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Dr. Jacques Vallee ~ The Control System

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posted on Mar, 31 2014 @ 07:43 PM
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ZetaRediculian

1ofthe9
Dunno if I pointed this out before, but if you look at all this weird stuff...a picture kind of emerges.

What if the government found out we are living in a simulation? Is that the real 'Core Story'? It certainly seems to fit all the shattered parts of the total picture - UFOs, 'the phenomenology' problem, remote viewing and Vallee's computer science stuff, Dan Smith's Eschatology...

What do you folks think?

I need to take baby steps! Are you talking 'The Matrix' or 'The Truman Show'? Or even one particular start trek episode? I think by default we live in a simulation in that phenomenological sense. Believe me, if I find out this is a simulation, I am going to be pissed! But really, who knows? I am really thinking about entertaining some ideas recently discussed. Tomorrow is a big day.


There is no important difference between a simulation and a universe.
It's just semantics.

KPB




posted on Mar, 31 2014 @ 09:27 PM
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ZetaRediculian
reply to post by lostgirl
 


OK. So let's look at a theory of consciousness electromagnetic theories of consciousness
I have been fascinated with this one for a while. Don't know a whole lot about it but it's basically that consciousness is an EM field. If consciousness is that simple, than we might have something.

I'm not sure where you're going re: The concept of 'purposeful' existential 'minds' = 'forces/entities'...

...and the linked theories, which refer specifically to the question of what causes the 'human' brain (in the physical sense - as in a hunk of meat) to 'be' conscious...i.e. that the brain generates an electromagnetic field which 'interacts' with it's individual processes thus 'creating' consciousness.



posted on Mar, 31 2014 @ 10:49 PM
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reply to post by lostgirl
 



I'm not sure where you're going re: The concept of 'purposeful' existential 'minds' = 'forces/entities'...

I'm not sure where I am going either. I am seriously going to try to understand what this means though. For some reason I am resistant to this idea and I need some way to "bridge that gap". So instead of going into my usual yappity yap about hallucinations and delusions and all that fun materialism stuff that will lead me here anyway, i figure why not just jump into it? It will be pretty novel for me. I imagine the, ....,the...entities, are comprised of some form of energy and they have to interact or influence me somehow? So if there is some quantum mind thing going on, maybe they can link in and upload their commands that way? I have no idea what I am saying.



posted on Apr, 1 2014 @ 11:55 AM
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edit on 1-4-2014 by Riddles because: Link didn't work


If anybody wants to read Vallee's book, "Forbidden Science –Volume 2" and you're on a tight budget, I found a free PDF copy of the book online. I downloaded the book last night and the link worked fine, tho' you may have to copy the link onto your navigator bar.

worldtracker.org/.../Jacques%20Vallee%20FORBIDDEN%20SCIENCE%202.pdf

Enjoy

edit on 1-4-2014 by Riddles because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 1 2014 @ 12:34 PM
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ZetaRediculian
reply to post by lostgirl
 
i figure why not just jump into it? It will be pretty novel for me. I imagine the, ....,the...entities, are comprised of some form of energy and they have to interact or influence me somehow? So if there is some quantum mind thing going on, maybe they can link in and upload their commands that way? I have no idea what I am saying.

Well, I applaud you for being willing to be open minded about it!!

Really we're all in that same 'place' of feeling that Vallee is right about there being some sort of consciousness (which he calls, the control system) 'behind the scenes' of material existence - but none of us knows anything about what 'form' that 'consciousness' is...
...whether it is some sort of gestalt mind/entity or a lot of individual ones..

There is a psychic component to it, we know - so I would imagine that to be indicative of some type of "energy"...This begs the question of whether the "control system" (we gotta think of a shorter 'name') is 'made of' energy or just 'utilizes' it in some form..



posted on Apr, 1 2014 @ 01:15 PM
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lostgirl

ZetaRediculian
reply to post by lostgirl
 
i figure why not just jump into it? It will be pretty novel for me. I imagine the, ....,the...entities, are comprised of some form of energy and they have to interact or influence me somehow? So if there is some quantum mind thing going on, maybe they can link in and upload their commands that way? I have no idea what I am saying.

Well, I applaud you for being willing to be open minded about it!!

Really we're all in that same 'place' of feeling that Vallee is right about there being some sort of consciousness (which he calls, the control system) 'behind the scenes' of material existence - but none of us knows anything about what 'form' that 'consciousness' is...
...whether it is some sort of gestalt mind/entity or a lot of individual ones..

There is a psychic component to it, we know - so I would imagine that to be indicative of some type of "energy"...This begs the question of whether the "control system" (we gotta think of a shorter 'name') is 'made of' energy or just 'utilizes' it in some form..


It seems to me that it is what is traditionally called spirits or souls. They seem to be spirits but they also seem to be bodies. Vallee also said that they may travel here through the Astral Plane. Perhaps, in the spirit world, their planet is 'nearer' than its physical image in this world.

They seem to have created a science that amounts to a marriage between physical and psychic energy - magic. Interestingly Kenneth Arnold, who had more sightings after his famous one, said that he felt the flying saucers he saw were aware of him.

The control system is nothing more - or less - than what is traditionally known as telepathy, esp, mind control, prophecy - the paranormal.



posted on Apr, 1 2014 @ 02:24 PM
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I have a theory that was basically inspired by one of Vallee's earlier works, "Messengers of Deception."

In that book Vallee discussed the curious peculiarities of the so called 'channeled message' which has ultimately become regarded as the bastard child of all things pertaining to Ufology. Most nuts and bolts researchers won't touch the subject out of fear it will somehow tarnish their vainglorious reputations and any information that comes through channeled sources gets automatically ignored.

Yet if the rumor mill coming from certain "Washington insiders" holds any element of truth, then Washington DC and the Pentagon is simply filled with individuals that are deeply involved with occult groups where channeling plays a large role in formulating their perceptions. And needless to say, it is certainly these groups that hold the puppet strings and manipulate the very real physical events that affect our world on a day to day basis. Like it or not, those folks are definitely part of a very real "control system."

What Vallee said about channeled messages struck home with me, and since I had no vainglorious reputation to protect, for years I read every channeled message I could get my hands on, but not because I was "a believer"; I was simply trying to figure out what the source was & how the mechanism behind the phenomenon worked.

What amazed me was the fact that Suzy NewAger from Eugene, Oregon who believed she was channeling in ETs from Zeta Reticuli would repeat the very same catch-lines and phrases, often even the same information as Damion Wizardworks living in Boston who claimed he was channeling in entities from Orion, who in turn was repeating information that was being channeled in from Pastor Iwanyourmoney in South Carolina who claimed he was channeling the dead from the spirit world and all of them in turn repeated some of the same catch-lines and so-called truths being channeled in by Guru Sumeru in Hollywood who claimed he was channeling in entities from the Great White Brotherhood. (Gosh. That entire paragraph was one sentence!)

And none of these people appeared to have any contact with or knowledge of any of the other folks who were receiving these similarly related and ever-so-curious messages.

I found it very strange, indeed.

One of the tentative conclusions I eventually arrived at was this; I believe that some sort of wavelength, probably in the ELF or ULF range, is being broadcast around the world and I think it qualifies as a "programming device" that is capable of bypassing the audio-visual centers of the human brain and communicates directly with the sub-conscious mind.

Basically, I think the SAME signal is being picked up by all human beings who, by virtue of their genetics seem to be "programmed to receive." The subconscious mind then "translates" the primary message according to the paradigms and beliefs the receiving individual can accept.

For a time I was quite convinced that the origins of the primary signal had to be connected in with the rather ominous group that dreamed up MKUltra and all the various ongoing mind manipulation programs that the Black Project Boys (BPBs) seem to love.

But ultimately, I had to reject that assumption based on the fact that the same signal appears to have been functioning and affecting human consciousness in deep antiquity as well.

I think the priests and priestesses at various oracle centers around the world picked up on and translated the very same signal. I think the kings and prophets that genuflected before the statue of Enlil at his ancient temple in Nippur received and translated the very same signal according to their own perceptions and belief systems.

I think every heartfelt investigator of the Great Pyramid who has spent a great deal of time in or around that mammoth edifice and reported receiving messages from Horace, Osirus or Ra was also picking up on the same primary signal that everybody else was reacting to.

In other words, I think the signal that ultimately results in channeled messages has been broadcast around the world for a very, very long time.

And ultimately I have concluded that the mechanism (and I do think the signal qualifies as mechanical) by which this signal is broadcast has to be intimately connected to the old temple-sacred site-leyline system, because it is the only thing on the planet that is big enough and has been around long enough to account for the phenomenon appearing in every age around the world since deep antiquity.



posted on Apr, 1 2014 @ 04:22 PM
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reply to post by Riddles
 

What an intriguing theory! Have you any conjectures as to 'who' would be doing such 'broadcasting' and/or 'why'?



posted on Apr, 1 2014 @ 07:15 PM
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lostgirl
reply to post by Riddles
 

What an intriguing theory! Have you any conjectures as to 'who' would be doing such 'broadcasting' and/or 'why'?



Thanks. Yep, I sure do have a few ideas on who or what is behind it, as well as why it was done and how it was accomplished.

But before I get into it, maybe I'd better tell you a bit about myself. I may be new to the ATS forum, but I'm not new to forums in general. In fact I recognize the names of several posters here at ATS as folks that used to belong to the old Atlantis Rising forum.

Basically, I've spent a lifetime investigating UFOs and Ancient History. I'm constantly reading and at any given time the floor around my computer is littered with books. These days I also do a lot of reading online. Because I am now retired, if I'm awake, I'm generally researching something. I figure if I keep on actively exploring maybe thee old gray matter and synaptic connections won't get too atrophied and I'd like that because when the time comes to exit this body, I'd like to be consciously aware of what's going on.

Anyway, if there is one single thing I can be absolutely certain of, it's the fact that the Sumerians, the Akkadians, the Egyptians, Phoenicians, Canaanites, Hebrews, Hittites and Elamite/Persians (etc.) were all different branches that came out of ancient India and the Indus Valley Civilization. Every god ever worshiped in the Near and Middle East is essentially a Vedic god and each of those deities went through one or more name changes, as so clearly prescribed in the "Nam-Shub of Enki".

deoxy.org...

I have read some commentary about the above poem suggesting it was a "magical text", but in my estimation, there was nothing magical about it. Gods, deities and overlords, as well as kings, queens, prophets and priests who had known identities in Vedic lands were instructed to change their names. Furthermore, the preponderance of evidence suggests that if they were they were to be known in more than one nation, they were to use a different name in every nation they were known in.

The reason was simple. It was done to create confusion within the ranks of the common people who, like the people of our present age, genuinely had good reason to suspect that some sort of shadowy "control group" was manipulating the events behind all the tremendous violence and unrest that the Near and Middle East has been forever famous for.

While I take for granted that one of the primary goals of the shadow control group was to manipulate religious belief systems, the focus was as much on global governance and especially on global trade as it was on religion. As far as I can establish, certainly all marine trade routes that ferried goods to the Near and Middle East as well as Western and Eastern Europe were essentially controlled by ancient India and the Indus Valley civilization.

For all the apparent differences in the ancient city/states and nations, the whole shebang was being manipulated by an underlying control system aimed at producing global governance, global trade and a global belief system.

For instance, do you think the Egyptians initiated the now nearly global belief that "the gods" ultimately came from Orion? If you do, you'd be wrong. The first "Orion" god was the Vedic Prajapati, a multiple deity complex, supposedly headed up by Vishnu.

en.wikipedia.org...

Prajapati's relationship to Orion can be found at the following link, along with, (guess what?) the ancient Vedic connections to Sirius along with several other "star gods."

starlab.com...

Nearly every UFO cult or belief in operation today has as its genesis an ancient star religion that initially appears to have been developed in ancient India. And primarily, those beliefs which have certainly come to fruition in the present-day UFO beliefs of millions around the world, were initially spread via the marine trade routes that operated throughout the Near and Middle East and expanded into Europe via the Mediterranean and the Black Sea.

Why? What's the big deal about "star religions?" Well, I think it's probably a very big deal, because if you just happen to be the nation that also evidently had a considerable fleet of Vimanas, (I suspect there is no need to elaborate on that one to any of you folks) then you've developed the perfect subterfuge to initiate a world-wide belief in powerful "extraterrestrial gods."

And since the average Joe had only a camel or a donkey to transport him from place to place, it's not too hard to imagine that "gods in UFOs" who "came from the stars" must have had a very serious impact on the people's beliefs.

Bear with me please, for I am just trying to set the stage at this point for my next post which will cover a far more curious aspect of the apparent "control mechanism"; one that results in channeled messages and manipulated belief systems.

I openly suggest that certain components of that curious mechanism may not be nearly as "occult" as we've been led to believe…

edit on 1-4-2014 by Riddles because: I hate typos



posted on Apr, 1 2014 @ 07:37 PM
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reply to post by lostgirl
 



Well, I applaud you for being willing to be open minded about it!!

Thanks. It's actually not that much of stretch for me but I think I have lost touch with something.



posted on Apr, 1 2014 @ 07:38 PM
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The work of Allan Greenfield, who wrote The Secret Rituals of the men in Black
www.scribd.com...
and Andrija Puharich, who was the first to contact THE NINE, www.theforbiddenknowledge.com... are the two writers and researchers who have covered this angle of UFOlogy.

In fact, the guy who hooked up Puharich with the NINE was a Vedic mystic named Dr Vinod.www.theforbiddenknowledge.com...

edit on 1-4-2014 by Willtell because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 1 2014 @ 07:59 PM
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Btw I really like Lostgrls tern ‘conjecture’ relating to the posters extrapolations.

I think it really puts the threads ideas in the proper perspective.

Understand that from metaphysical philosophy it is as if we are looking at reality with one eye open and one eye closed and trying to see it as it is.

The metaphysical philosophers aver that the path to opening up both eyes MUST be tread before an intelligent idea of reality can be ascertained.



posted on Apr, 2 2014 @ 12:19 AM
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In the ancient world, every single oracle temple evidently held a much revered "omphalos stone" thought to carry "messages from the gods". Most omphalos stones found displayed in various museums around the world are thought to be mere copies of the originals, which legends suggest were originally gem-encrusted.

" The Omphalos at Delphi came to be identified as the stone which Rhea wrapped in swaddling clothes, pretending it was Zeus. This was to deceive Cronus, his father, who swallowed his children so they could not grow up and depose him as he had deposed his own father, Uranus.

Omphalos stones were said to allow direct communication with the gods. Leicester Holland (1933) has suggested that the stone was hollow to channel intoxicating vapours breathed by the Oracle. Erwin Rohde wrote that the Python at Delphi was an earth spirit, who was conquered by Apollo, and buried under the Omphalos, and that it is a case of one god setting up his temple on the grave of another."

en.wikipedia.org...

The Hebrews wandering through the desert of the Sinai also had their own peculiar version of an omphalos which was none other than the famous Breastplate of Aaron. Those priests chosen to wear the breastplate also believed it allowed them direct communication with Yahweh. In fact, that breastplate held one specific stone for each specific tribe. Clearly the Hebrews believed that Yahweh was very capable of giving specific instructions to each of the twelve tribes independently.
Have you ever wondered why? And can any of us deny that in some mysterious way crystalline and microcrystaline substances were definitely connected to the phenomenon the ancients knew as "messages from god" but we now call "channeling"?

How come? What's the mechanism behind this ancient belief and is there any validity to it today?

I think there may be. For starters we all probably realize by now that each and every animate and inanimate thing on the planet vibrates at its own specific frequency or radiowave.

Even our very DNA vibrates its own frequency and it communicates this frequency throughout every cell in our bodies.

"In human genetics, the haplogroups most commonly studied are Y-chromosome (Y-DNA) haplogroups and mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA) haplogroups, both of which can be used to define genetic populations. According to research, Y-DNA is passed solely along the patrilineal line, from father to son, while mtDNA is passed down the matrilineal line, from mother to offspring of both sexes. It is believed that neither recombines, and thus Y-DNA and mtDNA change only by chance mutation at each generation with no intermixture between parents' genetic material." (en.wikipedia.org...)

Obviously, each haplogroup can be defined as a tribal gestalt, and it stands to reason that the Y-chromosomes and mitochondrial DNA of each haplogroup vibrates at a frequency specific to that tribe or group.

Today, we can measure the vibratory frequency of just about anything…

“In 1992, Bruce Taino of Taino Technology, an independent division of Eastern State University in Cheny, Washington, built the first frequency monitor in the world. Taino has determined that the average frequency of a healthy human body during the daytime is 62 to 68 Hz. When the frequency drops, the immune system is compromised. If the frequency drops to 58 Hz, cold and flu symptoms appear; at 55 Hz, diseases like Candida take hold; at 52 Hz, Epstein Bar and at 42 Hz, Cancer. Taino’s machine was certified as 100 percent accurate and is currently being used in the agricultural field today.” (cellphonesafety.wordpress.com...)

With no disrespect meant to Mr. Taino, I think there is ample reason to believe that he wasn't the first to develop a frequency monitor. I think any society capable of building vimanas, not to mention the awesome weapons spoken of in the Vedic texts, was equally capable of measuring frequencies. In fact that's an area that the Vedic mystics still stress to this day, and there is much that suggests frequency monitoring and manipulation had been developed to a very high degree in ancient India.

I have to admit, it wasn't Vallee, but Sitchin who first got me thinking along these lines. Now I don't often agree with Mr. Sitchin, in fact, I've been utterly appalled at some of the claims he's made, but occasionally the man said some things that seem relevant, and in this instance, it was Sitchin's rather long description of the Lugal-e text that sent my own synaptic connections into firing off in double-time. (The Wars of Gods and Men, pp 167-172)

No one needs to rely on Sitchin's translations. There is a fairly decent translation of the Lugal-e Text here: www.gatewaystobabylon.com...

Hands down, my favorite translation of this particular text was made by the highly esteemed late Thorkild Jacobsen, professor of Assyriology emeritus at Harvard University. I've got a copy of his translation in my home library. I count it among the best because Jacobsen does a better job of identifying the stones in this curious text and especially because he identifies the na stone (lines 479-476 in the online translation) with limestone.

Since we know that Assyria, Sumer, the Akkadians and Elamo-Persians built their temples and housing out of mud-bricks, we know that Ninurta's enemy, the mountain Asag, was not located in Mesopotamia. And since we know the Mesopotamians referred to ziggurats (and probably the Egyptian pyramids as well) as "mountain houses" of the gods, it stands to reason that the Asag refers to a stone ziggurat or pyramid in a region that generally built with stone.

Sitchin made claims that the text specifically deals with the Mesopotamian coalition of kings attacking the Great Pyramid of Egypt, but there is nothing in the text that necessarily supports that. The Asag could have just as well been one of Baal's temples in Lebanon, or perhaps one of the temples that belonged to the people of the Dead Sea area. We know for certain that both Sargon the Great and his grandson, Naram Sin led military campaigns all up and down the coast of the Levant. There is also significant evidence that Naram Sin led a military campaign into Egypt as well. Either of those two kings could have been seen as "avatars" or incarnations of Ninurta. After all, the gods were immortal through their chosen human avatars, most of whom were recognized as kings.

The location of "the Asag" could have been Egypt; we just don't know. The Lugal-e text does mention 'Magan' which Sitchin thought represented Egypt, but most scholars are convinced that Magan was in Oman. Also there is nothing in the text that indicates that the Asag was in Magan; it's just that stones from Magan are mentioned. Then again, maybe Sitchin was right. It is entirely possible that the Lugal-e text really is talking about the stones that once lined the chambers and grand gallery of the Great Pyramid.

What makes the Lugal-e text so important? It's because we've got one of the most important and influential Sumerian gods, Ninurta, Enlil's own heir apparent, picking up each stone listed and addressing it as if the stone represented an entire tribal gestalt or haplogroup of people.

(continued next post)


edit on 2-4-2014 by Riddles because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 2 2014 @ 12:49 AM
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That one threw me for a loop. What in the hell was the connection between a rock or a gemstone and a group of people? This question, much to my irritation, managed to nag me day and night for a number of months. And then one day, BONK, it hit me like a ton of bricks…

The only possible connection I can make between gemstones and tribes is if the piezoelectric vibratory field of a specific gemstone beat at the exact same frequency of the haplogroup DNA of a specific tribe.

Since Ninurta's enemy, "the Asag" seemed to represent a temple, and there is clear and undeniable evidence that most ancient temples were built upon key leyline intersections (earth navels), it stood to reason then that the increased electromagnetic or telluric energy associated with leylines might well be capable of increasing the vibratory piezoelectric frequency of various stones.

In other words, gemstones that might generally only "whisper" their message to a tribe, (or oracle) might beat with a louder or stronger field when subjected to the telluric electromagnetic energies known to be traveling down the leys.

Then I thought about the massive limestone blocks that make up most ancient temple structures that have managed to survive through the ages. Would the quartz silicon content in massive building stones also increase the strength of a specific frequency? For instance, the granite blocks that make up the King's Chamber of the Great Pyramid have been found to contain nearly double the amount of quartz silicon typically found in most granite.

For the life of me I cannot imagine why someone would specifically choose granite with such a high silicon content, unless the goal was to increase the strength of radiowave frequencies.

Have I inadvertently stumbled upon one of the primary secrets to the "messages of the gods? (Or "guides" as we are wont to call them in this day and age…)

Were messages being transmitted through specific crystalline and microcrystalline substances knowing that the frequency of the waves could be increased and was capable of communicating with our very DNA? And do the massive stone blocks that make up the structures still standing all up and down the known ley system that covers this earth STILL transmit those vibratory frequencies?

Could one transmit a message through stone and realistically expect it to transmit a message through our DNA and ultimately affect the sub-conscious mind?

If so, does this account for the peculiar phenomenon we call channeling?

Evidently, according to all I've read about modern-day mind manipulation techniques now being employed as "non-lethal weapons used for crowd control," the technology is indeed dependent upon the electromagnetic manipulation of specific frequencies.

And I think history just may be repeating itself. I think the ancient "control system" must have employed a very similar technology, albeit their method of employing that technology was somewhat different than what is being used today.

I don't know. Maybe I'm nuts. Never-the-less, I swear if you can run a message through a gemstone crystal that beats at a piezoelectric frequency that matches a DNA group, those members of the group who are inclined to pick up on such things are likely going to begin channeling messages or having visions.

And no, I don't think you've got to be Mr. ET, or some extra-dimensional spirit to make it happen.

I suspect "playing god" (or a guide) has been within the technological capabilities of certain human groups for a very, very long time now.

Just sayin…



posted on Apr, 2 2014 @ 01:52 AM
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Oops. I forgot something…

If Sitchin was correct in that the Lugal-e text deals specifically with events that took place in the Great Pyramid, then I don't think the so-called sacarphegus ever held the body of a dead Pharaoh. I think that stone box would have held the "tribal gemstone" of whichever tribe the Egyptians might have been trying to manipulate or influence at any given time.

I think they could change the stone of focus placed in the sacarphegus and change the basic message or change the stone and focus on a completely different tribe.

One of the most interesting Egyptian texts I've ever run across is called "The admonitions of Ipawer."

See now, things are done that never were done before,
The King has been robbed by beggers.
See, one buried as a hawk is…
WHAT THE PYRAMID HID IS EMPTY.
See now, the land is deprived of kingship
By a few people who ignore custom.
(Admonitions 7, 1-4)

That part about the Pyramid being empty just might have been the result of what Ninurta may have done, according to the Lugal-e text.

If that's what really happened, then the event had a huge impact on the entire Near and Middle East as well. The whole region went through an extreme period of massive human turmoil accompanied by famines.

If the Lugal-e does not describe events that took place in the Great Pyramid, then I'd suggest it took place at the location of the original temple that once stood at Baalbek.

In my opinion those two places qualify as the most powerful structures ever placed upon the world-wide ley system.

And of course, the Ley system connected every single temple ever placed on the Leys.

Personally, I'd say the entire system probably once qualified as a very effective "control system."

Maybe it still does…


edit on 2-4-2014 by Riddles because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 2 2014 @ 04:48 AM
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Riddles
I suspect "playing god" (or a guide) has been within the technological capabilities of certain human groups for a very, very long time now.

Just sayin…


Great posts. I would like to go into more detail on some of the points that you have raised but time is not on my side, so I am going to keep it briefly to the above quoted. If we consider the Palaeolithic belief structure to be that of 'god' being everywhere, in all things, ever present and easily located (available and recognisable to all), then the development of the Temple can be seen as a means of containment, or capture. In so doing, this permits control of access, facilitated by the re-enforcement that 'god' can only be found there by dogma and structuring of belief. Similarly, in terms of pastoralists, we have the notion of the portable 'god', that can be carried (and wielded) wherever the group goes. Either way, all about containment, and possession. The containment facilitates the creation of intermediaries; oracles, priests, anointed monarchs to speak/translate, and all other interactions with 'god', that occur outside of the temple, without the intermediary, are increasingly deemed heretical, demonic or satanic. The fear that that engenders, of social exclusion and persecution, leads to a 'forgetting' of the language by which 'god' communicates.

Perhaps?



posted on Apr, 2 2014 @ 12:11 PM
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KilgoreTrout

Riddles
I suspect "playing god" (or a guide) has been within the technological capabilities of certain human groups for a very, very long time now.

Just sayin…


Great posts. I would like to go into more detail on some of the points that you have raised but time is not on my side, so I am going to keep it briefly to the above quoted. If we consider the Palaeolithic belief structure to be that of 'god' being everywhere, in all things, ever present and easily located (available and recognisable to all), then the development of the Temple can be seen as a means of containment, or capture. In so doing, this permits control of access, facilitated by the re-enforcement that 'god' can only be found there by dogma and structuring of belief. Similarly, in terms of pastoralists, we have the notion of the portable 'god', that can be carried (and wielded) wherever the group goes. Either way, all about containment, and possession. The containment facilitates the creation of intermediaries; oracles, priests, anointed monarchs to speak/translate, and all other interactions with 'god', that occur outside of the temple, without the intermediary, are increasingly deemed heretical, demonic or satanic. The fear that that engenders, of social exclusion and persecution, leads to a 'forgetting' of the language by which 'god' communicates.

Perhaps?


No, not perhaps, but absolutely!

The "God is in all things" concept is something I suspect most of us have experienced. Like walking out into a beautiful meadow on a warm spring day and seeing God in the tender blade of grass, the butterfly, and the new little flower poking it's head up through the warm, brown earth. It's a wonderful feeling and experience and very real.

But if anything exemplifies the downside to that philosophy, I would suggest it can be found in many parts of the Old Testament. Because I've read so many of the ancient Near and Middle Eastern texts, I've reached the conclusion that many parts of the Old Testament were borrowed from earlier Mesopotamian texts. Those texts speak of Mesopotamian or Canaanite "gods" and tell of their deeds and tales. And some of those so called "deities" were real A-holes.

Many of those tales appear to have been simply rewritten and attributed to Yahweh. But to the early priesthood who believed that "God was in all things" and "There is only one God", perhaps there was nothing wrong with that. What they did was merely an extension of the belief system they embraced. Furthermore, they'd come out of Egypt, where Ra's priesthood in Heliopolis, (the biblical city of " On") typically absorbed the deeds, tales and titles of at least 75 different deities, so maybe the old Hebrew priesthood believed that what they did was simply the way it was done.

In the "God is in all things" concept you can take the words and deeds of Hitler, Charles Manson, and Genghis Khan and attribute them to "God" (with a capital G). And in my estimation, there is something very wrong with that.

In my view, if one is going to personify something as "God", then he, she or it MUST qualify as a good role model, or the whole thing falls apart.

In other words, one must be discerning.

Beginning with the reign of Naram Sin, (2254–2218 BCE) Mesopotamian kings were deified. They were no more "gods" than the average bloke belonging to the English "House of Lords." But in Mesopotamia, their words were always deemed "holy" and their priesthoods always claimed their kings represented "the god most high." Their deeds were always declared sacred.

Of course, their kings weren't any more "holy" than you, me or anybody else, but their priesthoods were pretty good spin doctors and the Jews exiled to Babylon obviously must have sucked it all in.

What it has done to religion is just shameful.

I have a very strong and steadfast belief in God, (with a capital G). However my belief in organized religion (all of them) is near zilch.

I've met many people in this day and age who are very nearly worshiping the concept of ET, and with some people, they've obviously embraced the idea of extraterrestrials as if they were God.

I'm someone who has personally interviewed at least 35 people who believed they were abducted, and those people were simply shattered by what they experienced. I can think of no other word that describes it.

I can guarantee you that whatever is "out there" flying around in our skies, there is one thing we can be certain of.

Whatever they are, in my estimation, they make very poor role models for God.



posted on Apr, 2 2014 @ 10:34 PM
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The age-old conundrum regarding God—that is the reality of evil.
Ever since man made God moral or God made man moral beget the contradiction of: If God has power over all things, omniscient, omnipotent, and omnipresent than what in the world is the meaning and utility of evil?

Philosophically or metaphysically there is much in the 13th century mystic Ibn Arabi’s idea of everything is God simply because if there is anything independent from God then that thing is a God with God—a myopic notion.

Though, the clear metaphysical sense in the idea that everything is God ( a form of pantheism) does answer the question of the conundrum of evil on one level but doesn’t dispel it completely since then God, this moral, pure being we have surmised is divine; then must be the author of evil—something that rubs many the wrong way.

This is a mystery that is dealt with somewhat in the Vedic philosophy but this is not the place to go into that here.

In any case, the judgment that alien abductions, if they are real, are evil or negative is debatable since the very act of birth appears to be traumatic in itself (screaming babies) so why does the trauma of adult abduction be any different from that natural reality of child birth and other challenges that life constantly brings on humans.

Trauma is trauma and it seems that God has chosen this methodology in this life and these aliens, whether related to God or not, are doing something similar.

The question here is motivation and intention. The doctor giving medicine to the sick often brings pain but heals.



posted on Apr, 3 2014 @ 02:54 AM
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reply to post by Riddles
 


there are many different spirits in the real world, both native and alien. there are many different factions trying to influence this world. Aliens pretend to be 'spiritual' and good. best to talk to God and ignore aliens.



posted on Apr, 3 2014 @ 10:57 AM
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reply to post by Riddles
 


Two things to keep in mind about abductions:

A. There are many people who have very positive experiences...

B. There is much evidence that the negative experiences are due to military abductions (milabs), which are 'cover-ups' for MKUltra type experiments, wherein the abductees are 'given' (thru hypnotic drugs) screen memories that show up in 'regular' hypnosis sessions as being 'aliens' doing all the traumatizing stuff...

Not saying the people you've talked to are definitely just milabs, but it's worth asking abductees whether they've ever lived near military bases or had relatives in the military...

There's a case on a thread here (can't remember which one) of a woman who's two grandfathers were at Los Alamos in the 40's, the woman and her children had frequent 'abduction' experiences which - and this is telling - totally stopped when they moved to France!

Of course, this doesn't help in the question of 'God' and 'Evil' (BTW, my 'belief' is like yours - "yes" to God, "no" to religion!)...



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