely different.” He drew a simple diagram in my notebook. “You are a scientist. In science there is no concept of the ‘price’ of information. Suppose I gave you 95 per cent of the data concerning a phenomenon. You’re happy because you know 95 per cent of the phenomenon. Not so in Intelligence. If I get 95 per cent of the data, I know this is the ‘cheap’ part of the information. I still need the other 5 per cent, but I will have to pay a much higher price to get it. You see, Hitler had 95 per cent of the information about the landing in Normandy. But he had the WRONG 95 PER CENT!”


“Are you saying that the UFO data we use to compile statistics and to find patterns with computers are useless?” I asked. “Might we be spinning our magnetic tapes endlessly discovering spurious laws?”


“It all depends on how the team on the OTHER SIDE thinks. If they know what they’re doing, there will be so many cutouts between you and them that you won’t have the slightest chance of tracing your way to the truth. Not by following up sightings and throwing them into a computer. They will keep feeding you the information they want you to process. What is the only source of data about the UFO phenomenon? It is the UFOs themselves!"

Some things were beginning to make a lot of sense.

“If you’re right, what can I do? It seems that research on the phenomenon is hopeless, then. I might as well dump my computer into a river.”

“Not necessarily, but you should try a different approach. First you should work entirely outside of the organized UFO groups; they are infiltrated by the same official agencies they are trying to influence, and they propagate any rumor anyone wants to have circulated. In Intelligence circles, people like that are historical necessities. We call them ‘useful idiots.’ When you’ve worked long enough for Uncle Sam, you know he is involved in a lot of strange things. The data these groups get are biased at the source, but they play a useful role.

“Second, you should look for the irrational, the bizarre, the elements that do not fit: that’s what I have come to observe at this meeting tonight. Have you ever felt that you were getting close to something that didn’t seem to fit any rational pattern, yet gave you a strong impression that it was significant?”
dapht.blogspot.com...

Personally I'd start with finding contactee's who've fought back and got a reaction. If you look at the massive amount of anecdotal accounts of people saying the ET's are benign for example I'd be thinking what isn't being said is more important.



posted on Jan, 24 2014 @ 11:14 PM
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reply to post by The GUT
 


I can only analyze what you give me GUT.

In that piece Valley is being his usual over contextualizing, intellectualizing self…no problem with that. People do that for a reason...sometimes vanity...sometimes training and sometimes to hide stuff.

I could and will lay down the paranoia but, as I say, you got to give me a little more substance that that

His idea of ”control system” in that there was far from esoteric.

When I read him I see through him



posted on Jan, 24 2014 @ 11:20 PM
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Willtell
In that piece Valley is being his usual over contextualizing, intellectualizing self…no problem with that. People do that for a reason...sometimes vanity...sometimes training and sometimes to hide stuff.

And sometimes because they are brilliant.


Can you elaborate on what you mean by "over-contextualizing?"

Just for a little fun, check out Mr. Mask's Jacques Vallee "rap!" Y'all remember Mr. Mask?

edit on 24-1-2014 by The GUT because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 24 2014 @ 11:25 PM
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reply to post by The GUT
 


A further thought

When I hear control system I thought Vallee might have been on to something then I read this and all I see is his anal retentive controlling self behind all his over contextualizing " brilliance"

And the interviewer doesn’t even realize he is being manipulated. Valle ends up actually asking the questions and giving the answers all in one! Very controlling fellow.

You see his problem is that he doesn’t realize that these “aliens” may be more in control because they aren’t in control.

If he knows a little Buddhist theory, as he implies, then he aught to understand this

Show me some of his esoteric ideas I would like to see some.

I love to learn

edit on 24-1-2014 by Willtell because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 24 2014 @ 11:44 PM
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Willtell
reply to post by The GUT
 

Show me some of his esoteric ideas I would like to see some.

I love to learn

You might try this for starters:

Dr. J. Allen Hynek, Rosicrucianism, and UFOs


You see his problem is that he doesn’t realize that these “aliens” may be more in control because they aren’t in control.

Can you explain that, Will?



posted on Jan, 25 2014 @ 12:47 AM
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Good thread GUT. I'll be watching this one. It might also be interesting to have someone with better math skills check out the statistical work that Vallee uses.



posted on Jan, 25 2014 @ 01:06 AM
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I'm almost done reading Mirage Men, and I'm wondering if the symptoms of the 'Control System' could in fact be the convulsions and contortions which are applied from time to time by people like Doty, Kit Green, and the Bill Moore's, and Linda Moulton-Howes end up also fulfilling a function, albeit, perhaps unaware that they too are 'in the game', and perhaps they are the unwitting participants in this control system which may eventually devolve into a meme like the Alien Grey or Giorgio Tsoukalos's hair.

I know it's the wrong thread, but one pertinent comment stood out in Mirage Men. Essentially Pilkington says 'UFOs are a mental illness', and it certainly seems that its touch is very heavy upon those who rise to any degree of fame in the UFO club. Indeed Pilkington seems to question whether he too has started to be touched by the madness.

How many on ATS, or the old OM forums, or the productions of whom one will not speak, all seem to attract similar people playing similar head games? Perhaps these forums are also performing strategic leaks, as well as harassment. It seems that Doty is a good actor for the company, one who can convince people of anything (despite his history of lying in every shape and form), and is used over and over because he actually does a good job, at least for his handlers. Maybe a trick of the system as everyone thinks he's a liar, but he still manages to posit himself at the centre of many of the most important 'meme like' UFO events of the last 40 years.
edit on 25-1-2014 by cuckooold because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 25 2014 @ 01:43 AM
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Pretty much every formal group, and anybody ever in intelligence, I think is suspect as being likely more harm than help to anything we might call truth. Which may, inconveniently, be something of a variable, if a more complex definition of individual reality has any merit. I suspect that would only it make more horribly confusing.

I read something of Vallee's eons ago, can't even remember which one. I felt he was an intelligent and genuine inquirer though. The only other book that really made me feel that way was Thompson's "Alien Identities." I wish they'd re-release that without Streiber's foreword and with a different less embarrassing title. It's basically an overview of ancient vedic history and then some of modern stuff. It's obvious to anybody who has even a single functional brain cell that it's talking about the same stuff and all this isn't new. Really a worthy book. I admit I haven't read a ton to be expert on the genre though. I get more 'impression' from online than facts from books.

I think that Jung's conception of UFOs as archetypal is a little like the context here attributed to Vallee about myth. People who do not work with the archetypal-imaginal (not to be confused with imaginary, mind you, that coined word has a 3rd-frame meaning) worlds may not realize that there is a clear interdependency-of-existence and hence interaction between that world and what we think of as reality, and what we think of as our selves. I still have a lot to read about this, I'm only beginning but I think it's kind of the same model.

I suspect however that Vallee's reference to a control system is not just referring to the so-called aliens, who aren't remotely aliens if they've been around longer than even our present form of species has. How many eons must one live on a rock to be a homeboy. But also to governmental involvement, not only in direct attempts to manipulate related to this topic, but also in indirect attempts to use the elements of this topic as a good "cover memory" -- literally and figuratively -- for a lot of other, not alien at all, situations.



posted on Jan, 25 2014 @ 01:47 AM
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I always find it interesting how we always try to place the UFO into our framework of understanding, we place labels on the phenomena, and try to induce some order of understanding...all of which are theoretical and could be completely wrong. Since we can only deduce what is possible based upon our knowledge and understanding at the time. It may not be within the human mind to understand all that the phenomena is actually representing.



posted on Jan, 25 2014 @ 01:47 AM
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reply to post by The GUT
 


I was attracted to the control system term because it can imply something very deep regarding these Aliens or ET’s.

Control system, looking at it in this sense.

What do police in a social control system do when laws are broken in the extreme?
And sometimes they go undercover.

One reaction causes an opposite reaction

Anyone with any spiritual sense knows that the advent of atomic energy will draw a like reaction to itself.

Vallee talks so much about UFOs in terms of some kind of “social phenomena”. I could really get with that.


But to your question: Imo, the visitors may be a passive part of a powerful control system that sort of protects the integrity of that system and the biggest one I know is what we call the Solar System.



edit on 25-1-2014 by Willtell because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 25 2014 @ 01:57 AM
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Also…

Vallee talks so much about UFOs in terms of some kind of “social phenomena”. I could really get with that. Then he goes on to talk the same old control power trip that always leads me to seeing him as the sorcerers apprentice. But in 2014 the sorcerers apprentice is the wise scientist like him and the sorcerer is the government. He disappoints me when he veers to that angle seemingly all the time.

Vallee talks about Buddhism: the practitioners of this form of metaphysics gain real power through passivity or yin not yang.
Alien
Ali yin

The word ALI means most high

We know what Yin means
ALIYIN

This kind of philosophy, Buddhist, Taoist gains power through not only yin energy but by integration and the opposite to this or negative energy is separation and out of balance yang energy, the essence of the sorcerers on the planet

Vallee cant go down that road because he is so connected to the gov control apparatus who don’t want to be challenged in this regard…they want to keep their weapons of mass destruction and energy of ultimate destruction: nuclear energy and power.

Yin energy is vital because the over indulgence of yang energy
edit on 25-1-2014 by Willtell because: (no reason given)





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